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S.A.G.E = Setting A Good Example?


Sccorpion

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Well I feel sorry for you if you think pre-50 doesn't matter. It's a bracket that isn't plagued by huge gear differences (although level difference CAN be a problem) and a lot of people play pre-50.

 

I have to agree though, he is right. What you experience in pre-50 warzones is completely trivial, since it all changes with 50. Level your Sage a bit more, get a bit of gear and then report back plesae, I'm sure you will agree with most of us here. You will get smacked around like crazy and your self healing will be a joke.

 

Look alone at how much more damage benefits from Expertise whereas healing doesn't as much. And then think about the fact that you are starting out with a 30% debuff to healing in the first place. So where DPS get their PVP gear and start increasing their damage immediately you're fighting in reducing the effect of that debuff. Mind you, your heals will never get any stronger.

 

I'd love to see trauma introduced for DPS and taken away from healing. Just for a while and just so that people understand how frustrating it is when your abilities suddenly start hitting as if you were level 35 again.

Edited by syntxerr
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Well I feel sorry for you if you think pre-50 doesn't matter. It's a bracket that isn't plagued by huge gear differences (although level difference CAN be a problem) and a lot of people play pre-50.
It's not the gear *difference* that matters at 50, it's the gear scaling of other DPS classes. That shield is now tissue paper.

 

If you can kite really well, Sage DPS still gives you all the tools for that at 50, but it's much rougher than in the low bracket.

Edited by flem
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You do realize that both sides have the exact same class, right? The Sorc is actually BETTER for dps since its animations don't cause a couple of seconds delay from hitting instant-cast spells to when it actually damages the target (lightning = instant, project for sage = few second animation before hit) as well as others.

 

No, they do the same damage whise. at least for the Shadow/sin

both toons same level, talent, and combat time. No weapon, no gear.

Jedi Shadow Level 18

%	Hits	Action	Total Damage	Average DPS	Avg Hit	Min Hit	Max Hit	Crits	Crit %	Miss %
62.41%	32	Crushed	2082	31.05	65.06	63	96	2	6.25%	0%
5.1%	10	Combat Technique	170	2.54	17	17	17	0	0%	0%
32.49%	7	Project	1084	16.16	154.86	149	169	0	0%	0%

Sith Assassin

%	Hits	Action	Total Damage	Average DPS	Avg Hit	Min Hit	Max Hit	Crits	Crit %	Miss %
58.03%	32	Shocked	2082	31.64	65.06	63	96	2	6.25%	0%
5.71%	11	Dark Charge	205	3.12	18.64	17	26	2	18.18%	0%
36.26%	7	Shock	1301	19.77	185.86	148	250	2	28.57%	0%

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this post really makes me laugh.. especially after arguing all day in another post yesterday trying to prove sorcs are still a viable DPS class... so thanks for the giggles buddy..

 

i especially like this part:

 

Telekinesis throw should be stationary and the slow it puts on people should have a much smaller range.

 

hahaha.... it's channeled... how are you not stationary if channeling?!?!?

 

and i soooo wish my bubble absorbed 5-9k damage like he says it does... that would be great.. cause as it stand right now, it pops if you fart at it..

Edited by crustie
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This, at least, is true (and needs fixing).

 

From a Sages perspective I have exactly two abilities which ignore armor:

Turbulence, 2 second cast 9 second CD

Weaken Mind a very weak DoT in my specc mainly used to get Proccs

 

All my other abilities get mitigated by armor and against tanks my damage drops easily to 60%.

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The Jedi consular sage. I'm sure that if you pvp on either side of the faction you have come across this class in WZ's and world pvp. This class is used mostly ranged abilities and is has very effective healing abilities. IMO one of the best healers in the game for groups. I can't help notice how often I run into them in warzones, and I would like to point out why.

 

SWTOR calls this class the most balanced class in the game. I beg to differ.

1. One of the best healers in the game.

2. Has very good DPS.

3. Countless cc's

4. Compensates the team very well.

 

Stats on Healer- Healing Abilities

Benevolence has a 1.5 sec cast time healing target and has no cooldown.

Deliverance has a 3 sec casting time healing target and has no cooldown.

Note: Cast time reduced to 2.5 seconds base when talented.

Rejuvenate is instant. Immediately heals a target and additional healing over 9 sec. . 6 second cooldown.

Note: Hot duration increased to 15 seconds when talented.

Healing Trance Channeled 3 sec. Immediately heals target and additional healing over 3 seconds. 9 sec cooldown.

Salvation 2 sec cast. Immediately heals allies within 8 meters of the targeted area, and additional healing over 10 seconds to allies who remain in the area. 15 sec cd.

Ability/Talent Interaction Effects

 

1.When talented, your Rejuvenate goes from a 9 sec Hot to a 15 sec Hot, causes the target to take 10% less damage while active, and when activated causes other healing abilities to be buffed until used:

1.Benevolence: Force cost reduced by 50% (cheaper fast heal)

2.Deliverance: Cast time reduced by 1 sec (1.5 sec big heal)

3.Salvation: Force cost reduced by 30% (cheaper AoE heal)

4.Healing Trance: critical effect increased by 25% (see below)

 

I do not like the healing in this game but I have to live with it and I'm not complaining about it. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the sage healing. But when you add other elements to this ability we have a problem with the balance. I'm not saying nerf nerf but I think some things need to be changed about this class.

Jedi Sage have very good dps as well. That’s not a problem to me as well. But when you add Great DPS and very good healing abilities one would consider it a viable foe. Add countless cc abilities and we have a monster.

