Premades are responsible for failed MMOs

[Jibarro]

First let me say I did not read through the whole post, kinda got redundent after the second third page TBH.

 

Premades ruin PvP: no they don't...............IDIOTS ruin PvP.

SWTOR PvP is probably the easiest PvP I have ever played in any MMO i've played, and i've played quite a few over the years, but then again I am no where near being a hardcore PvPer. I PvP because it is fun, especially in this game.

 

PvP in SWTOR is wait for it.......................here it comes...................objective based, get the ball over the goal line, cap and hold the turrets/bunker, cap and or prevent the other team from capping the door/computer terminal....objectives.

 

when you PuG a WZ you are randomely put on a team with 7 other people whom by now have played every warzone ATLEAST once, they know what the "objectives" are in order to achieve victory. Do pre-mades have an advantage? of course they do, they are 2-3-4 friends using Vent/TS/Skype or whatever other chat programs are avaliable to communicate with each other, making it easier for them to prevent and or achieve the objectives .

 

Does that mean they will win every time.................HELL NO. I PuG and I also have a friend I PvP with constantly, we use Ventrillo when we're on PvPing and questing, do we win every time we're together? no. When I PuG a WZ and we go up against a pre-made do they win every time? no. Why? because after running the same warzone be it same faction or versus the opposite faction eventually you will figure out thier strategy and be able to counter it.

 

Problem is when you PuG you have those 2 or 3 MORONS who do know that this is objective based PvP but still prefer to go all "LONE WOLF" resulting in you losing the match.

 

On the server I play on there is this pre-made 3-4 people in the same guild, you know damm well they're on Vent or something to that effect and they are good. They work well together, they know thier roles in each different WZ they go in and they DON'T win all the time.

 

PvP is server specific so for the most part if it's consistent you will eventually get to know almost everyone on your PuG team, and they you, they and you will know how the pre-made team plays a specific WZ and know how to counter it, if not then you deserve to loose, because if you haven't figured out who thier healer is by now, mark them and take 2-3 seconds to type in chat "healer marked" then you deserve to lose. If you haven't figured out that 2 or 3 of the 4 will try and run up to the catwalks and eventually down toward your goal and you havent learned to peal thier heads back before they get there or knock them off then you deserve to lose.

 

Premades are'nt doing anything different then you are, they just do what most PuG teams don't....communicate with each other, use teamwork to achieve the objectives and win.

[ShadowOfVey]

I often "premade" with 3 people I know that are decent players, just depending who is on. We don't use vent and about the only thing "premade" about it is the fact that we know the others are decent. Usually there's not even a healer, heh. Oftentimes it's some random comp like 2 dps mercs, a powertech, and a concealment operative or something like that.

 

Yet we usually win. Why is that?

[XenonParsec]

OP gets 10/10.

 

immaculate work, good sir.

[Skolops]

Short of setting up two separate ques for premades and pugs, there's no way, no matter how you design the game, to make premades less effective against pugs.

 

You'll always have one group that is more organized and has a strategy and better communication, and one that has less in all of these categories. Better organization and communication will always have a huge advantage.

 

Now, I can say that, as another poster suggested, simply playing more and more helps. Yes, you'll still get some groups that are bad, but as you play over days and weeks the more you'll also recognize the other players on your team and come to know their strengths and weaknesses, and the more they'll recognize you. This doesn't completely mitigate the advantage from a premade, but it helps a great deal - far, far more than you'd think.

[LiQuiDMDH]

I often "premade" with 3 people I know that are decent players, just depending who is on. We don't use vent and about the only thing "premade" about it is the fact that we know the others are decent. Usually there's not even a healer, heh. Oftentimes it's some random comp like 2 dps mercs, a powertech, and a concealment operative or something like that.

 

Yet we usually win. Why is that?

You're cheating. Must be. n_n

[RobNightfall]

Seriously? Groups of people playing together are responsible for failed MMOs? Take a moment to examine the logic of this statement and get back to us OP.

