Juggernauts are too OP and need a major nerf.

[Airoper]

L2P you bad players will always be bad dont expect the nerf bat to save you all the time .

**** with you ideas & get better before you cry over a whole class which by the way has 3 trees so meh ****

[Airoper]

lol just re read the op & lol you have no clue you want a nerf missile not a nerf bat! im lololololing that people are taking the op serious Edited May 2, 2012 by Airoper

[krazi]

Let me explain, I have been noticing that many players have been getting killed by Juggs, and complaining about how we are unstoppable. Therefore, I have made a list of changes that I believe Bioware should consider.

 

Abilities:

1). Vicious slash - Reduce the damage by 30% and increase the rage cost by 2.

2). Force Charge - Increase the CD on force charge by 35 seconds, and increase the damage we take after using force charge by 75%.

3). Smash - Increase the CD on smash by 3 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 15%. Also, increase the time it takes to land a hit with this move by 75%.

4). Saber Ward - Increase the CD by 5 extra minutes and have it require 5 rage to use.

5). Force Scream - Reduce damage done by 10% and increase the CD by 33%.

6). Ravage - Increase the CD by 60 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 95%.

7). Threatening Scream - Increase the CD by 15 seconds, and have it cost 3 rage.

8). Impale - Reduce the damage of this move by 55%, and increase the CD by 7 seconds.

9). Crash - Add that back in, without it, we are actually efficient in combat.

10). Force Choke - Increase the CD by 30 seconds, and have it build 0 rage.

11). Unleash - Increase the CD by 33 seconds.

12). Force Push - After using Force push, make sure that we cannot move/charge afterwords.

 

Talents:

 

Rage:

 

1). Payback - Even after the stealth nerf, oh, I mean buff, we are still able to heal ourselves. Reduce healing by 5%.

2). Shockwave - Allow Shockwave to only stack up to 2 times. Oh, and reduce the damage of the buff by half.

3). Force Crush - Remove the reduction of speed. It is good sportsmanship to allow an enemy to run away.

 

Vengeance:

 

1). Ruin - Remove this talent.(Replace with Ruined - Reduces damage dealt by 35%)

2). Pooled Hatred - Remove this talent.(Replace with Sadness - Reduces your running speed by 10%)

3). Savagery - Reduce the critical hit chance of force scream and vicious throw by 30%.

4). Rampage - Remove this talent.(Replace with Kindess - Restores enemy health back to max)

 

Immortal:

 

1). Invincible - Increase the CD by 2 minutes. Also, reduce damage taken by 20%.

2). Sonic Barrer - Remove this talent.(Replace with Gift Giving - Places a barrier on the enemy target to shield them from incoming attacks)

3). Thrown gauntlet - Increases the CD of Force Push by 90 seconds.

4). Force Grip - Force Choke no longer needs to be channeled, however, there is a 95% chance that this could backfire and you may choke yourself.

 

Stupid thread, would make the class unplayable. This is a sarcastic post? Over powered juggernaut? Are you kidding me? Juggernauts are a joke compared to most "tank" classes. Imagine all of these changes on the juggernaut classes, now try to fight 1v1 any class as a dps specced juggernaut...then reroll vanguard or powertech and try to 1v1 as a tank specced. Juggernaut was/is overpowered? Stop kidding yourself with this stupidity. Don't even get me started on a tank specced Assassin/shadow - Lol. Which is the better tank to play, now nerf juggernaut and watch everyone quit the class as your "changes" would make the class pathetic, stupid, unnecessary and weak/useless.

Edited May 2, 2012 by krazi

[HarryTr]

Why does everyone think of a Jugg as a tank? has it ever occurred to you that the Jugg has two DPS trees?

 

Next time you fight a jugg, look at which lightsaber form they are using, that should give you a general idea, before saying things like "this is just unacceptable" and trying to get a class nerfed that has slapped you in pvp without you knowing the full picture. Posts like this are what give pvp'ers a bad name with all the whinging.

