Zumangatron Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Hi there! Im an officer from the guild "CHRONOS" in the empire faction of "THE RED ECLIPSE" server. On 26th April around evening time, one officer and a lieutenant went rogue and took most of the items from the Guild Bank, and then proceeded to kick over 120+ members in the guild that were below their guild rank without anyones permission. They also proceeded to call one of our officers a "********er" in the members note. Now since our guild website has just finished development, and is brand new, most the guild members havent been able to join the guild website and we dont have a physical record of the members that were in the guild, we dont remember all of the recruits in the guild we cant invite most of of the 120+ members back. Also, some of the recruits became angry and decided to join other guilds. Now, we have worked really hard in recruiting members and putting stuff into the guild bank and they ruined all of the hard work. so lots of the people in our guild made tickets about the incident asking them to take actions against the two offenders but we have yet to see any actions from bio ware. So, what is your opinion about this? Should the players be banned? Will Bioware be able to handle this situation correctly? How do you think Bioware should handle this situation? Do they even care enough to give us a reply? Edited April 28, 2012 by Ellvaan Circumventing the Filter (pm'd) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelmetHarry Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Whoa, that's harsh Bro. You have my sympathies. On one hand I'm thinking "Yeah, ban those sons of a Gundark!". On the other I think the Guild Leader should have spent more time vetting potential officers. Tough call. I guess the appropriate action is to report it and see what happens. Either way hope it all works out in the end for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammm Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Everything you do in this game leaves traces in the server. Report them and Bioware will unleash their fury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonParker Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Tough luck. For BW it's a question of TOU interpretation, if they even can legally do something. What happened could be viewed as massive harassing, but as it was done without exploiting a glitch or cheating it is hard to judge it legally. Morally you are completely correct to be upset and report the guys. But better don'T get hopes to high for BW getting your stuff back and punishing them, you might get dissapointed. On a more general note I must say, that from my experience mass guilds rarely end well when the leadership does not apply strict rules and in a way cut's the freedom of their members as far as rights in the guild go. Especially important is to know those in the guild that have access to guild belongings and the ability to kick members in person. You have to keep those rights to a select few trustworthy persons otherwise you call for being robbed. That said you're better off with a guild that has at max triple the number of people playing that is needed to fill the biggest possible Operation/PvP Team. If the people usually are online at the same times it's even better to have just the number of needed people in the guild, meaning 16 as far as SWTOR goes. I don't want to personally attack anyone but I learned to dislike mass guilds anyways. More often than not the founders/leadership aim for a mass of members only to be bragging about how they lead the biggest guild in the server/game and they also attract a lot of people that just want to be in to be able to say they're part of the biggest guild. Both in my experience fail as motives for founding/joining a guild. Most of those guilds don't exist long. Choocing mass over class often ends in flamewars and cheat accusations against guilds that choose class over mass. Especially in situation where the max number of people involved per side is cut the latter one usually has the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalyn Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Lol if you've watched any of the Guild Summit videos you'll see 1/2 the devs played or play WoW...I'm fairly certain the company will hold the same beliefs, now wether or not they be banned...I doubt it. But most likely if you report it, it will get escalated and they'll take the items from them that they didn't deposit in the first place and put it back into the guildbank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabaal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 I feel for you but this is why i never understood mass recruitment. If you don't know the people in your guild well enough to even remember their names it's more of a drop in center than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElementalCrisis Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Reasons like this are why the only the GM and AGM should have the ability to withdraw an unlimited amount, It prevents pissed off officers from emptying out vaults. If you don't mind me asking, can you give us anymore details as to these two people suddenly decided to screw over everyone else? I'm just curious to see if this situation could of been prevented. As for BioWare's response to matters such as this, its hard for them to do the "right thing" as something like this becomes a "Your word against mine" case. Here's their official response on the subject. After investigating your report, we regret to inform you that we are unable to return any items or credits which may have been removed from your Guild Bank. Unfortunately, if a player has the appropriate privileges and access rights to remove something from a Guild Bank, they are entitled to do so. As the Guild Leader has complete control over which Guild Members can access each tab of the Guild Bank, and can set weekly withdrawal limits on both of the items and credits based on a player’s Guild Rank, we would respectfully suggest that in light of these events you reassess the access rights of your Guild members to your Guild Bank. Our in-game and web Help Centers both provide helpful walkthroughs on how to adjust these settings (http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter) – but if you would like any additional assistance on this or any other matter, please feel free to contact us again. http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20207-public-service-announcement-mind-your-guild-bank Edited April 28, 2012 by ElementalCrisis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hjonro Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 My guild is quite new to my server and we only make officers who we have real trust in. 1 of our officers went MIA recently, off our friends list and guild lists. We dont know the problem and still havent found him. What now makes