1.2 PvP Patch is a Disaster - How to fix it

[Arayla]

Healing is fine, before you could not only keep yourself alive while people bashed on you and you sat in the one spot not moving, but keep someone else alive at the same time, that was stupid. Now, tanks actually need to protect healers a little, I've still seen plenty of games dominated by a few healers pulling off MASSIVE healing numbers. Any healer that left the game was simply a trash player missing their godmode healing.

 

 

The notion of god mode healing is laughable, if a team had that much healing and tanks pre 1.2 they certainly didn't have enough dps to kill or capture anything. It only took a player who knew how to apply interrupts to the proper skills to kill healers in a one vs one situation , now you don't even need to bother. The reality of post 1.2 is that even with guard and taunts healers are killed in seconds in warhero on warhero matches, anyone can kill healers now. Before this patch killing healers was more then possible it was just unforgiving if dps made mistakes and missed their interrupts because healers had the tools to quickly recover from burst, now that those tools are gone ttk has shortened massively.

[fungihoujo]

The notion of god mode healing is laughable, if a team had that much healing and tanks pre 1.2 they certainly didn't have enough dps to kill or capture anything. It only took a player who knew how to apply interrupts to the proper skills to kill healers in a one vs one situation , now you don't even need to bother. The reality of post 1.2 is that even with guard and taunts healers are killed in seconds in warhero on warhero matches, anyone can kill healers now. Before this patch killing healers was more then possible it was just unforgiving if dps made mistakes and missed their interrupts because healers had the tools to quickly recover from burst, now that those tools are gone ttk has shortened massively.

 

This- the only reason healers seemed unkillable back then is that 95% of dps think they should only have to spam damaging abilities and ignore their CC/interrupts- now, they can so of course DPS think it's fine and dandy.

 

Most dps classes can keep a healer locked down until they kill them- or are able to deal 2-3 times as much damage as they can heal even without needing to use CC... so bads can kill healers now, and for good players healers are simply a cakewalk.

[Herboss]

Pre 1.2 I came across a few healers I watched out heal 3v1, three of us bashing on them and they just healed through it all, this is us throwing off CC's and an interrupt, that was a good player playing with OP heals, it is just that now the average to bad players out there now appear VERY BAD. I still see healers out heal quite a bit of damage, now it's just not as ridiculous. If I Guard and focus on protecting a healer they generally are extremely hard to kill for the opposition, maybe you're playing with bad tanks as well.

[Ballzz]

Pre 1.2 I came across a few healers I watched out heal 3v1, three of us bashing on them and they just healed through it all, this is us throwing off CC's and an interrupt, that was a good player playing with OP heals, it is just that now the average to bad players out there now appear VERY BAD. I still see healers out heal quite a bit of damage, now it's just not as ridiculous. If I Guard and focus on protecting a healer they generally are extremely hard to kill for the opposition, maybe you're playing with bad tanks as well.

 

If 3 of you couldn't kill a single healer pre-1.2 you were doing something wrong. In any event, I don't think anyone is saying healing didn't need a tweak..and the healing bug some were exploiting needed to be fixed but it needed a TWEAK not a massive nerf while simultaneously buffing DPS. More frequent and incremental class changes are what's needed not massive changes all at once.

[Lugh]

I am part of the "pvp community" they are supposed to "listen to "as well, I almost completely disagree with what you wrote.

 

What we need is more expertise on pvp gear, especially on recruit gear (infact bm and recruit gear should have the same expertise budget, recruit has lesser stat they do not need to be punished twice).

 

Healers are fine.

 

The gap between optimized wh and optimized bm gear is huge, bm gear as it comes of the shelf is bad and lacks certain mods. Gear gaps need to be reduced between pvp sets.

 

 

Pre 1.2 pvp was dominated by pve gear that was not acceptable, pre 1.2 was way less balanced than 1.2.

 

Listen to this...

 

You sir must be daft. What we need is NO EXPERTISE whatsoever. Then you can see who has more skill and isn't being propped up by overinflated gear.