[Ghamsar]

I bolded the most important part of this post, This is basically the point of his post that everyone should of gotten too and said, Gee.. this guy is an idiot for sure...

 

lol, i just went through your post history

 

You really like to jump in on anti-premade chat....any specific reason? You support Premades, tell others L2P to if they can't take out premade groups all the while talking about how you can kill 3 healers with your tank.

 

Yeah, thanks for your input.

[necromag]

The problem is not premades but the lack of cross server wz's meaning the player pool is too small and the lack of a system that pits premades vs premades only.

 

Many i know who enjoy pvp in this game have given up on it,going at it solo and getting roflstomped by the same premades over and over gets old fast.

[RobNightfall]

I understand what you are saying but you are missing the key Issue: MOTIVATION

 

The premade players become premade to win...win is their only goal, win at all costs

 

Like the Steroids in Baseball, it's about success...that's all...don't believ the other crap it's all smoke and mirrors trying to hide their MOTIVATION.

 

This Motivation makes it okay in their minds to hack and exploit as well.

 

that's were you ideal misses what the premade mentality will do

 

They will NOT QUE GROUP...they will synchronize SOLO ques...because they want to God mode PWN NOOBS...they don't want competition...why in Open world is it 5-6 vs 1-2?

 

The GANG thug mentality is what a premade is....there is no NOBILITY in them....why do you think most are Sith to begin with? It speaks volumes.

 

LOL first of all you're actually looking for nobility of spirit in a game. This is a game. Nobility of spirit manifests in real life circumstances, not a game.

Secondly, I'm a Republic player and I run with my friends in a pre-made because I like them. I have a sneaking suspicion that Empire players just might feel the same way. After all, MMOs are a social experience.

And once again, LOL at your nobility comments.

[Astarica]

The problem is not premades but the lack of cross server wz's meaning the player pool is too small and the lack of a system that pits premades vs premades only.

 

Many i know who enjoy pvp in this game have given up on it,going at it solo and getting roflstomped by the same premades over and over gets old fast.

 

Like I posted earlier, if you take the poulation of Starcraft 2 and divide it up to 100 or 500 servers, you'd see people posting about how premades ruin Starcraft 2 since there's only going to be maybe 5 of them on whatever your 'server'' is.

 

Of course in the real world Starcraft 2 didn't stupidly divide up its population into unsustainable fragments, but MMORPG continue to do this.

[Thegriss]

Usally when we are running pre made sub 50 pvp in guild we are all on vent..... This makes us much more orginized and even if we are playing agaist a team that has several higher level characters on it we win because we communicate. Blame BW for not putting in game VC. Even tho most in game VC system suck it would still help with the lack of communication pugs have VS premades.

[Obtena]

Even after 9 pages, I'm still trying to digest the fact that someone is legitimately complaining that players are grouping to win in an MMO. I don't think it matters if it's PVP or PVE or even RP ... if you can't accept the fact that players team to win in an MMO, you shouldn't be complaining about it, you should get yourself a dose of reality. That's the whole concept of the genre. You either embrace it and beat them at their own game or you better remove yourself from the whole experience if you can't handle it. It's completely stupid to suggest 'fixing' things related to concept of teaming in an MMO. Not teaming for team-able activities should never allow anyone soloing to compete with teams in that same activity. Like it or not, there are rewards for adhering to the structure of the game. If you don't team for WZ's, don't expect to be able to compete. Simply get your participation daily and go home. The OP better rejig his expectations accordingly. Edited May 2, 2012 by Obtena

[Sporticus]

Even after 9 pages, I'm still trying to digest the fact that someone is legitimately complaining that players are grouping to win in an MMO.

 

He may be complaining, but he has no legitimate points.

[PloGreen]

Even after 9 pages, I'm still trying to digest the fact that someone is legitimately complaining that players are grouping to win in an MMO. I don't think it matters if it's PVP or PVE or even RP ... if you can't accept the fact that players team to win in an MMO, you shouldn't be complaining about it, you should get yourself a dose of reality. That's the whole concept of the genre. You either embrace it and beat them at their own game or you better remove yourself from the whole experience if you can't handle it. It's completely stupid to suggest 'fixing' the concept of teaming in an MMO. The OP better rejig his expectations accordingly.

