The Pros and Cons of a Marauder

[Sevvy]

Force push 1 min cd and its so buged it might push enemy towards your score line, than away from it....

Aoe slow is spamable as long as u have unlimited raged or be tank spec....

2 rage per slow doent make it spamable..

Guard and taunts are in the tank package of every class in game... Mara's spells arent...

And the 2nd mechanic with fury on top of rage....seriously...

 

And last, enraged defense, is considered a rage drain buff for every class...

When u fight jugg, pray he ll use it to drain 4 rage + 1 rage per sec from himself, and being unable to dps...

Yes, nerf jugg idd...

 

 

1. Chilling Scream AKA the spammable AOE slow: Every Juggernaut that doesn't suck, regardless of spec, is talented in such a way that Chilling Scream has no Rage cost. It is spammable.

 

2. Force Push is not bugged. If it doesn't work for you, make excuses. it works fine. And charge > push > charge is a solid combo.

 

3. Taunts are in the tank package? Did you not buy the tank package when you leveled your toon? You don't have to be in Soresu form to taunt. If you're a Jugg, regardless of spec, and you're not taunting........

 

4. Rage spec with a shield(or without) and stance dancing between Soresu and Shii-Cho is an acceptable way to play a Jugg. Guard is not out of the question. One of the best Guardians I've seen did this. He managed to keep his healer alive when he needed to, and was able to Force Sweep peoples' faces off.

[HanfordBlows]

I see very little use in chaining Predations for Objectives, such as carrying the huttball or while snaring the other team in Voidstar (from another class) using it to get to the next door/console quickly. Nor do I see this in Novare in opening up an assault on the opposing teams Northern point.

 

I see very little use in chaining Berserk for helping to break a turtle or take a point.

 

Totally agree with you sir and your assessment of cons on how Marauders can have no effect on objectives.

 

/sarcasmoff

 

THANK YOU - I am glad someone else pointed this out. I was quite positive that every FOTM Mara/Sent would blindly agree in order to fend off the nerf bat.

 

Marauders are incredibly useful in WZ's. To say they have no utility almost invalidates everything else that you've said... Almost.

 

Other than this fallacy, many of your points are objective, well-taken, and in my eyes truthful.

 

Thanks for attempting to point out the good with the bad... Every class has its pros and cons.

[Blloodbane]

Maras were strong before, but this is probably true. Lowering the TTK essentially did 2 things..

1) buffed top DPS classes more than anyone else (same percentage, higher base value)

2) increased the duration of damage invuln abilities (relative to the overall TTL of players)

 

I could see why the side effects of these changes might not be anticipated. BW already said that damage was about where they expected, but I think they need to review the effectiveness of maras survival skills from the perspective of the new TTK... it's a different ballgame.

 

OK I play a mara and this is the FIRST logical questioning I seen and said maybe they are right... I applaud you sir.. I had not considered the new TTK and same durations for defenses maybe need to be looked at, but that means everyones defensive CD's would have to be adjusted as well... However as a Carnage Mara pre 1.2 and post 1.2, I highly disagree the class is "godly" OP as some make it to be... However, I concede a minor tweek may be in order...I have said that too already though...

Edited April 26, 2012 by Blloodbane

[hyuplee]

OK I play a mara and this is the FIRST logical questioning I seen and said maybe they are right... I applaud you sir.. I had not considered the new TTK and same durations for defenses maybe need to be looked at, but that means everyones defensive CD's would have to be adjusted as well... However as a Carnage Mara pre 1.2 and post 1.2, I highly disagree the class is "godly" OP as some make it to be... However, I concede a minor tweek may be in order...I have said that too already though...

 

If that's how you feel then that's how you feel and no one can argue with you.

Minor twigs are fine with me

Big nerfs are fine with me too.

the only thing i"m not cool with is the amount of whining from the people that's topping dmg board getting 16 medals from protection/heal/ whatever.

Also not cool with people keep saying how OP mara are but wouldn't even lift a finger to try the class.

 

PS. forum mara don't count. You can tell one when he/she is telling you how easy the class is.

It ain't.

[Sevvy]

I too think pyro is a mobile spec, extremely mobile- thank god unload is the only needed ability for my merc because I don't like standing still too long, I don't need to use unload on my PT if I'm pyro and as shield I'm always moving, always. To say PT pyro isn't mobile... sigh.

