What Sent/Mar spec and change has contributed to them becoming op?

[Blloodbane]

No one has expertise pre-50, so yeah. Do you not understand that?

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA

 

*sucks in breath*

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

SOOooooo not true... again L2P

[ItGetsAllOver]

No one has expertise pre-50, so yeah. Do you not understand that?

 

Not entirely true. Wait until you run into a Marauder/Sentinel with two of the rakghoul event crystals.

[Macroecon]

At this point even if no further rules changes are made, Mara/Sent will continue to get more powerful. That's simply because there is a vast underclass of Mara/Sents that re-rolled into the spec and are inexperienced and undergeared. As thei climb the learning curve and get better gear, their performance will increase. The only thing that can stop this would be further player migration into the subclass. Which is a possibility that can not be discounted. However at a certain point that has diminishing returns with respect to restraining Mara/Sent meta average productivity.

[lpsmash]

Other "DPS" classes.... Really did you just say that? Because AFAIK the ONLY pure DPS class out there is Mara/Sents...

 

Snipers.

 

Also, you have to understand that by "class" he meant "specialization".

 

The best defensive CD's? Some room for arguement there.. As Mara/Sents are Medium armor (oh yes I forget armor has ZERO effect in pvp).... The class's defenses are active defenses and have to be monitored an executed to be useful, many other classes defenses are naturally passive and always up... Contrary to popular belief they are a WARRIOR class and people never see the other around the corner either helping with the DPS or Healing them... So people see 2 sabers in their face and assume it has to be ALL them...

 

Well, maybe they don't have the single strongest defensive cooldown, but they have a very strong suite of defensive cooldown that makes them very effective at staying alive, especially if there is only one player trying to dps them down.

 

Arguably, activated defenses are stronger than passive mitigation in PvP, unless you have so much passive that it becomes like a good defensive cooldown by itself (for example, having a tanking stance and tanking gear).

 

Yes, I have noticed that people only see you if you're in melee range, which I find hilarious. Sometimes, on my lower level scoundrel in WZ, I stay in cover and dps like a Gunslinger would simply because there is a cluster of people and they'll just attack the closest target (and I'm one of the only melee in my team). Then they try to rush me and BAM, kick in the nuts, back blast, sucker punch, you name it! \

 

FYI, if you are in DPS tree, EVERYONE was buffed more significantly than healing was with expertise. I still see SO many new players coming in with Columi or Rakata and expecting they will do just fine and then get pwnt. So they complain either about the class that owned them or they complain about Expertise..

 

So true. One of my friend tries to tell me that PvP is unbalanced, but I know he wears Rakata gear (on a healing sorc, no less). He's not an elite player, but he's above average. He's acting really stupid on this though and I told him countless times. What do you expect, wearing your raiding gear? You have more HP, but you take a load of damage and do less damage/healing to players.

 

If some people are complaining about 6-7k crits from whatever class, they are surely not wearing pvp gear, had armor reduce debuff, and their opponent was buffed with adrenals. Cause there's no way a marauder hits for 6-7k constantly.

[Teabaker]

+15% Damage on Ravage/Master Strike.

[ZDProletariat]

You should destroy Sents/Mara's with your sniper, the good ones do me for sure, L2P, thank you have a nice day... From you other posting it seems you are more PVE oriented than PVP, which probably answers why you think they are so OP.

 

lol

It depends on the spec actually. If the sniper is using a very specific spec, they have a chance. If they are not, they have as much of a chance as the other classes. Btw trying to insult one of my posts isn't relevant to the absolutely incorrect info in that other post I laughed at.

 

Marauders have too many defense cooldowns against sniper damage to die to them unless they run at them at less than 100% hp or don't have their cooldowns. If we want to stun them at under ~30% hp to kill before the undying rage, than we can only use either our knockback or our flashbang, not both. If we use our knockback, all you have to do is go invis and pop up on us opening with a snare. We won't be able to get far enough away to not take damage, our only chance is to face tank. If we leave cover for one second, jump at us for extra damage to keep us close. We only have one stun. If we want to save it for the last, then we will take damage at the beginning, too much to recover from usually.

I'm sorry that you get killed by gunslingers regularly. But if it is a 1v1 situation, and not being attacked from him while on another target, then that's your own lack of skill or cooldowns (why are you running at a covered gunslinger with no defense cooldowns anyway?)

 

If you disagree with any of this, please provide real information, explaining the way you get killed, and show you actually know what you are talking about. If you can't, then both my points still stand.

Also, I have absolutely no idea where you got the idea that I am "more pve than pve". Even if you can deduce that from some forum posts, it has absolutely no bearing on the arguments being made.

