CatNips Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Are we going to see any rebalancing love for Mercenary Arsenal? Our damage is poop compared to what it was or what it is intended to be. Pretty much the only thing we had was damage, since our survivability and utility sucks. I understand it is difficult to balance PvE And PvP at the same time, but it really isn't fair to be pooped on in either case. I was glad to see the tracer missile changes to try to influence a more dynamic rotation, but the last updates have just diminished the only thing we had going in PvP. Most of the other damaging classes/specs do more effective damage AND have more utility. Either keep the damage the way it is and give us more utility, or just give us more damage and leave us as sentry turrets, but just gimping the snot out of our damage and expecting us to sit still and do mediocre damage while other people are shredding is just moronic. You have a select few individuals in the community saying, "No we are fine." Then you have an overwhelming out-cry from your subscribers that things really need to be looked at and changed. I really doubt that every single person in the larger out-cry is a "bad", while the select few are just elite killing machines, so trying to argue that it is a case of skill, or the lack of, really isn't the problem, the class and its mechanics are. I'm not asking to be OP or FOTM, I'm just asking for my mechanics to work properly and reasonably. If you think the changes are reasonable, try playing and watching others. Watch their damage, think of their capability, think of their utilities and everything the class has to offer, then take a long look at Mercenary Arsenal and these previously stated things. Any and all criticisms are welcome. Sincerely, One of your subscribers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuadul Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Our damage is poop compared to what it was or what it is intended to be. You have some insight on what it is 'intended' to be that we don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatNips Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) You have some insight on what it is 'intended' to be that we don't? Well you see, considering our lack of diversity in abilities, one could assume that we are intended to do large amounts of damage, atleast that would be the implication of having a lack of diversity in utility, or do you not agree? I suppose they could have intended for the spec to have little to zero utility and do subpar damage comparably to others that do have utility. Edited April 29, 2012 by CatNips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroecon Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Well you see, considering our lack of diversity in abilities, one could assume that we are intended to do large amounts of damage, atleast that would be the implication of having a lack of diversity in utility, or do you not agree? I suppose they could have intended for the spec to have little to zero utility and do subpar damage comparably to others that do have utility. Merc Arsenal is doing more damage than it ever has based on meta averages. That's because all the poor performing Arsenal players quit after 1.2. And that's why Arsenal got a second nerf in 1.2c. Nerfs INCREASE class performance as measured by meta averages. Correspondingly that's why melee dps will continue to get buffed. The surge of new, poor performing, poorly geared players into those subclasses virtually guarantees their meta average productivity will remain low and will attract further buffing from BW. Indeed Zoeller is already on record as stating that they will increase TTK which is a melee dps buff and a ranged dps nerf since that increases the percentage of combat time that is at close range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnisLupus Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) Merc Arsenal is doing more damage than it ever has based on meta averages. That's because all the poor performing Arsenal players quit after 1.2. And that's why Arsenal got a second nerf in 1.2c. Nerfs INCREASE class performance as measured by meta averages. Correspondingly that's why melee dps will continue to get buffed. The surge of new, poor performing, poorly geared players into those subclasses virtually guarantees their meta average productivity will remain low and will attract further buffing from BW. Indeed Zoeller is already on record as stating that they will increase TTK which is a melee dps buff and a ranged dps nerf since that increases the percentage of combat time that is at close range. What?!?! Do you have any clue what you are jabbering on about? ONE ability was hitting harder than it was, while others were hitting LESS.... now that is not even the case, now the ability that WAS hitting harder is hitting for LESS, NO ONE has proven that merc was doing MORE DPS after 1.2, why are you making stuff up? Edited April 29, 2012 by Ellvaan Rude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malorific Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) What?!?! Do you have any clue what you are jabbering on about? ONE ability was hitting harder than it was, while others were hitting LESS.... now that is not even the case, now the ability that WAS hitting harder is hitting for LESS, NO ONE has proven that merc was doing MORE DPS after 1.2, why are you making stuff up? No Mate, I think you are missing the point about what he is making here. He is talking about META