Even if you hated healers before 1.2, the game is worse without our subs

[lexiekaboom]

I'm kinda way to into PVP. I have a valor 68 shadow, valor 55 gunslinger and a valor 61 sage (healer).

 

As a healer, I would like to go on record as saying that healers are broken and ruin PVP for everyone. Win or lose, they take an enjoyable fast paced game and slow it down to a frustrating crawl with no tactics.

 

There are two times where this statement isn't true, but ONLY two; If there is only one healer, or if the healer is not being guarded.

 

You can TALK all you want about how it's so easy to kill a healer being guarded (or two healers) by x, y, and z, but where are the videos? They are no where because there are none. There is one and only one way to kill a guarded healer who doesn't suck; give up your objectives and have every single person on the team focus fire them. Even THAT won't work vs. two guarded healers.

 

In 4 months, the average times my sage dies in a match has to be around 3. And that includes the matches where I'm the only healer and unguarded (where I will die non-stop, 20+ times), balanced out by the game where I'm working with a tank and a second healer and no one dies.

 

I will heal 300k to 500k a match, where the 3 lowest DPS on the other team will be 100k each or less. If one of me is better then 3 of another class, how can there be anything close to balance?

 

Is healing broken on it's own? No. If guard broken on it's own? Again, no. Is expertise "double dip" (decreasing the healing done while lowering damage taken) broken on it's own? No. Are all these things, taken together, broken?

 

OH MY GOD YES.

Edited May 14, 2012 by lexiekaboom

[CrunkShizzle]

this game is better off without the whiney bunch that made pvp suck in the first place

 

so its actually better without your subs

[Xaearth]

this game is better off without the whiney bunch that made pvp suck in the first place

 

so its actually better without your subs

 

So... You're saying... we whined so much... about our own OP-ness... that the devs nerfed us?

My mind... it is blown.

 

[ComeAndSee]

Healers pre-1.2 were basically God-mode. They could sit there with multiple DPS beating on them and take it like a champion without a care in the world. 1v1, it was like beating a brick wall. The healer was going to win unless you were a Marauder with gear and skill. I actually ran from healers because I knew I couldn't beat them 1v1.

 

I play a Sage right now as a healer and you are squishy if you can't get away from your attackers. You have tools available to help you do that, but you can only do so much. Line of sighting, hiding, and having support is a necessity if you're facing competent players. I would say though 90%~ of the time nobody attacks me though.

 

Really, its about creating pressure. If you can actually hurt healers you make them only focus on themselves. Multiple healers makes it more difficult to do it because they can support each other. Being a single healer vs competent premade is basically a constant ride to the graveyard. 2 or 3 with tank guard =

Edited May 14, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[CrunkShizzle]

So... You're saying... we whined so much... about our own OP-ness... that the devs nerfed us?

My mind... it is blown.

 

 

whatever,my opinion is.if your playing this game for the sole purpose of pvp.your wasting your time anyway,this games pvp is garbage theres mmos that are out now that are leaps and bounds ahead of its quality

 

which is quite sad,considering what they said about the pvp team in this game being one of the best or whatever.i guess its just more hype for there overhyped game.oh well,im sure in a couple months when this game ends up being another garbage free to play mmo then maybe bioware will relize that hype doesnt make a good mmo.quality content does

 

eather way,i tend to not argue with people who have unsubbed and still post on forums.id rather just ignore them because all they ever do is complain anyway.good riddance if you left

Edited May 14, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[Xaearth]

Healers pre-1.2 were basically God-mode. They could sit there with multiple DPS beating on them and take it like a champion without a care in the world. 1v1, it was like beating a brick wall. The healer was going to win unless you were a Marauder with gear and skill. I actually ran from healers because I knew I couldn't beat them 1v1.

 

Erm... If you were dying to a healer in a 1v1...

I wouldn't really be bragging about that.

[Xerain]

Begging for healer buffs? Good sir, I have unsubbed and have pre-ordered GW2 and diablo 3.

