So who is getting the nerfbat after Sentinels and Marauders?

[Carbonated]

Seriously, guys?

 

You do realize that Snipers are literally designed to be the natural counter to melee classes, don't you?

 

You are not some paragon of PvP knowledge for killing a Marauder w/ a Sniper, just like it does not make a Marauder a "skilled player" to take out a healer. You are killing the class you have the MOST advantages against.

 

You are just doing what your class is designed to do. <.<

 

If you were a Sorc posting vids of how you can effectively beat well-played Marauders through skill and class knowledge, I'd applaud you. What you've written here, however, is just silly.

 

The point wasn't to be some "pillar of knowledge" it was more to provide that "you can counter such and such by using your skills correctly. If you played a sniper you would probably understand that yes they counter melee but you would also know the problems with the cover system and how it can hamper you more then help you.

 

At the end of the day Everything that Mara/sent has, the other classes have something that can deal with it, and counter it. Most people when they get charged by a mara sent will knock back first, stun second. Rather then actually do anything useful and then when it comes time for a mara to pop one of these "uber" cooldowns all the opponents stuffs on cooldown.

 

I save cover pulse for ravage for example. Why? because it gets them away from me and reduces the damage I take. I use leg shot for when I have to change cover positions and I have a sent/mara on me. Why? because it snares them and prevents them from closing the gap.

 

How can a sorc do this? well they have a knock back, they have the ability to make it snare....so knock them back sprint away...not hard to do....If your having problems going 1v1 your counter class, use your brain rather then mash keyboard and prey for results. Don't fight them 1v1 sprint to your group, work with your team.

[Carbonated]

so because we do tech damage we arent allowed to do any damage at all? like you said, we only do damage so if you take it away what else can we do?

 

btw tracer is activated so it makes us immobile and its also highly interruptable but that wasnt enough i guess. also, the second nerf for arsenal is HSM, not bodyguard, thats another spec

 

Snipe is in cover only unless you talent for 1 outside of cover...so hey guess what, Snipers are not mobile either, you dont need to set up cover either. Ravage also makes mara/sent immobile for the activation time, and I dont know if you noticed but its easier to run away from someone with a 4 meter range that is immobile compared to someone with a 30 meter range.

 

Heat seeker missle is what your saying for HSM right? I mean I'm confused The patch notes I found say Heatseeker Missiles' damage output has been increased by approximately 10%, I dont see how increasing it by 10% is a nerf.

 

I also wasn't saying you cant do damage, I was saying these "Nerfs" are more to bring in balance with what others get. As in, snipers have their main attack and its considerably lower then Tracer missle. understand? you got one class with all these bonuses being based off one attack that has 10% base chance to hit with the same activation time as another class who has to deal with dodge deflects etc doing less damage with less resource regen.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Carbonated

[Cegenaus]

Snipe is in cover only unless you talent for 1 outside of cover...so hey guess what, Snipers are not mobile either, you dont need to set up cover either. Ravage also makes mara/sent immobile for the activation time, and I dont know if you noticed but its easier to run away from someone with a 4 meter range that is immobile compared to someone with a 30 meter range.

 

Heat seeker missle is what your saying for HSM right? I mean I'm confused The patch notes I found say Heatseeker Missiles' damage output has been increased by approximately 10%, I dont see how increasing it by 10% is a nerf.

 

ravage can be talented to have a root, arsenal has none. im also not comparing sniper so i dont know why you keep bringing that up

 

armor reduction from TM does not apply to HSM anymore, it was a bug that later was "working as intended" which translates into a ninja nerf

 

my point is that arsenal is a pure dps class that got nerfed into oblivion so thats not a valid argument for mara anymore. if they want to nerf mara dps they will

[Vid-szhite]

this exactly, so far biowar gives the appearance that qq = results. Which is probably why the outcry re maras is so enormous as the weaker players think there is high chances of success following sorc/ops nerfs. Its certainly not a trend bioware will want to continue

 

Bioware has a unique dilemma in this regard. On the one hand, a class that is actually overpowered will inevitably get QQ raised about it. If they don't address that, all to appear on the surface to not be buffing or nerfing based on QQ, the class will remain overpowered, the QQ won't stop, and we'll get people complaining that Bioware favors one class over all others. If Bioware does nerf it as they rightly should, people who play the class will think it got nerfed because of the QQ, when the reality is that the class got so much QQ because it needed to be nerfed.

