EA Blames Subscriber Loss on Casual Players (TOR-Talk Editorial)

[aceavenger]

Today TOR-Talk Writer Sly Lasko broke down and summarized the most recent EA Conference Call with the TOR-related material. If you haven't heard the number of people playing SW:TOR has dropped 25%; 1.7 million people were known to playing SW:TOR before the most recent conference call, as of a couple days ago it is now at 1.3 million. If you want a good read I encourage you to check out this article. Shown below is a little glimpse:

 

 

 

To continue reading the article click on this link!

 

 

• What's your take on this most recent news? Please give us your opinion.
  

 

My opinion, its the hardcore gamers that are leaving, they blew through their content for lvling and since its not a fully developed MMO they ran out of things to do. Now what we have is servers that are lite on population and people quitting because of that. I think if they merged servers or did cross server ques for pvp and pve things would be different.

[Tiaa]

"Community" and "General" forums...how redundant.

 

Anyways...

 

Let's say this game has three groups: Casuals, Hardcore, And Single-Player crowd.

 

This game was created to focus on the Single-Player and Casual crowd. Most players don't even know what "causal" is so I know EA doesn't.

 

This much is obvious. I'll try to generalize the groups for the sake of understanding EA has no idea what they are talking about / are just making an excuse.

 

Harcore players: The players that make it through the game the fastest, see through the walls of hype and quit because they feel this game has nothing to offer them. If you are hardcore in a MMO, you probably like the MMO genre.

 

The Casuals: Are the ones who barely get to end game content and ignore most of the problems because they either can look past it problems, really don't care or don't play enough for things like that to bother them.

 

Single-Player Crowd: The ones who came to SWTOR only looking for the story mode. These players generally do not socialize with players, barely, if ever ,get to max level and have tons of alts. These players probably know very little about MMOs and/or not big fans of them.

 

Despite belief that only "casual" players have "lives", plenty of hardcore players have "lives" as well.

 

Many times "hardcore players" are just more efficient at the game than you are. So instead of admitting that the "causal" players think it's only because "hardcore" players have less responsibilities so therefore are losers. AKA Poor sports.

 

If ANYONE quit the game it was the hardcore players. The ones that have a vision of what a "MMO" should be and did not see it in SWTOR.

 

What I think happened is that EA/Bioware underestimated their "hardcore" crowd and thought they could just slap

SWTOR and Biowares name on anything and it would do well forever.

 

Not only that, stepping outside of the single-player game field, they brought nothing to the table except for single-player game mechanics.

 

With all the free weeks and free months etc I am almost sure that the subscriber number is lower.

 

Bioware created this environment of competition by talking about how "SWTOR would MORE than compete with WoW"...instead of coming into a new market as humble as possible.

[CrazyCanukk]

I work 60 hours a week From April to December ...i cant do anything else but game "casually" ..

 

when gaming starts to pay me a salary and puts food on the table and pays my mortgage is when i'll dedicate more time to it.

 

I enjoy this game, really enjoy the time i get to play it..but as for being a "casual" player.. I and dare i say many others dont have a choice.

[jolten]

NICE maybe EA will now stop cattering to the masses and give people that actually play the game stuff they want, like more operations, more flashpoints, more warzones, dual spec, server transfers, probably missing something else

 

I would say it needs more meaningful pvp, warzones gets old pretty quick.

But i dont know if it's even possible to get some sandbox world pvp, i mean we all noticed how well it handled illum with lousy framerates and lag.

Edited May 10, 2012 by jolten

[stormravn]

in my view what i would like to see from the game is this ...pvp all over kinda like in galaxies ya can assault bases take over space ports steal ships etc.. i mean currently the pvp system is a joke i mean wow words cant express the anger the pvp system brings me... however some of the comments were on point your truly cant focus on pve and pvp at the same time pick one refine it like a fine tooth comb and make it awesome ..yes there can be safe zones and such but open it up everything is fair game i think that will bring some much needed air to the game while they figure out what to do to keep us payin money

[ahnog]

If they are truly thinking its the casual players who are the problem they are sorely misled. The problem is the imbalance in server populations and the departure of hard core gamers.

[Talorya]

Casual players is what kept WoW going for years, and yet they decided to offend the biggest and easiest market to hold on to as paying customers?

 

EA, bad move.

 

People "leave" these games because it's not enjoyable for them, plain and simple, whether they're hardcore or casual doesn't matter. When it comes to MMOs people either stick around or they don't, gaming experience does NOT influence that fact.