Edited April 29, 2012 by ZDProletariat

[Diddley]

Not entirely true. Wait until you run into a Marauder/Sentinel with two of the rakghoul event crystals.

 

I am aware but it's basically negligible in terms of a marauders performance overall; and for all intents and purposes a technicality used by Bloodbane to discredit the points I've made. 2 crystals at pre-50 level must equate to what? 2%?

 

The L2P argument is so completely naive and laughable to hear. If you refuse to accept that patches and rebalances create issues and OPness in MMOs you are more or less completely ignorant and your opinion means squat. Basically, this is the last resort of a class nervous of the nerf hammer - happened with sorcs too. Really marauders have a L2Accept issue. How many days until the nerfs come I wonder?

Edited April 29, 2012 by Diddley

[ItGetsAllOver]

I am aware but it's basically negligible in terms of dps, and for all intents and purposes a technicality used by Bloodbane to discredit the points I've made. 2 crystals at pre-50 level must equate to what? 2%?

 

The L2P argument is so completely naive and laughable to hear. If you refuse to accept that patches and rebalances create issues and OPness in MMOs you are more or less completely ignorant and your opinion means squat. Basically, this is the last resort of a class nervous of the nerf hammer - happened with sorcs too. Really marauders have a L2Accept issue. How many days until the nerfs come I wonder?

 

I would imagine it's somewhere in the 2% range. 36 expertise is 1% at level 50.

 

But consider that it's 2% extra damage/healing and also 2% less damage received.

[Blloodbane]

Not entirely true. Wait until you run into a Marauder/Sentinel with two of the rakghoul event crystals.

 

Actually you can buy plenty of pre 50 gear with expertise on it off the vendors... You also have PVP crystals to slot....beyond the rakghoul event too FYI.

[ZDProletariat]

2 crystals at pre-50 level must equate to what? 2%?

If even that. From what I remember, the low level crystals available only had 18 expertise on them. I wonder how much that will give lol

Edited April 29, 2012 by ZDProletariat

[ItGetsAllOver]

Actually you can buy plenty of pre 50 gear with expertise on it off the vendors... You also have PVP crystals to slot....beyond the rakghoul event too FYI.

 

Plenty? The weapons? What else is there?

[Blloodbane]

Btw trying to insult one of my posts isn't relevant to the absolutely incorrect info in that other post I laughed at.

 

Hello pot, meet my good friend kettle...

[Diddley]

ITT: Bloodbane's arguments falling apart IN REAL TIME Edited April 29, 2012 by Diddley

[Tiresias]

Actually you can buy plenty of pre 50 gear with expertise on it off the vendors... You also have PVP crystals to slot....beyond the rakghoul event too FYI.

 

Link me one item from TORHead that is level 1-49 that has Expertise on it BESIDES for weapon crystals.

 

The level 47 weapon crystals have 31 expertise. If you are a Sentinel or Gunslinger (who can use two) you can get 62 Expertise, which at level 47 is about 3% more mitigation and 2% more damage -- hardly a game-changer.

 

There are no other pieces of armor, modifications, weapons, etc. that have Expertise on them. The ONLY other way to get an "Expertise" bonus before level 49 is to use a Warzone Adrenal for the 15-second 15% bonus once every 3 minutes.

 

You.

Are.

WRONG.

 

http://www.torhead.com/items/catg/2/expertise/gt/0/and/reqlevel/1-49

 

Edit: Mea Culpa; there is an Enhancement with 25 Expertise on it that I completely forgot about! Silly, since I use it. You can get it at level 46 and potentially slot it into all of your customizable gear. If you do so you will gain an additional 225 Expertise.

 

My level 47 Gunslinger uses both crystals and a full run of the Enhancements; he has +4.6% defense and +3.4% damage -- I just looked it up.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Tiresias

[ZDProletariat]

Hello pot, meet my good friend kettle...

 

I just made a post that explained my position. Do you really need ANOTHER person to explain to you how the marauder isn't the only DPS class? I was laughing at your obviously incorrect point made. And we all know the vast majority of people pre-50 do not use expertise unless they are exclusively pvping to 50. So you made two errors, I laughed, then you tried to bring up a post made in another thread. I expanded on that, and all you can do is lamely reply with attempting to label me a hypocrite? Why even bother responding at all?

[Blloodbane]

Alright here is the skinny for pre 50 and moving to 50 pvp gear..

