Assault Spec vs. Snipers

[Denogginized]

Hey guys, I am a level 50 vanguard and I am currently specd 2/8/31. I do very well against all classes, but I have been having an incredibly tough time with snipers. Should I be able to compete against this class? It doesn't matter if they are in recruit gear, they still just destroy my vangaurd in half war hero augmented oranges. I have to be doing something wrong, I just don't know what I am doing incorrectly.

 

My basic fight goes as follows:

 

30M out- incendiary round

30M out - assault plastique

20M out (after running to close the gap a bit) High Impact Bolt

10-4M out (or before I get knocked back and rooted) Ion Pulse/Stockstrike to get free reset high impact bolt.

 

After this im basically rooted/cc'd and take an incredible amount of damage and usually am forced to run away or just say screw it and stick it out to see who kills who first (and it rarely ends with my damage out damaging his.

 

Please someone help me I really am getting frustrated with this match up.

[Philosomanic]

A well-played Sniper is the hardest class for us to take down. That doesn't mean it's impossible, just tricky. Few things to consider:

 

If you try to fight them range v range, you'll lose. You have to get into melee. However, cover makes them immune to Harpoon, which is our easy gap closer. The trick is to get them to leave cover. The easiest way to do this is by hiding behind a pillar until they get up to move, then harpooning them in. You can also use Cryo Grenade (which breaks cover) and then Harpoon, but I prefer to save my stuns. However, be sure they don't have their CC immunity up.

 

Also, quite a lot of Sniper skills have activation times. If you're good enough, you should be able to hide out of LOS, pop out long enough to use a skill, and then get back in LOS before they can attack you back. This will encourage them to move even more.

 

When you get into melee range, use your AoE stun on a skill called Ambush. It does really high damage and knocks you back. After that, use your second stun whenever seems best to you. You can probably figure out when to time it best.

[jboone]

My main is a sniper and, yes you should be having trouble against us. Snipers are the counter to Vanguards and Guardians. As has been said above, we are at our strongest in cover. We can't be stormed or harpooned and we get some very powerful defensive tools (ballistic shield, ballistic dampeners, entrench) and our cast times can only be interrupted by forcing us out of cover (riot strike is useless in other words). Just get us out of cover with a cryo grenade or LOS. Note that this only really effects MM snipers. Engineers or lethality snipers aren't nearly as dependent on cover as the marksmen spec. Edited May 3, 2012 by jboone

[exphryl]

It's a toss up. In an open encounter a sniper should always win against an Assault/Pyro. They have the proper defenses and cooldowns (on short timers) o make us feel relatively useless.

 

You can stun them and pull them (If they haven't hunkered down yet), but then you wasted your gap closer and you get knockback rooted as they build some distance and reset up.

 

If they have hunkered down, avoid them entirely until they move or their buff wears off.

 

Luckily most of the battleground provide LOS options to use (Pillars, Buildlings, etc) which you SHOULD be using against them. If you can face tank a sniper and come out on top as assault you are most likely facing a sniper that isn't using his abilities. Which I do find with this class it's more black and white on what's a good player compared to a not so good player.

 

If you do get knock-backed, and you have MV available that's a great time to use the ability. (I've started actually keeping my AOE available for when I know decent snipers are in a warzone. Sure, I waste some overall damage but it has a higher chance of keeping me alive if I get jumped)

[Keypek]

Nothing new to add really. If you run into them at max range in an open field you're pretty much screwed if they are any good. But luckily there really aren't any blatant open areas in WZs so exploit LoS. Don't let them dictate the battle. If they are set up in an impossible place to get to without running an entire 30m to them then let them sit behind their cover and twiddle their thumbs and go kill someone on their team being more useful. Edited May 4, 2012 by Keypek

[TheOpf]

Nothing new to add really. If you run into them at max range in an open field you're pretty much screwed if they are any good. But luckily there really aren't any blatant open areas in WZs so exploit LoS. Don't let them dictate the battle. If they are set up in an impossible place to get to without running an entire 30m to them then late them sit behind their cover and twiddle their thumbs and go kill someone on their team being more useful.

 

This or tell a stealth guy to go kill them. Leave the snipers to the Assassins, operatives, and Mercs. A good one will destroy you, and a bad one will get destroyed. The only time I kill a good one is when he isn't paying attention or someone else forced him to move, and I am able to pull him to me.

[Philosomanic]

This or tell a stealth guy to go kill them. Leave the snipers to the Assassins, operatives, and Mercs. A good one will destroy you, and a bad one will get destroyed. The only time I kill a good one is when he isn't paying attention or someone else forced him to move, and I am able to pull him to me.