me the only officer. My advice: Dont premote too many officers/luitenants, only premote those you trust and have played the game with you for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacen_Starsolo Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Sorry about your luck there. But the guild leader should have been a bit more careful. The leader gave them the ability to do that and when they used that ability, you want them banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WookieBob Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Sorry about your luck there. But the guild leader should have been a bit more careful. The leader gave them the ability to do that and when they used that ability, you want them banned? yes the GM should have been more careful about promotions, but can you truly tell what someone is like after a few days, weeks, months? doesn't look like the whole story is available here, just one person's part. I can imagine a possibility where the officer is a trusted founding member - Imagine you're an officer in a guild, Imagine further that out of the entire guild of 300 plus people, only you and a couple of other people make the guild what it it, you do all the recruiting, you do all the events planning and hosting, you raised the funds for the guild bank and what's in it, the other members don't help, even the gm seems to have no clue what to do in any of it. you're tired of being one of the few or the only one making the guild popular and fun. play time has become work, a second job for which you get no apreciation....Then something happens, could be a remark by anyone, could be some idiot you're helping who is utterly clueless and rude, heck maybe the idiot gm thanked the clueless member for something you did and you lose it....those items in the bank were yours and you can take em back, you have the power to kick the idiots and you kick em, along with their friends, and their friends friends (all who were recruited by you anyway). You're made this guild what it is and you'll make everyone see it by taking away everything you put into it. long story short, even a trusted officer can become angry and do things you'd never think they would do. maybe the person in question got his account hacked or had a really bad day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zumangatron Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 Well the two rogue officers in question were newly appointed (although one of them was a long time member). Both of them deposited rarely into the GuildBank. They were supposed to be new PvP division heads of the guild, since most of the guild was PvE oriented but some of the people wanted PvP guild events too. Later i found out that they had a fight with another of the guild officer (who btw, was one of the central figures in making the guild what it is now, or at least what it was). They got angry at him, but couldnt do anything about it since... well not many it the guild liked them since they didnt help out a lot and were a bit elitist (as in blaming others for loss/wipes) etc. so they went into rage mode and viola all members of the guild were ninja kicked. I have realized that it was in most part, our fault for not checking their background thoroughly before promoting the two. We have learnt a valuable lesson from this experience. Although not all is lost, we have been able to track down around half of the members and invite them back. And Bioware has responded to our tickets and said that they are looking into it. As they say, "What doesnt kill you, makes you stronger." .The guild in whole has become more united than ever after the crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithasB Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 You're in an Imperial guild, evil, backstabbers. They were just rp'ing >< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithMagician_X Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 You're in an Imperial guild, evil, backstabbers. They were just rp'ing >< Too many people think they're RPing Sith by being rude jerks. Evil isn't rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_Fantasy Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Meh, I'm used to playing EVE. Suck it up and hunt the other guys down. Or... er.... Try to play Hutt ball with them lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fomby Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 This is one of the reasons I'm happy that I joined a guild full of win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnu Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Reasons like this are why the only the GM and AGM should have the ability to withdraw an unlimited amount, It prevents pissed off officers from emptying out vaults. If you don't mind me asking, can you give us anymore details as to these two people suddenly decided to screw over everyone else? I'm just curious to see if this situation could of been prevented. As for BioWare's response to matters such as this, its hard for them to do the "right thing" as something like this becomes a "Your word against mine" case. Here's their official response on the subject. http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/20207-public-service-announcement-mind-your-guild-bank what an odd stance to take on guild bank theft and abuse etc. It's all very well and good to say you need to select who you trust carefully but the fact of the matter is you can easily be wrong about people. Even ones you meet in real life and get to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynomen Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 If BW won't help, which in my opinion I think they should, then post the two players game names so everyone knows who to look out for. Calling out the cheating cowards is the best way to help others on the server or in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meluna Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hello, everyone. We would like to pop in real quick and remind you all that we do not allow "naming and shaming" on the forums. These types of posts will be removed. If you have any questions as to this policy, please feel free to send them to our Community Coordinators at communitysupport@swtor.com. They'll be happy to discuss this or any other questions. