Subs down 25%

[Celticprince]

Actually... not true. A company is in their rights to put in their User's Agreement that those that agree on the terms also agree on never saying anything on their own message boards that can harm their brand. No court will deny a company the right to police that in a service they themselves create in their own web forums. If EA would work to block websites they do not own to not allow critics, that would be violating them rights.

 

Just because you have the freedom of speech, does not mean you have the freedom to walk into the White House and tell the President he is a *****hole without expecting to be respectfully removed from said White House. Same thing with a forum controlled by the developers of a game.

 

The fact that EA/Bioware does not do this, regardless of their right to do so, says more about them than whiners and haters want to admit.

 

hence why i said handled just right. i would like to direct everyones attention to this

 

We definitely want the forums to be a welcoming place for people to discuss the game, but we also understand that people do have lots of feedback that they want to share with us, and that some of that feedback is going to be negative. We do work to encourage constructive criticism (and often close threads that are not constructive), but we also don't want to close everything that says something negative. We're always reading the forums and gathering feedback to pass along. All constructive feedback and discussion does have a place here, and we hope that everyone in the community can respect others' opinions - even if they differ from your own.

 

Our Community Representatives work hard to help keep the forums clean and to keep threads and posts within the rules, but it is very, very helpful if community members use the "flag" feature to report anything that breaks the rules. This brings it to our attention quickly so the Community Representatives can address it. If someone is breaking the rules, we encourage you to flag the post and move on, and we'll take care of it! Just flagging and not responding in kind helps keep flaming and other unconstructive posts off the forums.

 

Gota give bioware props.

[Tenceriker]

This threads only purpose is to feed the ugly forum trolls who can't wait for a news like this to crawl out of their caves.

 

As for SWTOR and this loss of subs, i see it as something perfectly normal, subscription numbers will always fluctuate and it will undoubtedly rise in the future.

The game itself is great, far better than anything competition has to offer in my opinion but it does have it's share of problems at the moment.

As soon as some of those problems get sorted out, when they implement group finder and once free transfers kick in the number of subs will rise vastly.

 

Seeing as how these "players" are paying customers they might just be, *gasp* disgruntled customers who have every right be be angry. It also would have helped Bioware if they didn't lie about the sub numbers leading up to yesterday knowing they will get busted out each and every quarterly report. There are a number of things missing from this game and I hate to break it to you but all the free transfers in the world won't cause this game's subs rise. The reason they declined has far more to be with the content available and customer's expectations than anything else. Patch 1.2 has shown that not even a "jesus" patch can save a flawed concept.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Tenceriker

[Catdaddyy]

Actually the actual number of subscribers isn't important to BW/EA. It's number of subscribers they expected to have.

 

Somewhere at EA there is a projection of TOR subscribers for the next few years. If they cannot hit those numbers in the eyes of EA it can be considered a failure. So if that number is a steady 1.0 million not much cause for alar, if it's 2.0 million and expected to increase the rest of the year..problem..

[Vlacke]

Seeing as how these "players" are paying customers they might just be, *gasp* disgruntled customers who have every right be be angry. It also would have helped Bioware if they didn't lie about the sub numbers leading up to yesterday knowing they will get busted out each and every quarterly report. There are a number of things missing from this game and I hate to break it to you but all the free transfers in the world won't cause this game's subs rise. The reason they declined has far more to be with the content available and customer's expectations than anything else. Patch 1.2 has shown that not even a "jesus" patch can save a flawed concept.

 

You have been spilling venom on these forums from the beginning and yet you still pay sub, play and always post, so if those disgruntled customers are anything like yourself then this game has nothing to worry about.

[cbauga]

Actually the actual number of subscribers isn't important to BW/EA. It's number of subscribers they expected to have.

 

Somewhere at EA there is a projection of TOR subscribers for the next few years. If they cannot hit those numbers in the eyes of EA it can be considered a failure. So if that number is a steady 1.0 million not much cause for alar, if it's 2.0 million and expected to increase the rest of the year..problem..

