To all the people complaining about Marauders/Sentinels...

[Jatne]

You mad they aren't all still playing Sorcs/Sages?!

 

Seriously, the biggest problem with this game is the community. It is much easier to cry and get nerfs than learn to play. Did you even bother to realise that two of the Marauders/Sentinel specs can do zero, yes NO damage to you if you sit between 5-8m from them? Their melee is all 0-4m and their charge is 10-30m with only three abilities inside that range. Anyone who has problems surviving against Saber Throw, Force Scream is actually bad at this game. Period.

 

Do you know how you interrupt Master Strike/Ravage? You CC.

 

When you see their six second 99% damage invuln come up... you kite. When you see their retaliation bubble up you don't hit them, you slow and run. It's really not hard, I am nowhere near the best player in game and I have very little difficulty beating these classes.

 

Did you know the most important thing vs. Marauders is your snare? Sorcs/Sages have no reason to EVER lose vs. a Mara/Sent if they aren't purely group spec. If they are purely group spec, then... crazy thought, the group is responsible for doing -80% damage reduction from Guard/Taunt and peeling.

 

Haters gonna hate, but, bads will be bads. This game is SO over simplified a well trained chimp could go rank one. Activate the grey cells and l2p instead of QQing.

 

This is the same community that complained Maras/Sents were underpowered not three months ago. And for anyone who actually read and comprehended the changes to MARA/SENT as a CLASS you realise they gave +15% damage of Master Strike/Ravage it is NOT the class that OP it is the percieved change in EXPERTISE and the reduction in PvP HEALING that is causing the QQ.

 

p.s. if you think this game is fast paced, it is lucky you never played Age of Conan at launch.

[Archturus]

You are OP, get over it.

[Jatne]

You are OP, get over it.

 

I play Deception Assassin. Well, I actually play Infiltration Shadow because Empire is over populated. Nice try though. Move along.

 

p.s. u mirin' my logic bro?

Edited April 30, 2012 by Jatne

[Kovaos]

Wow what a lot of useful and original information. I don't think anyone has even tried to snare a marauder before. I need to call the "beat me up" hotline.

[Jatne]

Wow what a lot of useful and original information. I don't think anyone has even tried to snare a marauder before. I need to call the "beat me up" hotline.

 

Sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. I decided to make a thread on the issue in the hopes that if this information was reposted for the millionth time, the average Joe ex-WoW player(s) may actually take the time to read and comprehend it.

 

Do I need to start making instructional videos "How to PvP for Dummies"? I mean I will if it's what it takes to get out of this dogmatic "NERF DAT CLASS CUZ OP MONGO SMASH" mentality that is actually choking this game.

 

If I had $1 for every turret mage I see in this game, I could probably have got my six month subscription + Collectors Edition free.

[Kovaos]

You are beating a dead horse.

 

Please no me makes fun of way me speak.

[Jatne]

This game is on it's way to being a 'dead horse' the community (at least active on the forums) is one of the worst I have ever seen in almost ten years of playing MMORPGs.

 

Until now I have never had the experience of people who would rather post ten threads on how some class needs a nerf, instead of three threads on how a class can be countered.

 

I cannot believe this is an example of the same humanity that clawed it's way out of the Dark Ages, through numerous plagues and world wars... only to give up at the sheer atrocity that is class balance in MMORPGs.

[Darth_Philar]

When I (a healer) and my friend go up against 2 other players the winner is usually determined by the skill of either us or them.

 

When we go up against a single Marauder/Sentinel I can't outheal his DPS. Either I or my friend will always, 100% of the time die, and the survivor will die too when we are facing a skilled one (not too many of those, but they do exist and they do melt face).

 

When a freecasting healer can't negate the damage you output when you are doing a basic rotation you are not correctly balanced.

 

People calling for nerfs is not what is going to get your class nerfed. It is the fact that you are not balanced right now.

[Jatne]

When I (a healer) and my friend go up against 2 other players the winner is usually determined by the skill of either us or them.

 

When we go up against a single Marauder/Sentinel I can't outheal his DPS. Either I or my friend will always, 100% of the time die, and the survivor will die too when we are facing a skilled one (not too many of those, but they do exist and they do melt face).

 

When a freecasting healer can't negate the damage you output when you are doing a basic rotation you are not correctly balanced.

 

People calling for nerfs is not what is going to get your class nerfed. It is the fact that you are not balanced right now.