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynomen Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Hello, everyone. We would like to pop in real quick and remind you all that we do not allow "naming and shaming" on the forums. These types of posts will be removed. If you have any questions as to this policy, please feel free to send them to our Community Coordinators at communitysupport@swtor.com. They'll be happy to discuss this or any other questions. Thanks! Do the right thing and help the OP and their guild. Allowing people to get away with stuff like this is terrible. I only mentioned to post the names since it looks like nothing with happen to them from your (CS) side of things. Unacceptable in my book. They need to be held accountable and you all know it. Letting this go is condoning this type of behavior. I know you all try to keep things as fair as possible, which is great, but you almost force hands in this area. I have seen what something like that can do to players and a guild. Please do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieColt Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There are always 2 sides to every story. The OP posted again about how the people who did this weren't contributors to the guild, and overall had bad attitudes. Sorry, then the fault lies squarely on the GM or AGM who gave them the keys to the guild. It isn't up to CS to babysit players, nor for them to be the Fairness Cops and moderate behavior between users unless it violates ToS. If you give the mean person in your neighborhood keys to your house, you should be willing to accept the consequences if they enter your home and trash your stuff. Hopefully the Guild learned their hard lesson and wont be so quick to promote people in the future, but please do not expect Bioware to fix a users screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynomen Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There are always 2 sides to every story. The OP posted again about how the people who did this weren't contributors to the guild, and overall had bad attitudes. Sorry, then the fault lies squarely on the GM or AGM who gave them the keys to the guild. It isn't up to CS to babysit players, nor for them to be the Fairness Cops and moderate behavior between users unless it violates ToS. If you give the mean person in your neighborhood keys to your house, you should be willing to accept the consequences if they enter your home and trash your stuff. Hopefully the Guild learned their hard lesson and wont be so quick to promote people in the future, but please do not expect Bioware to fix a users screw up. I admit that I did not see the second post from the OP and should of read through before commenting. I agree that better judgement should be used, especially in positions of power, but I stand by my comment on making sure these people get punished. They stole from others and last I checked, it most cases that is illegal. Taking no stance is just saying it is ok to treat people like this. Granted giving the keys to your house to the mean person and expecting everything to be as it was would be very unreasonable. To the OP and to CS, I think it's great that things are still working out. A lesson is learned and hopefully the ones who did this can learn one as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieColt Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 I admit that I did not see the second post from the OP and should of read through before commenting. I agree that better judgement should be used, especially in positions of power, but I stand by my comment on making sure these people get punished. They stole from others and last I checked, it most cases that is illegal. Taking no stance is just saying it is ok to treat people like this. Granted giving the keys to your house to the mean person and expecting everything to be as it was would be very unreasonable. To the OP and to CS, I think it's great that things are still working out. A lesson is learned and hopefully the ones who did this can learn one as well. But what is the definition of stealing? If you take something you didn't put in the guild, isn't that stealing? The people who did this were specifically given the ability to take anything, and everything, they wanted from the guild. They were also given the ability to kick people out of the guild. So while I agree that what they did really sucked, and was mean, they didn't do anything that they were not specifically given the ability to do. Had they users hacked the GM's account and then taken everything out of the guild and sent it to their alts, yes. I would be all up for BW restoring the items to the guild and terminating the users involved. But that isn't what happened. The users were promoted within the guild and given the ability to take anything, and everything, out of the guild bank, and kick users. The real issue here is that BW should, if they do not already, offer different levels of abilities within a guild. I am not in a guild, so I do not know how the Guild ability structure is set up. But if is an all or nothing option, then BW needs to ensure that the Dev Team that works on the Guilds gets some new controls released in a future update to help prevent these types of things from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynomen Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 But what is the definition of stealing? If you take something you didn't put in the guild, isn't that stealing? The people who did this were specifically given the ability to take anything, and everything, they wanted from the guild. They were also given the ability to kick people out of the guild. So while I agree that what they did really sucked, and was mean, they didn't do anything that they were not specifically given the ability to do. Had they users hacked the GM's account and then taken everything out of the guild and sent it to their alts, yes. I would be all up for BW restoring the items to the guild and terminating the users involved. But that isn't what happened. The users were promoted within the guild and given the ability to take anything, and everything, out of the guild bank, and kick users. The real issue here is that BW should, if they do not already, offer different levels of abilities within a guild. I am not in a guild, so I do not know how the Guild ability structure is set up. But if is an all or nothing option, then BW needs to ensure that the Dev Team that works on the Guilds gets some new controls released in a future update to help prevent these types of things from happening. But BUT BUT.......... Ok I concede. You are correct and any reply I would say to counter is just for the sake of arguing. lol This a rare feat as I am female and we NEVER lose an arguement! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JessieColt Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 But BUT BUT.......... Ok I concede. You are correct and any reply I would say to counter is just for the sake of arguing. lol This a rare feat as I am female and we NEVER lose an arguement! lol LMAO!! I am female too. So I think we are at an impasse, but we could do this all night, going back and forth LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynomen Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 lmao!! I am female too. So i think we are at an impasse, but we could do this all night, going back and forth lol. oh its on gurl!!!! =p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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