 

It's not the mobility spec. It has instants, yes. You CAN be mobile if people are leaving you alone and not slow/rooting you. But outside of the CC breaker on a 2 minute cooldown that EVERYONE has, tell me what makes Pyrotech more mobile than the other melee classes. And don't say "Degauss" because no one specs into that.

 

Advanced Prototype is the mobility spec, not Pyrotech. Pyro isn't immobile like Sorcs(even some Sorcs are smart about kiting and aren't immobile) or Mercs, but it's not like a Powertech specs into Pyro for mobility. o_O

Edited April 26, 2012 by Sevvy

[Blloodbane]

If that's how you feel then that's how you feel and no one can argue with you.

Minor twigs are fine with me

Big nerfs are fine with me too.

the only thing i"m not cool with is the amount of whining from the people that's topping dmg board getting 16 medals from protection/heal/ whatever.

Also not cool with people keep saying how OP mara are but wouldn't even lift a finger to try the class.

 

PS. forum mara don't count. You can tell one when he/she is telling you how easy the class is.

It ain't.

 

I never said the class is easy... it actually forced me to start to learn keybinds and im sucking a little trying to retrain myself to the new binds...

 

All i was saying I could see what they are saying and some tweeking might be needed but the trick of it was those defensive CD's means everyone since their statement was TTK ratio was affected...

[unicornfive]

1. Chilling Scream AKA the spammable AOE slow: Every Juggernaut that doesn't suck, regardless of spec, is talented in such a way that Chilling Scream has no Rage cost. It is spammable.

Sure rage spec gonna use that talent instead of +6% overall dmg and +6% strength.

Sure vengeance tree is gonna use taht spamable instead of the ravage boost talent.

I guess u dont play jugg...If u do, u are incredibly bad at it...

2. Force Push is not bugged. If it doesn't work for you, make excuses. it works fine. And charge > push > charge is a solid combo.

Ok, now im 100% sure u dont play one....

And why the hell u should charge push charge like an idiot? to achieve what?

Push for experienced players is another kind of interrupt for important situations (for mara's ravage and other spells when u wanna chain interrupt...

Only scrubs (like u) do charge, push , charge and think they achieved something...

3. Taunts are in the tank package? Did you not buy the tank package when you leveled your toon? You don't have to be in Soresu form to taunt. If you're a Jugg, regardless of spec, and you're not taunting........

Assassins dont need to be in dark charge to taunt.

Powertechs dont need to be in tank stance to taunt.

4. Rage spec with a shield(or without) and stance dancing between Soresu and Shii-Cho is an acceptable way to play a Jugg. Guard is not out of the question. One of the best Guardians I've seen did this. He managed to keep his healer alive when he needed to, and was able to Force Sweep peoples' faces off.

after 1,2 if u have a clue, u dont use shii-cho...

U only get 3% dmg more and use lose a lot stuff..

Cause u arent mara u know...to keep max dmg and max survivability at same time...

And again...every class in game with guard can save his healer that way...

 

Answer in purple.

Wont bother reply more to ppl that dont have a clue about some class in game..

[hyuplee]

I never said the class is easy... it actually forced me to start to learn keybinds and im sucking a little trying to retrain myself to the new binds...

 

All i was saying I could see what they are saying and some tweeking might be needed but the trick of it was those defensive CD's means everyone since their statement was TTK ratio was affected...

 

yea i know mate i wasn't calling you a forum mara lol

im just saying how annoying it is when everyone think ur class is OP and expect you to do good

[hyuplee]

[/color]

 

Answer in purple.

Wont bother reply more to ppl that dont have a clue about some class in game..

 

Charge + push + charge is solid. If you dont think that combo is any worthy, you are the one who shouldn't be playing jug.

 

Charge at noob standing on the ramp before the goal in huttball.

Knock them down to the front of the goal.

Charge again.

Score.

 

Repeat.

 

Jugg = win. If you feel ike the class suck, l2p.

And for the record I've never once cried bout how weak mara were because I know they weren't.

Pre 1.2 and post 1.2, it makes no difference to me.

[xxdragonragexx]

When you have the best dps, healer killer, speed buffer, and 1vs1 class in pre 1.2 and buff it some more at 1.2 while nerfing others makes that class OP or FOTM class. My warzones consist of lots of marauders. MMO players tend to roll FOTM classes because they are OP.