 

This... mostly. Snipers are our counter-class, so it's not wise to take them on unless you can stack the odds in your favor. It's best to let stealth classes (which are incredibly well-suited to taking down Snipers, especially Shadows) handle them.

 

However, I do have to argue against using a Mercenary/Commando to counter a Gunslinger/Sniper. The sniper gets +20% ranged defense (which is of limited use, but still helps), a ranged interrupt, and immunity to CC. Additionally, the Sniper is going to have an edge in DPS. In a range v range fight, a Sniper should beat any other class.

[Hethroin]

This... mostly. Snipers are our counter-class, so it's not wise to take them on unless you can stack the odds in your favor. It's best to let stealth classes (which are incredibly well-suited to taking down Snipers, especially Shadows) handle them.

 

However, I do have to argue against using a Mercenary/Commando to counter a Gunslinger/Sniper. The sniper gets +20% ranged defense (which is of limited use, but still helps), a ranged interrupt, and immunity to CC. Additionally, the Sniper is going to have an edge in DPS. In a range v range fight, a Sniper should beat any other class.

 

A commando can cleanse all of the sniper's dots, can LOS to heal himself, and has a incoming DPS reduction cooldown that lasts 12 seconds to counter the sniper's DPS edge. 12 seconds is longer than the duration of a ranged, non-CC, fire-fight against a good DPS commando. So while the sniper might outpace the commando on a target dummy, in a DPS race where target is each other the commando pulls ahead.

 

Personally I do not have this sniper issue everyone else seems to have, though this is likely due to the fact that there are simply too few good ones at equal gear level on my server.

[TheOpf]

Personally I do not have this sniper issue everyone else seems to have, though this is likely due to the fact that there are simply too few good ones at equal gear level on my server.

 

Haha, There are 3-4 really good and geared on Ajunta Pall and that includes Republic Slingers. Most are too focused on staring straight ahead, that they let people back cap items or don't move when I open up with my Flame Thrower.

[Philosomanic]

A commando can cleanse all of the sniper's dots, can LOS to heal himself, and has a incoming DPS reduction cooldown that lasts 12 seconds to counter the sniper's DPS edge. 12 seconds is longer than the duration of a ranged, non-CC, fire-fight against a good DPS commando. So while the sniper might outpace the commando on a target dummy, in a DPS race where target is each other the commando pulls ahead.

 

Personally I do not have this sniper issue everyone else seems to have, though this is likely due to the fact that there are simply too few good ones at equal gear level on my server.

 

Good points with the commando. Personally, I'd still put my money on the Sniper, but they're definitely on at least even footing.

 

Also, most snipers are bad. I'm still not afraid to go after them in warzones, because I know that they're usually not as good at their class as I am at mine. Especially with cover, a lot of them get pretty bad tunnel vision. Once I get in melee range, suddenly I have the upper hand.

 

However, there are a few Snipers and Gunslingers that I've run into on my server that absolutely rip me apart. They stay in cover, pop CC immunity, and there is literally nothing I can do but LoS and run away. It seems like Snipers have a much harder learning curve, but they're very powerful when well-played. On my Shadow, I would rip most Gunslingers and Snipers apart. However, there was one Gunslinger I dueled that I could not get past 40% for the life of me, even after I did research and practiced against him over and over. It made me realize how bad the majority of Snipers and Gunslingers are.

[flem]

Good points with the commando. Personally, I'd still put my money on the Sniper, but they're definitely on at least even footing.

Seriously, they're not. Once you learn to play Slinger/Sniper, a tracer/grav user is dead meat 1v1 -- even when they start out with a first shot or two!

[thechimera]

Snipers are in serious need of a nerf, it's unacceptable to put out that much damage with such good CC AND survivability.

[Nydar]

Snipers are in serious need of a nerf, it's unacceptable to put out that much damage with such good CC AND survivability.

 

Snipers are only overpowered if the player is good, and I don't mean viable, i mean really OP, but most of them suck in the sub 50 bracket and I absolutely destroy them. I really think 1.2 was the worst patch ever for class balance.

[Debrad]

Agree with above. For every Sniper who just smash's you there are about 2 more who you will be able to beat consistently. It often comes down to the player.

[me_unknown]

Snipers are in serious need of a nerf, it's unacceptable to put out that much damage with such good CC AND survivability.

 

aha... because you have issues they are in need of a serious nerf?

don't expect that you specific specc is same viable against all other classes and builds. i do not see any reason for a nerf for snipers/gunslingers. especially not from a vanguard point of view!

