BW should start manual server transfers

[Jederix]

The guy posts a well reasoned non troll part and you troll him.

 

Someone disagreeing with you is not trolling. Just in case you were not aware (which I'm sure you are, but it's more fun to play ignorant, I'm guessing).

[NDiggy]

Someone disagreeing with you is not trolling. Just in case you were not aware (which I'm sure you are, but it's more fun to play ignorant, I'm guessing).

 

The post in question wasn't someone disagreeing, it was just someone being insulting. That is a troll post. He wasn't interested in discussion, only in throwing around insults. If you wish to discuss the OP then by all means do so, otherwise please refrain from posting and derailing the discussion.

[Baneberry]

Well then allow me to refresh your memory. Search "server queues" for some fantastic history of how this population beat BW senseless to add more servers:

 

This system is way better then server queues!

Server queues

EGA and insane server queues

Unacceptable Server Queue's

4 Days to Official Launch - Server Queues

Make server queues faction specific

Evasion of server queues (sp)

Fact: LONG SERVER QUEUES = BONUS WAVES WHINERS

Server Queues - Hang in there, there is still time.

Piling on: Server Queues

Server queues are broken

EVERY SINGLE Europe server has 2 hour queues

Server Queues - A semi-detailed guild to why they are as is currently.

 

and my personal favorite thread entitled:

 

This Won't Last Long, If Server Queues Aren't Fixed

 

 

I could keep going of course... an interesting side note is that all of the links I just provided pre-date the actual launch of the game.

 

MMO gamers are the single most fickle demographic on the internet.

 

And in the end bioware has nobody to blame but them self. People knew that the servers would level off eventualy, but they caved into the pressure and it has come back to bite them in the ***.

 

They should have never opened more servers and they should have put the population in its place. when developers listen to the fan base, we all suffer.

 

they now have the chance to redeem them self. merge server back to the original number and provide us with a lively place to play, this would be a huge step in the right direction.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Baneberry

[Cerion]

We KNOW they can do manual transfers. They have this ability, they're just not using it. So yes, they could start fixing the "car", they're just not doing it.

 

Of course we know they can do it, but that says nothing as to how EASY it is, which that bad car analogy very blatantly states.

[mokkh]

And in the end bioware has nobody to blame but them self. People knew that the servers would level off eventualy, but they caved into the pressure and it has come back to bite them in the ***.

 

They should have never opened more servers and they should have put the population in its place. when developers listen to the fan base, we all suffer.

 

Of course the irony is that this is and many other threads are direct reflections of the fan base telling the developers what to do. Some people call it feedback, sometimes it actually is. If you want, search the keywords "merge servers", I won't bother putting up more links but the outcome is identical in tone and opposite in nature to what the previous ones complaining about queues conatined.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting that they do need to transfer those people who want it as the OP suggested.

 

Just that it is impossible to predetermine what feedback to listen to and what to ignore. Especially if this is the first time you've released an MMO and the learning curve is decidedly steep with a fickle and short tempered populace calling the shots.

 

I have actual sympathy for the people behind this and other MMOs. Anytime I think I have it bad I can come here and see a stream of non-stop anonymous armchair developers and financial planners; all ready to tell BW what to do, as well as how and when to do it. System implementation doesn't turn on a dime or instantaneously reverse course, that's just how it works and the developers are in a bad way because of it.

Edited May 14, 2012 by mokkh

[AeSaar]

They cant afford to pay for this type of system

 

watch there stock report 48% loss ROFL

 

https://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:EA#

 

this is incredible how much there stock has dropped in the last 3 month or even better yet check out the drop from the time swtor was released.

No money = no swtor

 

Honestly, would you buy EA stock?

 

I know I wouldn't. It is obvious to everyone that has eyes that TOR is killing EA, but it is as much EA's corporate culture as it is Bioware's failings. Every non-TOR EA product shows the same kind of banal contempt towards its consumers as the poor TOR customer service shows here. EA sees a cash cow in micro-transactions, not solving issues for customers they have already gotten money out of. Customer service is not a priority; generating profit is. Thus when EA addresses the issues it caused with transfers in the form of more micro-transactions, TOR will die.