[fellboy]

I am a smuggler healer and am fine with most of the changes to pvp and pvp rewards(now that dailys require playing 6 matches instead of winning 3). Battlemaster gear is relatively easy to aquire and will make you competitive if you are smart and resourseful.I do admit that Any healer can get focused down really quickly by a group working together but that can be said by any class. The real problems that pvp had was that it took weeks of banging your head against the wall trying to get centurian and champion gear while losing over and over before you could come close to competing.Now you can buy recruit gear and within a few days will have a decent amount of battlemaster gear. The other big problem was the gear difference between imp and pubs and the new daily requirement helps to at least make it easier for republic players to earn their comms . In my opinion bioware is on the right track with the latest changes they have made.

[Lugh]

Pre 1.2 I came across a few healers I watched out heal 3v1, three of us bashing on them and they just healed through it all, this is us throwing off CC's and an interrupt, that was a good player playing with OP heals, it is just that now the average to bad players out there now appear VERY BAD. I still see healers out heal quite a bit of damage, now it's just not as ridiculous. If I Guard and focus on protecting a healer they generally are extremely hard to kill for the opposition, maybe you're playing with bad tanks as well.

 

I guarantee that you missed the other healer that was helping keep him alive or the shadow/assassin tank that had him guarded.

[Herboss]

You sir must be daft. What we need is NO EXPERTISE whatsoever. Then you can see who has more skill and isn't being propped up by overinflated gear.

Expertise is almost a none issue as it takes barely a week to get full BM now and the WH gear is such a minor boost. I think it's perfect the way it is, especially now that the daily isn't insanely frustrating if you get ****** teams constantly as you don't HAVE to win now.

 

PVE gear isn't better for PVP now - GOOD

Full BM gear takes around a week to get - GOOD

WH gear is only a slight boost over BM gear keeping the playing field reasonably even - GOOD

Dailies fixed so you don't HAVE to win now, I now don't RAGE if I get a bad team - GOOD

Healers can't heal themselves AND others while getting bashed on by multiple people - GOOD

 

Don't know how anyone could have a problem with this setup now. Now that this is all sorted there's really only a bit a class balancing to be done, PVP is easily far more enjoyable than it's ever been IMO.

 

I guarantee that you missed the other healer that was helping keep him alive or the shadow/assassin tank that had him guarded.

Nope there was definitely no one else around, I can't say they weren't exploiting though...

[Ballzz]

Expertise is almost a none issue as it takes barely a week to get full BM now and the WH gear is such a minor boost. I think it's perfect the way it is, especially now that the daily isn't insanely frustrating if you get ****** teams constantly as you don't HAVE to win now.

 

PVE gear isn't better for PVP now - GOOD

Full BM gear takes around a week to get - GOOD

WH gear is only a slight boost over BM gear keeping the playing field reasonably even - GOOD

Dailies fixed so you don't HAVE to win now, I now don't RAGE if I get a bad team - GOOD

Healers can't heal themselves AND others while getting bashed on by multiple people - GOOD

 

Don't know how anyone could have a problem with this setup now. Now that this is all sorted there's really only a bit a class balancing to be done, PVP is easily far more enjoyable than it's ever been IMO.

 

Nope there was definitely no one else around, I can't say they weren't exploiting though...

 

You forgot one..

 

****** DPS who didn't have the skill to interrupt healers now can faceroll the keyboard to kill healers - GOOD

[Herboss]

You forgot one..

 

****** DPS who didn't have the skill to interrupt healers now can faceroll the keyboard to kill healers - GOOD

Maybe I just come up against super good healers all the time but I mix my interrupts in with my CC's for maximum effect and most healers still out heal me no worries. It's not like interrupting a healing makes piss all difference anyway as when you interrupt one heal they just use another of the heals they have, unless they are the kind of dud that just sit there trying to spam that same heal that just got interrupted... that's just a BAD player. Edited May 14, 2012 by Herboss

[noladev]

I lol @ anyone saying "healers are fine". Try healing without a pocket guard buddy and you will have the most miserable gaming experience imaginable. I unsubbed over it.

