If the Force should stay in balance...

[Beniboybling]

Whatever...

You better run!

[Aurbere]

You better run!

 

That was me 'throwing you a bone.'

 

It feels good to "win," does it not?

 

Over a year and a half (I think) of debating this topic, I don't really have the patience anymore.

[Stinghen]

You seem to be seeing what you want to see here, because I've haven't come across anyone who's made that argument, and instead probably agree with you. So lets not be too hasty on the berating.

 

Firstly let's get rid of this incorrect use of terminology. There is no 'good' and 'evil' just light and dark - neither of which are morally superior to each other but instead dependent on each other. Which leads us to why Jedi philosophy towards the Sith is inherently flawed. You argue, and rightly so, that the Sith cause imbalance. But to assume that the Jedi do not is incorrect, by exterminating the Sith and seeking to purge of the galaxy of the dark side entirely the Jedi too upset the balance. This is then corrected. How? The Sith reemerge somehow, someway, and the cycle starts again.

 

Essentially the Jedi, by pursuing their perverse view of balance - i.e. all light and no dark - disrupt the very balance they seek to preserve and instigate an endless cycle of conflict. So yes, the Jedi's hatred towards the Sith and desire to see nothing other than their absolute destruction is a flawed and misguided one. Because the only way in which they can restore balance and achieve actual peace, actual serenity, is through reconciliation. Accepting the dark side rather than rejecting it. But of course the Jedi are, surprise surprise, too arrogant and ignorant to ever do that.

 

Jedi incompetence, you just can't get away from it can you?

 

I am allowed to interpret other people's words, just as you are allowed to interpret everyone else's words, and consider Lucas' work on Star Wars inferior to KotOR. But I do reserve the right to berate what I view as puerile opinions about morality.

 

If you think the "rule of the Dark Side" doesn't lead to the biblical sort of evil you think I'm referring to, that's fine too. It certainly doesn't lead towards constructiveness, a brilliant future, a hearty place to live in. In fact, there is somewhat of a biblical element to the evil Dark Siders are capable of, especially in the EU, where evil is tenfold stronger than the two trilogies. I mean, Naga Sadow tearing the core from suns, Darth Revan building an endless doomsday army, Darth Nihilus eating worlds, Darth Traya wanting to open wounds in the Force capable of creating Nihilus-like freaks, Vitiate sucking up the life of eight thousand other Sith and making himself immortal... That's very constructive, leads to a progressive and healthy society with not-at-all selfish and self-righteous Sith Lords at the helm (tell me Kreia wasn't as self-righteous as you think the Jedi were).

 

Whereas the true tyrant, the Jedi Order, who has throughout history tried to not impose itself upon the wills of other people, has definetly led to a dark galaxy, where people are prone to dying for no good reason, where there is injustice and inequality, a deadly meritocratic, psychotic, paranoid and treacherous society... Clearly the Jedi magocracy is the unbalancing factor here.

 

And if you think there would be a perfect balance with a bazillion Sith about... please, revisit the entire canon. Let me summarise it for you. First the Dark Jedi find a bunch of cool Force powers, that allow them to twist and turn life at their own whims, so they take their fancy new powers into a war against their fellow Jedi. They lose, and are exiled. The Sith fall under the rule of the Dark Jedi exiles after the Hundred Year Darkness. They take control of their society, and start an expansionistic Empire. So long as countless worlds are annexed through war, there is "peace in the Empire", but as soon as their expansion begins to be curbed by somewhat wiser Sith Lords (Marka Ragnos), inner strife begins. Naga Sadow, seeing the beligerence of his fellow Sith, thinks to direct that anger to further his own goals (become Dark Lord of the Sith). So he ignites the galactic total war number two, where he has his own butt handed to him, and becomes himself exiled. One thousand years later, another smug and misguided Jedi stumbles through Korriban and Yavin, and finds pretty Sith trinkets with which to play, so he turns a whole bunch of Jedi to his cause and ignites galactic total war number three. He is defeated, and thirty years later another pair of self-righteous Jedi find another set of cool dark side trinkets, and eventually ignite total war number four. After they were defeated, the little spoiled brats that jumped off their wagon before it blew up start a covert total war, war number five, and nearly succeed in f*cking everything up. Three hundred years later, the survivors from total war number two return, itching for a comeback, and ignite total war number six. They are defeated, and their philosophical successors gang up around trinkets and teachings and start total war number seven, which culminates in quite a bit of bloodshed along one thousand years. Then along comes a smarter Sith, not prone to playing with trinkets, and rethinks their whole system, goes into the shadows and when his philosophical successors deem it ready, they ignite total wars number eight (Clone Wars) and nine (Galactic Civil War), with which they'd hope to cement their rule over the galaxy. Turns out the big bad Sithilies end up dead (again), and game's over, until some other smug kid thinks to bring them back and start the cycle again. Now I ask you. Which side started every single conflict again?