 

If you cannot win a 2 vs. 1 with a Marauder/Sentinel (And you are geared above 1k Expertise) you are low skilled. What server are you on? I will make a character on it and we can discuss how you can improve your tactics.

 

Infact I would go one step further, if a healer cannot keep a player (who is kiting appropriately) up in a 2 vs. 1 they are a very bad healer.

 

p.s. why do people assume I play this class? For the second time, I play Infiltration Shadow and I have very little problem fighting them.

 

p.p.s. Please, please I am absolutely on the edge of my seat to know which classes cannot beat a Marauder/Sentinel 2 vs. 1?

[Darianth]

When I (a healer) and my friend go up against 2 other players the winner is usually determined by the skill of either us or them.

 

When we go up against a single Marauder/Sentinel I can't outheal his DPS. Either I or my friend will always, 100% of the time die, and the survivor will die too when we are facing a skilled one (not too many of those, but they do exist and they do melt face).

 

When a freecasting healer can't negate the damage you output when you are doing a basic rotation you are not correctly balanced.

 

People calling for nerfs is not what is going to get your class nerfed. It is the fact that you are not balanced right now.

 

I'm not an expert but that sounds like a l2p issue and the marauder would have had to pop all CDs as well as medpacks and adrenals. To get the burst necessary to out dps your heals he wouldve had to pop all relics and adrenals and crit all at once but even then you should be able to heal that. Does your friend know what a stun is?

Edited April 30, 2012 by Darianth

[VoidJustice]

If you cannot win a 2 vs. 1 with a Marauder/Sentinel (And you are geared above 1k Expertise) you are low skilled.

 

I can at times win a 1 v 2. Usually thou I have to pull some kind of crazy gimic out... like having adrenal plus Wz boost or using a medpack or LOS the hell out of one and awe'ing one, push one off a cliff lulz... etc...

 

I do it all... with only 1 saber... but I do have a HUGE augment in my pants.. so... Im sure that has something to do with it...

 

:wea_03:

[Jatne]

I can at times win a 1 v 2. Usually thou I have to pull some kind of crazy gimic out... like having adrenal plus Wz boost or using a medpack or LOS the hell out of one and awe'ing one, push one off a cliff lulz... etc...

 

I do it all... with only 1 saber... but I do have a HUGE augment in my pants.. so... Im sure that has something to do with it...

 

:wea_03:

 

No disrespect intended, but, anyone can 1 vs. 2 when they are vs. bads. When you fight players of equal skill (and by skill I mean class knowledge and gear level) you won't be pulling many 2 vs. 1 victories.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Jatne

[VoidJustice]

No disrespect intended, but, anyone can 1 vs. 2 when they are vs. bads. When you fight players of equal skill (and by skill I mean class knowledge and gear level) you won't be pulling many 2 vs. 1 victories.

 

notice the number of caviots I put in that statement.... LOS, Wz boosts, Med packs, the kitchen sink, w/ Your Mom jokes at my first target to catch them typing... etc...

 

still thou ... the augment helps... :wea_03:

[Leafy_Bug]

I am a dps shadow, 2 31 8 with the ocassional 31 0 10. I have nothing against marauders eventho in my last warzone there were 7 of them. It was quite funny with me in combat technique, bm shield, deflection and rakata absorb adrenal holding the turret by myself and them mashing the same strike over and over.

 

1 v1 i kill marauders but what annoys me is their arrogance as of late. They leap to you all brave, build up their rotation, choke you, smash you, then you pop your cds, breach the sucker for 4k and 2x3k upheaval. What will he do? He will cloak and run to his healer. This is the new trend.

 

My complaint is not against marauders it is against the lack of healers and stupidity you find since 1.2. As soon as people see 4-5 marauders they quit the warzone. Yesterday we were 7 shadows with one sentinel vs 6 marauders and 2 assassins. They had no chance against us. Absolutely no chance!

 

can at times win a 1 v 2. Usually thou I have to pull some kind of crazy gimic out... like having adrenal plus Wz boost or using a medpack or LOS the hell out of one and awe'ing one, push one off a cliff lulz... etc...

 

I do it all... with only 1 saber... but I do have a HUGE augment in my pants.. so... Im sure that has something to do with it...

 

Cool story bro. FYI adrenals + wz expertise buffs are on the same cd . It is one or the other not both.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Leafy_Bug

[Zbus]

You mad they aren't all still playing Sorcs/Sages?!