 

The thing with this my friend is that, even though Jugg has 2 dps trees, mara's have to pay for their dps wearing medium armor. So simply by bridging the overall dps of these two different classes with a tree, while having different types of armor, would immediately imply an imbalance as you understand. Jugg's and Mara's cant have similar dps even on dps tree/gear, cause they have different ways of spreading the damage in the battlefield. Jugg's have heavy armor so they need to deal alittle bit less while gaining an advantage of their increased survivability. Mara's on the other hand have more, but die quicker. Thats how its supposed to be balanced.

[kweassa]

The thing with this my friend is that, even though Jugg has 2 dps trees, mara's have to pay for their dps wearing medium armor.

 

1. Guardians and Juggs pay for their DPS by having 0 means of self defense outside the 2 min cool, unlike Mara/Sents with defensive skills on much shorter, repeatable cooldown.

 

2. Guardians/Juggs need to be on the much limiting Soresu form to get the armor boost. Without Soresu, the baseline mitigation provided by heavy armor is not dramatically higher than what a medium armor of the same tier provides.

 

3. Soresu itself limits the frequency of attack. It provides 1 focus generation per every 6 seconds upon enemy attack, at the price of -1 focus generation from every focus generating skill. Compare it with Shien.

 

4. Many of Mara/Sent skills feature armor penetrating - all bleed/burn effects, as well as Gore/Precision Slash totally negate armor, whereas Jugg/Guardians are severely limited in such skills.

 

 

So simply by bridging the overall dps of these two different classes with a tree, while having different types of armor, would immediately imply an imbalance as you understand. Jugg's and Mara's cant have similar dps even on dps tree/gear, cause they have different ways of spreading the damage in the battlefield. Jugg's have heavy armor so they need to deal alittle bit less while gaining an advantage of their increased survivability. Mara's on the other hand have more, but die quicker. Thats how its supposed to be balanced.

 

And that's exactly how it is, except the Mara/Sents dieing quicker part.... since non-Soresu Guardian/Juggs are the ones who hold real damage potential that may match Mara/Sents, except these die even faster than Mara/Sents.

Edited May 2, 2012 by kweassa

[HarryTr]

1. Guardians and Juggs pay for their DPS by having 0 means of self defense outside the 2 min cool, unlike Mara/Sents with defensive skills on much shorter, repeatable cooldown.

 

2. Guardians/Juggs need to be on the much limiting Soresu form to get the armor boost. Without Soresu, the baseline mitigation provided by heavy armor is not dramatically higher than what a medium armor of the same tier provides.

 

3. ....

 

What exactly is on shorter CD than 2m? the big bubble is 3m cd. And i sense some certainty about the "not dramatically" higher diff in armor penetration, that you would be required to moderate. Keep in mind that for a mara to gain 5-6% more damage reduction pays for a whole tree respec, so i wouldnt be that naive to underestimate that diff.

 

Slash and dots ignore armor? . Maybe you meant something else? For 6s after using Gore everything ignores armor, but i think you can escape those 6s easily. Plus thats a very specific tree, and DoTS arent coupled with that, thats a diff tree.

Edited May 2, 2012 by HarryTr
The poster filled his initial post with more info

[Darthshnooky]

Clearly there is a lack of reading comprehension in this thread. It's obviously a satirical post. It starts off a bit subtle, but by the end it's so clear you'd have to not actually read the post to think the OP is serious. Edited May 2, 2012 by Darthshnooky

[ItGetsAllOver]

Effective troll is effective.

[TalkingDinosaur]

How long before people realize that is a troll thread...

 

My guess is that PvPers now have bots that just /agree with any thread that has a title: (class name) is OP.

Edited May 2, 2012 by TalkingDinosaur

[HanfordBlows]

Hehe nice post OP

 

Winner!

 

Can't believe how many sheep we have on these forums...

 

And for my next trick, a post on how overpowered mercenaries are!

[HanfordBlows]

And to think this OP actually started a pseudo-intellectual conversation.

 

This game... Sigh...

[FalcoLombardi]

I am not buying it...Everyone says juggs/guardians are useless.

 

Pshaw, they're great at carrying the huttball and protecting the holder. Also good at guarding a capture point with a healer or something like an operative, or heading into the main point where everyone is and reducing the damage your team takes so they can last longer. Of course this is a tank's view, only get about 80-120K (<--- good game) damage

[HarryTr]

Winner!