 

With the stock slide, it would be worth investing in, if they purged out the people from Bioware responsible for the TOR server situation and the rest of the EA crew who live and die by micro-transactions. Absent that, I see nothing but a continuation of current trend and that trend is down.

Edited May 14, 2012 by AeSaar

[NDiggy]

Of course the irony is that this is and many other threads are direct reflections of the fan base telling the developers what to do. Some people call it feedback, sometimes it actually is.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting that they do need to transfer those people who want it as the OP suggested.

 

Just that it is impossible to predetermine what feedback to listen to and what to ignore. Especially if this is the first time you've released an MMO and the learning curve is decidedly steep with a fickle and short tempered populace calling the shots.

 

I have actual sympathy for the people behind this and other MMOs. Anytime I think I have it bad I can come here and see a stream of non-stop anonymous armchair developers and financial planners; all ready to tell BW what to do, as well as how and when to do it. System implementation doesn't turn on a dime or instantaneously reverse course, that's just how it works and the developers are in a bad way because of it.

 

Have solid preparation, a good plan and knowledge of the history of other MMOs is how you learn what to listen to and what to disregard. Sometimes the forums can be an indicator of where there is smoke, there is fire, and will help developers focus and diagnose a problem they may have been unaware of (you see this a lot in class balance threads). Sometimes it seems as if BW lacked preparation and ignored and repeated problems that cropped up in other contemporary MMOs. Opening too many servers seems to be one of those instances where they weren't prepared, ignored what other MMOs had done, and then panicked and opened too many servers during the launch window.

[NDiggy]

Honestly, would you buy EA stock?

 

I know I wouldn't. It is obvious to everyone that has eyes that TOR is killing EA, but it is as much EA's corporate culture as it is Bioware's failings. Every non-TOR EA product shows the same kind of banal contempt towards its consumers as the poor TOR customer service shows here. EA sees a cash cow in micro-transactions, not solving issues for customers they have already gotten money out of. Customer service is not a priority; generating profit is. Thus when EA addresses the issues it caused with transfers in the form of more micro-transactions, TOR will die.

 

With the stock slide, it would be worth investing in, if they purged out the people from Bioware responsible for the TOR server situation and the rest of the EA crew who live and die by micro-transactions. Absent that, I see nothing but a continuation of current trend and that trend is down.

 

To be fair its EA killing EA, not TOR. Although it was ridiculous that people voted EA the worst company in the world in light of the truly horrible things being done by other companies, it should have been a wake up call for EA to change the way they operate. The message seems to have gone unheeded.

[AeSaar]

To be fair its EA killing EA, not TOR. Although it was ridiculous that people voted EA the worst company in the world in light of the truly horrible things being done by other companies, it should have been a wake up call for EA to change the way they operate. The message seems to have gone unheeded.

 

Either way the alarm bells are ringing for the players. Anyone familiar with other titles under both Bioware and EA must feel a bit of panic somewhere in the bad of their minds. Players across many titles are for whatever reason getting the felling that EA does not care much for its consumer base. Think about all of the recent maneuvers that amount to nothing more than cash grabs. Even the most loyal fans see greed born rot hidden somewhere beneath the protective layers of doublethink and denial.

 

Even, the powerhouse Madden and Battlefield have received criticism that seems more than fair. Removing free servers to force micro-transactions and offering little between yearly editions but a roster update does not endear you to your fans.

 

Laziness Weakens. Greed Kills.

You have heard of the Video Game Bust of 1983, yes?

 

Enough angry fans will seriously tank profits and with it the company.

 

Who wants to throw money at a sinking ship? NOBODY!

[mokkh]

Have solid preparation, a good plan and knowledge of the history of other MMOs is how you learn what to listen to and what to disregard. Sometimes the forums can be an indicator of where there is smoke, there is fire, and will help developers focus and diagnose a problem they may have been unaware of (you see this a lot in class balance threads). Sometimes it seems as if BW lacked preparation and ignored and repeated problems that cropped up in other contemporary MMOs. Opening too many servers seems to be one of those instances where they weren't prepared, ignored what other MMOs had done, and then panicked and opened too many servers during the launch window.