 

Exactly.

[Goretzu]

Actually... not true. A company is in their rights to put in their User's Agreement that those that agree on the terms also agree on never saying anything on their own message boards that can harm their brand. No court will deny a company the right to police that in a service they themselves create in their own web forums. If EA would work to block websites they do not own to not allow critics, that would be violating them rights.

 

Just because you have the freedom of speech, does not mean you have the freedom to walk into the White House and tell the President he is a *****hole without expecting to be respectfully removed from said White House. Same thing with a forum controlled by the developers of a game.

 

The fact that EA/Bioware does not do this, regardless of their right to do so, says more about them than whiners and haters want to admit.

 

 

 

Any company that deletes posts simply because the contain criticism doens't need to worry about freedom of speech or anything else because they'll be bankrupt before long.

 

Sensible companies do what Bioware do, limit it to a number of threads on a topic.

 

This is sensible not only in a PR sense, but also in a developement sense, because the do need to know what isn't going down well.

 

 

All blanket censorship would do is whip up a media, internet and player storm that would likely blow out of all proportion and cost many, many subs.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Goretzu

[Devlonir]

Any company that deletes posts simply because the contain criticism doens't need to worry about freedom of speech or anything else because they'll be bankrupt before long.

 

Sensible companies do what Bioware do, limit it to a number of threads on a topic.

 

This is sensible not only in a PR sense, but also in a developement sense, because the do need to know what isn't going down well.

 

All blanket censorship would do is whip up a media, internet and player storm that would likely blow out of all proportion and cost many, many subs.

 

For once, I agree 100% with you

 

My point was just that someone claimed deleting posts from the forum was breaking freedom of speech, and that is just hilariously wrong. It is marketing suicide though, I agree with that.

[Gunarson]

I had to lol at all the people who made posts here that there was no population decrease last months.

 

So basically 400k people left and this number might still be optimistic because there are players like me who are playing on the 30 day free gift. I won't pay a monthly sub for this game any longer. It's not a bad game on itself, just way overpriced for what we got.

[BJWyler]

That being said, besides a few servers like The Fatman, The Harbinger, Canderous Ordo, far too many servers feel empty. Server merges would be the BEST solution, but I now hear they will have paid server xfers...really?...REALLY?

There will both paid and free transfers. The free transfers will be to servers that Bioware chooses for the destination. You will only have to pay for the transfer if you want to pick a server other than what is on Bioware’s destination list.

 

 

BioWare simply doesn't care. EA is their parent company. They make bad business decisions when it comes to game quality. As long as it sells...

Uhh, what? BW/EA want money (“As long as it sells…”). In order to make money, they need to make a product that people want to spend money on. In order to make a product that people want spend money on they need to make a quality product. In order to make a quality product, they need to care about the product and the quality they put into it.

 

Your logic, sir, is what caused Vulcan to explode in that craptastic movie from that other space IP.

 

 

My post was correct as stated, quote below;

 

John Riccitiello - Electronic Arts Inc. - CEO

That was me that made the comment a number of different times. What I basically said is 0.5 million subs, we could break even at the margin. 1 million subs would be meaningfully profitable, but nothing to write home about. It certainly would not make us feel good about the investments to date.

 

Thanks, saw that after my post in this thread (still catching up). Is there an article or link you could share to this quote, I am interested in reading more if possible.

 

 

I absolutely disagree. There need to be both server merges and transfers. There need to be server merges because people have multiple characters at 50, why because of something BioWare did (diluting the server poupluation too mcuh during the first month) should they have to pay to move all of the characters they have put time into? Additionally many people don't really care what the name of the server they play on is, they care about rule set (PVE, PVE, etc), time zone, and population. Merges address the need for this and keep players guilds and alts all on the same server. Additionally if everyone transfers off a server why keep it open and running? That just costs BioWare money.