 

And on the matter of balance in the Force itself, I already explained all my opinions, and what can be interpreted from the only canon sources that are not disproportionately overblown. But do tell me how the Jedi wanted every single Sith dead, because... Sith. The Jedi did not even need five thousand years of wars started by the Sith to know their foes' philosophy could only lead to destruction. At first, the destruction of all things not Sith, then, since good Sith always vied for power, in time when there were only Sith about, they'd begin turning on themselves. It is quite the logical conclusion. There can be no balance with the Sith about, even if you believe that balance is achieved by favouring light and dark equally, because no Sith gives a damn about balance. It was only a matter of time until there came along one Sith powerful enough to tilt the scales to the other side for once.

 

And canon has changed, the Jedi philosophy has long since become obsolete. I don't think I need to explain that.

 

Actually, you would need to. Because I don't see how that is the absolute truth. In fact, here's what really is obsolete: the Je'daii Order. The first widespread order of Force-user philosophers (or scholars, it's a moot difference). They believed the Force was comprised of two sides - Ashla the light and Bogan the dark (Boogeyman - any similarity is merely a coincidence). They were the ones who thought that a perfect balance between dark and light should be strived to achieve. It didn't really work out. The Force-user traditions that held the Je'daii Order as its direct ancestor (Jedi Order, the Legions of Lettow, and... guess who? the Sith!) both drifted completely away from that philosophy in the course of their history. So maybe it's not the Jedi tenets that are outdated... Maybe it's yours

 

And it can't even be argued that the Je'daii Order knew how to keep things in balance. The Force Wars would never have happened in the first place if they did.

[Darth_Krushya]

And that brings to the interpretation of "what is balance", where the Force is concerned. Balance is only achieved when there are no driving forces directing any particular event. When events unfold by their own volition, in an infinite span of time. But when there are Sithilies tottering about, that is never going to happen. Because Sithilies (darksiders in general, really) take the Force to carve out their will in the universe. They drive the Force into unbalance by using it to exert their sole will, without discrimination. So long as there are Sithilies about and doing what they do best, the Force will be unbalanced. So bringing it back into balance is not allowing the evil guys as much power as the good guys, to have equal forces on opposite locations. It is removing the mofo's who keep trying to tilt whatever cosmic scales there are in their own favour (the entirety of Sidious' training revolved around that concept, that the Darksiders are the next step in evolution, and that they should be in complete control of the Force and it should serve their will, rather than the other way around).

 

That's what I was trying to say. Thank you!

[Beniboybling]

You've completely missed the point here. One you've forgotten that nobody is guilty of asserting what you view as "puerile" - and yet continue to berate me as if I do and proceeded to go on and expand on a point I don't even disagree with. And two you've ignored my strong suggestion to stop dealing in good and evil. This is why. Because we get bogged down in a quagmire of morality and completely overlook what is actually important, the Force.

 

Now as you know the Force is a transcendent entity and therefore transcends pretty much everything you've just said, morality included. It doesn't matter who is more right, we are not dealing with good and evil here. This isn't about casting blame, both sides are to blame. The Jedi are just as responsible for the perpetual war as the Sith are for failing to stop the endless conflict, for failing to change. Remember what Einstein said:

 

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

And what do the Jedi do over and over and over? Purge the Sith, purge the Sith, purge the Sith. Each time expecting everlasting peace or something, despite the fact that the Sith will return as they always do.