 

"Panicked" because people were browbeating them and threatening to leave before the launch ever happened, as the threads I linked to plainly attest. Is it not better to accommodate everyone you possibly can for launch instead of turning people away? I want to see your logic here, because any business plan that involves turning away actual or potential customers is a poor one in my experience. You mentioned problems that cropped up in other MMOs, I remember during a big weekend for a game (I no longer play and refuse to go back to) called "Rift" that a large percentage of people who tried to log in got turned away; for the entire weekend. Maybe they looked at that as a lesson to make the number of servers larger for launch and just overestimated the "largeness" they would actually need to end up with. This stuff isn't science.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. Has their performance been absolutely perfect thus far? Not by a long shot, but it wasn't the dismal failure a vocal portion of forum goers seem intent to make it out to be.

 

Populations fluctuate, and they obviously (IMO) focused on attempting to retain instead of planning for damage control. I'm sure they are well aware of the "should haves" at this point, but its impossible for you or anyone else not involved to decide what they may or may not have ignored; that's a really unfair characterization on any terms. They have more invested in this game than I ever would or could, if it tanks then I just unsub and go about my business; they end up out of a job with a black mark on their resume.

 

A modicum of empathy might be helpful to aid your understanding of my point.

Edited May 14, 2012 by mokkh

[NDiggy]

"Panicked" because people were browbeating them and threatening to leave before the launch ever happened, as the threads I linked to plainly attest. Is it not better to accommodate everyone you possibly can for launch instead of turning people away? I want to see your logic here, because any business plan that involves turning away actual or potential customers is a poor one in my experience. You mentioned problems that cropped up in other MMOs, I remember during a big weekend for a game (I no longer play and refuse to go back to) called "Rift" that a large percentage of people who tried to log in got turned away; for the entire weekend. Maybe they looked at that as a lesson to make the number of servers larger for launch and just overestimated the "largeness" they would actually need to end up with. This stuff isn't science.

 

Actually, it largely is a science. A science built on statistics and business models within the industry. Keep in mind too that server populations were capped far lower at launch as well helping to create many of these queues. Its one thing to have a 15 minute queue and it is quite another to never be able to log in (i.e. turned away). As you say, the long term health of the game should not have been sacrificed to meet short term demands of players. That is the logic behind what myself and others have said.

 

Hindsight is always 20/20. Has their performance been absolutely perfect thus far? Not by a long shot, but it wasn't the dismal failure a vocal portion of forum goers seem intent to make it out to be.

 

I certainly agree that the launch was the best I've seen from an MMO.

 

Populations fluctuate, and they obviously (IMO) focused on attempting to retain instead of planning for damage control. I'm sure they are well aware of the "should haves" at this point, but its impossible for you or anyone else not involved to decide what they may or may not have ignored; that's a really unfair characterization on any terms. They have more invested in this game than I ever would or could, if it tanks then I just unsub and go about my business; they end up out of a job with a black mark on their resume.

 

A modicum of empathy might be helpful to aid your understanding of my point.

 

At this point it is fairly easy to see where the Dev team priorities were and what they have ignored. It doesn't seem unfair to make that judgement or characterization at this point and honestly that is my right as a consumer.

 

Also, to be fair it seems like a lot of "failed developers" seem to just go from studio to studio, so if the game tanks it isn't necessarily a black mark of death on their resume. Many of the devs in SWTOR came from such gems as Age of Conan and Warhammer Online.

 

Now, back to the topic at hand, do you agree or not that BW should start targeting 3-4 low pop servers per week for manual transfers to designated servers until they are able to go live with their automated transfer process.

[Tuscad]

You have heard of the Video Game Bust of 1983, yes?

 

Damn it E.T. You should have stayed home.

[bigbramble]

Back to the original topic....

 

I am a massive fan of this game. I REALLY want to see it succeed, you cannot hide it though server numbers are dropping and on my server we are starting to struggle to get a group for a HM FP, the place seems empty and it is absolutely strangling this game.

 

BW you really have got to listen right now, we need server transfers/mergers like yesterday. I subscribed to this game for 6 months, I am in it for the long haul but even I have started looking at other games again.... ..a busier server would fix all that. I personally think this is the best MMO out there right now with the biggest potential but you really have to start listening to people and get those server transfers going right now.