 

I don't believe Bioware actually does do balance based on QQ. If they did nerf or buff based on QQ, they wouldn't have nerfed Operatives five times, not only long after the QQ to get them nerfed had stopped, but quite some time after the QQ to get them buffed in PvE had started. However, if there is a perception that they buff or nerf based on QQ, it is unfounded, and there's just about nothing they can do to change it. If they don't nerf what needs to be nerfed, the game will not be balanced, but overpowered classes inevitably get QQ'd about. People love to think correlation = causation, however, so they can never shake it, even if they nerf a class nobody thought was overpowered.

 

They have actually nerfed classes that were publicly thought to be fine or even underpowered (COUGH Merc Healers!) and buffed classes people thought were overpowered (Marauders, even though Carnage and Rage were underperforming and needed buffs), yet people ignore that because when the public notices an imbalance, the QQ is deafening, and once bioware fixes it, the people who got nerfed think it's the QQ that got them nerfed, because people love to believe they are victims of unwarranted persecution, and don't want to believe that they were actually overpowered.

[Varicite]

The point wasn't to be some "pillar of knowledge" it was more to provide that "you can counter such and such by using your skills correctly. If you played a sniper you would probably understand that yes they counter melee but you would also know the problems with the cover system and how it can hamper you more then help you.

 

At the end of the day Everything that Mara/sent has, the other classes have something that can deal with it, and counter it. Most people when they get charged by a mara sent will knock back first, stun second. Rather then actually do anything useful and then when it comes time for a mara to pop one of these "uber" cooldowns all the opponents stuffs on cooldown.

 

I save cover pulse for ravage for example. Why? because it gets them away from me and reduces the damage I take. I use leg shot for when I have to change cover positions and I have a sent/mara on me. Why? because it snares them and prevents them from closing the gap.

 

How can a sorc do this? well they have a knock back, they have the ability to make it snare....so knock them back sprint away...not hard to do....If your having problems going 1v1 your counter class, use your brain rather then mash keyboard and prey for results. Don't fight them 1v1 sprint to your group, work with your team.

 

Yes, and I was pointing out that you were doing this from the point of view of a class that has a number of skills that directly counter the class you're talking about, so it's just silly.

 

Your point was that a class can take them out by using their skills correctly, and when I pointed out that you were talking about the class you directly counter, you moved on to a Sorc.

 

And your advice for a Sorc was "don't fight them 1v1".

 

Gotcha.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Varicite

[Carbonated]

ravage can be talented to have a root, arsenal has none. im also not comparing sniper so i dont know why you keep bringing that up

 

armor reduction from TM does not apply to HSM anymore, it was a bug that later was "working as intended" which translates into a ninja nerf

 

my point is that arsenal is a pure dps class that got nerfed into oblivion so thats not a valid argument for mara anymore. if they want to nerf mara dps they will

 

And this is the problem, your comparing yourself to a class that is not in anyway shape or form something you should be comparing to in terms of dps output and defensive cool downs.

 

Mara you have to talent for the root on ravage and has a cool down.

 

Fixing a bug != a nerf. If you think a bug fix is a nerf then thats the problem. Anything I say will just be useless because you don't understand how MMO's work.

 

And if you have been so nerfed into oblivion, yet single target stand still your still within 5% of the other classes, you dont think that it was imbalanced prior then?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Carbonated

[Carbonated]

And just to add. I had a browse of your merc forums, so you want to compare to mara, your forums are like ours pre 1.2 a bunch of people saying the class sucks and a few who know what they are doing saying its fine.

 

In the mara forums, people are parsing on dummies and discussing it with people so you can get a feel of what specs doing what damage and work out for it. But in the merc forum, not really any parsing. In fact the one fight in pve which is kind of like pvp due to switching targets a heap kephess that was parsed on your forums was a commando(your mirror class) topping the meters.

[Cegenaus]

And this is the problem, your comparing yourself to a class that is not in anyway shape or form something you should be comparing to in terms of dps output and defensive cool downs.

 

Mara you have to talent for the root on ravage and has a cool down.

 

Fixing a bug != a nerf. If you think a bug fix is a nerf then thats the problem. Anything I say will just be useless because you don't understand how MMO's work.