 

I am merely sharing my thoughts on how this game went so terribly wrong in pvp. Its all my sub is good for now after all...

 

I understand that cross-healing required less coordination then DPS. Which is why i acknowledged that pugs and lower skilled players found it impossible to deal with healer heavy teams. When both sides are coordinating at a high level however, healing was not overpowered and certainly not to an extent to justify gutting the role.

 

Whats wrong with pvp is all these that think something is over powered or under powered. Yes, healers did need adjusting they were a little over the top pre 1.2. No, healers are not broken now and they're still fine so instead of them being able to keep themselves and everyone in their party up they now how to do a little more work then "Oh he's got 50% life and that guy has like 60% i'll heal them both"

Edited May 14, 2012 by Zilrota
edited rude.

[ComeAndSee]

Erm... If you were dying to a healer in a 1v1...

I wouldn't really be bragging about that.

 

No, I wasn't dying to them 1v1. I just couldn't kill them no matter what I did. Stars aligned CC (storms, 2 ccs, pull) and they would laugh at me. It reminded me of WOTLK chasing Resto Druids around for 30 minutes every damn match in 2v2s.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[MrXen]

This is an open letter to the "healers are fine" crowd:

 

I will acknowledge that the trinity model of healers being able to heal through multiple dps is frustrating for dps players (especially pick up groups.) This model is characterized by healing acting as a force multiplier and dps being simply force additive. It lends itself to pug scenarios where the matchmaker is determining the % chance of success before the match starts. Killing healers in this model requires a coordinated team capable of using interrupts and cc to lock down healers. Important to note: While healing through dps to keep themselves alive a healer has 0 dps and cannot contribute to success by an other means besides tanking damage from focus fire.

 

Despite this, games with this model still almost always have dps as the most popular role in pvp and organized teams do not stack 50% healers or anything of the sort. These games can be frustrating but are not "imbalanced" at the highest levels of play. At the lower levels of play killing healers can be nearly impossible due to lack of proficiency with interrupts and inability to utilize CC/burst to prevent cross-healing(which means two healers can stay alive forever.)

 

SWTOR chose to balance the game based on the lower levels of play. Healers can be bursted down by one DD character and here are the consequences:

 

1.) Healing without a pocket tank is ineffective and more importantly not fun.

If healing is not a force multiplier in and of itself what is its purpose? If you can only cancel out the damage of one dps attacking you (at best without a tank) then simply adding another dps instead of the healer is just as effective if not more.

 

2.) The skill requirement for dpsing in pvp has been lowered

PVP is a zerg fest where whoever does the most damage wins. There are games like GW2 where healing can be successfully de-emphasized from the ground up but SWTOR lacks the skill based mechanics to make this viable(this game is a cycle rotation til you win kind of party in pvp). To make matters worse, some dps like marauders have great survivability.

 

3.) Gutting the healers so unapologetically has led many of us to re-roll, re-spec, or unsub contributing to the zerg fest TTK scenario destroying the game's pvp today.

 

TLDR; Bioware should not have caved to forum QQ with huge sweeping changes. Healers needed a tweak not a gutting. Incremental changes tested by the live community over time could have delivered a balanced game without slapping healers in the face.

 

 

Healing is still overpowered and needs another nerf but nice try. I play a merc healer and an operative healer, and the merc is still > or = to any dps, and my operative healer is > any 2 dps (sometimes 3). Healing is ultra easy. See picture below..

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/2668/screenshot2012051110561z.jpg

I'm in a mix of recruit/battlemaster gear doing this kind of healing (this isn't even the cream of my crop, this is the last warzone I did)...my expertise is literally in the 900's (havn't even broke 1000 yet) and I out heal the highest dps (who was wearing BM/war hero). Healing is brokenly overpowered and needs to be toned down even more. If you want proof look at the picture, and you can tell my gear sucks from my hp.