 

Hardcore players can blow through content, pvp and raid out the entire game within a few weeks, but if the content is enjoyable, they'll keep doing it for months to come. Tend to be more vocal, they know what they "want" and cry foul every time something doesn't go their way (yeah, I put them in the hardcore section).

 

Casual players play at slower pacing in general, but it doesn't mean they're any less capable when they play. Casual is just a matter of time they can put in, and usually not as much and resulting in them going through the content slower. Whether they participate on the forums or not is not a priority, they have limited time available anyways, so why spend it outside of the game? I find them ingame more than out, people just happily going about their business and not caring if something is nerfed or bugged. They'll keep playing so long as they can keep enjoying the game.

 

Both types can continue to subscribe for different reasons, but their interests in the game are different, which is why content releases aren't always of the same importance for both and leads to one side favoring the game in the coming months over the next.

 

The quick leavers are the ones who never stuck around anyways, these people I refer to as the "trials". They try out a game for the first month, repeatedly refer to WoW as the go, and then leaves without seeing much of the game because they didn't really care in the first place. They're in every game at launch, few last into the second month and are all but gone in the third, fourth months. This is the reason why I always said to reserve judgement on the community until at least the 3rd month, when it's less immature.

 

In the end though, it doesn't matter if the user base is hardcore, casual, or just trials, if the game has quality content, they'll all stick around. If and when the game fails to deliver quality and variety, then people will leave, no matter what type of gamer they are.

 

People leave because the game sucks for them, not because they belong to a certain type of preconceived notion of gaming habits.

Because let's face it, we play games because we want to have fun, not to pestered by bugs that goes unfixed for months or features that simply doesn't work and be nickel and dime'd every time we take a step in the game. We saw raids released within the first two months of the game, that's only accessible to level 50s. Later on, we saw what, another level 50 content flashpoint? So more content for the level 50s. We didn't see anything for non-50s until 1.2 came out a few weeks ago, and that was a limited timed event with its own share of bugs and problems.

 

The direction the game is taking is obvious to those who have been watching, and more and more people are leaving because they don't like where the game is going.

 

Never blame the customers, they're always right, even if they're wrong, because without customers, there is no business.

[MaverickXIV]

Never blame the customers, they're always right, even if they're wrong, because without customers, there is no business.

You wrote all of that on the assumption that EA was "blaming" their customers for something. Read the damned article, it says nothing of that sort. The thread creator aggrandized the actual content of the article because the article itself is rather bland and this phrasing makes EA seem like they did something wrong when, at least in this case, they didn't.

 

I'd also venture to say that an EA business analyst's definition of a "casual" gamer isn't what everyone here considers a "casual" gamer. Their words read, to me, like "casual" for them means "consumers who buy the product with no intentions of staying."

 

No one blamed anyone for anything. Stop being defensive about something that didn't actually happen.

[Talorya]

You wrote all of that on the assumption that EA was "blaming" their customers for something. Read the damned article, it says nothing of that sort. The thread creator aggrandized the actual content of the article because the article itself is rather bland and this phrasing makes EA seem like they did something wrong when, at least in this case, they didn't.

 

I'd also venture to say that an EA business analyst's definition of a "casual" gamer isn't what everyone here considers a "casual" gamer. Their words read, to me, like "casual" for them means "consumers who buy the product with no intentions of staying."

 

No one blamed anyone for anything. Stop being defensive about something that didn't actually happen.

 

They did lay blame, by identifying these users that left and labeling them as "casual" is the "polite" way of laying blame on the users and saying they're just "casuals".

If they didn't want this view to be generated in this possibility they would have refrained from using such labels and make something like this instead,

"And as the service evolves from here, what we're seeing is that some of the initial customers have gone through a billing cycle and decided not to subscribe to the game."

And as no clarification was made on "billing cycle", it could mean anything from an actual paid period of time post included box time, or any duration that matches the time of a subscription cycle (min 30 days). This would allow them to also use "billing cycle" as just 30 days and count the initial included time as a "billing cycle". Further contributing factors that suggest it as 30 days is the wording, instead of "not to continue to subscribe to the game" they use "not to subscribe to the game". This can suggest the subscription fee has not been charged, thus these people are in a "billing cycle" of 30 days but not paying subscription.

 

The inclusion of "casual" meant they are actively thinking about this portion of the audience as non-contributors, discounting the new users who are still on their included time and saying that,

"So the percentage of paying subscribers from our peak until now has actually gone up, and the folks that we have are as engaged as they were when they first bought the product."