 

However, like you've demonstrated, the Jedi have the ability to essentially be "the better man."

 

The Jedi, as pseudo-pacifists, are in a position to achieve reconciliation with the dark side. Because given that in order to achieve balance, an equality between light and dark must be met, the Jedi have to somehow reconcile with the Sith, by changing. The philosophy of the Je'daii Order of course is the ideal solution, accepting both halves of the Force and practicing both halves ultimately leads to true balance. And accepting the dark side would put an end to the conflict as the Sith would never have any reason to return, they would be absorbed and cease to exist, as the war is almost always caused by a Jedi seeking the power of the dark side, and being forbidden to use it.

 

And when I said the philosophy of the Jedi is outdated, I mean from an out-of-universe perspective. Lucas has long since demonstrated that balance in the Force is equality been light and dark, but Aurbere still seems to assert that the balance between the Force is the dominance of the light side - as the Jedi believe - which is false.

 

Now I'm sure you believe that the Je'daii Order is flawed because eventually the Jedi and Sith split, but you may be interested to know that the Je'daii Order experienced 10,000 years of peace before collapsing. How many years did the Jedi Order achieve? 1,000? Which Order do you think was better for the galaxy?

 

And I can't make this any more clear, I'm not just suggesting that the Jedi sit back and ignore the Sith. That would be foolish, the Sith actively cause imbalance just as much, if not more, than the Jedi do. But simply wiping them out is doing the same thing as they are. The only benefit is a greater level of acceptable moral standards. But ultimately that's not going to stop the galaxy being ravaged year in, year out, in a war that has nothing to do with them.

 

Surely you see the futility of this? The need for change? Or do you support the endless cycle of death?

 

EDIT: Like you said: "Balance is only achieved when there are no driving forces directing any particular event." The Jedi are just as much a driving force as the Sith, and as such both must make peace with eachother.

 

What you need to do is stop asserting that the Jedi are pure good and the Sith pure evil, that the Jedi are faultless and the Sith the cause of all the problems. Both are at fault, the only reason you hear me bashing the Jedi instead of the Sith is because everyone seems to think they are perfect, whereas everyone would agree if I said the Sith are bad.

 

But ultimately, I wholeheartedly reject both philosophies, no matter what my personal preference may be.

[Beniboybling]

That was me 'throwing you a bone.'

 

It feels good to "win," does it not?

 

Over a year and a half (I think) of debating this topic, I don't really have the patience anymore.

 

EDIT: Anyway, this debate has been had and done. And I believe this was your conclusion:

 

==================================================

 

You do make a good point. However the blame cannot lay solely on the shoulders of the Jedi. Or the Sith for that matter. They may both be at fault for the wars and strife between them, but it is far greater than that. While the Sith and the Jedi can control themselves, it is the Dark Side that they cannot control. The Dark Side is corruption, destruction and unnatural. One could say that the Dark Side pushes the Sith to do these things. It cannot be controlled except by those with the will to do so.

 

I like your ideas for bridging the gap, but to do so would require the removal of the Dark Side. The very nature of the Dark Side works against this 'peace.'

 

==================================================

 

You need to search your feelings Aurbere, you know it too be true.

[Stinghen]

 

You've completely missed the point here. One you've forgotten that nobody is guilty of asserting what you view as "puerile" - and yet continue to berate me as if I do and proceeded to go on and expand on a point I don't even disagree with. And two you've ignored my strong suggestion to stop dealing in good and evil. This is why. Because we get bogged down in a quagmire of morality and completely overlook what is actually important, the Force.

 

Now as you know the Force is a transcendent entity and therefore transcends pretty much everything you've just said, morality included. It doesn't matter who is more right, we are not dealing with good and evil here. This isn't about casting blame, both sides are to blame. The Jedi are just as responsible for the perpetual war as the Sith are for failing to stop the endless conflict, for failing to change. Remember what Einstein said:

 

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

And what do the Jedi do over and over and over? Purge the Sith, purge the Sith, purge the Sith. Each time expecting everlasting peace or something, despite the fact that the Sith will return as they always do.

