Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

[Sporticus]

^^ This....my sub has 107 days left and is currently set to not renew. BW get it together, I would happily re-sub if i am having fun.

 

Oh lord, another one. If you want FPS type gameplay, play an FPS. What you guys are doing is equivalent to trying to get the rules of a team sport changed to suit you because you want to play but you feel that you are entitled to having the game changed so suit you.

[truchaos]

So, basically, you do not want any sort of coordination or teamwork in a team-based event. You do not want any class to support and/or enhance any other class' abilities. And you do not think that active forethought/effort/bonds of friendship should provide any meaningful role in an online gaming community.

 

The main thing I find that many of those who are anti-premade, strictly solo-queuers lack (or wish to avoid) is the weight of trust, accountability, and responsibility that goes with queue'ing with a group. It is far easier for them to write off their own mistakes, quitting out of a warzone, and/or sub-par overall effort when their 'team' is a random group of strangers that they will not have to face beyond the length of the warzone.

[Zellata]

Premades should only be queued vs other premades. Solo Q vs Solo Q.

The MMOelite groups/friends/families/guildies players pvp for competition/skill/pvp's sake right?

Or do they actually just want to roll random pugs for easy win and to gear up fast?

Once server merge/transfers are up, there should be no more excuses on premade vs premade complaining about queue taking too long hence why the need to vs random pugs/solo Q for "elite" group pvp.

 

It won't be us (premades) complaining about long queues, it will be you (solo players). In your scenario as long as you have 16 people in the premade v. premade queue (either 2 full groups if 8-player group is allowed, or 4 groups of 4 in the current setup), you're in business - those folks can just play each other non-stop all day long with instant queue pops, as they would leave wz at the same time, re-queue at roughly the same time, go into another wz. Solo players on the other hand will have serious issues with people missing the queue pop, doing something other than PvP, etc. If it was implemented tomorrow, I would expect premade v. premade queues to become slightly longer, but solo queues to become much, much longer than they are now.

 

Other than that little detail, I like the idea - at least I wouldn't see any more 12k-hp-all-green-gear lvl 50s on my team.

[Ghamsar]

If your thread is about synergy between classes, why is the thread titled how pre-mades ruin MMO's? The answer: You're just looking for a new topic to latch onto because your first one made you look bad.

 

In my OP I said synergy read again....I didn't change anything, i was only repeating what I already said because you seemed to have missed it.

 

Regardless, this claim is just as ridiculous ... those synergies aren't consciously placed there by devs, they occur NATURALLY as a consequence of certain styles of play being naturally well matched. The idea that they can be as easily removed indicates you don't really understand how those synergies occur in the first place. No, it doesn't screw up PVP any more than it screws up PVE. If there are synergies between classes, the way to address that is the same way to address the problem of people teaming in ... a teaming activity. if others are cashing in on those synergies, you need to realize that going solo, you aren't. Reality 2: You 0

 

which means that people "HAVE TO" Group....to even have a chance...so IYO BW should remove "SOLO QUE" because those people are just wastes of space. Do you see how the reverse thinking Sucks?

 

I posted another thread a few days back suggesting that they have PVP only skills that break up premades (AOE Energy/mana drains), (ability bar shuffle: rotational key binders, button spammers), X/Y axis inverter, and other Chaos inducing skills that break routines.

 

My desire is to balance Premade vs PUG by removing OP synergies.....where group or not...it's about individual ability.

[Khoraji]

 

 

My desire is to balance Premade vs PUG by removing OP synergies.....where group or not...it's about individual ability.

 

 

But thats where you are wrong. A team based game should not be all about individual ability, it should be about teamwork. There are plenty of single player games out there if you want to test your gaming skills by yourself.

[Serrowherrow]

My desire is to balance Premade vs PUG by removing OP synergies.....where group or not...it's about individual ability.

 

So you want the capability to single-handedly dismantle a group of voice-coordinated individuals?

 

Well, ok then.