 

Pretty much what I was thinking.

[Ghamsar]

And once again, LOL at your nobility comments.

 

so you think it's common to try to use exploits?

 

Premades types did the Ilum valor farming, they are cheats.

 

Again just google search SWTOR Hacks....what's the name of the site that comes up first? Please think about that, and understand exactly how they are a cancer to MMO gaming.

[Scoobings]

Like I posted earlier, if you take the poulation of Starcraft 2 and divide it up to 100 or 500 servers, you'd see people posting about how premades ruin Starcraft 2 since there's only going to be maybe 5 of them on whatever your 'server'' is.

 

Of course in the real world Starcraft 2 didn't stupidly divide up its population into unsustainable fragments, but MMORPG continue to do this.

 

This times 50. To be fair though, it was the community who was very loud about absolutely not wanting cross server ques while a handful of people who could see beyond the shiney nickle right in front of their face said "When this game starts losing subs you're going to wish you had them."

 

I love the smell of "I told you so" in the morning.

[PloGreen]

so you think it's common to try to use exploits?

 

Premades types did the Ilum valor farming, they are cheats.

 

Again just google search SWTOR Hacks....what's the name of the site that comes up first? Please think about that, and understand exactly how they are a cancer to MMO gaming.

 

Premade types are cheats?

 

I think the problem is in your mind, no offense. As someone who advocates premades I have never googled swtor hacks, I guess you must be looking for some if you think "premade types are cheats".

 

The objective of pvp is to win the war zone, teaming up with like-minded people is the logical thing to do, I fail to see how this is unfair because you are quite capable of doing the same.

[Ghamsar]

Even after 9 pages, I'm still trying to digest the fact that someone is legitimately complaining that players are grouping to win in an MMO. I don't think it matters if it's PVP or PVE or even RP ... if you can't accept the fact that players team to win in an MMO, you shouldn't be complaining about it, you should get yourself a dose of reality. That's the whole concept of the genre. You either embrace it and beat them at their own game or you better remove yourself from the whole experience if you can't handle it. It's completely stupid to suggest 'fixing' things related to concept of teaming in an MMO. Not teaming for team-able activities should never allow anyone soloing to compete with teams in that same activity. Like it or not, there are rewards for adhering to the structure of the game. If you don't team for WZ's, don't expect to be able to compete. Simply get your participation daily and go home. The OP better rejig his expectations accordingly.

 

my word people are dense....play with friends I don't give a F

 

The ability to synergize classes where the product of 1+1>2 is a broken method...it is designed from the old trinity where 1 tank + healer can hold a BOSS.....it screws up PVP...ie PLAYER VS PLAYER

[Khoraji]

so you think it's common to try to use exploits?

 

Premades types did the Ilum valor farming, they are cheats.

 

Again just google search SWTOR Hacks....what's the name of the site that comes up first? Please think about that, and understand exactly how they are a cancer to MMO gaming.

 

So grouping is a cancer in multiplayer games... smart

 

 

I think QQ'ers who don't understand what competition is are the worst cancer to any online game.

[PloGreen]

my word people are dense....play with friends I don't give a F

 

The ability to synergize classes where the product of 1+1>2 is a broken method...it is designed from the old trinity where 1 tank + healer can hold a BOSS.....it screws up PVP...ie PLAYER VS PLAYER

 

No need to insult people, just because they question your logic.

[V-Serp]

Like I posted earlier, if you take the poulation of Starcraft 2 and divide it up to 100 or 500 servers, you'd see people posting about how premades ruin Starcraft 2 since there's only going to be maybe 5 of them on whatever your 'server'' is.

 

Of course in the real world Starcraft 2 didn't stupidly divide up its population into unsustainable fragments, but MMORPG continue to do this.

