Someone explain the LFG tool hate?

[Skirata_Kal]

I just don't get all the WoW LFG hate. Really I don't.

 

I've played both factions on multiple servers over a number of years, and I've had bad groups - groups with terrible players, players that are rude, and players that just seem to want to afk.

 

BUT...

 

Those were the exceptions.

 

The majority of groups I've been in have had no issues. None. Maybe they have been a bit quiet, but the groups all completed the content with no fuss or issues.

 

In fact I just finished a 7 day 'trial' with their Scroll of Resurrection, and used the LFG on a couple of 85 along with a new character I created. I never waited more than 10-15 minutes for a group, and I never had an issue with a group.

 

I haven't renewed my sub there because the content has grown stale to me, but at some point I may go back and drop SWTOR as accessible stale content is still better than any content that isn't accessible.

 

Agreed! That was my experience as well. For every bad group, there were many good groups. Sure, I'd have the occasionaly bad night where every group that night was bad, but those were VERY rare! And I still had friends in game that I interacted with (until Cata ran them off and eventually me).

[Cerion]

The funniest part of this whole debate is that as soon as LFG is put into game... every single one of the people complaining.... will be using it.

Then we will get the obligatory threads from them saying: I got ninjaed!!!! I told you so... and yet, secretly they will continue to use it...

 

If you are so against it, then simply do not use it when its implemented... its a fairly simple concept.

Just like LFR in WoW... people that dont like it did not have to use it... those with brains that knew they could get 4pc from it and improve healing and dps for real raiding... used it and ignored the numb-nuts.

Its a tool, its your decision to use it or not... but please stop trying to take away the OPTION to use it... we do not have to live by your rules and you do not have to use our LFG system...

 

 

 

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live."

Oscar Wilde

 

Well, I won't be using it as I don't group with strangers. But then again, I'm also not complaining, but supporting the compromise position of same-server LFG tools (which I point out, again, I will likely never use either).

[GalacticKegger]

It's not really hate. On one hand many came from other games where slick UI tools did their socializing/grouping for them. They come here finding they have to physically extend their hand to shake another's and it 's simply culture shock. Though I personally believe it has a place for those who are not socially outgoing. On the other hand it can also be a time saver, which some find important.

 

I think the ones who are against LFG are players who can't or won't devote their efforts to accelerated acquisition of gear and commendations, and can feel "left in the dust" by players who use it to expedite their gear progression. Because an automated LFG does make the process of gearing up a much quicker one, I hope BW doesn't fall prey to players getting too uber too quickly for the game because of it. (Think WoW.) No idea if there is a system of checks & balances for this, which it needs.

Edited May 1, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Skidrowbro]

Has anyone ever noticed how there is never a "If you add LFG I will quit" thread only the "Add LFG or I will quit or you game will fail threads"?

[Lugonn]

I just cancelled my subscription due to the lack of players on my server.

Trying to find members for grouped content should not take up hours of your game time.

A LFG tool in one of the after launch patches would have swayed my decision to leave the game.

 

It still baffles me that folks who can create such fantastic story and game content fail to add quality of life stuff like a lfg tool or way to summon your fellow players to an instance. No devs looked at other premium/freemium mmo's and ticked off what players want (need) in order to play like they're used to?

[MasterKayote]

I'm not gonna stop talking about it until a X-server is actually implemented. Anyone who has experience with LFD tools knows what is going to happen with this same server LFD tool - High populated servers will prosper and all others will not. How is that different from todays Group Finder?

 

What the ... did you miss the part about the free server transfers or is this just more dismissal? Xserver isnt going to solve your population problem. Your questing, your dailies, your economy and all around socializing will still blow. YOU may not care whether or not your group experiences become a chatless 0-tolerance speed race for gear drops ... others do and want alternatives.

 

You can QQ, kick and scream all you want ... fact of the matter is they decided on same-server and thats what we're getting first. If it works and people find groups within reasonable time, you can kick, scream and dismiss the players concerns even louder... youre not going to get it. Luckily for us there is SOMEONE inside the Bioware offices that seems to value community and realizes the consequences of blindly adding things like x-server LFG and easy access FFA DPS meters because little Timmy is throwing a tantrum in the forums.