 

Mara/Sents are OP cause they are FOTM. It is a fact. They will get nerfed so that a new FOTM class rise up. Denying that mara/sents are OP just makes you a terrible player.

Edited April 26, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Sevvy]

[/color]

 

Answer in purple.

Wont bother reply more to ppl that dont have a clue about some class in game..

 

You're the one QQing about Marauders and talking about stripping them of all CDs so they can be more like Juggernauts. QQQQQ you're a bad Juggernaut.

[Blloodbane]

When you have the best dps, healer killer, speed buffer, and 1vs1 class in pre 1.2 and buff it some more at 1.2 while nerfing others makes that class OP or FOTM class. My warzones consist of lots of marauders. MMO players tend to roll FOTM classes because they are OP.

 

Mara/Sents are OP cause they are FOTM. It is a fact. They will get nerfed so that a new FOTM class rise up. Denying that mara/sents are OP just makes you a terrible player.

 

You know, Its easily counterable by saying "If you dont know how to counter a mara you are terribad", see? Doesnt make it any more true now does it?

 

Next, there will always be a FOTM, regardless, even if they didnt make changes, because its all percieved perception. They could leave it like this for 6 months and the call nerf would switch to another class.

[dschlan]

When you have the best dps, healer killer, speed buffer, and 1vs1 class in pre 1.2 and buff it some more at 1.2 while nerfing others makes that class OP or FOTM class. My warzones consist of lots of marauders. MMO players tend to roll FOTM classes because they are OP.

 

Mara/Sents are OP cause they are FOTM. It is a fact. They will get nerfed so that a new FOTM class rise up. Denying that mara/sents are OP just makes you a terrible player.

 

So...Mara/Sent is OP because it's FOTM and it's FOTM because it's OP? Might want to look up the definition of circular logic my friend.

 

By the way, denying that Maras/Sents AREN'T OP just makes you a terrible player. (see how easy it is to destroy terrible arguments like yours?)

[Sevvy]

Mara/Sents are OP cause they are FOTM. It is a fact. They will get nerfed so that a new FOTM class rise up. Denying that mara/sents are OP just makes you a terrible player.

 

Good players don't incessantly whine on the forums about how OP classes are. They're too busy learning how to beat them to cry about it.

 

Part of the problem, is that bad players can't admit that they're bad. They don't learn their own class. They don't learn the classes that stomp them. So they just run in and mash buttons and die. Then they reroll thinking it will solve all of their problems. When in reality, you're going to see an influx of terrible Marauders that are going to smash other terrible players. And the good players are still going to smash them all, regardless of class.

 

That's the reality of it. FOTM classes aren't god mode. The bads will find out the hard way, just like they always do.

[dschlan]

Good players don't incessantly whine on the forums about how OP classes are. They're too busy learning how to beat them to cry about it.

 

Part of the problem, is that bad players can't admit that they're bad. They don't learn their own class. They don't learn the classes that stomp them. So they just run in and mash buttons and die. Then they reroll thinking it will solve all of their problems. When in reality, you're going to see an influx of terrible Marauders that are going to smash other terrible players. And the good players are still going to smash them all, regardless of class.

 

That's the reality of it. FOTM classes aren't god mode. The bads will find out the hard way, just like they always do.

 

This may be the most true forum post I've ever seen

 

by the way, hi Lag ( <---------- Odynol)

[hyuplee]

So...Mara/Sent is OP because it's FOTM and it's FOTM because it's OP? Might want to look up the definition of circular logic my friend.

 

By the way, denying that Maras/Sents AREN'T OP just makes you a terrible player. (see how easy it is to destroy terrible arguments like yours?)

 

 

Lol owned.

Please proceed to other thread and continue owning whiners.

There are a terrible lot of em.

[Sevvy]

This may be the most true forum post I've ever seen

 

by the way, hi Lag ( <---------- Odynol)

 

Oh hey. I need to stay off the PvP forums. I can't believe how many crybabies there are.

[dschlan]

Oh hey. I need to stay off the PvP forums. I can't believe how many crybabies there are.

 

Indeed. This is my brother's account. I got mine banned again cause of said crybabies...it's like the 10th time since launch...