 

Seriously, the biggest problem with this game is the community. It is much easier to cry and get nerfs than learn to play. Did you even bother to realise that two of the Marauders/Sentinel specs can do zero, yes NO damage to you if you sit between 5-8m from them? Their melee is all 0-4m and their charge is 10-30m with only three abilities inside that range. Anyone who has problems surviving against Saber Throw, Force Scream is actually bad at this game. Period.

 

Do you know how you interrupt Master Strike/Ravage? You CC.

 

When you see their six second 99% damage invuln come up... you kite. When you see their retaliation bubble up you don't hit them, you slow and run. It's really not hard, I am nowhere near the best player in game and I have very little difficulty beating these classes.

 

Did you know the most important thing vs. Marauders is your snare? Sorcs/Sages have no reason to EVER lose vs. a Mara/Sent if they aren't purely group spec. If they are purely group spec, then... crazy thought, the group is responsible for doing -80% damage reduction from Guard/Taunt and peeling.

 

Haters gonna hate, but, bads will be bads. This game is SO over simplified a well trained chimp could go rank one. Activate the grey cells and l2p instead of QQing.

 

This is the same community that complained Maras/Sents were underpowered not three months ago. And for anyone who actually read and comprehended the changes to MARA/SENT as a CLASS you realise they gave +15% damage of Master Strike/Ravage it is NOT the class that OP it is the percieved change in EXPERTISE and the reduction in PvP HEALING that is causing the QQ.

 

p.s. if you think this game is fast paced, it is lucky you never played Age of Conan at launch.

 

Considering all the WZs are group play I dont see how all this advice for 1 on 1 play helps 1 bit. But if you really need to know most people are complaining not because of the damage output of sent/mara but the defensive cool downs which have no buisness being on a top end dps class. No way should a mara/sent have better damage mitigation at any time better than a tank spec class. Now if we must have this skill in game then the correct version should be that the damage output is tied to the damage reduction meaning you want 99% damage mitigation you should suffer from at least 75% damge reduction during that time period.True tanks pay in damage output for thier damage mitigation so should mara's and sents you cant and should not have the best of both worlds.

[Jatne]

I am a dps shadow, 2 31 8 with the ocassional 31 0 10. I have nothing against marauders eventho in my last warzone there were 7 of them. It was quite funny with me in combat technique, bm shield, deflection and rakata absorb adrenal holding the turret by myself and them mashing the same strike over and over.

 

1 v1 i kill marauders but what annoys me is their arrogance as of late. They leap to you all brave, build up their rotation, choke you, smash you, then you pop your cds, breach the sucker for 4k and 2x3k upheaval. What will he do? He will cloak and run to his healer. This is the new trend.

 

My complaint is not against marauders it is against the lack of healers and stupidity you find since 1.2. As soon as people see 4-5 marauders they quit the warzone. Yesterday we were 7 shadows with one sentinel vs 6 marauders and 2 assassins. They had no chance against us. Absolutely no chance!

 

 

 

Cool story bro. FYI adrenals + wz expertise buffs are on the same cd . It is one or the other not both.

 

Sadly, BioWare cannot balance to compensate for people of weak moral character. If they could give weak minded people a backbone, they would have no need to be in the computer game industry.

[Jatne]

Considering all the WZs are group play I dont see how all this advice for 1 on 1 play helps 1 bit. But if you really need to know most people are complaining not because of the damage output of sent/mara but the defensive cool downs which have no buisness being on a top end dps class. No way should a mara/sent have better damage mitigation at any time better than a tank spec class. Now if we must have this skill in game then the correct version should be that the damage output is tied to the damage reduction meaning you want 99% damage mitigation you should suffer from at least 75% damge reduction during that time period.True tanks pay in damage output for thier damage mitigation so should mara's and sents you cant and should not have the best of both worlds.

 

Marauders are actually extremely squishy, minus their cooldowns. Their 99% damage invuln is on a three minute cooldown with their +50% ranged/melee defence and -20% Force/Tech damage bubble being on about the same. Their 30 second retaliatory damage mit + reactive damage drops if you don't hit them for 8 yes eight seconds. That is the duration of one stun + two seconds.

 

The ONLY damage that matters in PvP is spike damage. DoT damage (whilst padding stats) does not kill people. Spike damage is the lord and master of PvP.

 

It is very easy to avoid Marauder/Sentintel spike damage. As they have very little and it required chaining abilities that should not be possible due to cross healing/tauntung/CCing all of which either negate their limited spike or prevent it altogether.