[dtim]

I've been playing WoW since March of '05. You would spend a lot of time getting a group together and guess what? There were "ninja" looters, players terrible at their class, people simply being jerks, arguments about who caused a wipe, people leaving in mid dungeon without a word, etc.

 

No, it certainly didn't happen in every run. But I really haven't seen any increase since the Dungeon Finder was added.

 

There are a few people who make friends through running dungeons but that has never been the majority of players. I've made more friends when trying to find someone to help on a difficult quest than finding someone for a dungeon run. I do feel for the players who have lost the sense of "community" that I never saw but the sheer amount of convenience that such tools provide is hard for me to not want.

 

Hopefully as MMOs develop further separate servers will become less of an issue. WoW is moving in this direction already, being able to create cross-server groups. I expect cross-server guilds to become available at some point in the near future. And being able to ignore someone and never group with them again based on their battletag would be great. If TOR can provide similar tools for cross-server communities then I think a lot of the complaints would be moot.

Edited May 1, 2012 by dtim

[-Highsteel-]

I'm not going to read 14 pages to see if my comment is a duplicate, if this has been said already, please excuse.

 

I think people hate it, cause they like that people are out there not able to get in a group to get these items, it makes them feel special that they have these items and you don't. Thats the only reason I can think of, nothing else holds weight.

[Codek]

Has anyone ever noticed how there is never a "If you add LFG I will quit" thread only the "Add LFG or I will quit or you game will fail threads"?

 

My guess is because those arguing for no LFG clearly have the patience and intellect to go with what ever changes occur. Where as those who want the LFG seem to have ADHD and want quick self gratification and will move to where ever it can obtained.

 

But that's just me....

Edited May 1, 2012 by Codek

[Cerion]

Has anyone ever noticed how there is never a "If you add LFG I will quit" thread only the "Add LFG or I will quit or you game will fail threads"?

 

Makes sense. The former group seems to me to be less reactionary, less hysterical, more mature, whilst the latter group is...well, I'll let the evidence speak for itself. Perhaps the former group also has less difficulty forming groups without the aid of a UI? Thus an LFG tool wouldn't be a thorn in their side, per se..ie the stakes aren't as high for them.

[Skirata_Kal]

faceless anonymity destroys MMOs!

 

So...the internet destroys MMOs?

 

Same server would be fine. x-server destroys communitys and you can go check all the nubs sitting in que in some city floating on a flying mount waiting to see what x-server does to an MMO and the community.

 

You mean, like all the people in fleet sitting there doing nothing but spamming General? And that's without any LFD tool....

 

It also breeds a certain type of gamer that flocks to x-server based MMO's who have no respect for people working as a team to defeat the instance. they simply don't get the drop they leave the group in mid-fight and find another group.

 

Those type players existed in great numbers before any LFD tool was implemented. And they exist in this game already.

 

They don't have to be nice they just want the drop and can leave at anypoint. right now if you just leave a group you start your career on the server as a person who is ineffective in a group and your rep for being a arse-hat can grow to the point you will not find people to group with if your rep on the server is bad.

 

Also if your good at your class role and do well in groups you gain good rep with the community and get offers for more runs.

 

The rudest people I ever dealt with in WoW were same server people. They knew that since they were in one of the few raiding guilds on their server that they could get away with anything because if you complained, you didn't raid with them and hence probably didn't raid at all. When xrealm LFD came out, suddenly everyone who wanted to run something on their own time, could so more people were geared for raiding which opened that up to more guilds. Suddenly those people in their 'leet' guilds weren't so special anymore. Their power was reduced...which I for one consider a good thing. As for skill, I always got return invites and requests to switch guilds when I healed a group. I just didn't want to join any of those guilds full of snobs. After xrealm LFD came out, I even got requests to transfer servers lol. No, I'm not the greatest, but I wasn't a scrub either lol.

[Jarazar]

I think it is funny when people say "I only want LFG on my server...not cross server." What good is that going to do when you can't get a group together now. When you spam general chat for over an hour an can't find a group, what makes you think a same server LFG will work?