Now that there are less people that are joining the game and on the initial included time, the percentage of people on longer renewal rates are still around and classed as "core MMO users" and "paying subscribers".

 

PR is a difficult thing to manage, as every word has its own consequence and tons of ways to interpret it, unless carried out in a very specific way to discourage unintended results. The label "casual" should never have been used, regardless of their actual meaning.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Talorya

[RobNightfall]

NICE maybe EA will now stop cattering to the masses and give people that actually play the game stuff they want, like more operations, more flashpoints, more warzones, dual spec, server transfers, probably missing something else

 

LOL you do realize that those of us who want standard MMO features are the ones who are leaving right? EA can blame casual players all they want, but its people who want LFG tools, who want actual fun PvP, and who want end game and raid content who are actually leaving. It's people who are less interested in the features a normal MMO should have that are staying.

[Dasgruberg]

Right now the biggest problem is the slow reaction time for solving the empty server issue. Many people saw this coming a long time ago and posted time and again, sendt letters and even told them on twitter

 

. I saw it early and was willing to reroll in time on a good server and was a bit lucky with it. My jug was valor 77 when i started seeing it before 1.2 . now i got full BM on my shadow on a high pop server and the game is great there. But on my jug i cant even get a pvp que exept for 6pm-9pm. And then im fighting the same 15 people all the time.

 

Subs are bleeding, and while they may come back when the new patches come, ide say it was the lack of preparing for this. I dont know how hard it is to pull off transfers on this scale since i dont know anything technical about it, but it seems like they werent prepared for it at all. Now theyre reaping the cost of that.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Dasgruberg

[Niypi]

If they are truly thinking its the casual players who are the problem they are sorely misled. The problem is the imbalance in server populations and the departure of hard core gamers.

 

^ this.....

[HumanSheild]

Shouldnt have made such an easy game imo. Specialy when you basicaly copied wow so naturaly players that come from that game to this isnt going to be much of a challenge since imo you basicaly allready did on release what wow did over years....dumbing down the game to make it easy for casual/weekend players.

 

Id fire the idiot that came up with that plan specialy when you spent over 200 million dollars lols..Epic fail. Im sure by the end of the year this game will end up in the guiness world records and not for the epic dialog but for the most money spent on a single epic fail. But hey thats why you guys stick to telling the current players all the wonderfull crap to keep them around for the next month so they keep paying their 15 dolla!

[RicoFrost]

Not everyone likes every game they get. There is no way that you will retain 100% of people that pick up the game.

 

I got COD black ops - didn't finish it uninstalled it... i now don't buy any COD games.

I got Star Craft 2 - did a few levels then uninstalled... didn't like it.

 

I recall something like 45% of people that didn't like wow would cancel before reaching lvl 10, this was a number of years ago.

Edited May 11, 2012 by RicoFrost

[HumanSheild]

Not everyone likes every game they get. There is no way that you will retain 100% of people that pick up the game.

 

I got COD black ops - didn't finish it uninstalled it... i now don't buy any COD games.

I got Star Craft 2 - did a few levels then uninstalled... didn't like it.

 

I recall something like 45% of people that didn't like wow would cancel before reaching lvl 10, this was a number of years ago.

 

thats kinda ironic. I actualy lasted longer on wow then this game lol.. 9months on wow and 5 months on this game.

 

Wow has way way waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more things to do at any level in the game and very little restrictions too. I left purely because blizzard could not stop messing with toons.nerf this beef that no no wait nerf it all! Nah nerf it so the weekend player can compete with the hard core players..

[RicoFrost]

thats kinda ironic. I actualy lasted longer on wow then this game lol.. 9months on wow and 5 months on this game.

 

Wow has way way waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more things to do at any level in the game and very little restrictions too. I left purely because blizzard could not stop messing with toons.nerf this beef that no no wait nerf it all! Nah nerf it so the weekend player can compete with the hard core players..

 

When did you start playing wow? if you've started playing wow in the last few years of cause you would have more to do, we are up to expansion number 3 about to start number 4. You really cant compare game content that's had 7yrs work of updates and expansions to one that's only been out 5 months.

Edited May 11, 2012 by RicoFrost

[Xatasha]

Not really news. Most MMOs have your lookie looks that come for a couple months and then move on to other games. Casual players do bring in money however you also get the lazy whiny player than pretends to be a casual that tries to get the game so nerfed down that all you do is log in to get level cap. This will cause your more hardcore players to get bored and leave.

 

It is really hard to balance between the hardcore and casual player base. Most of us I think fall somewhere in the middle of the two. If you favor either side to much you tend to lose players from the other side.