 

I hope this helped clear up any misunderstanding(s) you had about class balance.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Jatne

[Swarna]

I be mirin' your aesthetics, bro.

[Stongrel]

When you see their six second 99% damage invuln come up... you kite.

Stopped reading right there. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Hethroin]

Marauders are actually extremely squishy, minus their cooldowns. Their 99% damage invuln is on a three minute cooldown with their +50% ranged/melee defence and -20% Force/Tech damage bubble being on about the same. Their 30 second retaliatory damage mit + reactive damage drops if you don't hit them for 8 yes eight seconds. That is the duration of one stun + two seconds.

 

The ONLY damage that matters in PvP is spike damage. DoT damage (whilst padding stats) does not kill people. Spike damage is the lord and master of PvP.

 

It is very easy to avoid Marauder/Sentintel spike damage. As they have very little and it required chaining abilities that should not be possible due to cross healing/tauntung/CCing all of which either negate their limited spike or prevent it altogether.

 

I hope this helped clear up any misunderstanding(s) you had about class balance.

 

Trolololo!

 

Leap > Overload Saber > Zealot Strike > Cauterize > Master Strike > Merciless Slash > Dispatch.

 

That rotation will kill anything that isn't tank spec or guarded, and fails to react during the first 1.5 seconds of Master Strike. The majority of the damage coming in with the last 3 abilities.

 

Fact is you can stack dots and still hit things for ~6k with Master Strike followed immediately by a Merciless slash for another 4k. This is very decent burst damage, as around 8k of it happens within 1 GCD.

[Roanic]

Seriously, the biggest problem with this game is the community. It is much easier to cry and get nerfs than learn to play. Did you even bother to realise that two of the Marauders/Sentinel specs can do zero, yes NO damage to you if you sit between 5-8m from them? Their melee is all 0-4m and their charge is 10-30m with only three abilities inside that range. Anyone who has problems surviving against Saber Throw, Force Scream is actually bad at this game. Period.

 

Force Camouflage

Predation

Crippling Slash

Force Crush

Force Charge

Force Choke

Intimidating Roar

 

All of those either speed the marauder, slow the target or mez the target. I realize one of them is spec dependent from a less taken tree, the rest are stock standard.

 

I play a Pyro Merc. The most mobile of the merc classes and a extremely mobile class in general. It is impossible to kite a Marauder with any clue on how to play their class.

 

Charge to slash and I have a 12 second slow on me. If I see them coming and perfectly time my knockback they choke or roar me til the slow clears. They can force camo to catch me, obfuscate to stop me from being able to hit them to apply my snare... the list goes on and on.

 

I would love to hear how a marauder gets kited.

[Zbus]

Marauders are actually extremely squishy, minus their cooldowns. Their 99% damage invuln is on a three minute cooldown with their +50% ranged/melee defence and -20% Force/Tech damage bubble being on about the same. Their 30 second retaliatory damage mit + reactive damage drops if you don't hit them for 8 yes eight seconds. That is the duration of one stun + two seconds.

 

The ONLY damage that matters in PvP is spike damage. DoT damage (whilst padding stats) does not kill people. Spike damage is the lord and master of PvP.

 

It is very easy to avoid Marauder/Sentintel spike damage. As they have very little and it required chaining abilities that should not be possible due to cross healing/tauntung/CCing all of which either negate their limited spike or prevent it altogether.

 

I hope this help clear up any misunderstanding(s) you had about class balance.

 

Again this is a group pvp game 1 on 1 tactics mean very little. And most players are not gripeing about spike damage of mara's. They are a dps class and in this area they are balanced with other classes like say PT's the big diffrence between the 2 though is the defensive cool downs. PT are squishy in damage spec GS/snipers are squishy do they also have grounds for asking for 99 % damage mitigation skills?

 

By the way listing the times for each cool down does not answer the question of why a DPS has better defensive cooldowns than a tank spec class at anytime while still retaining overall dps. And if squishy is the reply then show why other dps classes who are just as squishy dont have it. Answer that question and you will have cleared things up.

[Zilrota]

Hello everyone,

 

We are closing this thread. While we understand that players can be frustrated with the community at times, please understand that threads like this tend to result in flame wars and have little room for constructive discussion. In the future, we encourage you to create threads that foster constructive discussion and not ones which criticize the community.

 

We appreciate your understanding that we've closed this thread!