 

Can I have the ability to one-shot anyone who ques solo?

[laparkuh]

Make friends, use chat to organize people, or stop pvping. Those are you're choices. The games not going to change because you don't like healers healing and tanks protecting their allies. If you really cant type "focus healer" or any type of command in chat, again, you have no business in a multiplayer game... Edited May 2, 2012 by laparkuh

[Alericus]

I'm torn on this issue. Ive made it to War Hero and guess what Ive had better luck playing in pugs than in my own premade. What I have noticed on our server is we Imps always do better playing against Imps, now I have won against Pub teams but in terms of overall class imbalance it seems we tend to have a lot more trouble with Pub premades than other Imp premades. Having said that I have seen a pug team beat a team with a premade. I cannot , however, be sure that some of the pug players were not in communciation in a vent/teamspeak/mumble fashion. I am also not a real fan of seeing a premade on my side fighitng premade of the same guild, cant be sure there isnt some collusion going on. If we ever get cross server tech going, I would like to see solo player matches separated from group matches, not for my own benefit but I think new level 50's stand a better chance gearing up and winning matches that way. This gives this game a fighting chance of thriving. I do believe cross server and warzone selection will be a great improvement in the pvp arena. It will go a long way to balancing the matches and helping stop stacked matches where one side just has no chance winning because they keep meeting up with the same team. I dont think its premades that can fail a game, its class imbalances, unchecked exploiting and a inability of the game developers to keep the game fresh, challenging and interesting.

[DarthKhaos]

Seriously? Groups of people playing together are responsible for failed MMOs? Take a moment to examine the logic of this statement and get back to us OP.

That's what I thought. I had to go clean my glasses and read it again.

[laparkuh]

That's what I thought. I had to go clean my glasses and read it again.

 

Applying his same logic....Ranged weapons ruin first person shooters. Melee range or nothing!

[Marcus_Darkstar]

Premades reduce the chance that you're getting a scrub in your random slots. This game requires almost no coordination, except in huttball, a premade won't help you in voidstar, novare or alderaan. This and the fact that there is a priority system that prioritizes premades to combat each other makes it a fair system. Chances are if you're playing a premade, you have one of your own premades in with you. This is the tradeoff for a shorter queue time.

 

This would be true if server populations supported multiple matches to run concurrently. If you happen to be on a small population server or play in off peak times then there may not be enough people on to see a robust matching system affect the queues.

[DarthKhaos]

my word people are dense....play with friends I don't give a F

 

The ability to synergize classes where the product of 1+1>2 is a broken method...it is designed from the old trinity where 1 tank + healer can hold a BOSS.....it screws up PVP...ie PLAYER VS PLAYER

Yet some still find ways to overcome said broken method and others can't. No matter what system is put in be it Trinity or not players will find a way to maximize.

[Ghamsar]

Quote: Originally Posted by RobNightfall

Seriously? Groups of people playing together are responsible for failed MMOs? Take a moment to examine the logic of this statement and get back to us OP.

That's what I thought. I had to go clean my glasses and read it again.

 

how difficult is this to understand?

 

MOST PEOPLE DONT DO PREMADES (seriously, a team of 8 pre will dismantle 50+ PUGS over a night)

 

Your premades cause people to quit.( perceived or real imbalance exploiting FOTM and Hacks)

 

Think about a GANG in the HOOD.....they are only 20 strong and the neighborhood has 1,000 people in it. But the gang causes all the problems, they have the illegal guns(hacks), Drugs(STIM,STIM,STIM), they have the coordination to abuse individuals, ETC

 

Could the 1,000 people make their own GANG and kill the original GANG...sure, but most just leave the neighborhood, or wait for the COPS (BW) to do something about it.

 

In short, the Premades kill MMOs....solo's quit playing, then the group cancer rolls to another game to infect...killing that one as well. Vicious Vicious cycle.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Ghamsar

[laparkuh]

how difficult is this to understand?