Good, perhaps some productive debate here. I think mergers will be unnecessary with targeted transfers. Naturally, with transfers, the goal would be to shut down or re-purpose the unused servers, which would indeed save money. Server Mergers, I think, are a short term solution. I think the game is still going to decrease in the sub range, so a merged server still might end up “dead” a few months down the line. With Transfers, they can kill the lightest 10-20% of the servers, saving overhead in the process, and suitable beef up the Standard pop servers to a long-term healthy level.

 

Again, you will only have to pay for a transfer if you want to transfer to a server not on BW’s destination list. I think the list will be large enough to accommodate all players, without having the need to put the healthy servers (like Fatman) on the list. It seemed to work quite well for the APAC transfers – they just need time to automate and debug the system for the rest of us.

 

This place is a veritable warehouse of misinformation, posted by people that have no clue or education in matters being discussed, but simply throw nonsense statements paraded as fact.

 

The entirety of the statement above is absolutely, unequivocal false, as is much of the rest of the nonsense being blathered about.

 

I'm not going to waste my time explaining, but if you go back about 8 pages or so there was a lengthy posting by an analyst, that was totally ignored by virtually everyone, but did explain exactly how the market works and why most people should just stop posting in this thread.

 

Ahh the wonderful illogic of the gaming community. It went largely ignored because there is no room for rational thought on a game forum and quite frankly, the treatise was probably beyond the comprehension of most people. It’s the result of the “Nike Generation” – don’t think about it, just do it if it makes you feel good. Obviously a lot of people feel good spouting out nonsense – on both sides.

 

 

BJ

Edited May 8, 2012 by BJWyler

[setablaze]

Electronic Arts' (EA-Q 14.26 -0.87 -5.78%) adjusted profit fell in the fourth quarter and it lost 400,000 subscribers of "Star Wars: The Old Republic" in the quarter, dealing a blow to efforts to rely on the new game for future growth and sending the game maker's shares down about 10 percent.

 

So here's the dilemma that faced execs, merge servers which will hurt public perception of the game and possibly share value but have happier players, or don't merge them to keep share holders happy and stock prices up, but anger your players.

 

Well, idiot execs, you got both. Subs are way down, stock is hurting and what is the official reply of EA?

 

(EA) is pleased with the stability of the game, but it wants to drive the subscriber base up with the release of two content expansion packs this quarter.

 

Bleed more money out of existing players ... Those of you still playing, just remember that keeping share holders happy and profits up are EA's concern, not you.

[harry_kpotter]

People seem to be too concerned about financials of EA and other irrelevant stuff. the game can be good with even 200k players if BW stops ruining everything. 30 players online at peak hours does not an MMO make. Fix population and go from there.

[Tenceriker]

You have been spilling venom on these forums from the beginning and yet you still pay sub, play and always post, so if those disgruntled customers are anything like yourself then this game has nothing to worry about.

 

Not one to research are you? If you weren't a bandwagoner you would see there was a gradual shift in my posts from pre-launch to launch to now. As for my posting, I have been unsubbed for months now, just have a lot of game time from when I was a rabid fanboy like yourself.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Tenceriker

[jarjarloves]

So here's the dilemma that faced execs, merge servers which will hurt public perception of the game and possibly share value but have happier players, or don't merge them to keep share holders happy and stock prices up, but anger your players.

 

Well, idiot execs, you got both. Subs are way down, stock is hurting and what is the official reply of EA?

 

 

 

Bleed more money out of existing players ... Those of you still playing, just remember that keeping share holders happy and profits up are EA's concern, not you.

 

Thats easy you do what they are planning to do which is free transfers. That way you dont shut down servers and you can just say its to balance out the factions to make it more fair

[Stalkobot]

Any company that deletes posts simply because the contain criticism doens't need to worry about freedom of speech or anything else because they'll be bankrupt before long.

 

Sensible companies do what Bioware do, limit it to a number of threads on a topic.