 

And if you have been so nerfed into oblivion, yet single target stand still your still within 5% of the other classes, you dont think that it was imbalanced prior then?

 

i wont compare two pure dps classes anymore, my apologies. ill make sure to frame my argument so you win as well

 

let me explain this better since it flew over your head. they fixed a bug where HSM was benefiting from other players stacks of armor reduction as well as your own but in the process broke it so HSM doesnt benefit from your armor reduction stack at all. its been reported that every attack doesnt work with the armor reduction, ive noticed that my attacks hit for a bit less now after 1.2.0c. a bug is a bug and if you dont know that then you dont understand how MMOs work

 

i have no idea what your last sentence says, is english not your native language?

[Carbonated]

i wont compare two pure dps classes anymore, my apologies. ill make sure to frame my argument so you win as well

 

let me explain this better since it flew over your head. they fixed a bug where HSM was benefiting from other players stacks of armor reduction as well as your own but in the process broke it so HSM doesnt benefit from your armor reduction stack at all. its been reported that every attack doesnt work with the armor reduction, ive noticed that my attacks hit for a bit less now after 1.2.0c. a bug is a bug and if you dont know that then you dont understand how MMOs work

 

i have no idea what your last sentence says, is english not your native language?

 

Your forums seem to be on agreeance though that your hsm is still better off as is atm. If your dps is so bad but, Do what Snipers did, Parse it and prove it. The latest patch was the fix because the snipers parsed and worked it out rather then make continual threads about how "they got nerfed so bad with bug fixes that they cant do anything now"

 

Also, when I say pure dps advanced class I mean all 3 trees are for one role, dps. Merc has this tree right thats built for healing.

[Varicite]

i wont compare two pure dps classes anymore, my apologies. ill make sure to frame my argument so you win as well

 

let me explain this better since it flew over your head. they fixed a bug where HSM was benefiting from other players stacks of armor reduction as well as your own but in the process broke it so HSM doesnt benefit from your armor reduction stack at all. its been reported that every attack doesnt work with the armor reduction, ive noticed that my attacks hit for a bit less now after 1.2.0c. a bug is a bug and if you dont know that then you dont understand how MMOs work

 

i have no idea what your last sentence says, is english not your native language?

 

I think he's trying to say that because Mercs do well in PvE, that should translate directly to doing well in PvP, maybe? I dunno, just a shot in the dark here.

[Carbonated]

I think he's trying to say that because Mercs do well in PvE, that should translate directly to doing well in PvP, maybe? I dunno, just a shot in the dark here.

 

I'm sorry you guys can't read. My bad. What I was saying was in pve the classes dps output is fine. Thats the jist of it. His argument was tm and hsm got nerfed, when it got a bug fix, lost a little due to another bug but got an increase of base damage and that tm was reduced ruined his classes out put but its incorrect. It translates to pvp yes. But not just "hey does good dps is fine" way.

[Xaxxus]

probably tank specced shadows/assassins. When most people play one spec its bound for nerf....

 

And when this happens i will have no more reason to play this game. shadow is my fav class, and as it stands now, Kinetic combat is their only viable spec. Inf is wayyyyyy too squishy, and the increase in damage is not large enough to warent the loss of self heals and damage mitigation.

[Uvirith]

My money goes to the ddspecced operatives. at the moment 3 operatives together are stll able to kill 1 afk-player in under 20 seconds!! thats clearly overpowered!!!123

[DarthVallik]

it should be tank spec sins/shadows ( or is it a hybrid build) the DPS is disgustingly OP on a class thats so durable

[Onager]

Might as well start lobbying now...

 

Vigilance Guardians and Vengeance Juggernauts.

[SuperSair]

Guard needs a nerf.

[EugeneYap]

Seriously, guys?

 

You do realize that Snipers are literally designed to be the natural counter to melee classes, don't you?

 

You are not some paragon of PvP knowledge for killing a Marauder w/ a Sniper, just like it does not make a Marauder a "skilled player" to take out a healer. You are killing the class you have the MOST advantages against.

 

You are just doing what your class is designed to do. <.<

 

If you were a Sorc posting vids of how you can effectively beat well-played Marauders through skill and class knowledge, I'd applaud you. What you've written here, however, is just silly.