 

MOST PEOPLE DONT DO PREMADES (seriously, a team of 8 pre will dismantle 50+ PUGS over a night)

 

Your premades cause people to quit.( perceived or real imbalance exploiting FOTM and Hacks)

 

Think about a GANG in the HOOD.....they are only 20 strong and the neighborhood has 1,000 people in it. But the gang causes all the problems, they have the illegal guns(hacks), Drugs(STIM,STIM,STIM), they have the coordination to abuse individuals, ETC

 

Could the 1,000 people make their own GANG and kill the original GANG...sure, but most just leave the neighborhood, or wait for the COPS (BW) to do something about it.

 

In short, the Premades kill MMOs....solo's quit playing, then the group cancer rolls to another game to infect...killing that one as well. Vicious Vicious cycle.

 

You need to get this through your troll head. You don't need A PREMADE. Simple commands through chat work wonders, but according to previous posts you don't even want to do that. You just want to join a warfront, dps, and watch people die. That sounds like a first person shooter. So why are you still here?

[truchaos]

My desire is to balance Premade vs PUG by removing OP synergies.....where group or not...it's about individual ability.

And these synergies can only occur in a premade- never in a PUG?

 

It seems that 'solo-queuers' fail to understand is that because warzones are team-based, you are indeed queueing with a group... you are merely allowing the RNG of the queue to decide the entire makeup of that group for you.

[Ghamsar]

You need to get this through your troll head. You don't need A PREMADE. Simple commands through chat work wonders, but according to previous posts you don't even want to do that. You just want to join a warfront, dps, and watch people die. That sounds like a first person shooter. So why are you still here?

 

I unsubbed, look at my OP

 

Why am I posting? I am stating the reason for the UnSub, and stating what I believe could have kept me playing.

 

Last night was ridiculous, and All my "generalizations" were true.....hidden/kiting Operative healers, Jugs and mauraders(FOTM)..trash talk, griefing...glitching, hacking, speed running, magic multi-leap-pull ball carriers. The one time I get that elusive operative healer who never dies to ~10% HP...fall down glitch magically 20m away, then LOS, back to 75% by the time I can get into LOS.

 

I recognize the names night in night out....I can either re-roll on another server, or another game....I am choosing the later.

 

I PUG, we will usually have 7 because the 8th didn't click okay....then 2 mins in we are down to 4-5 as people quit over and over again.

 

Is this healthy for a game...I don't think so. Would my PUG team have quit if they were playing another PUG? Yet people don't see the problem of Premades killing the PUG population and therefore killing the game.

 

I must be a genius if others can't see it.

[laparkuh]

Or you're making generalized statements based on ONE server... You already left as you said. Let me know how FPS games turn out for you...especially since most of those have built in voice. Everyones a "premade" then! =)

[jinxcase]

the world will not change to suit you.. go buy MMO's for Dummy's (@amazon)

All of the things you complain about are skills/skill related. I'm top 3 DMG and Lap is top 2 heals everytime.. and were not even lvl 50s. This game is not for those who dont want to actually learn or those who just like to mash buttons.

[Exzileforgotten]

I like the guys who say they make premades for the competitive nature. Because rolling pugs is sooooooo competitive:rolleyes: I am all for ranked cant wait for my premade 8v8 for real competitive pvp.

[Pretty_Flacko]

to be honest the best thing they can do to even the playing field is create an in-game voice system. Premades biggest advantage against random pugs is vent.

 

dudeeee thisss ish right hur

[PloGreen]

I unsubbed, look at my OP

 

Why am I posting? I am stating the reason for the UnSub, and stating what I believe could have kept me playing.

 

Last night was ridiculous, and All my "generalizations" were true.....hidden/kiting Operative healers, Jugs and mauraders(FOTM)..trash talk, griefing...glitching, hacking, speed running, magic multi-leap-pull ball carriers. The one time I get that elusive operative healer who never dies to ~10% HP...fall down glitch magically 20m away, then LOS, back to 75% by the time I can get into LOS.