Averages......when the class is easy to play all the people that are not skilled play it - if its easy then the overall dmg is high. When they nerfed it, it no longer became desirable to play and therefore many people rerolled - leaving only the hardcore Troopers/Bountyhunters left. As these people were skilled, they did higher average dmg than the unskilled. With the departure of the unskilled they also made up a far higher amount of the player base and therefore the average dmg in METRICS went up while personal dmg went down. When all those unskilled go join the ranks of the Sents/Maur etc etc they increase the player base there and there lower dmg reduces the average dmg in the METRICS for those class = they get a buff. Even though they still have the good players pulling high numbers and worse have the ability to do it......as Troopers/Mercs we can not even hit those numbers. So he is talking about average group DPS rather than individual DPS. What really gets me is this: "(b) In response to your feedback, we’ve re-tested all classes to ensure they are falling within our desired DPS targets and found one issue with Demo Round / Heatseeker Missile which was getting increased DPS, not just from other people’s stacks but also from an unwanted interaction with other skills. That issue was corrected in the 1.2.0c patch this week." Taken from Dev posts made by Georg "Observer" Zoeller Principal Lead Combat Designer He says quite clearly here that they retested everything and they found that DR/HSM was doing to much dmg. I agree with this, I was hitting 8k on Demo Rounds at one point! http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/f4645fe1-1663-4f8a-92cb-50dca88368b8#d=0,b=1 Problem is that even with THAT "buff" we were still no where near close to the Melee output, taken it away I now have to work very hard to keep up with the ranged. Its once again about how they balance PVP and PVE....since we can burst people down very fast in PVP - but this kind of burst is not sustainable in PVE and we suffer greatly for it. Hopefully with some tweaking they will get it right in the near future. In the meantime I have respecced to Assault/Pyro for PVE to see how that does. Mal. Edited April 29, 2012 by Ellvaan Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sensiblepoast Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 You have some insight on what it is 'intended' to be that we don't? I do, it's called biowares statements. 1. bioware: blah blah blah we feel dps is where it should after the ne...readjustment 2. nerf dr/heatseeker 3. nerf dr again logic tells us dps will have to be down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatNips Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Taken from Dev posts made by Georg "Observer" Zoeller Principal Lead Combat Designer He says quite clearly here that they retested everything and they found that DR/HSM was doing to much dmg. I agree that the abilities were doing more damage than they should have to begin with, but now they do too little. They are supposed to be a 31 point talent ability, now HsM seems far less than what a final tier ability should be worth. This is especially true when considering we are supposed to stack appropriate buffs/debuffs to maximize its potential. By the time you have this lined up, you have other classes that can take out larger percentages of health, in shorter periods of time, while having movement and utility. ....since we can burst people down very fast in PVP I disagree with this statement. Could we before the changes? Yes. I would describe our "burst" as mediocre at best now since the damage appears to be reduced so much, which really isn't acceptable considering the lack of utility, movement, and the ease to block the single move(Tracer Missile) that is used to create a synergy with all the rest of the damaging abilities and their mechanics, i.e.: Debuffing Armor, Unload procs, increasing HsM damage, and increasing Rail Shot damage. I find my "burst" isn't close to comparable with other classes that have to face less difficulties and restraints on the playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeblows Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 im in all war hero gear.... 12/12.... and my damage has never been lower.... ill keep at the class until i get tired enough and reroll like all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatNips Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 ill keep at the class until i get tired enough and reroll like all the others. I hear you, friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ifrit Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Agreed. IMO we need more burst dps to make up for our recent nerf to barrier/knockback. However, I would be happy if we were at least on par with our classes for dps. Currently we have almost no shot at winning a 1v1 (assuming the other player is equally as skilled and geared) vs any other class (all melee **** us, and sniper/sorc out dps us). While I am content not winning 1v1's often, we need to at least be useful to the group overall. Because we are the EASIEST class to shutdown/counter, we need to have the highest dps in order to make up for when we are actually free to do our job (dps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatNips Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 This. all melee **** us, and sniper/sorc out dps us. And this. While I am content not winning 1v1's often, we need to at least be useful to the group overall. And