 

Can't believe how many sheep we have on these forums...

 

And for my next trick, a post on how overpowered mercenaries are!

 

If i post that the world is on economy crisis, and people start chatting about it, i would have sheep as chatters?

[fatburn]

How truly sad people took this post seriously. The MMO community is definitely not what was in the glory days before WOW came. I doubt we will ever get back to a community MMO's once had. It is what it is I guess, sad...

[Yurn]

The thing with this my friend is that, even though Jugg has 2 dps trees, mara's have to pay for their dps wearing medium armor. So simply by bridging the overall dps of these two different classes with a tree, while having different types of armor, would immediately imply an imbalance as you understand. Jugg's and Mara's cant have similar dps even on dps tree/gear, cause they have different ways of spreading the damage in the battlefield. Jugg's have heavy armor so they need to deal alittle bit less while gaining an advantage of their increased survivability. Mara's on the other hand have more, but die quicker. Thats how its supposed to be balanced.

 

No actually no, heavy armour does not count for **** - lots of attacks actually ignore armour anyways thus making it redundant.

 

With your logic, maur and jugg should have a close fight ? no no no, you shall die.. no but really maurs win everytime.

[Cegenaus]

juggs are beasts in huttball right now. two leaps, a push, and 5 seconds of cc immunity. if they get past the first burner youre better off waiting for the ball to reset

[mahnmut]

4). Force Grip - Force Choke no longer needs to be channeled, however, there is a 95% chance that this could backfire and you may choke yourself.

 

I would love to see this implemented lol

[Dayshadow]

Let me explain, I have been noticing that many players have been getting killed by Juggs, and complaining about how we are unstoppable. Therefore, I have made a list of changes that I believe Bioware should consider.

 

Abilities:

1). Vicious slash - Reduce the damage by 30% and increase the rage cost by 2.

2). Force Charge - Increase the CD on force charge by 35 seconds, and increase the damage we take after using force charge by 75%.

3). Smash - Increase the CD on smash by 3 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 15%. Also, increase the time it takes to land a hit with this move by 75%.

4). Saber Ward - Increase the CD by 5 extra minutes and have it require 5 rage to use.

5). Force Scream - Reduce damage done by 10% and increase the CD by 33%.

6). Ravage - Increase the CD by 60 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 95%.

7). Threatening Scream - Increase the CD by 15 seconds, and have it cost 3 rage.

8). Impale - Reduce the damage of this move by 55%, and increase the CD by 7 seconds.

9). Crash - Add that back in, without it, we are actually efficient in combat.

10). Force Choke - Increase the CD by 30 seconds, and have it build 0 rage.

11). Unleash - Increase the CD by 33 seconds.

12). Force Push - After using Force push, make sure that we cannot move/charge afterwords.

 

Talents:

 

Rage:

 

1). Payback - Even after the stealth nerf, oh, I mean buff, we are still able to heal ourselves. Reduce healing by 5%.

2). Shockwave - Allow Shockwave to only stack up to 2 times. Oh, and reduce the damage of the buff by half.

3). Force Crush - Remove the reduction of speed. It is good sportsmanship to allow an enemy to run away.

 

Vengeance:

 

1). Ruin - Remove this talent.(Replace with Ruined - Reduces damage dealt by 35%)

2). Pooled Hatred - Remove this talent.(Replace with Sadness - Reduces your running speed by 10%)

3). Savagery - Reduce the critical hit chance of force scream and vicious throw by 30%.

4). Rampage - Remove this talent.(Replace with Kindess - Restores enemy health back to max)

 

Immortal:

 

1). Invincible - Increase the CD by 2 minutes. Also, reduce damage taken by 20%.

2). Sonic Barrer - Remove this talent.(Replace with Gift Giving - Places a barrier on the enemy target to shield them from incoming attacks)

3). Thrown gauntlet - Increases the CD of Force Push by 90 seconds.

4). Force Grip - Force Choke no longer needs to be channeled, however, there is a 95% chance that this could backfire and you may choke yourself.

 

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa... HA!