 

Force in balance

Force speed

Dispel

Force stun

Force lift

Force slow

Mind snap

Force will

Telekinesis Throw

 

As you can see the class has multiple cc abilities, and when trying to DPS, its really almost impossible when you bring in WZ armor and BM armor. Again I would like to say that although all of these abilities seem very overpowered I believe a clothy need cc's for survivability. IMO some of these abilities need to have longer cd,s or need be some kind of buff needs to be implemented into the game. Force speed needs to be breakable or cc able. Force lift is entirely too long. Telekinesis throw should be stationary and the slow it puts on people should have a much smaller range. I believe that some of these cc's need to be changed or longer cooldowns should be applied.

 

And for the biggest problem with this class is FORCE ARMOR.

Shield/Damage Prevention

Force Armor Instantly Shields target and prevents about 3.5k damage. Target cannot be re-shielded for 20 sec. 30 sec cd

Note: Cost reduced by 30 Force and cooldown by 3 seconds when talented.

(Originally posted by someone else but it's my thoughts exactly from pvp experience in WZ's.)

My general estimate is that the shields take about 5-7k damage to break. Others have said this can go as high as 9k. Mind you this is on a class that can also heal itself.

 

If the caster puts the shield on before engaging a target - which is quite common - by the time it is broken he won't have to wait much longer (if at all) to reapply it. It's quite common for a Sage to be able to shield, take some damage, CC, heal it up and then immediately shield again.

 

Basically what you're looking at here is a class that is supposed to be squishy and is nothing resembling that. Tanks don't really mitigate damage since most big attacks ignore your defenses anyway. Most have the ability to reduce damage by 25% or so for a small amount of time on a long cooldown (several minutes). A reasonably geared Sage with ~15000 HP essentially has the ability to extend this to ~25000 or more in one encounter, assuming we're using 5k absorption from the shield which is at the lower end of the estimation spectrum. If you assume they can absorb up to 9k then you're looking at around 33k effective HP, plus heals.

 

This is a HUGE advantage, as he can basically DPS at will while shielded, CC/Heal in between, and then resume DPS'ing as soon as his shield ban is up (15 seconds, I believe). They have a noticeable deal more survivability than a tank with ~19000 HP when the tank should be the one who is able to take more damage.

 

I really don't think Sages need a big nerf. Their damage is fine and their CC should be there for a class that's supposed to be squishy. The problem is that they're not squishy. A class that's essentially a nuker with some healing ability should be able to use the heals and defensive/CC spells to extend their life, but should not have anywhere near the lifespan of a tank or melee DPS class. A class that's specced for healing should be able to survive solely on the merits of their heals and defensive/CC spells, but won't do that much damage.

 

As it stands, this is not how things are working. Sages are able to put out significant damage, have solid CC, healing ability (which is all fine) and this shield which absorbs far, far too much damage with no bleed and a restriction cooldown that isn't enough of a detriment.

So adding all of these so called BALANCED abilities into a class I have found-

Very strong DPS. Boatload of cc abilities. Incredible healing. And a Force shield that practically never ends. In turn we have a class that everyone wants to play. I wonder why SWTOR says that it's there #1 baby. This class needs to be worked on and fixed before all the pvp is blown away by bubble's and rock projectiles!

 

I play as sorc Hybrid on The Fatman PvP server, and that is true, but u forgot to sat that:

1)Mostly all the cast or heal are channelled and casted so mean Interrupted.

2)When you try to cast or channel something on this game you receive a mass Stun, Mezz, Snare , Root, Push that is insane compared others games.

3) For Cast and Channel Heal/Damage you have to STOP

4) If you play on a RP server you may be able to do be OP, but if you play against person that do Real PvP, You cant cast and channel NOTHING!!!! Cuz you have at least 3 4 person jumping on you all the time, and you die in 1-2 sec

5) Thats OP right?

 

;)

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The worste part of the OP's post, is the fact that he actually took the time to write such a long post of misinformation in an attempt to nerf a class which is already considered by all as the 'easy kill', the only class which normally are the first ones targeted in a pvp warzone because of the 'easy kill'.

 

For everything sages do, we have to STOP in order to do it with the exception of one Direct Damage spell and one useless dot which barely does damage and doesn't stack with our better dot which is on a 2 second cast time. All other spells we have we have to STOP in order to cast it, which means interupts, and death. In PvP, you do not want to stop, you want to be moving around, not a sitting duck! And I love how he is trying to compaire us as a class of 31/31/31 against other classes using regular point counts. *********** joke!

Edited by Bolanos
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Completely false. With talents it is about 3000. Maybe 3500.

 

Annihilate, Rail Shot, Smash, Hidden Strike, Ambush, HSM are all abilities that not only take off the shield in one hit, but if they crit will also deal damage to you as well.

 

Try again, OP.

 

So your saying that all the damage thrown at it (about 3.5k) dam doesnt matter.? And thats all it absorbs before breaking? Thats fine to say I agree with that but what Im saying is the cooldown on force armor starts ticking after the instant cast, NOT when it runs out. so 30 seconds and you can force armor again by the time it wears off. So, rinse and repeat. 3.5 k absortion every 30 seconds. And if your talented its 20 sec cd. deflect 3.5k, 3.5k, 3.5k, 3.5 k. I believe the cooldown for some other classes is 2 min. thats 120 sec cd. OP

Edited by Sccorpion
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