[mokkh]

Actually, it largely is a science. A science built on statistics and business models within the industry. Keep in mind too that server populations were capped far lower at launch as well helping to create many of these queues. Its one thing to have a 15 minute queue and it is quite another to never be able to log in (i.e. turned away). As you say, the long term health of the game should not have been sacrificed to meet short term demands of players. That is the logic behind what myself and others have said.

 

 

 

I certainly agree that the launch was the best I've seen from an MMO.

 

 

 

At this point it is fairly easy to see where the Dev team priorities were and what they have ignored. It doesn't seem unfair to make that judgement or characterization at this point and honestly that is my right as a consumer.

 

Also, to be fair it seems like a lot of "failed developers" seem to just go from studio to studio, so if the game tanks it isn't necessarily a black mark of death on their resume. Many of the devs in SWTOR came from such gems as Age of Conan and Warhammer Online.

 

Now, back to the topic at hand, do you agree or not that BW should start targeting 3-4 low pop servers per week for manual transfers to designated servers until they are able to go live with their automated transfer process.

 

 

The queues were hours long, people were complaining about getting disconnected repeatedly and being thrown back in the queue. You didn't read any of those queue complaint threads for context, did you?

 

I am a scientist, science is based off of repeated observables. Impossible in this case since you only get to observe one launch and trying to superimpose the launch of other titles' onto this one would be folly at best. Moreover, projections of long term player interest (even statistically predicted models) are not ironclad by any stretch of the imagination. Random variables like competitor's releases as well as your market demographic's ability and/or desire (neither are quantifiable) to play one, both, or several games at once cannot be accounted for... ever. They are on record as saying that they had no idea the launch would be as big as it was; they were caught off guard by their own admission. The subsequent response (or over-response as you suggest) would seem to corroborate that.

 

In reference to your "back on topic remark" I stated that very plainly earlier, but since you must have missed it:

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting that they do need to transfer those people who want it as the OP suggested.

 

All of my responses have been on topic, especially when taken in the perspective of the larger mosaic of threads and player "feedback" directing BW to several courses of action that have directly (and indirectly) contradicted each other.

Edited May 14, 2012 by mokkh

[Andryah]

Honestly, would you buy EA stock?

 

I know I wouldn't. It is obvious to everyone that has eyes that TOR is killing EA, but it is as much EA's corporate culture as it is Bioware's failings. Every non-TOR EA product shows the same kind of banal contempt towards its consumers as the poor TOR customer service shows here. EA sees a cash cow in micro-transactions, not solving issues for customers they have already gotten money out of. Customer service is not a priority; generating profit is. Thus when EA addresses the issues it caused with transfers in the form of more micro-transactions, TOR will die.

 

With the stock slide, it would be worth investing in, if they purged out the people from Bioware responsible for the TOR server situation and the rest of the EA crew who live and die by micro-transactions. Absent that, I see nothing but a continuation of current trend and that trend is down.

 

Clueless IMO. AND way off topic.

 

Total contribution from SWTOR to EA financial is minor. It has no material impact on EA if it does really well, or if it does really bad. MMOs, as a whole, are a small fraction of EA world wide business.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Andryah

[courtsdad]

My point is that they are working on transfers and will offer them when they are ready. Making a billion of these threads will not make transfers any sooner.

 

So, again, my suggestion is to find something else to do instead of wasting time making threads about transfers. They will happen when they happen no matter how much guys cry and scream like 5 year old children.

 

 

 

People are finding something else to do at an alarming rate. Kudos for the great idea.

 

They will never outdo Smedleys mismanagement of the easiest IP to make a mint off of but they sure are trying.

[NDiggy]

People are finding something else to do at an alarming rate. Kudos for the great idea.

 

They will never outdo Smedleys mismanagement of the easiest IP to make a mint off of but they sure are trying.

 

Thanks for the compliment. I'm hoping maybe this just didn't occur to them and they'll pick up on the idea.

[NDiggy]

BW, start doing this. Stem the tide of lost subs.

[Akilus]

Why are people leaving already, just because a few delays? Come on guys the game just recently came out a few months a go.