Diminishing Returns > Resolve System

[Xandarous]

The stun system in this game is completely wack. Diminishing returns is the only system that prevents someone from getting chained over and over again.

 

I know people hate to compare...but World of Warcraft did it correct with the DR system.

[pwnshoppe]

i approve this message.

[Romanticyde]

The stun system in this game is completely wack. Diminishing returns is the only system that prevents someone from getting chained over and over again.

 

I know people hate to compare...but World of Warcraft did it correct with the DR system.

 

so getting stunned twice, then being immune to it... is worse than getting stunned 10-15 times by different stuns for full duration... pro logic

[DarthMikesta]

so getting stunned twice, then being immune to it... is worse than getting stunned 10-15 times by different stuns for full duration... pro logic

 

Um... Pretty sure OP is saying the exact opposite of what you think he is.

[Xandarous]

so getting stunned twice, then being immune to it... is worse than getting stunned 10-15 times by different stuns for full duration... pro logic

 

You have no idea what diminishing returns does do you? Hard stuns in WoW all share a diminishing return. This prevents a player from losing control of their character from full HP to dead. Eventually you become immune to stuns with that system just stuns will have a shorter duration as you get hit by them.

 

Granted, a system like this will need to be adjusted for Star Wars, but it is far better than taking full duration stuns back to back.

[kweassa]

Um... Pretty sure OP is saying the exact opposite of what you think he is.

 

Then the OP has never seen how long one can stay controlled within a DR system.

[DarthMikesta]

Then the OP has never seen how long one can stay controlled within a DR system.

 

 

Oh actually you're right, I misunderstood what the first guy I quoted was saying

[kweassa]

You have no idea what diminishing returns does do you? Hard stuns in WoW all share a diminishing return. This prevents a player from losing control of their character from full HP to dead. Eventually you become immune to stuns with that system just stuns will have a shorter duration as you get hit by them.

 

Granted, a system like this will need to be adjusted for Star Wars, but it is far better than taking full duration stuns back to back.

 

Actually, you have no idea how a DR system works in WoW, where DR is shared only amongs the same type of CC.

 

Therefore, against a very clever player using a rogue, it is not uncommon to be stunned 10+ seconds at a time, repeatedly. The whack to the head before engagment alone can last more than 10 seconds straight with 3 applications, and then when the fight actually starts powers like cheap shot or kidney all deals almost full durations, which is like another 6~10 seconds.

 

On average people lose control far more often and far longer durations under DR. The base duration of each CC is much longer than SWTOR, which is the reason why they made DR in the first place.

[HoosierDuke]

The stun system in this game is completely wack. Diminishing returns is the only system that prevents someone from getting chained over and over again.

 

I know people hate to compare...but World of Warcraft did it correct with the DR system.

 

Uhhh NO!

[Xandarous]

I know how the WoW system works. I know CC is separated into types. What I am saying is the HARD STUNS, aka the ones that do not break on damage, are what people and myself are complaining about.

 

The fact that you can be taking damage and not be able to do anything about for such a long period of time needs to change. Even the WoW system is not perfect. All CC should share a diminishing return, but that the fact is back to back stuns is just bad juju.

[ChaosDogg]

I know how the WoW system works. I know CC is separated into types. What I am saying is the HARD STUNS, aka the ones that do not break on damage, are what people and myself are complaining about.

 

The fact that you can be taking damage and not be able to do anything about for such a long period of time needs to change. Even the WoW system is not perfect. All CC should share a diminishing return, but that the fact is back to back stuns is just bad juju.

 

It should work better in SWTOR than wow because there's less cc types in SWTOR: stun/mez/root/knockback

 

Compared to fear,disorient, scatter effect, controlled stun, random stun, controlled root, random root, silence, cyclone, horror (long cds on these though),

[pwnshoppe]

Actually, you have no idea how a DR system works in WoW, where DR is shared only amongs the same type of CC.

 

Therefore, against a very clever player using a rogue, it is not uncommon to be stunned 10+ seconds at a time, repeatedly. The whack to the head before engagment alone can last more than 10 seconds straight with 3 applications, and then when the fight actually starts powers like cheap shot or kidney all deals almost full durations, which is like another 6~10 seconds.