 

This is sensible not only in a PR sense, but also in a developement sense, because the do need to know what isn't going down well.

 

 

All blanket censorship would do is whip up a media, internet and player storm that would likely blow out of all proportion and cost many, many subs.

 

Sadly this is not the case, the other SW MMO developers, SOE, merrily deleted any dissenting posts and banned the posters subsequently post NGE to try and stem the firestorm.

[ISTrick]

Are we even sure that ''free months'' is included in active subs ?

 

Because even if the average EA investor might not be much into games themselves, I kinda suspect that such a crude manipulation to pad numbers would cause massive backlash.

I doubt it does include those subscriptions (unless they have paid time after the free month owing perhaps?).

[Jederix]

I'm not sure we've seen a subs number low yet, I suspect it will still dip below the 1,000,000 mark no matter what, as things stand (SWTOR is running about 50% retention from box sales atm which is still pretty good).

 

But equally if things are done well then there is no reason why they could not start to go back up (a space expansion for example would both expand the game and attract old and new players).

 

 

Rift sorted itself out, merged server, regrouped and in now growing again, SWTOR has much more potential than that (on the other hand Warhammer Online had tons of potential, but was hit by bad decision after bad decision which just murdered it ).

 

Rift didn't merge servers. They allowed for transfers, then closed servers once everyone moved. This is not a merger.

 

You won't get mergers here either. They will follow the Rift model. Mergers are a messy business, just ask Warhammer Online.

 

So let's stop this merge server drivvel that everyone keeps spewing. You aren't getting them. And judging by all the chicken littles in this thread, the sub base needs to shrink a little more.

[Vlacke]

Not one to research are you? If you weren't a bandwagoner you would see there was a gradual shift in my posts from pre-launch to launch to now. As for my posting, I have been unsubbed for months now, just have a lot of game time from when I was a rabid fanboy like yourself.

 

I'm looking at things from a realistic perspective, it's much better really than to be angry and full of hate toward the game and people who like it which is the attitude you are presenting here.

[noladev]

Pick pick pick pick. Moan moan moan moan. This is the most cherry picking Chicken Littling unrealistically hyperbolic group I've seen for a long time. Compare/contrast. Step back, be objective. Numbers are numbers, people, and they don't lie. 24% is well above the typical MMO trend from launch out, when most other MMOs are at 50% or more at 6 months.

 

But you'll probably continue to ignore that and try to pull that sky down just to prove you're right.

 

Anyway. See you all in a year when subs have trended upwards.

 

Wow. Strap your kneepads on next time eh?

[Vlacke]

So let's stop this merge server drivvel that everyone keeps spewing. You aren't getting them. And judging by all the chicken littles in this thread, the sub base needs to shrink a little more.

 

Agreed.

[BJWyler]

So here's the dilemma that faced execs, merge servers which will hurt public perception of the game and possibly share value but have happier players, or don't merge them to keep share holders happy and stock prices up, but anger your players.

 

Well, idiot execs, you got both. Subs are way down, stock is hurting and what is the official reply of EA?

 

 

 

Bleed more money out of existing players ... Those of you still playing, just remember that keeping share holders happy and profits up are EA's concern, not you.

 

EA's stock has little to do with the success or failure of this game. SWTOR will neither make nor break EA. In terms of the content patches, it was confirmed in the other thread I believe to be referring to the 1.3 and 1.4 updates that will be coming this year, and not the retail expansion packs that we normally associate with the term.

 

Quite obviously EA cares about the stockholders more - again their profit margin lies on more than just one game. It's the same for any Publicly traded entity.

 

BJ

Edited May 8, 2012 by BJWyler

[solidkjames]

So here's the dilemma that faced execs, merge servers which will hurt public perception of the game and possibly share value but have happier players, or don't merge them to keep share holders happy and stock prices up, but anger your players.

 

Well, idiot execs, you got both. Subs are way down, stock is hurting and what is the official reply of EA?