 

However, like you've demonstrated, the Jedi have the ability to essentially be "the better man."

 

The Jedi, as pseudo-pacifists, are in a position to achieve reconciliation with the dark side. Because given that in order to achieve balance, an equality between light and dark must be met, the Jedi have to somehow reconcile with the Sith, by changing. The philosophy of the Je'daii Order of course is the ideal solution, accepting both halves of the Force and practicing both halves ultimately leads to true balance. And accepting the dark side would put an end to the conflict as the Sith would never have any reason to return, they would be absorbed and cease to exist, as the war is almost always caused by a Jedi seeking the power of the dark side, and being forbidden to use it.

 

And when I said the philosophy of the Jedi is outdated, I mean from an out-of-universe perspective. Lucas has long since demonstrated that balance in the Force is equality been light and dark, but Aurbere still seems to assert that the balance between the Force is the dominance of the light side - as the Jedi believe - which is false.

 

Now I'm sure you believe that the Je'daii Order is flawed because eventually the Jedi and Sith split, but you may be interested to know that it lasted for 10,000 years before collapsing. And the Jedi Order fared no better, eventually after thousands of years of conflict, the Jedi were destroyed.

 

And I can't make this any more clear, I'm not just suggesting that the Jedi sit back and ignore the Sith. That would be foolish, the Sith actively cause imbalance just as much, if not more, than the Jedi do. But simply wiping them out is doing the same thing as they are. The only benefit is a greater level of acceptable moral standards. But ultimately that's not going to stop the galaxy being ravager year in, year out, for a war that has nothing to do with them.

 

Surely you see the futility of this? The need for change? Or do you support the endless cycle of death?

 

EDIT: Like you said: "Balance is only achieved when there are no driving forces directing any particular event." The Jedi are just as much a driving force as the Sith, and as such both must make peace with eachother.

 

What you need to do is stop asserting that the Jedi are pure good and the Sith pure evil, that the Jedi are faultless and the Sith the cause of all the problems. Both are at fault, the only reason you here me bashing the Jedi instead of the Sith is because everyone seems to think they are perfect, whereas everyone would agree if I said the Sith are bad.

 

But ultimately, I wholeheartedly reject both philosophies, no matter what my personal preference may be.

 

 

Well, I suppose an apology would be required for the tone of the last post. I mean it as no personal insult. That said, I actually realised your point after I wrote in the long post.

 

The trick here, that fundaments my opinion, is that the Force in itself has no sides. It doesn't really care about good or evil, like you said. But the power of the Force as it is used by individuals, those uses are bound by the concepts of morality that do exist. Using the Force overmuch or to achieve personal gain, twist it to perform, as Palpatine would say, unnatural abilities, that's the sole cause for the stated unbalance in the Force.

 

Take Darth Plagueis' deeds, for example. After he killed Darth Venamis, he and Sidious meditated on the Force, and "tipped the scales in the Dark Side's favour". He tried to manipulate the Force to create life and was, by his own account, unsuccesful. The Force, he theorised, fought back against his attempt to control it to create life. And Anakin Skywalker may have been the Force's way of fighting back against the unbalance that was imposed on it.

 

You could argue that he did that by destroying the Jedi first then the Sith, twenty years later, but the Great Jedi Purge was merely the peak of the imbalance, when the Sith asserted sole control of the Galaxy, and when they placed themselves above all others, as the only manipulators of the Force in the galaxy. So, all Anakin ever did with the Great Jedi Purge was ensure that the Force remained unbalanced for twenty more years, until he finally destroyed the Emperor and ended the threat.

 

But the Jedi work in very different ways. Even when you take away their morality, they still teach that using the Force to solve every situation is not a correct course of action. It may not necessarily lead to the dark side (though it often does), but using the Force too much may produce unbalance, and the Jedi strive to keep all things in balance.