 

Starcraft 2 also doesn't allow gear imbalances or other advantages in their PVP. There are no levels or anything else. You unlock stuff in the regular game, but once you're in PVP everyone starts out with their base building and 4 resource gatherers and that's it.

 

You also don't need to communicate as much because your allies can see your entire base, and you theirs, while your enemies can not (outside of obvious detection snuck in, but that is another story).

 

Further, you can see your opponents before the game starts, and SCII uses a ranking system and pits people of similar abilities together anyway.

 

There is no comparison to any other genre.

[Obtena]

my word people are dense....play with friends I don't give a F

 

The ability to synergize classes where the product of 1+1>2 is a broken method...it is designed from the old trinity where 1 tank + healer can hold a BOSS.....it screws up PVP...ie PLAYER VS PLAYER

 

If your thread is about synergy between classes, why is the thread titled how pre-mades ruin MMO's? The answer: You're just looking for a new topic to latch onto because your first one made you look bad.

 

Regardless, this claim is just as ridiculous ... those synergies aren't consciously placed there by devs, they occur NATURALLY as a consequence of certain styles of play being naturally well matched. The idea that they can be as easily removed to 'fix' them indicates you don't really understand how those synergies occur in the first place. No, it doesn't screw up PVP any more than it screws up PVE. If there are synergies between classes, the way to address that is the same way to address the problem of people teaming in ... a teaming activity. If others are cashing in on those synergies, you need to realize that going solo, you aren't and simply accept that's how MMO's work since teaming is encouraged. Reality 2: You 0

Edited May 2, 2012 by Obtena

[Khoraji]

my word people are dense....play with friends I don't give a F

 

The ability to synergize classes where the product of 1+1>2 is a broken method...it is designed from the old trinity where 1 tank + healer can hold a BOSS.....it screws up PVP...ie PLAYER VS PLAYER

 

Class synergy screws up pvp? For who?

[Pekish]

I understand what you are saying but you are missing the key Issue: MOTIVATION

 

 

 

The premade players become premade to win...win is their only goal, win at all costs

 

Like the Steroids in Baseball, it's about success...that's all...don't believ the other crap it's all smoke and mirrors trying to hide their MOTIVATION.

 

This Motivation makes it okay in their minds to hack and exploit as well.

 

 

 

that's were you ideal misses what the premade mentality will do

 

They will NOT QUE GROUP...they will synchronize SOLO ques...because they want to God mode PWN NOOBS...they don't want competition...why in Open world is it 5-6 vs 1-2?

 

The GANG thug mentality is what a premade is....there is no NOBILITY in them....why do you think most are Sith to begin with? It speaks volumes.

 

if you trying to sell me that people is stupid you don't need much effort

 

player are one of the lamest category around mostly because made by repressed people (and i dont mean it as insult just a fact)

but you can just blame it on premade competition "can" be healthy to an extend and premade are not always GANG up you are to narrow minded

 

then you finish ur post with kids play sith that is true but again another generalization... honestly generalizing you dont solve problem you only look lame yourself.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Pekish

[sharkfinsix]

the toons of premades work with each other to exploit builds and exploit the synergies that they produce. This makes it where you have to get a group, re-roll, re-spec.

 

you ever run across the fire pits in Hutball, toons getting speed burst, pushed, pulled, grappled from mid to goaline in approx 6 secs flat?

 

How about a couple toons at each turret with DEF CD's/stealth that make it near impossible to kill both in enough time to cap a turret before the 1st one take the speeder back to interrupt cap?

 

While yes...Pugs can do this too, they aren't organized by BUILDs and build synergy. As Healer am I guaranteed to have someone in my PUG group that will guard me....will a solo tank even que?

 

That's why I said that I want to basically remove any and all build synergies. Just solo....take less dmg/deal less dmg...healing is sacrfice (HP Shift, not just endless reservoir)

 

^^ This....my sub has 107 days left and is currently set to not renew. BW get it together, I would happily re-sub if i am having fun.