[CaptRavenous]

I blame EA as well.

 

They wanted their profitz, and they wanted them NAO!

 

You guys sitting on the executive board at EA.....

 

You suck, and DO NOT know what players want from an MMO.

 

Bioware, continue doing things as you have done in the past to make award-winning games.

 

Ignore idiots at EA. Give them bullcrap reasons as to how you are fixing the game. Do not accept input from men who are 50+ years old, and see MMOs as a way to make fast money only.

 

Show them you can make them more money, by doing what you have done in the past.

 

Thank you.

[TheLordMagnus]

um players that didnt like the game left its 5 months old people this will happen i for one am a hard core player play every day for at least 8 hours i do pvp and pve and i enjoy both i think what has cost this game now will get fixed later on we have to remember people will returne with new content and when tings like world pvp and other tools are put into the game they want but these posts of doom and gloom all the time are just sad to see when the game is so new this happens in every new mmo:p

 

This game is always compeared to wow i have played wow for 1 hour hated it and stoped playing i have played this for a few months and still enjoy it

As for thos players saying that there is only lvl 50 content the reson for this is its so god dam easy to lvl in this game if u subed for 3 months played only 2 hours a day then u should have at least 2 lvl 50 toons easy and i mean easy

 

As for one players saying the costs of things skils mods removing ect that it makes the game a coin grind this is not true either money is so easy to make in starwas just killing mobs and selling the crap they drop makes u poleanty of creds

the game is fine just needs cross server lfg tools for raids ect and pvp and some real pvp on a new planet made just for it this way they can create planets for the purpose of pvp war in real conflict zones with pvp rewards and the pve people can leave them alone

Edited May 11, 2012 by TheLordMagnus

[Malstrades]

sub loss is due to BW and their lazyness.

[Rzacron]

Ok so the casuals quit, can I get some damned sand for my box now please?

[Igeigthyeight]

I am sure I am not alone on this one but as a former Pre-CU and NGE SWG player from day one until the CU, I have to say that this game is not what I expected at all. I know SWG had issues and instead of spending the resources in fixing it, perfecting it etc. They (SOE) destroyed it. Nuf said not going to whine about it. Maybe this would be a good idea for this game. Destroy what it is now and redesign with some well designed space interaction likened to what Jump to Light Speed attempted to achieve. A flight simulator sounds boring but make an environment for the most part targeted toward PVP and you can also have PVE areas in safe pockets here and there. EVE online does this and it has a very good player base. For goodness sake make the game actually feel like Star Wars and that means like many others have said, make it a big giant sandbox and let the players have some agency. I was so seriously let down when I got to the point where I had a ship, I was like "Uh I am paying a monthly fee for Star Wars Starfighter revisited?"

 

I know there is allot that needs to be fixed but the Space part of this game reworked into something worth playing would keep subscribers playing hopefully long enough to fix the rest of the game. I am not a hardcore gamer, or at least I am not into PVP except for games that actually require skill and not a macro or script to ensure a win. I am more than casual and I have been around a long time in the MMO genre of gaming. As it stands I am not seeing a very bright future for this game even though as Yoda said " Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. "

I hope I am wrong about this, I want to be wrong about this. I actually care for a well crafted game worthy of the Star Wars franchise.

[Eszi]

Casuals are the cancer of gaming.

[joeypesci]

Well in a way the way TOR is set up almost hurts casuals.

 

I finally finished a year at college, didn't have that much time to grind for BM gear, although I could care less about the "OMG GET BM GEAR YOU NOOB!!!!!" comments (I just ignore and move on), for those who actually take comments like that to heart, I could imagine a "What's the point" type of feeling forming for some. Pretty much we run on a "You need gear X or Y or I won't help you!" attitude. At least we got recruit gear now.

 

There was also the over-hype with everyone expecting TOR ot have all the quality and skill of a 10 year old MMO .

 

Anyone who's like that in game I put on ignore. Especially the ones in warzones.

[Seyance]

My opinion, its the hardcore gamers that are leaving, they blew through their content for lvling and since its not a fully developed MMO they ran out of things to do. Now what we have is servers that are lite on population and people quitting because of that. I think if they merged servers or did cross server ques for pvp and pve things would be different.

 

^^^^

 

Other than leveling characters, I am stuck at fleet spamming for a group. "Most" of the time the server is light, it spikes to standard during primetime saturday then goes back to light. I would not consider myself a casual but I am not a hardcore beat on the door of BW wanting a new op player either.