 

So, the Jedi are not really a driving force. They do not oppose the Sith in the "cosmic scales" to create balance. They seek to remove the factors that cause unbalance without producing too strong an unbalance themselves. As Yoda put it, "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack."

[Beniboybling]

 

 

 

Well, I suppose an apology would be required for the tone of the last post. I mean it as no personal insult. That said, I actually realised your point after I wrote in the long post.

 

The trick here, that fundaments my opinion, is that the Force in itself has no sides. It doesn't really care about good or evil, like you said. But the power of the Force as it is used by individuals, those uses are bound by the concepts of morality that do exist. Using the Force overmuch or to achieve personal gain, twist it to perform, as Palpatine would say, unnatural abilities, that's the sole cause for the stated unbalance in the Force.

 

Take Darth Plagueis' deeds, for example. After he killed Darth Venamis, he and Sidious meditated on the Force, and "tipped the scales in the Dark Side's favour". He tried to manipulate the Force to create life and was, by his own account, unsuccesful. The Force, he theorised, fought back against his attempt to control it to create life. And Anakin Skywalker may have been the Force's way of fighting back against the unbalance that was imposed on it.

 

You could argue that he did that by destroying the Jedi first then the Sith, twenty years later, but the Great Jedi Purge was merely the peak of the imbalance, when the Sith asserted sole control of the Galaxy, and when they placed themselves above all others, as the only manipulators of the Force in the galaxy. So, all Anakin ever did with the Great Jedi Purge was ensure that the Force remained unbalanced for twenty more years, until he finally destroyed the Emperor and ended the threat.

 

But the Jedi work in very different ways. Even when you take away their morality, they still teach that using the Force to solve every situation is not a correct course of action. It may not necessarily lead to the dark side (though it often does), but using the Force too much may produce unbalance, and the Jedi strive to keep all things in balance.

 

So, the Jedi are not really a driving force. They do not oppose the Sith in the "cosmic scales" to create balance. They seek to remove the factors that cause unbalance without producing too strong an unbalance themselves. As Yoda put it, "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack."

Oh I didn't take offence, my stance would (and often has) been the same when people attempt to defend the Sith as anything other than a problem. But anyway, now we are on the same page.

 

I do agree that the Jedi, when not in conflict, don't cause any degree of imbalance. Whereas the Sith actively 'propagate' if you will dark side energy. However it is in the act of destroying the Sith - much like Anakin did with Sidious - that they become a driving force, and arguably by wiping out the Sith, the Force becomes imbalanced.

 

Like you said, the Force is indifferent to either side. However it does strive to maintain balance, i.e. creating the Chosen One. Likewise when the Sith are wiped out the balance is upset, and so inevitably new dark siders will take up the mantle. This is the inherent problem that the Jedi face, but fail to understand in its entirety. The Jedi don't understand what true balance is, and so they destroy the Sith without moderation.

 

This is the problem, and the solution is a radical change of philosophy. The current philosophy of the Jedi Order is that the Force is inherently light, and that the dark side is a corruption of this, a cancer. One they constantly seek to remove, but if they ever finally realized that this is not the case, and that balance in the Force is equality between light and dark, they would be forced to change their philosophy. Instead of upholding the light and solely the light, they would be forced to accommodate for the dark and achieve balance within their own Order.

 

However with balance, comes moderation. The atrocities of the Sith that you point to are only caused by those who follow the path of the dark side to its pinnacle, and embrace it totally. The Je'daii Order promoted a balance between the two, not straying to far down either path. And any Je'daii that did would be banished to one of the moons of Tython to reflect on these mistakes.

 

Altogether I believe the Force should be used in moderation. Force users should seek to achieve any manner of dominance over light or dark, remaining balanced between passion and serenity is achievable, and what all Force users should ultimately strive for. And the Je'daii Order have shown that it is more than possible.

 

Which brings us back to the question, what is between passion and serenity? I'd like to think happiness. But how can you attack with happiness? You can't, which is partly the point. True balance would also require pacifism.