 

i am still to see a sniper/vanguard beating me in a half way fair 1on1 (half way fair means slgiht advatage for him, not for me!). believe it or not but we have some damn good ones on our server, well of course not many but a few that are known around. and no, it is not due to my uber skills and also not my equip as the latter is only 2 pieces WH while most top gunslingers/snipers on our server already have nearly full wh already.

[Laforet]

its tought, but from time to time im able to beat some snipers. i find lethality snipers easier than full MM for some reason, but maybe i dont fight good lethality ones.

 

- you have to spec degauss. some people say that degauss is useless, its not. there are no useless skills, just useless players. if you spec degauss and use it when they knockback you tip the chances 30% in your favor.

 

- you must cc them to force trinket. when they use cc breaker they get outta cover and you can grapple. stay on top of them all the time. cyberthech grenade works like a charm if ure one.

 

- LOS is king against a sniper. if you LOS them they will have to move and redeploy, jump them (grapple) when they do that.

 

- positioning is prince against a sniper. stay back to a wall if possible.

 

- other than that, stay on top of them and blow everything. wait for them to cast that long ambush and neural surge. watch out for hunker down (sniper mirror) buff because when they do that they are immune to cc.

 

but yeah its a tought match. its harder than marauders, by far.

Edited May 8, 2012 by Laforet

[Hethroin]

After paying closer attention I have come to the conclusion that you're all imagining or at the very least overstating this issue. This may be a result of a gear disparity in the sniper's favor or you not being aware of him opening on you for the first 5 seconds of his attack chain. However, 1 v 1 with adequate preparation and all cooldowns available I cannot say I have had any problems with any snipers good, great, or supercalifradulous. They do kill me like butter when I'm on their healer 30m away with cooldowns spent, but when both of us are focused on each other and able to throw everything available at the opponent I don't seem to be able to find one that beats me. Edited May 8, 2012 by Hethroin

[ATango]

I dunno OP, I'm not seeing the use of the following,

Battle Focus

Cryo Grenade

Neural Surge

Adrenal

Reactive Shield

Tenacity

Harpoon

 

Need to keep in mind the use of defensive abilities is just as important as the use of offensive ones.

 

You may want to link us your spec if you are comfortable with doing so. It can be possible that you might be missing some vital pvp defensive talents in your spec.

[Sporticus]

I have much less issues as a full Assault Vanguard fighting snipers than I do fighting Marauders/Sents. I find the key (for me) is to get them out of cover and near me asap. Once I get AP and maybe IR on them, then grapple/cryo is close behind. For the good ones, I'll grapple them as soon as I see them if they aren't in cover.

 

Marauders with their cooldowns eat me alive. I have yet to figure out a good way to kite them, as I am permanently snared when I face them and eat too much damage if I try to reserve my CC for their immunity bubble.

[dcgregorya]

Use your damage over time abilities to wear them down while running around pillars. A marksman's main DPS rotation is going to be spamming series of shots with their reset skill. If they're not using their CC immunity animation hit them with a cryo at this point and harpoon them. Pop your defensive cooldown when they are halfway through casting ambush.

 

If you're both at range and spamming attacks a sniper should win (he's in his element, you're not). Make it your fight by breaking their line of sight and getting an HP advantage by burning them.

Edited May 11, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Krayshawn]

A well-played Sniper is the hardest class for us to take down. That doesn't mean it's impossible, just tricky. Few things to consider:

 

If you try to fight them range v range, you'll lose. You have to get into melee. However, cover makes them immune to Harpoon, which is our easy gap closer. The trick is to get them to leave cover. The easiest way to do this is by hiding behind a pillar until they get up to move, then harpooning them in. You can also use Cryo Grenade (which breaks cover) and then Harpoon, but I prefer to save my stuns. However, be sure they don't have their CC immunity up.

 

Also, quite a lot of Sniper skills have activation times. If you're good enough, you should be able to hide out of LOS, pop out long enough to use a skill, and then get back in LOS before they can attack you back. This will encourage them to move even more.

 

When you get into melee range, use your AoE stun on a skill called Ambush. It does really high damage and knocks you back. After that, use your second stun whenever seems best to you. You can probably figure out when to time it best.

 

our harpoon should work, its unfortunate. Harpoons add the same resolve as a KB but dont work the same ways i understand how it would be extremely OP in a lot of situations, but there's still a lot of situations where revisment is needed such as when i click to use my pull, it should add to their resolve right away and then maintain the pulls effect. what it does, for me any way, my harpoon has been shot boom people throw their stuns etc, now i cant pull them and my harpoon has been wasted. Yes they have no resolve when i use my bind.