 

LOL

[MorgothQuick]

juggs are beasts in huttball right now. two leaps, a push, and 5 seconds of cc immunity. if they get past the first burner youre better off waiting for the ball to reset

 

Its 4 seconds not 5, and only 1 spec has it, not all 3.

Edited May 2, 2012 by MorgothQuick

[MMOgamer]

No actually no, heavy armour does not count for **** - lots of attacks actually ignore armour anyways thus making it redundant.

 

With your logic, maur and jugg should have a close fight ? no no no, you shall die.. no but really maurs win everytime.

 

The juggs on your server must suck then. Good juggs can beat a mara.

[kweassa]

What exactly is on shorter CD than 2m? the big bubble is 3m cd.

 

Typo. 3 mins, it is. Guardian/Juggs have access to Saber Ward every 3 mins, which Mara/Sents also have.

They get an extra 40% damage reduction for 10 seconds or so - but only if they take 11 point investment into the tanking tree. This will block access to final tier of the other 2 Damage skill trees.

 

Outside that, nothing. We don't have GBF, we don't have Rebuke, we don't have stealth, we don't have pacify.

 

 

And i sense some certainty about the "not dramatically" higher diff in armor penetration, that you would be required to moderate. Keep in mind that for a mara to gain 5-6% more damage reduction pays for a whole tree respec, so i wouldnt be that naive to underestimate that diff.

 

Who the *** cares how much Mara/Sentinels have to 'invest"'? The only thing matters is the actual effect, in which case my BM/WH mix Guardian at Soresu shows around 49% damage reduction from armor, whereas if I change over to Shien or Shicho, it would show around 30~33%. Supposing hefty hits incoming from SWTOR powerhouses, typically around 4k damage, Soresu would be hit for around 2000~2100, whereas Shicho or Shien would be hit for around 2,700~2,800 (not with standing reduction from expertise).

 

Besides, without Soresu shielding and defense is worthless.

 

 

Slash and dots ignore armor? . Maybe you meant something else?

 

All the extra elemental and bleed damage from Watchman/Annihilate, ignore armor.

 

For 6s after using Gore everything ignores armor, but i think you can escape those 6s easily.

 

Cop-out. Under that logic, Focus tree Force Sweep attacks aren't so bad. Just move out of the way everytime. Simple.

 

 

Plus thats a very specific tree, and DoTS arent coupled with that, thats a diff tree.

 

Q: Guess what happens when you are hit with the very basic and simple Precision Slash-Master Strike combo, fortified with extra Ataru attacks, with an overloaded light saber that opens up a 3-stack overload debuff on you during the combo, and then being finished with Blade Storm during combat-trance as a finishing move while you are using a non-Soresu saber form with a Guardian or Jugg.

 

A: The same thing that happens to a light/mid armor class being hit by Mara/Sents - near-death within 8 seconds of first contact.

Edited May 2, 2012 by kweassa

[Viciouskillr]

I think it is less juggs and more tanks in general. The best specs for each tanking class seems to be universally their tanking tree. These trees generally give them a good bit of extra control/mobility, crazy survivability, but little drop off on damage. Tanks in swtor across the board honestly do a bit too much damage. Currently, any 1v1 fight with a tank specced class will end with the tank winning 9 times out of 10.

 

The simplest solution would be to stick a flat damage reduction on every tank stance (with an appropriate threat buff to not effect PvE). In an ideal world, a dps should be able to beat a tank of equal skill half the time, same goes for the tank. Tanks get the privilege of being able to live longer, they should not have comparable damage to a dps specced player. The idea is not to force people to lay tanks in PvP because they are the best, but rather pick if they would rather do more damage or be able to take more damage, not both.

 

u must not play a marauder i faceroll everyone with little effort

[Xinika]

Let me explain, I have been noticing that many players have been getting killed by Juggs, and complaining about how we are unstoppable. Therefore, I have made a list of changes that I believe Bioware should consider.

 

Abilities:

1). Vicious slash - Reduce the damage by 30% and increase the rage cost by 2.

2). Force Charge - Increase the CD on force charge by 35 seconds, and increase the damage we take after using force charge by 75%.

3). Smash - Increase the CD on smash by 3 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 15%. Also, increase the time it takes to land a hit with this move by 75%.