[Stinghen]

 

Oh I didn't take offence, my stance would (and often has) been the same when people attempt to defend the Sith as anything other than a problem. But anyway, now we are on the same page.

 

I do agree that the Jedi, when not in conflict, don't cause any degree of imbalance. Whereas the Sith actively 'propagate' if you will dark side energy. However it is in the act of destroying the Sith - much like Anakin did with Sidious - that they become a driving force, and arguably by wiping out the Sith, the Force becomes imbalanced.

 

Like you said, the Force is indifferent to either side. However it does strive to maintain balance, i.e. creating the Chosen One. Likewise when the Sith are wiped out the balance is upset, and so inevitably new dark siders will take up the mantle. This is the inherent problem that the Jedi face, but fail to understand in its entirety. The Jedi don't understand what true balance is, and so they destroy the Sith without moderation.

 

This is the problem, and the solution is a radical change of philosophy. The current philosophy of the Jedi Order is that the Force is inherently light, and that the dark side is a corruption of this, a cancer. One they constantly seek to remove, but if they ever finally realized that this is not the case, and that balance in the Force is equality between light and dark, they would be forced to change their philosophy. Instead of upholding the light and solely the light, they would be forced to accommodate for the dark and achieve balance within their own Order.

 

However with balance, comes moderation. The atrocities of the Sith that you point to are only caused by those who follow the path of the dark side to its pinnacle, and embrace it totally. The Je'daii Order promoted a balance between the two, not straying to far down either path. And any Je'daii that did would be banished to one of the moons of Tython to reflect on these mistakes.

 

Altogether I believe the Force should be used in moderation. Force users should seek to achieve any manner of dominance over light or dark, remaining balanced between passion and serenity is achievable, and what all Force users should ultimately strive for. And the Je'daii Order have shown that it is more than possible.

 

Which brings us back to the question, what is between passion and serenity? I'd like to think happiness. But how can you attack with happiness? You can't, which is partly the point. True balance would also require pacifism.

 

 

That's precisely where we differ. To you, balance can only be achieved by equally favouring the light and dark. To me, it is when the Force is less and less relied upon. If every Force-user sought to not exert their will over the Force, and merely "follow its will", in a Jedi-esque approach, there would be no unbalance. So, if every Force-user showed restraint, they would not fall to the Dark Side and try to exert their will over the Force, and balance would be achieved. But it's naive to assume there wouldn't be misguided people about. So, Anakin Skywalker kills Darth Sidious, and allows the Force to return to balance. But soon, another misguided fool (not has as powerful as Sidious) steps up and rocks the foundations by resurrecting the Sith. Not to mention the next incarnation of the Sith (Lumiya's) is actually the offspring of Sidious' teachings, so they're still part of the imbalance that Sith Lord introduced to begin with.

[LadyKulvax]

I think a lot of generalisations are being made, the Jedi certainly dont have a perfect view of the force at all, but clearly they are very suppressive of any other ideas, such as the Potentium, etc... they certainly do not have the complete view of the Force at all.

 

The Sith are not any better, most of them would do whatever it takes to gain power, they could care less what that does to effect the balance in the Force, there are those Sith who do not strive to become ever powerful and only use the Dark Side as an ends to a means, Darth Caedus is a good example of this, he wasn't in it for the power, he was in it for what is actually a very balance inducing objective, to stop the wars for good, he became the 'dark man' in his visions to make the war end, he united everyone else against him.

 

Darth Tyrannus being another good example.

 

Sith and Jedi that are not after total domination (because lets face it the Jedi want to dominate the galaxy as far as Force Users are concerned, there is no way they would ever let the Sith exist on their own) are the ones that maintain the balance, not exerting their will over the force, which they both do very many times throughout history, is the only way balance can be maintained.

 

But it is all well and good, because there is someone that will clean them both up if they keep wreaking havoc and she is called Abeloth, but oh wait, the Jedi went and destroyed her to.

 

Thankfully, the ridiculousness of the Post-ROTJ will be irrelevant soon enough and we can get back to good old grounded force abilities, not LOLStorms and Time****ing.