 

On average people lose control far more often and far longer durations under DR. The base duration of each CC is much longer than SWTOR, which is the reason why they made DR in the first place.

 

Apparently you haven't dealt with an op who can keep you 100% stunned so you can never cap a node, while remaining in stealth.

[ChaosDogg]

Apparently you haven't dealt with an op who can keep you 100% stunned so you can never cap a node, while remaining in stealth.

 

lol ye, sin does the same thing. For those that don't know it's because it takes 8 seconds to cap and the second sap is also full which puts you on white bar resolve, when you almost your cap you can be resapped.

[DarthVallik]

current system + 4 seconds of immunity from root/mez/stuj after each application

 

stun 4 seconds of fighting root 4 seconds of fighting mez full resolve

 

also stops getting double stunned but still allows classes that need stuns ect to be able to function

[Screttle]

I know how the WoW system works. I know CC is separated into types. What I am saying is the HARD STUNS, aka the ones that do not break on damage, are what people and myself are complaining about.

 

The fact that you can be taking damage and not be able to do anything about for such a long period of time needs to change. Even the WoW system is not perfect. All CC should share a diminishing return, but that the fact is back to back stuns is just bad juju.

 

so all stuns should break on damage...? completely making most skills pointless. so you want to make people use less skills and make the game easier coz you cant live through a chain stun, stick with someone in pvp and u will be much better off.

[Saltydogg]

The stun system in this game is completely wack. Diminishing returns is the only system that prevents someone from getting chained over and over again.

 

I know people hate to compare...but World of Warcraft did it correct with the DR system.

 

Well I am sorry to say but BW doesnt care. This topic keeps comming up time and time again. I have made god knows how many posts about it. Hey its just one more reason why the majority of you pvp community is leaving this game. As soon as these other games hit you will see the population drop even further. The resolve system is total fail because you can still be stunned and cc'ed even at a full white bar. Anyway good luck because you are going to get alot of flame about how this system is great and you just need to learn how to use your cc break

[Xandarous]

so all stuns should break on damage...? completely making most skills pointless. so you want to make people use less skills and make the game easier coz you cant live through a chain stun, stick with someone in pvp and u will be much better off.

 

You need to brush up on reading comprehension. I am not asking for stuns to break on damage. I am asking for stuns to have diminishing returns. That means back to back stuns last on you for shorter and shorter durations and it takes a certain duration for stuns to take full duration on you once you have been stunned. In wow it is I believe 10 or 20 seconds. Has been awhile since I played.

[kweassa]

I know how the WoW system works. I know CC is separated into types. What I am saying is the HARD STUNS, aka the ones that do not break on damage, are what people and myself are complaining about.

 

The fact that you can be taking damage and not be able to do anything about for such a long period of time needs to change. Even the WoW system is not perfect. All CC should share a diminishing return, but that the fact is back to back stuns is just bad juju.

 

Basic/Classic WoW Rogue combat flow during team fight situations under DR:

 

* [out of combat] - Sap 8 seconds - Sap 4 seconds - Sap 2 seconds + [combat] Cheap Shot 4 seconds - [Kidney Shot] 3 seconds ....

 

A total of 21 seconds spent under control, among them 7 seconds hard stun. This isn't even counting advanced combat management where the rogue player takes into account the DR reset timer, goes into Vanish and restarts the whole cycle.

 

Compare that to the simple rule of "two controls will give you immunity" in SWTOR, and the maximum duration of 8 seconds for back to back hard stuns, and then tell me DR makes more sense.

 

/closing argument

[khouj]

Op, seriously? When people complain about stuns on these forums what they are half the time talking about disables which break on damage. With BOTH stuns and disables, a dr system like wow's only allows you to be cc'd for longer than the resolve system.

 

Playing against cc heavy teams in arena during tbc it was standard to eat 20+ seconds of cc, and good teams routinely cc'd people for 30 seconds.. After this ended, the DR for stuns themselves can still be untouched, LOL.

 

In vanilla wow, a naked hemo specced rogue could literally stunlock people 100-0 over the course of 90 seconds using two blinds, saps, and cs+ks. 90 seconds, literally.

 

How exactly would a DR system do what all the people crying about 'stunzzzzzz' want?