 

1. PVP vendors have expertise items

2. CE vendor has multiple crystals on it

3. You're not going to hit 1200 expertise out of the gate let alone pre 50

4. Save WZ comms and Convert as many to rated WZ comms (how you use them up to you)

5. Buy the recruit gear with this, 1 BM gear item (if not two) and slotted crystals you can boost exeprtise.

6. Use expertise nodes and stims

 

 

One thing I am not sure of is craftable expertise items, i think some crystals can be crafted as well, not so sure about gear.

 

Thats just off the top of my head... if I could I would log in and look more...

[Blloodbane]

lol

It depends on the spec actually. If the sniper is using a very specific spec, they have a chance. If they are not, they have as much of a chance as the other classes. Btw trying to insult one of my posts isn't relevant to the absolutely incorrect info in that other post I laughed at.

 

Marauders have too many defense cooldowns against sniper damage to die to them unless they run at them at less than 100% hp or don't have their cooldowns. If we want to stun them at under ~30% hp to kill before the undying rage, than we can only use either our knockback or our flashbang, not both. If we use our knockback, all you have to do is go invis and pop up on us opening with a snare. We won't be able to get far enough away to not take damage, our only chance is to face tank. If we leave cover for one second, jump at us for extra damage to keep us close. We only have one stun. If we want to save it for the last, then we will take damage at the beginning, too much to recover from usually.

I'm sorry that you get killed by gunslingers regularly. But if it is a 1v1 situation, and not being attacked from him while on another target, then that's your own lack of skill or cooldowns (why are you running at a covered gunslinger with no defense cooldowns anyway?)

 

If you disagree with any of this, please provide real information, explaining the way you get killed, and show you actually know what you are talking about. If you can't, then both my points still stand.

Also, I have absolutely no idea where you got the idea that I am "more pve than pve". Even if you can deduce that from some forum posts, it has absolutely no bearing on the arguments being made.

 

Oh so you want to be lazy and make ME do all the work to tell you how to play YOUR class and fraps and screens shot everything. That is such an assinine line... 1. Even if I did do this you would still come back and say I did something funny just to prove my point. 2. I could say the EXACT same thing in reverse and say why dont YOU take a fraps and show me how it is OP it is otherise MY point stands... YOU dont know anything about a Mara/Sara

 

I dont get killed by them regulary because I know how to move and use LOS, but it heavily depends on the skill of the player... Good ones can either kill me or at the very least lock me down. As far as your PVE vs PVP, I just looked back at your posts that you do and your biggest "contributing" posts are about how to do things in PVE... And it DOES make absolutely a difference. Because those that PVE more are going to think it is unfair.

[mamosh]

ok for the slow ppl ttk was lowerd so having the best defence in the game even better then tanks with really low cooldowns gives them advantage over other classes

nothing easyer for a healer then keeping up that mara who got so many ohshiat buttons then any other class that just explodes within 3 seconds

Edited April 29, 2012 by mamosh

[ItGetsAllOver]

Alright here is the skinny for pre 50 and moving to 50 pvp gear..

 

1. PVP vendors have expertise items

2. CE vendor has multiple crystals on it

3. You're not going to hit 1200 expertise out of the gate let alone pre 50

4. Save WZ comms and Convert as many to rated WZ comms (how you use them up to you)

5. Buy the recruit gear with this, 1 BM gear item (if not two) and slotted crystals you can boost exeprtise.

6. Use expertise nodes and stims

 

 

One thing I am not sure of is craftable expertise items, i think some crystals can be crafted as well, not so sure about gear.

 

Thats just off the top of my head... if I could I would log in and look more...

 

Besides the weapons there isn't any PvP gear from vendors with expertise pre-50 and not everyone shelled out extra money for the CE.

 

The rest of your point don't address your claims that there is "plenty" of expertise available pre-50.

[vrgadin]

I keep hearing how sent/mar are op. Which spec? What is exactly op. I heard all the speculation on how the focus/rage spec would be op and it does do a lot of damage. I would like to hear what new thing that has changed that has caused sentinels to become op. Please list the spec and the change that has caused them to become op.

 

they have dcs that a guardian should have not a super damaging dps class.

[dirtyboxer]

I dont see where others are saying the other dps classes got nerfed hard - they didn't.

 

I still see Socs doing 400-500k damage in wzs, I still see BHs with 400-500k damage, i still see assassins with 350k+ damage.

 

the Range i'd give for the average of the numbers i see marauders putting up - 200-300k in Long games.

 

trooper/BH damage was not nerfed it was rebalanced - IE they can still put out the same dps but have to be more interactive in their game plays. other abilities were improved to make up for the 10%? loss to tracer damage.