[Arayla]

Maybe I just come up against super good healers all the time but I mix my interrupts in with my CC's for maximum effect and most healers still out heal me no worries. It's not like interrupting a healing makes piss all difference anyway as when you interrupt one heal they just use another of the heals they have, unless they are the kind of dud that just sit there trying to spam that same heal that just got interrupted... that's just a BAD player.

 

Or your not interrupting the right heals and fall for fake casts, healers can't keep up with one player on them let alone multiples if they are equably geared. You interrupt the right heal they won't be able to keep up, unless your being out healed by a 2k heal on a 1.5 second cast, in which case you have either a gear problem or a rotation problem.

[Ballzz]

Maybe I just come up against super good healers all the time but I mix my interrupts in with my CC's for maximum effect and most healers still out heal me no worries. It's not like interrupting a healing makes piss all difference anyway as when you interrupt one heal they just use another of the heals they have, unless they are the kind of dud that just sit there trying to spam that same heal that just got interrupted... that's just a BAD player.

 

Sorry but you are just wrong. There are a limited number of heals to choose from and some are not worth interrupting (some are instant so can't be interrupted but those aren't big enough heals). If you are just "mixing interrupts in" you are likely not interrupting the right abilities. The heals with any real effect (speaking for sage here) have a long cast time or are channeled. Sages are very squishy now so with 1-2 interrupts of the correct abilities + the associated global cooldown time anyone can easily kill a healer before they can get off any substantial heals...except you apparently.

[Tathais]

I made it to page 5... which is pretty good considering.

 

ITT - Healers upset 'cause they die in 5 seconds, DPS saying this is fine and l2p. Welcome to the world of bias... lol.

 

OP, you're absolutely right. PvP is a mess, people die too quickly and healing is irrelevant. People need to live longer in PvP, not shorter. High health pools relative to the amount of both damage and healing is the way to go. People should have time to react and play, not get gibbed in seconds. Even to the folks saying 3 DPS doing focus should be able to explode people... why!? What's the fun in that? There's no counter to that kind of gameplay. It's just pick a target, assist, mash buttons.

 

People need to live longer so that players have a chance to use their abilities in order to counter it. Right now it's stun, die.

 

As the OP said, small wonder people are leaving in droves. I gave this game one more renew cycle (monthly) for my PvP friends but if there's no news by then, I'm moving on as well.

[Herboss]

So now you can't just stand in the middle of all the AoE's while healing everything, learn to reposition so you're not able to be attacked by everyone, you don't have to be right next to someone to heal, make your opposition come to the backlines to get you. Make sure you have someone watching your back/guarding you, now team work is required to win.

 

You are a healer you will get focused by smart players and you should die quickly if you are focused and your team is stupid and wont protect you, you were probably focused before you were nerfed you just didn't notice...

 

I've been pugging exclusively for the last week and I constantly see guys healing for 300K+, but then at the same time you've got guys not even breaking 50k heals, why? These are the guys quiting I'd imagine.

[Lulzbot]

K, let's see you healing with 3 decent DPS on you. FRAPS is easy to use- you show you can outheal three good players on you, and I'll admit healing's fine, stop posting on the forums, and learn to be as good as you at healing.

 

 

Or, don't because you're full of it and can't do that and likely only have a level 50 marauder and love the easy kills 1.2 gave you.

 

Uploading a video to youtube now bro. A Shadow and I kill six people by ourselves bro.

[Metalmac]

So now you can't just stand in the middle of all the AoE's while healing everything, learn to reposition so you're not able to be attacked by everyone, you don't have to be right next to someone to heal, make your opposition come to the backlines to get you. Make sure you have someone watching your back/guarding you, now team work is required to win.

 

You are a healer you will get focused by smart players and you should die quickly if you are focused and your team is stupid and wont protect you, you were probably focused before you were nerfed you just didn't notice...

 

I've been pugging exclusively for the last week and I constantly see guys healing for 300K+, but then at the same time you've got guys not even breaking 50k heals, why? These are the guys quiting I'd imagine.

 

Duh it is called GEAR and those with the better gear live and heal longer.

You miss the point of the post that was 1.2 patch was a mistake that made it worse not better for PVP.