[VoidJustice]

2. Force Push is not bugged. If it doesn't work for you, make excuses. it works fine. And charge > push > charge is a solid combo.

 

Force Push is unreliable for all Jug's Guardians due to bad net code and lag. We can't really aim it well and I'd say about 50% of the time we push targets in very wrong directions. If your not a Guardian Jug you will never see this happen as it's due to lag and client/serverside calculations that make every push seem perfect to everyone BUT the one doing it.

 

It's not a game breaker or anything but, if some poor Guard/Jug pushes someone to a really bad place (say your goal line) it's probably not really their fault... FYI.

 

Just something good to know so you don't go off on one of us trying to make a last minute save and getting floored by wonky net code. When it happens, its really embarassing, can be game changing and is almost universally happening at the exact worst moment. Sometimes I wonder if there's some hack causing it, but that's probably just paranoia.

Edited April 26, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Reinholt]

This post needs to be stickied, as a Marauder and just all around player who wants to educate the community everything the OP said is true. Marauders have a counter, every class has a counter, but Marauders have the largest toolkit for strange scenarios. In ranked wz's you will see one, maybe two Marauders but no more than that on any team. This is crucial.

 

The simple truth is many of those in the community are not educated enough to play their own class effectively against the "op" classes like Marauders or even Bounty Hunters of 1.1.5, there is much truth to the OP statements, use CC, use slows and you will win every time WZ's are not a 1v1 deathmatch and if you try to 1v1 a Marauder you will most likely lose, same goes for a Jugg tank though.

[unicornfive]

Charge + push + charge is solid. If you dont think that combo is any worthy, you are the one who shouldn't be playing jug.

 

Charge at noob standing on the ramp before the goal in huttball.

Knock them down to the front of the goal.

Charge again.

Score.

 

Repeat.

 

Jugg = win. If you feel ike the class suck, l2p.

And for the record I've never once cried bout how weak mara were because I know they weren't.

Pre 1.2 and post 1.2, it makes no difference to me.

 

See how many ppl whine about maras.

See how many ppl whine about assassins.

See how many ppl whine about sorcs.

See how many ppl whine about operatives.

See how many ppl whine about mercs.

 

Plz show me some whine post of "plz nerf jugg they are so OP"

Juggs and snipers are the only classes that ppl dont whine about...

Think a bit.

 

And about charge push charge...wow...u found something that can work only in huttball...

Like sprint + force immunity and run through flames. Repeat.

Pull enemy ball carrier that is 1 step to scoreline, back to the fire pit. Repeat.

Aoe knockback everyone that attacks your ball carrier, over the ramp. Repeat.

Pull enemy player that goes toward to your scoreline, up to your spawning point and instant kill him without scoring. Repeat.

Pull friendly target on enemy ramp and get him ready to score. Repeat.

And other spells that are Usefull in huttball only...

 

According to you, a class is good if he performs good in 1 warzone?

"Plz nerf jugg class cause he can charge and score in huttball fast"

[Varicite]

Hrm, I was redirected to this thread from another "Nerf Maras" thread, which actually had some form of discussion going on.

 

This just seems to be a Juggernaut whining about being squishier than a Mara. <.<

 

Am I lost?

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

pros: bad players get to enjoy themselves, and maybe even think that they are good at the game.

cons: everyone else has to deal with this brief moment of marauder dominance.

 

end result: marauders are over-nerfed, some other class takes the reign and the cycle continues.

[veyl]

The OP is spot on. Unfortunately, these forums are filled with blind PvP'ers who won't learn from the weaknesses he listed. (I can kite a Marauder/sentinel on my Sorc all day long and kill them in 1.2, that should speak volumes considering how -terrible- the 1v1 dps for a sorc is against any class.)

 

Instead, Bioware will cave and over nerf the class (You wouldn't be balancing it, you'd make it unplayable at the competitive level if that ever happens.). It's a continuous cycle that the PVP development team cannot seem to break from.

 

I still think Operative//Smuggler healers are next though.

[Zellata]

They didn't.

10% less tracer dmg = 10% full auto.

There's always a catch.

 

All dps class got their dps buffed THROUGH expertise. So what if mara do a bit more dmg than other classes?

A dps class doing good dps = wrong?

 

A dps class doing considerably more dps than other dps classes = wrong.