[Tristal]

Sadly this solution screws over low population servers, though I agree that cross-server PVP & LFG makes it more difficult for communities to develop.

 

I don't see how it is any different for players on a low population server, I find it impossible to group currently and standing in fleet with like 10 people about is not very exciting, I would imagine it works just as well as the pvp system.

[ChaosKirin]

I dunno why there's so much hate.

 

If you want a community, HAVE ONE. I hate to say it, but duh? If there are so many people who are afraid of losing 'community,' how 'bout if you band together and, you know, make a 'We Love Community' guild?

 

...and let me have my cross-server LFG tool, where I will happily have fun and build community with people I may have never met if not for the LFG tool. I mean seriously, this isn't rocket science. You do things your way and be happy. Have all the happy fun-time community you want. Have a community PARTY, I don't care. If you and 9872 people are dead-set against LFG... what, are you afraid you're going to be forced to use it when it comes out? Just find the other people who don't want to use it and continue to look for a group the way you want to. Do you think the people who don't want it now are just going to go "*sigh,* oh well, guess I have to use the LFG tool now"?

 

Take some initiative and stop spamming LFG GEARED TANK HM BT all over the general chat.

[chaosdefined]

Well, I won't be using it as I don't group with strangers.

 

Why are you playing an MMO?!

 

Tell me, what concessions are YOU giving up in your proposal?

 

But hey, keep spewing your definition of 'compromise'. Anyone with a lick of schooling beyond 10th Grade Civics knows who is right here. That would be me.

 

Go on then, explain what it is you are giving up in the name of a compromise by saying only a Single Server LFG?

 

And while you're at it, explain your claims that Gold Sellers will use Cross-Server LFG to destroy the economy?

[Tristal]

Why is that amusing? I want to meet players sure, but whats the point if your never going to see them again?

 

Well with the WoW system you can, what with the battle.net account system and all

[Skirata_Kal]

Makes sense. The former group seems to me to be less reactionary, less hysterical, more mature, whilst the latter group is...well, I'll let the evidence speak for itself. Perhaps the former group also has less difficulty forming groups without the aid of a UI? Thus an LFG tool wouldn't be a thorn in their side, per se..ie the stakes aren't as high for them.

 

Ah yes, insulting people who have a different opinion from yours is so mature...

[Timesjoke]

Maybe I can help explain the whole problem.

 

We talk to each other, we can help each other out. There are many stories of people helping out people IRL not ever meeting them but only what they know from the game. That's the community people don't want to get rid of. And unless you've ever been part of a community like that, you just will never understand.

 

This is one of the best examples someone has offered for the so called "community" argument against a LFG tool.

 

The problem is, the "community" he speaks of has never existed in this game. Sure, there are a few very tiny pools of Elitists who are trying to preserve "their idea" of what a MMO "should be" but they are mostly trying to preserve their own feelings of superiority over the other players. This person clearly shows that he desires to boss other people around and if they do not do as he orders them to do, they should be punished, excluded and shunned.

 

Each of us pay the same money to play this game, why should only the most self-centered Elitists be allowed to tell everyone else in the game they are not worthy to see endgame content?

 

 

I can only play during the day, there are no guilds on my server doing any operations during the day. NONE. I have worked hard to develop my toon, done endless boring dailies and spent a lot of my credits upgrading and tweeking but all that work is for nothing because there is nobody doing runs when I can play on my server. I have a lvl 50 toon that is worthless right now because I have done everything that can be done alone and there are no groups running on my server during the day.

 

The worse part is the few Elitists who want their closed society type of community can have it, nobody is saying you can't limit your play to only those who want a super strict forced guild environment, the only thing that will change is the power the Elitists have to force other people to conform to their control by force. And there is the real problem.......every single person saying "no" to a LFG tool is motivated by their desire to force other people to play this game "their way" and by "their rules". No individuality, no personal flair, no fun, to them this game is more of a job, not a game to be having fun playing.

[TheNotorius]

If anyone is interested, I created a LFG Finder Tool!