4). Saber Ward - Increase the CD by 5 extra minutes and have it require 5 rage to use.

5). Force Scream - Reduce damage done by 10% and increase the CD by 33%.

6). Ravage - Increase the CD by 60 seconds, and reduce the damage dealt by 95%.

7). Threatening Scream - Increase the CD by 15 seconds, and have it cost 3 rage.

8). Impale - Reduce the damage of this move by 55%, and increase the CD by 7 seconds.

9). Crash - Add that back in, without it, we are actually efficient in combat.

10). Force Choke - Increase the CD by 30 seconds, and have it build 0 rage.

11). Unleash - Increase the CD by 33 seconds.

12). Force Push - After using Force push, make sure that we cannot move/charge afterwords.

 

Talents:

 

Rage:

 

1). Payback - Even after the stealth nerf, oh, I mean buff, we are still able to heal ourselves. Reduce healing by 5%.

2). Shockwave - Allow Shockwave to only stack up to 2 times. Oh, and reduce the damage of the buff by half.

3). Force Crush - Remove the reduction of speed. It is good sportsmanship to allow an enemy to run away.

 

Vengeance:

 

1). Ruin - Remove this talent.(Replace with Ruined - Reduces damage dealt by 35%)

2). Pooled Hatred - Remove this talent.(Replace with Sadness - Reduces your running speed by 10%)

3). Savagery - Reduce the critical hit chance of force scream and vicious throw by 30%.

4). Rampage - Remove this talent.(Replace with Kindess - Restores enemy health back to max)

 

Immortal:

 

1). Invincible - Increase the CD by 2 minutes. Also, reduce damage taken by 20%.

2). Sonic Barrer - Remove this talent.(Replace with Gift Giving - Places a barrier on the enemy target to shield them from incoming attacks)

3). Thrown gauntlet - Increases the CD of Force Push by 90 seconds.

4). Force Grip - Force Choke no longer needs to be channeled, however, there is a 95% chance that this could backfire and you may choke yourself.

 

This thread is a success.

[Cegenaus]

Its 4 seconds not 5, and only 1 spec has it, not all 3.

 

immortal im assuming then?

[RTCBrad]

Saber throw doing 4 to 5k? Um No! Not even close. This post was designed to make fun of you...and unfortunately you and many nerf callers like you rose to the occasion. If your losing to Juggers in a 1v1 fight then you are missing how to counter them....Its pretty easy to knock them off their game.

My Merc can decimate a Jugger or a Mara as long as I pay attention...Mercs are super squishy and easy to shut down but I still down Juggers and Mara's all the time...Whats your excuse?

 

Best part of this is Juggers only have one real defensive CD..Saber Ward...Defening defense can only be used while still doing any dmg at all by full Veng. Specs....Which are not "Tanks" .

 

I'll just reply to one of these incredibly dumb responses.

 

For starters, yes clearly I got the skill names mixed up congrats instead of addressing the point you would rather be pedantic, that's fine I expect nothing more from the people on these forums quite honestly.

 

If you beat Juggs and Mara's all the time then quite frankly you are playing with noobs or you are lying, I won't comment any more on that.

 

The 2 highest dpsers in warzones Juggs (heavy armor, defensive cd's) and Maras (defensive CD's which include being invincible for 6 seconds and can do about 10k damage in around 4-6 seconds). If you think that's balanced then you have clearly played some borked MMOs in your time.

 

Oh and to the guy the guy that thought I mixed up Maras and Juggs, you are stupid beyond belief that is all.

 

EDIT:

 

i call bs deadly sabre hits hard and thats a finisher the hardest hit on sabre throw is 2k i have had learn about a class before you type i have played a veng jugg for 4 months now and we are not at all op i can win 50% of time against a pt due to my defensive cooldowns but a marauder has more cooldowns so if we are op whats a marauder learn before you open your mouth noob

 

Had to reply to this made me laugh. You are a Jugg and only win 50% of the time? Yet I'm the noob? Lmao, seriously one of the bests post I've read lately. I'm shocked the irony in this post didn't crash the forum. Thanks for the laugh, you scrub.

Edited May 2, 2012 by RTCBrad