 

i mean come on tankassassin can set up their force lighting to do 2k a tic at 30meters. Thats what a 6k ranged attack of force damage from a TANK.

 

----

ppl are now shifting away from marauder damage being OP to saying their defensive CD are OP.

 

Well okay, take away undying rage. But make cloak of pain last 30 seconds - none of this lasts 6 seconds and refreshes stuff and increase the damage reduction to 25%. Also give us more passive mitigation. Also give use a 4 second hard stun.

 

I dont know where your seeing those damage numbers, cause I dont see them.

 

Mercs didnt get a 10% nerf, more like 50%. The 1.5s cast time was increased to 2.5s. Meaning you cant cast as often, equating to a DPS nerf of WAY more than 10%. Plus their whole tree revolves around it, so no they cant 'adjust' and cast something else, they just have to eat it and still cast it.

 

Mauraders are OP and everyone knows it atm. Trying to defend what they have is futile. We all play the game, we see what they are capable of and KNOW that no other class is even close.

[Blloodbane]

I dont know where your seeing those damage numbers, cause I dont see them.

 

Mercs didnt get a 10% nerf, more like 50%. The 1.5s cast time was increased to 2.5s. Meaning you cant cast as often, equating to a DPS nerf of WAY more than 10%. Plus their whole tree revolves around it, so no they cant 'adjust' and cast something else, they just have to eat it and still cast it.

 

Mauraders are OP and everyone knows it atm. Trying to defend what they have is futile. We all play the game, we see what they are capable of and KNOW that no other class is even close.

 

by "everyone" or "we all", you mean the 20 or so people posting here?

 

FYI, the devs said Mara/Sent Metrics were exactly were they expected and looked over it BTW... That and nothing in the dev tracker about changes to them either....

Edited April 29, 2012 by Blloodbane

[dirtyboxer]

by "everyone" or "we all", you mean the 20 or so people posting here?

 

FYI, the devs said Mara/Sent Metrics were exactly were they expected and looked over it BTW... That and nothing in the dev tracker about changes to them either....

 

If they dont fix it, they'll end up with Sentinal vs Marauder WZs. Because everyone and their brother is rerolling one of these two classes for good reason.

 

Which brings me to another point, if anyone is looking to start an alt, Marauder/Sent is a very good choice. If thats where they want these 2 classes to be, damage wise, everyone needs to have one.

[Blloodbane]

If they dont fix it, they'll end up with Sentinal vs Marauder WZs. Because everyone and their brother is rerolling one of these two classes for good reason.

 

Which brings me to another point, if anyone is looking to start an alt, Marauder/Sent is a very good choice. If thats where they want these 2 classes to be, damage wise, everyone needs to have one.

 

And just about everyone is re-rolling are still going to be bad players and will be right back here QQ'ing about the class that just owned them or right back here saying the class is OP not even playing to post 50. I have seen all the "I play a mara" comments and 95% of the time a little research shows their true colors.... Their main was something else.

 

The new mara and sents I DO see (which is very few on Jedi Covenant) SUCK and badly... I dont even bother going after my other kills now, I kill them cus they are easier now... Oh... let me guess my Mara is more OP than the other Mara's (and no I dont play Anhilation)

[ZDProletariat]

Oh so you want to be lazy and make ME do all the work to tell you how to play YOUR class and fraps and screens shot everything. That is such an assinine line... 1. Even if I did do this you would still come back and say I did something funny just to prove my point. 2. I could say the EXACT same thing in reverse and say why dont YOU take a fraps and show me how it is OP it is otherise MY point stands... YOU dont know anything about a Mara/Sara

 

I dont get killed by them regulary because I know how to move and use LOS, but it heavily depends on the skill of the player... Good ones can either kill me or at the very least lock me down. As far as your PVE vs PVP, I just looked back at your posts that you do and your biggest "contributing" posts are about how to do things in PVE... And it DOES make absolutely a difference. Because those that PVE more are going to think it is unfair.

 

lol are you being serious? I didn't even mention fraps. *** are you talking about? I asked you to explain how you are unable to beat a gunslinger 1v1. How are you unable to stay in melee range and do enough damage? What is wrong with the way you play? Do you even use pacify? How can you possibly pretend your "point stands" if you don't even make an argument? You haven't made a point yet,only a claim.

 

As for the pvp/pve thing, argue the facts, don't try to attack a person's character. It's an obvious logical fallacy. it makes no difference. What rotation are you using that gets you killed?

 

Let's set up the scenario. Alderaan civil war. A gunslinger is defending a side point alone. You are going to go ninja it. What do you do? How did you die to him?

Edited April 29, 2012 by Meluna
insults