 

If you wanna help with some ideas, this is my link to the Suggestion Box

--> Suggestion Box: LFG Finder

Edited May 1, 2012 by TheNotorius

[chaosdefined]

 

We talk to each other, we can help each other out. There are many stories of people helping out people IRL not ever meeting them but only what they know from the game. That's the community people don't want to get rid of. And unless you've ever been part of a community like that, you just will never understand.

 

Nobody stops people from doing that after Cross-Server. People just don't. That's not a tool destroying a community, that's people not bothering to have one.

[Balrizangor]

I am personally all for a LFG tool, what I am against is a cross-server one. This was, to me anyway, the worst thing WoW could have done to its game. It took away your servers ability to police itself. People would queue with this, knowing that no matter how they acted or what they did in that group, they would still be able to get another group right after the one they were a dick in. To me, it promoted being a ******* in people that, normally, would not have acted like that if they only could group on their own server because they would know that, eventually, they would not be able to find a group.

 

Then there is the issue of it hurting guilds. Before the x-server LFG tool in WoW, guilds would go out and group with other people on the server and look for possible recruits, if they found someone good they would suggest going and putting in an app for their guild. With x-server, everyone you grouped with became a nameless player. It just took so much from the server community.

[Wolfeisberg]

faceless anonymity destroys MMOs!

 

Same server would be fine. x-server destroys communitys and you can go check all the nubs sitting in que in some city floating on a flying mount waiting to see what x-server does to an MMO and the community.

 

It also breeds a certain type of gamer that flocks to x-server based MMO's who have no respect for people working as a team to defeat the instance. they simply don't get the drop they leave the group in mid-fight and find another group.

 

They don't have to be nice they just want the drop and can leave at anypoint. right now if you just leave a group you start your career on the server as a person who is ineffective in a group and your rep for being a arse-hat can grow to the point you will not find people to group with if your rep on the server is bad.

 

Also if your good at your class role and do well in groups you gain good rep with the community and get offers for more runs.

 

The few times per week that what you actually described above actually happened to me in WoW, out of the 25+ runs per week, yeah, it is an acceptable risk.

 

Also, Rep only mattered to the the relatively few people on a server. Funny, that every server I played on in WoW during the Vanilla and Burning Crusades days, that I always saw the consistent ninja looters keep on getting geared up, even faster then I was, despite being put on ignore lists, and guess what, 2 years later those same ninja looters were still getting geared up, getting groups in Burning Crusade. The fact is, the vast majority of the players on a server didn't know who he was, they just put him on ignore and move on, but he still had the rest of the server to get groups with.

 

In this day and age, server rep is only known by a few, the vast majority don't know or don' t care.

[Cerion]

Ah yes, insulting people who have a different opinion from yours is so mature...

 

I never said I belonged to the former group, lol, so you have no idea WHAT my opinion is.

 

 

Having said that, you have to admit that the stomp-your-feet, bratty "Do this BW, or I quit" is rather immature. I think we all agree on that. I may even agree with the reasons underlying their rage, but making childish blackmail threats is, well, childish.

[solidus_snake]

I'm all for an LFG tool; there is no acceptable reason to NOT have it. Some will say that it destroys server communities (specifically cross-server ones), but in SWTOR its not a problem because there is NO sense of server community. People rarely talk and on my server (Corellian Run) guilds don't seem to be recruiting so people in my situation don't have a stable of people to run with reliably. Not to mention that this wouldn't affect said guild groups anyway; they are still free to group together to do content and ignore the rest of the server as always.

[Jaxarale]

Having said that, you have to admit that the stomp-your-feet, bratty "Do this BW, or I quit" is rather immature. I think we all agree on that. I may even agree with the reasons underlying their rage, but making childish blackmail threats is, well, childish.

 

I've been posting in this thread from the beginning and have not seen anything even close to this... I just re-skimmed it all and again, saw nothing to justify your comments...

 

While I agree with your premiss...(giving ultimatums to get your way is dumb/childish) it has no basis in this thread, so again... why are you posting this here?

 

Find a thread where there is some "stomping of your feet" type stuff and post it there?

 

Jus Sayin...

Edited May 1, 2012 by Jaxarale