 

A fresh 50 attempting to heal is just dead in 5 seconds over and over and over....

 

This is the problem with patch 1.2 and people are ignoring this fact.

[Herboss]

Duh it is called GEAR and those with the better gear live and heal longer.

You miss the point of the post that was 1.2 patch was a mistake that made it worse not better for PVP.

 

A fresh 50 attempting to heal is just dead in 5 seconds over and over and over....

 

This is the problem with patch 1.2 and people are ignoring this fact.

K, and you're ignoring a point that's been made 5 times in the last two pages that it takes barely a week to get full BM gear, that's just doing a few extra WZ's on top of your dailies, not playing 24/7. It's stupid to think you should be able to jump straight into PVP as soon as you hit 50 and dominate, you just gotta do your time for a week, and it's not like they are the only fresh 50 starting PVP.

[Samaul]

K, and you're ignoring a point that's been made 5 times in the last two pages that it takes barely a week to get full BM gear, that's just doing a few extra WZ's on top of your dailies, not playing 24/7. It's stupid to think you should be able to jump straight into PVP as soon as you hit 50 and dominate, you just gotta do your time for a week, and it's not like they are the only fresh 50 starting PVP.

 

This statement is false. As a healer, even in full recruit gear, I spend more time spawning than playing my character. Add to that the fact that the republic almost never wins. There is no way that I can get commendations fast enough to get full BM in one week. More like one month.

 

Even if I could get BM in one week, the gaming experience while doing so is so unpleasant that I just gave up and stopped queueing.

 

Dying in 2-3 GCDs just isnt fun.

[Samaul]

I lol @ anyone saying "healers are fine". Try healing without a pocket guard buddy and you will have the most miserable gaming experience imaginable. I unsubbed over it.

 

This pretty much sums it up. I will say it again, "the most miserable gaming experience imaginable."

[Dmasterr]

This statement is false. As a healer, even in full recruit gear, I spend more time spawning than playing my character. Add to that the fact that the republic almost never wins. There is no way that I can get commendations fast enough to get full BM in one week. More like one month.

 

Even if I could get BM in one week, the gaming experience while doing so is so unpleasant that I just gave up and stopped queueing.

 

Dying in 2-3 GCDs just isnt fun.

 

If you are playing 1h /day imagine how long will THAT take.

 

/sarcasm

 

I got full BM from 0 bm items, in 2 days. (on my alts)

Edited May 14, 2012 by Dmasterr

[Samaul]

If you are playing 1h /day imagine how long will THAT take.

 

/sarcasm

 

I got full BM from 0 bm items, in 2 days. (on my alts)

 

I dont believe you.

[TipsyDrow]

No, the fundamental problem is that you are 2 Tiers of gear lower and whining on the forum. I am sorry the game is not balanced around recruit gear, but the problem is you and not the game.

 

Whats next, whining that you can not compete in quest gear? i mean some ppl are cba even to buy recruit gear. Where does it stop?

 

I don't normally agree with your posts., but by god your dead on correct about the gear. In recruit gear my sage, no matter what spec, guarded or not died so fast it was almost funny. She now has full BM gear and it really didn't take that long to get. I am also seer/tele hybrid specced. It's a great build for pvp healing. If guarded by a full time tank and that tank uses taunts and such I have decent survability. Ungaurded well...meh. But any cloth wearer without a guard that gets a melee in her face is gonna have an issue, they're supposed to have an issue with a melee in her face. Do I like the way pvp is now? Not really. I like a slightly slower paced pvp game but I don't have that atm so i deal with it. Oh, on my assault vanguard its great...just sayin....

[Pyrocan]

healers are fine !

[Samaul]

The key issue for BioWares SWTOR business model at this time is retention of new players. SWTOR continues to attract a lot of new players. When fresh 50s buy a full set of recruit gear and queue up for warzones and repeatedly die in 2-3 GCDs, most of them stop queueing. Many new players just quit the game after such a "miserable" gaming experience.

 

The issues I listed in my OP affect fresh 50s the most. If BioWare wants pvp server populations to recover, they must provide a smoother transition to end game pvp for new players.