[Beniboybling]

 

That's precisely where we differ. To you, balance can only be achieved by equally favouring the light and dark. To me, it is when the Force is less and less relied upon. If every Force-user sought to not exert their will over the Force, and merely "follow its will", in a Jedi-esque approach, there would be no unbalance. So, if every Force-user showed restraint, they would not fall to the Dark Side and try to exert their will over the Force, and balance would be achieved. But it's naive to assume there wouldn't be misguided people about. So, Anakin Skywalker kills Darth Sidious, and allows the Force to return to balance. But soon, another misguided fool (not has as powerful as Sidious) steps up and rocks the foundations by resurrecting the Sith. Not to mention the next incarnation of the Sith (Lumiya's) is actually the offspring of Sidious' teachings, so they're still part of the imbalance that Sith Lord introduced to begin with.

So your suggesting the Jedi carry on as they are and rely on the Force to resolve the balance again, and again, almost always at the cost of countless innocent lives? I don't find that very compelling.

 

Indeed we have a contradiction in terms here. On one hand we have the idea of following the will of the Force, and then on the other hand we have practicing restraint. These terms are mutually exclusive, and are the problem the Jedi face.

 

Firstly I'd make clear that the Sith follow the will of the Force as much as the Jedi do. It may not seem outwardly apparent but that's only because the Jedi are all serenity and peace and the Sith all "raagh! kill!" But we can't forget that Sith philosophy is all about embracing passion and embracing power, essentially embracing the Force. But this is were restraint comes into play, especially with the Jedi, the Jedi show restraint by actively resisting the lure of the dark side. But what is the dark side but an extension of the Force? Given that, by resisting the lure of the dark side the Jedi resist the will of the Force itself. And the will of the Force is balance, which is achieved by an equal amount of light and dark, which leads to Jedi falling to the dark side - because the Force commands it.

 

So essentially this idea of restraint is completely polar to the nature of the Force and cosmic balance. Regardless, there is a middle ground. You suggest that Force users should be less reliant on the Force, and I agree. But this is achieved through moderation, not by becoming a full blown light sider (or dark sider) - that's taken the Force to the extreme, that's relying in the Force completely, effectively giving yourself up to it, the Sith are no different.

 

Balance on the other hand demands moderation and therefore detachment, one cannot be too reliant on the Force if one wishes to achieve balance else one with inevitably choose a path - driven by emotions.

[MoskitoMando]

IMO the only way for the force to stay in balance is constant war, which is why there's a light and a dark side. If one side or the other triumphs the force is thrown out of balance. If this is correct, that means the closest the force has ever been to 'in balance' is during the events of SWTOR.

[Beniboybling]

IMO the only way for the force to stay in balance is constant war, which is why there's a light and a dark side. If one side or the other triumphs the force is thrown out of balance. If this is correct, that means the closest the force has ever been to 'in balance' is during the events of SWTOR.

And here in lies the problem.

[Aurbere]

Why can't we just burn this thread at the stake? Kill it! Kill it with fire!

[Beniboybling]

Why can't we just burn this thread at the stake? Kill it! Kill it with fire!

But I like this thread.

[Aurbere]

But I like this thread.

 

It doesn't matter! The thread must DIE!

[Beniboybling]

It doesn't matter! The thread must DIE!

 

Yup, its a she.

[Selenial]

 

Yup, its a she.

 

I knew it was only a matter of time until someone used That Vid!

Edited October 7, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

I knew it was only a matter of time until someone used That Vid!

Your vid?

[Selenial]

Your vid?

 

Lol wut?

[Beniboybling]

Lol wut?

Lol who? I could have sworn for a moment it said "your"...

[Selenial]

Lol who? I could have sworn for a moment it said "your"...

 

o.0

 

 

*Slowly backs away*

[Beniboybling]

o.0

 

 

*Slowly backs away*

Help me.

[Selenial]

Help me.

 

Go back to the Kaggath thread. Naughty!

[Beniboybling]

Go back to the Kaggath thread. Naughty!

Hey wait, look at

awesome vid I found!

 

Nyan Kreia telling it straight.