also this. Because we are the EASIEST class to shutdown/counter, we need to have the highest dps in order to make up for when we are actually free to do our job (dps). I couldn't agree with you any more. I think a large portion of our community feels the exact same way. We were made to be turrets, and instead of shooting devastating missiles (is there any other kind?), we seem to be shooting pellets, especially in comparison to the other damaging roles. Something about the talent tree needs to be adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNoGood Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Mercenary If the best defense is a good offense, the Mercenary’s got the most intimidating defense in the galaxy. Heavily-modded blasters and deadly heatseeking missiles make the Mercenary a mobile heavy weapons platform. There’s no problem extra firepower can’t solve, and no one who knows what he’s doing gets between a Mercenary and his target. :mad::mad: at less thats what they said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatNips Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Mercenary If the best defense is a good offense, the Mercenary’s got the most intimidating defense in the galaxy. Heavily-modded blasters and deadly heatseeking missiles make the Mercenary a mobile heavy weapons platform. There’s no problem extra firepower can’t solve, and no one who knows what he’s doing gets between a Mercenary and his target. :mad::mad: at less thats what they said Hey, but at least we get a Flamethrower right? Oh wait...that sucks too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enkaizu Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Mercenary: mobile heavy weapons platform. YEAH OK, I wish. I switched from sniper to Merc in hopes it was more run & gun style gameplay but as I hit 50 I noticed we have one gap maker (Jet Boost) and NO abilities that directly snare or root the target. Just let me kite, that would solve a lot of my problems vs melee in pvp. Edited April 30, 2012 by Enkaizu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Gao_Gao Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) it's pretty tough being a merc right now. we pretty much get out dps'd by sorc's, yet they have literally double our utility. our only defense against marauders and sents is jetblast, 1 instant stun, and 1 cast stun. maybe rocket punch. the only chance we have against these players is if we have power surge available, which enables us to get 1 tracer missile off without being interrupted. then we can run around in a circle like a derp, expending our rail shot and nerfed heatseeker, desperately shooting an explosive dart, then pushing 1 for primary attack. it's pretty pathetic. sadly, i've killed many marauders 1v1 in this fashion, which goes to show how bad the players using marauders are despite how OP their class is. yet against anyone with an ounce of intelligence, this tactic fails every time unless it's a map where the jetblast is very effective, like in huttball, or you have a team that knows how to focus targets, and maintain a good overall position, be it in attack or defense (lol). the only reason i stick with my merc is the simple fact that i do not want to be a space mage. arsenal spec is a joke, and so is pyro when you consider that a powertech by far excels a merc pyro's dps. furthermore, pryos are just bad in practice: sure they get good numbers of dps, but none of that actually kills anyone. it's just AOE nd DOT fire damage. at least with arsenal, even in its current bad state, you actually kill people, sort of, sometimes. all that needs to happen is for our tracer debuff to actually apply to our heatseeker. as of now, i'm convinced it is bugged. Edited April 30, 2012 by Darth_Gao_Gao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diddley Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Make power shot instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digimass Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I don't wanna cry about it, but right now the dps is pretty bad for being "the" archetype dps class. I find myself cycling tracer hoping unload resets constantly to try to keep a steady flow of dps for pve. I won't even touch pvp right now. My heatseakers don't seem to be getting the tracer debuff bonus, and powershot with dualies seems a waste and sit off to the side on my action bar. It is necessary for me to be the stable dps in the group. i have a good mix of rakata and colum gear, and still I am lacking where i am suppose to reign supreme. I will not respec to healer just to be useful damnit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xknockx Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 think i'm joining the unsub club till they fix us if they do. if not there is always GW2 which is fun as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roanic Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Just let me kite This times a hundred. A 15 sec cd gap opener to counter force leaps and a 15-20 sec cd short duration root would make this class highly playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattiman Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 This times a hundred. A 15 sec cd gap opener to counter force leaps and a 15-20 sec cd short duration root would make this class highly playable. Eh or burst is still garbage. What's the point in rooting a healer if you can't kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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