 

I recognize the names night in night out....I can either re-roll on another server, or another game....I am choosing the later.

 

I PUG, we will usually have 7 because the 8th didn't click okay....then 2 mins in we are down to 4-5 as people quit over and over again.

 

Is this healthy for a game...I don't think so. Would my PUG team have quit if they were playing another PUG? Yet people don't see the problem of Premades killing the PUG population and therefore killing the game.

 

I must be a genius if others can't see it.

 

So you got *** whooped and you quit? Basically what your post comes down to. Not alot anyone can do about that. I also think your pug would quit the first sign of a loss, which is probably often judging by your observations.

 

Hacks, magic abilities, premades are ruining the game? Or perhaps there is a possibility that you are in fact not very good at the game and/or making a group so you have loess chance of being matched with randoms with the same outlook as you.

 

Basically there is only so much the devs can do at the moment until cross server pvp comes along, until that time if your not going to help yourself overcome a pretty simple issue then I dont know what to suggest. As it stands calling others cheats or crying about people playing the game as it was intended makes you look like you are self-entitled and a little delusional - no offense just how it comes across.

Edited May 2, 2012 by PloGreen

[truchaos]

The truth finally comes out and it has nothing to do with premades.

 

If you are coming up against other players who are cheating- Report them. Don't fall prey to the bystander effect, don't assume that 'someone else' will report them. Take down their name, the time & place of the events, and what details you can recount. The more, unbiased details you can give the CS team to work with the better.

 

That you have basically stated that any/all who play in premade teams are cheaters is honestly quite insulting.

[Khoraji]

how difficult is this to understand?

 

MOST PEOPLE DONT DO PREMADES (seriously, a team of 8 pre will dismantle 50+ PUGS over a night)

 

Your premades cause people to quit.( perceived or real imbalance exploiting FOTM and Hacks)

 

 

Could the 1,000 people make their own GANG and kill the original GANG...sure, but most just leave the neighborhood, or wait for the COPS (BW) to do something about it.

 

In short, the Premades kill MMOs....solo's quit playing, then the group cancer rolls to another game to infect...killing that one as well. Vicious Vicious cycle.

 

First of all, there are only 4 man pre-mades..not 8

 

Solo q'ers only quit because they realize this isnt a single player game. Its about time.

 

Most PvPers run in premades.

 

Stop saying pre-mades hack. It gived you 0 advantages other than better communication.

[Ghamsar]

Or you're making generalized statements based on ONE server... You already left as you said. Let me know how FPS games turn out for you...especially since most of those have built in voice. Everyones a "premade" then! =)

 

One server....all the QQ threads on the main PVP pages come from one server?

 

No we are all having the same experience and that's why there are multiple threads started.... but within each thread are the "premade" people who say L2PNOOB, Roll FPS,UMAD...do you see them?

 

the world will not change to suit you.. go buy MMO's for Dummy's (@amazon)

All of the things you complain about are skills/skill related. I'm top 3 DMG and Lap is top 2 heals everytime.. and were not even lvl 50s. This game is not for those who dont want to actually learn or those who just like to mash buttons.

 

huh, is this to me? I'm top DMG, top kills, top killing blows....i look for the guy with the highest HP and will not stop til one of us is dead(hate those rollers with big gear)

[Astarica]

If PUGs quit the game when they get defeated by a premade, what happens when a premade gets defeated by a PUG? Delete their character in shame? Leave the Internet for good?

 

If premades takes their losses as seriously as people complaining about them do, this wouldn't be a problem because according to people, premades almost never lose so if you lose a game you probably should quit, and yet I have seen quite a few premades go down on PUGs on my server. By definition I should never see those guys again, but of course they're usually back in the next game.

 

Honestly most premades mentally block out the times they lose and if they can do it while having a considerable edge, you can do it as a PUG too which is definitely a disadvantaged position.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Astarica