 

 

 

Bleed more money out of existing players ... Those of you still playing, just remember that keeping share holders happy and profits up are EA's concern, not you.

 

They aren't charging the players for the patches. They are content patches this quarter not expansions that you pay for so the cost isn't any greater to you than it would have been.

 

I just feel sorry for a lot of the people that post in the forums. It's like your lives are so pathetic that you find pleasure in seeing others fail. It's a common problem in online gaming and it follows from game to game. If you don't like something don't play it, plain and simple. This game has it's flaws but overall 1.3 million people are still paying for it SO something must be fun about it. If you are one of those 1.3 million and you hate the game then just do us a favor and quit already, stop posting in the forums and move on to a game you like. If you can't be a part of the solution then most likely you are the problem.

[noladev]

It's a 58% drop. 25% suddenly doesn't look so bad, eh?

 

24% was in one quarter WITH a free month added to keep subs "active". I for instance have cancelled but still have 101 days left. Hell, I might even give them a sub stat on their next quarterly report.

 

Game is going down. Thank 1.2

[Dawgtide]

Actually the actual number of subscribers isn't important to BW/EA. It's number of subscribers they expected to have.

 

Somewhere at EA there is a projection of TOR subscribers for the next few years. If they cannot hit those numbers in the eyes of EA it can be considered a failure. So if that number is a steady 1.0 million not much cause for alar, if it's 2.0 million and expected to increase the rest of the year..problem..

 

Exactly. Actual returns don't lead future value, it is expected returns. That is what the shareholders are basing their thoughts on. You hit it pretty much spot on. There will always be a drop in subscribers. Especially from the PVP crowd as they have been known to jump pretty quickly. I think Bioware has been banking on their PVE crowd with the stories. The $24 question is what were there expected subs 6 months in as they probably expected a certain number of PVEers that roleplay? That we do not know..

Edited May 8, 2012 by Dawgtide

[asbalana]

Not one to research are you? If you weren't a bandwagoner you would see there was a gradual shift in my posts from pre-launch to launch to now. As for my posting, I have been unsubbed for months now, just have a lot of game time from when I was a rabid fanboy like yourself.

 

I understand since I have gone through the same cycle. I hardly post anymore because I don't like being negative,

 

In the end, swtor should have been great and perhaps been a WOW killer. But it is just too flawed and broken in major MMO concept and in implementation and imo that is the actual reason that people are leaving on the whole. .

 

The server pop issue is a chicken and egg discussion to me. Are servers empty because a lot of people are leaving or playing significantly less or are people leaving because servers are empty? It seems to be a downward spriral.

 

As far as the EA comment to the effect that casuals / new player types are leaving and core players are staying, my experience is exactly the opposite. My wife is a new player who is still in the new to MMOs and the just loving it stage while I am pretty much a core player. I would unsub in a minute but she is still enjoying herself and we love playing together. Even so, we both have discussed going over to WOW and are looking at new launches because even as a rank newbee, she has a number of frustrations with the game in spite of the fact that it still has the "new car smell" to her.

 

I believe that SWTOR will be remembered as the game that could have been and should have been, but never was.

 

I think that subs will continue to decline with blips along the way, but overall will show a downward trend until it stablizes at some point. I have no idea where that will be, but feel that it will be at a level that disappoints all but the most rabid fan boys and girls.

[Goretzu]

Rift didn't merge servers. They allowed for transfers, then closed servers once everyone moved. This is not a merger.

 

You won't get mergers here either. They will follow the Rift model. Mergers are a messy business, just ask Warhammer Online.

 

So let's stop this merge server drivvel that everyone keeps spewing. You aren't getting them. And judging by all the chicken littles in this thread, the sub base needs to shrink a little more.

 

 

 

They must have merged some servers they have many less server than release now don't they?

 

 

Warhammer didn't merge until far too late, but the time they did it everyone has left due to low pops.