 

Edit: I also want to point out for the first 6-7 years of wow's existence the standard opener for rogues was cs>ks, which is 10 seconds of stun, already longer than what is possible in swtor (talking about STUNS, not disables). Additionally, in swtor no class can stun someone for longer than 5.5s, it requires two people to get the max 8 seconds. In early wow it was even common to gouge after the CS, making the standard 1v1 opener ~15 seconds long.

Edited May 4, 2012 by khouj

[DarthVallik]

How exactly would a DR system do what all the people crying about 'stunzzzzzz' want?

 

dr isn't going to work when dps classes can kill people in under 10 seconds easily

 

a short immunity coupled with the current system the the only answer IMO (and make roots be effected by resolve)

 

maybe even add 10 seconds of immunity after your stun break to use it to prevent stuns

[namelless]

I haven't played wow in a long time, since 06 or so, but i recall fear lasting 9 seconds as a 'hard stun' and then you'd get out of it only to be feared again for 6 seconds.

 

In swtor 'hard stuns' last 4 seconds and two stuns fill up your resolve bar. Honestly, i think the resolve system works, it seems to me what most of you are complaining about is being stunlock killed which is more a problem with damage output being too high.

Edited May 4, 2012 by namelless

[lpsmash]

There are not enough CCs and not enough different types of it to warrant a system like diminishing returns.

 

Also, how do you DR knockbacks? They are prevalent in SW:TOR, but I can't imagine a "half distance" knockback as anything efficient or even predictable (as to where the target would land), nor can I fathom the game without it building some kind of immunity (since there are so many of them and they are immensly powerful on some maps).

 

The DR system is also very unintuitive. You either need to count when it resets or you need an addon keeping track of it in WoW. A white bar under nameplate does the job better to warn others that the player is immune to crowd control.

 

Finally, stuns don't last long enough to justify a DR. Two seconds stun is worthless. You can't even use an activated ability without fear of being interrupted if you stun defensively.

 

One solution might be boosting the amount of resolve a stun gives..

Edited May 4, 2012 by lpsmash

[khouj]

dr isn't going to work when dps classes can kill people in under 10 seconds easily

 

a short immunity coupled with the current system the the only answer IMO (and make roots be effected by resolve)

 

maybe even add 10 seconds of immunity after your stun break to use it to prevent stuns

Rogues could kill cloth wearers in as little as 1s after leaving stealth if they used no cc abilities (2shot with rogues 1s gcd) for the first x years of wow. Actually letting one hit you with a 3rd or 4th global was just lazy.

 

Sure swtor isn't wow, but complaining people sometimes die in under 10s is really not realistic, and actually pretty funny. Asking for 10s of cc immunity after using your breaker, and an average time to kill of 15s or whatever is completely hilarious..

 

But I agree about all the roots which ignore resolve, maybe they are a problem.

[Sabredance]

I prefer Resolve above Diminishing Returns.

 

Just some small tweaks.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Sabredance

[Wikar]

SWTOR:

- First stun (4s)- use "pvp trinket" - Second stun (4s) - immune = Stunned for 4s

- First stun (4s)- don't use "pvp trinket" - Second stun (4s) - use "pvp trinket" - immune = Stunned for 4s

 

WoW:

- First stun (4s)- use "pvp trinket" - Second stun (2s) - immune = Stunned for 2s

- First stun (4s)- don't use "pvp trinket" - Second stun (2s) - use "pvp trinket" - immune = Stunned for 4s

 

 

Different DRs can be a mess (and probaly still) in WoW, look at how many changes was to put different things in a one DR (like polymorph and ring of frost, two absolutly different effects put in one DR cathegory to keep things balanced).

 

But from a point of a hard stuns with no chances to fight back (this cathegory is generating most PvP-rage about CC), WoW in a BETTER spot, than SWTOR.

 

CCing in SWTOR PvP is used 70% of the time STUN effect (which EVERYONE have, but Marauders), and other 30% are knockbacks/roots (why 30%? just because not everyone have them and they are annoing only melee classes most of the time).

 

So, it looks kind of ridiculous, but i prefer DR system in SWTOR and Resolve system in WoW (to put all this CC ***** just in one bar, to be immune after second ones and not stay here for 1+ minute in CC chain Sap-Fear-Poly-Stun-MC-Trap-Cyclone-repeat.