 

 

 

Anyone denying healing in pvp is laughably easy and overpowered just wants their healer to be god-mode like clerics in rift etc. Since operative dps was completely wrecked I switched to healing literally 1 day prior to this picture; I had been healing (for the first time in any mmo) for less than 24 hours and I do that kind of crap, its hilariously, brokenly OP. I can almost not believe how easy it is to out heal anyone in this game, I thought healing was just a little too strong, but no, after playing one it needs the **** nerfed out of it.

Edited May 14, 2012 by MrXen

[CrunkShizzle]

nerfing operative/scoundrel healers

 

because making them worthless as a dps and the only viable option healer.wasnt enough,they gotta make them completly worthless in every area of the game

[LancelotOC]

I wish BW would release these metrics publicly so we could show people do not use interupts against healers. All DPS need to start using their abilities instead of whining endlessly on these boards that healers are OP. We already been overnerfed.

[MrXen]

nerfing operative/scoundrel healers

 

because making them worthless as a dps and the only viable option healer.wasnt enough,they gotta make them completly worthless in every area of the game

 

Worthless? No. Fix the dps trees of operative imo, they need help bad. But healing in general in this game is totally broken and out of control powerful.

[AltruisticRage]

I would argue that it is impossible to balance pvp around dedicated healer specs. It is one of the reasons I am interested in giving GW2 a shot.

 

I enjoy MMO pvp but have sadly realized that healers apparently break balance. It appears like the devs have to plan on a certain number of healers being in one spot. So, if 2-3 healers are technically balanced and can keep people alive, what is 1 supposed to do? If one can keep people alive easily, 2-3 would make a team unkillable.

 

Seems like a no-win for devs. Either way, I think that healers are too easy to kill right now. That being said, I can't wait to try out GW2 pvp without this holy-trinity nonsense that makes the game impossible to balance. (Coming from someone who has only healed for the past 2-3 years of my MMO game playing).

[MrXen]

I wish BW would release these metrics publicly so we could show people do not use interupts against healers. All DPS need to start using their abilities instead of whining endlessly on these boards that healers are OP. We already been overnerfed.

 

Shut up and quit. I just posted an image of me using recruit gear with a few BM pieces out healing war hero's and getting the biggest numbers over anyone on anything (higher than dps, other heals, etc). And I did this with less than 24 hours of experience in healing in an mmo, literally. Its retardedly easy, so don't bs me. I was a dps who thought healing was just a little bit stronger, now I'm a healer who is purposely using the overpowered class for sake of hilarity until my sub is up.

[TheNotorius]

Shut up and quit. I just posted an image of me using recruit gear with a few BM pieces out healing war hero's and getting the biggest numbers over anyone on anything (higher than dps, other heals, etc). And I did this with less than 24 hours of experience in healing in an mmo, literally. Its retardedly easy, so don't bs me. I was a dps who thought healing was just a little bit stronger, now I'm a healer who is purposely using the overpowered class for sake of hilarity until my sub is up.

 

You are probably playing against incompetents.

Even fake-casting perfectly (they waste all the interrupts), a good DPS almost outdps my heals, with 2 I have to worry about 2 interrupts and it becomes harder.

Edited May 14, 2012 by TheNotorius

[Easpeak]

No, I wasn't dying to them 1v1. I just couldn't kill them no matter what I did. Stars aligned CC (storms, 2 ccs, pull) and they would laugh at me. It reminded me of WOTLK chasing Resto Druids around for 30 minutes every damn match in 2v2s.

 

Interrupt does wonders.

[Hediori]

Shut up and quit. I just posted an image of me using recruit gear with a few BM pieces out healing war hero's and getting the biggest numbers over anyone on anything (higher than dps, other heals, etc). And I did this with less than 24 hours of experience in healing in an mmo, literally. Its retardedly easy, so don't bs me. I was a dps who thought healing was just a little bit stronger, now I'm a healer who is purposely using the overpowered class for sake of hilarity until my sub is up.