 

LOL wat? What about those who keep Whining and crying about mara OP? Can we say the same to them?

Edited April 27, 2012 by EugeneYap

[EugeneYap]

My money goes to the ddspecced operatives. at the moment 3 operatives together are stll able to kill 1 afk-player in under 20 seconds!! thats clearly overpowered!!!123

 

that 3 operatives must using lvl 20 gears trying to kill afk player is lvl 50 1.2 end gear while pressing 2 buttons

Edited April 27, 2012 by EugeneYap

[EugeneYap]

My snipers got 13k hit points. I kill maras that have better gear then me. I know how to counter it. Seems to be most peoples problems. I don't see any reason to nerf mara/sent. They dont have stealth they dont have any decent crowd control. Most people wait when a scoundrel operative to stun rather then break out of the knock down. With mara sent they have one so you don't exactly have to wait for something else to come and most people break out of choke and do what they can to run as chokes still channelling.

 

shadows/assassins have the ability to become immune briefly to cc, have that darkward possibly, a vanish, a stun and a knock back which Is more harder to counter with a sniper because they can take you out of your cover and can do just as good a job as locking a healer down with decent burst. Also with a possibility of increasing armor and healing on dealing hits.

 

I really don't understand why mara/sent needs a nerf. I mean they are a DPS class. They only do dps. If you take away dps of a mara/sent they do what? nothing. 5 seconds of 99% damage reduction....big deal stuns last 4 seconds. You can't counter that? please give me a break..4 seconds of stealth? you cant find them after? not worthy of a nerf either...20% damage reduction..dont hit them for 6 seconds use your heal or knock them back and run for a little it goes away.

 

^^ This. ^^

[Elear]

My snipers got 13k hit points. I kill maras that have better gear then me. I know how to counter it.

 

And that's reason why Sniper/GS is next in line for nerfs.

 

I mean, they just got buffed, and by people logic classes were perfect at launch, so anything that gets buffed is just waiting for nerf.

[Varicite]

LOL wat? What about those who keep Whining and crying about mara? Can we say the same to them?

 

Sure, why not? I do. In fact, I'm pretty sure I did so in the post you quoted (Mara vs heals).

 

Maras are a strong class, and there are some classes that they just have natural advantages against. Most classes are set up in this fashion.

 

These advantages can be overcome, but not if you don't have some combination of good gear, knowledge of both of your classes' strengths/weaknesses, good environment, luck, or teammates nearby.

 

Sometimes you're just gonna get killed. It's really not that big of a deal.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Varicite

[LukeStormstout]

I'm sorry you guys can't read. My bad. What I was saying was in pve the classes dps output is fine. Thats the jist of it. His argument was tm and hsm got nerfed, when it got a bug fix, lost a little due to another bug but got an increase of base damage and that tm was reduced ruined his classes out put but its incorrect. It translates to pvp yes. But not just "hey does good dps is fine" way.

 

The TM debuff bug is causing all damage to be lower. The armor reduction is not being applied at all. That is what the bug is. We have submitted damage parsings for possible bugs related to what patch 1.2c caused. Have a good day.

[Lokai]

Might as well start lobbying now...

 

uhh i suspects assassins/shadows will get it before maras do...they want to squash hybrids and they are one of last hybrids out there.

[Belecfaron]

uhh i suspects assassins/shadows will get it before maras do...they want to squash hybrids and they are one of last hybrids out there.

 

To do so they would have to rebalance tanking gear for PvP so that avoidance stats are actually useful. Take a look at other tanks, in particular powertechs. They've come to pretty much the same conclusion that even in tank spec it's better to stack Endurance and use DPS gear.

 

The really big reason you see shadows/assassins going tank in PvP is that the other specs are just too squishy. They don't have the godmode cooldowns of Sentinels/Maraudersand so a higher skilled player can do well with a DPS assassin/tank but the difficulty curve is like the freaking cliffs of Navarone. The base survivability of these specs needs looking into to help ease newbies into these specs. Otherwise they'll take the easy route and take the tank spec.

[Moosestick]

With the forums whining because they saw 15% increase to ravage, while ignoring the nerfs to the only pvp spec, id say a few months reroll from mara because they cannot micromanage and the average damage shoots through the roof.

 

After that, sins-pt-snipers-ops-tanks. Since if they know what they are doing, these class wreck marauders.