 

Doing the most healing in a warzone does not make you a better player. It does not even make you a good player. It's completely arbitrary to just go "I won on the healing done, therefore I win the argument". There are a ton of variables to consider.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Hediori

[Dencre]

Sorry its not ezmode for you. Healing is fine, l2p. Maybe gw2 will be dumbed down enough for you to play? Edited May 14, 2012 by Dencre

[Caeliux]

This is an open letter to the "healers are fine" crowd:

 

I will acknowledge that the trinity model of healers being able to heal through multiple dps is frustrating for dps players (especially pick up groups.) This model is characterized by healing acting as a force multiplier and dps being simply force additive. It lends itself to pug scenarios where the matchmaker is determining the % chance of success before the match starts. Killing healers in this model requires a coordinated team capable of using interrupts and cc to lock down healers. Important to note: While healing through dps to keep themselves alive a healer has 0 dps and cannot contribute to success by an other means besides tanking damage from focus fire.

 

Despite this, games with this model still almost always have dps as the most popular role in pvp and organized teams do not stack 50% healers or anything of the sort. These games can be frustrating but are not "imbalanced" at the highest levels of play. At the lower levels of play killing healers can be nearly impossible due to lack of proficiency with interrupts and inability to utilize CC/burst to prevent cross-healing(which means two healers can stay alive forever.)

 

SWTOR chose to balance the game based on the lower levels of play. Healers can be bursted down by one DD character and here are the consequences:

 

1.) Healing without a pocket tank is ineffective and more importantly not fun.

If healing is not a force multiplier in and of itself what is its purpose? If you can only cancel out the damage of one dps attacking you (at best without a tank) then simply adding another dps instead of the healer is just as effective if not more.

 

2.) The skill requirement for dpsing in pvp has been lowered

PVP is a zerg fest where whoever does the most damage wins. There are games like GW2 where healing can be successfully de-emphasized from the ground up but SWTOR lacks the skill based mechanics to make this viable(this game is a cycle rotation til you win kind of party in pvp). To make matters worse, some dps like marauders have great survivability.

 

3.) Gutting the healers so unapologetically has led many of us to re-roll, re-spec, or unsub contributing to the zerg fest TTK scenario destroying the game's pvp today.

 

TLDR; Bioware should not have caved to forum QQ with huge sweeping changes. Healers needed a tweak not a gutting. Incremental changes tested by the live community over time could have delivered a balanced game without slapping healers in the face.

 

All I see here is a cry for attention due to the lack of pre-made skills.

 

What do I mean?

 

Other gamers like myself in pre-mades using sorc healing are doing great, and win on a regular basis. Again I see a pile of excuses from healers like yourself.

 

Bottom line is its a organization and a L2P issue with you OP, I suggest you practice with some people and get good.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Caeliux

[kitsinni]

"adjusted" and "gutted" are very different things. If Bioware has the same attitude as you that explains the subscription freefall currently being witnessed.

 

Sorry a player worth a crap will adjust to even being gutted. Players that have to have things their way or they won't play are not worth keeping around. All they do is complain and try to bring people in to their sorrow. If the world has ended then fine leave and go play another game, the fact that you are here actively talking about SWTOR shows that you are trying to "threaten" them in to making the changes you want or you are out. That is the problem with the game already you should just leave. If you were really ready to go you would not be on these forums and would have moved on already and not posting thinly vieled cries for changes so you don't have to leave.

[MrXen]

Doing the most healing in a warzone does not make you a better player. It does not even make you a good player. It's completely arbitrary to just go "I won on the healing done, therefore I win the argument". There are a ton of variables to consider.

 

Yeah, I'm sure healing people for 435,000 health was useless to my team, especially when the best dps (using near full war hero gear as a marauder) had 428,000 damage. Meanwhile I kept everyone alive with nothing but recruit and ~3-5 battlemaster gear pieces (can be verified from my lol worthy 14,000 hp).

 

 

Yeah healing is totally "underpowered" rofl. You people defend anything if it means you can make your class ultra-overpowered and its so sad. I can out heal 2 war hero's as a recruit geared operative and slowly plink them with my auto-attack until they die, rofl. And I've been playing healer for 5 days now. (less than 24 hours in that picture)

Edited May 14, 2012 by MrXen

[lexiekaboom]

Interrupt does wonders.

 

This is the worst argument given in any healer debate.

 

Yes, your ONE interrupts does wonders vs. my 5 heals!

 

I'm using 4 spells you can interrupt and one you can't (it's instant). Best case you interupt my big heal and remove it for 4 seconds, but that still never leaves me without a way to heal, I'm just slightly less mana efferent (my HPS hasn't decreased). Worse case you interrupt my channeled heal which has already ticked at least twice before you get it. I'm never "locked out" of healing, no matter how much you interrupt me.

 

I also have two dot heals on me (unless you interrupted my heal circle, in which case I don't need the dots because you interrupted the wrong spell) so healing about 2000 a tick just standing there doing nothing.

 

As is always the case with "healers are fine' arguments, you HEAR this a lot, but you see ZERO videos of guarded healers being killed via. interrupts. Because it never happens.

Edited May 14, 2012 by lexiekaboom

[Xaearth]

Yeah, I'm sure healing people for 435,000 health was useless to my team, especially when the best dps (using near full war hero gear as a marauder) had 428,000 damage. Meanwhile I kept everyone alive with nothing but recruit and ~3-5 battlemaster gear pieces (can be verified from my lol worthy 14,000 hp).

 

 

Yeah healing is totally "underpowered" rofl. You people defend anything if it means you can make your class ultra-overpowered and its so sad. I can out heal 2 war hero's as a recruit geared operative and slowly plink them with my auto-attack until they die, rofl. And I've been playing healer for 5 days now. (less than 24 hours in that picture)

 

You really aren't inspiring any votes of confidence with replies like these.

But that's okay, HoTs are srz bznz.

[Xaearth]

This is the worst argument given in any healer debate.

 

Yes, your ONE interrupts does wonders vs. my 5 heals!

...

As is always the case with "healers are fine' arguments, you HEAR this a lot, but you see ZERO videos of guarded healers being killed via. interrupts. Because it never happens.

 

Irony.

The healer considered most "Overpowered" at the moment has 2 abilities (and the free lol-channel that only bads interrupt) that can be interrupted. One of those is a highly inefficient burst heal that costs a TA/UH. The other is our most efficient heal and generates a TA/UH.

 

Interrupt the right one, and don't suck bad enough that you get owned by Surgical Probe spam at <30% health, and that Op/Scoundrel healer is done.

 

Yep, the problem most definitely isn't bad DPS players.

 

PS: You don't see videos of a guarded healer being killed by interrupts because the people that defend the "Healers are OP and interrupts have nothing to do with it" crowd inevitably spout "Nu-uh, that's 2 DPS!" completely ignoring the fact that it's kinda silly to assume a single DPS should win 1v2 against a healer-tank combo.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Xaearth

[LancelotOC]

Yeah, I'm sure healing people for 435,000 health was useless to my team, especially when the best dps (using near full war hero gear as a marauder) had 428,000 damage. Meanwhile I kept everyone alive with nothing but recruit and ~3-5 battlemaster gear pieces (can be verified from my lol worthy 14,000 hp).

 

 

Yeah healing is totally "underpowered" rofl. You people defend anything if it means you can make your class ultra-overpowered and its so sad. I can out heal 2 war hero's as a recruit geared operative and slowly plink them with my auto-attack until they die, rofl. And I've been playing healer for 5 days now. (less than 24 hours in that picture)

 

Which healer class are you playing.. do you queue solo.. which server do you play on? Thanks.

 

Also what is this auto-attack you speak of?