The "Bubble" Tank 19/0/22

[Agooz]

Actually there are 0 advantages to this spec. I can't honestly believe that you're in this thread to begin with. That spec is the most ABYSMAL thing I have even seen for tanking. It's purely hideous. I'm not even going to break this spec down by piece, I'm just going to merely say it's not even worth my time considering the amount of wasted talents in this spec.

 

Going for the idea. Sacrificing more than 20% of added up mitigation is not worth somehow coming up with that joke of a spec that could MAYBE bring the cd of your bubble down by ONE MINUTE. Get out of here with this hideous excuse of a spec.

 

Down voted, terrible read.

 

http://www.swtor.raidranks.com/#!guild:302 (Go ahead try and say I'm inexperienced at tanking, you won't win this one sir.

 

First of all thanks for the bump.

 

Second, you're really good as a troll. Stick with it.

 

Third, I dont know where in the world you came up with sacrificing 20% mitigation, but I dont expect a troll to back up his ridiculous claims with any facts.

 

Fourth, already done 6 different HMs on two separate occasions using this spec, and a week later I am still asked to go in with it rather than the usual tank. I have also subbed in the Main Tank for HM Bonethrasher, HM Soa, HM Annihilation Droid, HM Sorno/Jarg, and Infernal Council (but that's not really a big deal). All this just for fun, as I am a DPS slot. I am hoping I would soon sub in for the Tank on our EC runs.

 

So I dont need you or anyone else actually to confirm whether this spec is viable or not. It is, period. Whether it is better or worse, and for what fights, that's another story. Just because you and/or your healers will be shaking in your boots standing in front of a boss in a spec like this, doesnt mean there arent people out there that cant.

[dardack]

Agooz how is it your getting to 30 sec CD. Doing the math Energy rebounder is 1.5 sec every 1.5 sec. That's 80 proc chances in 120 seconds, but obviously you won't ever reach 80 since while it's proc'ing the CD is also being reduced by the actual time passed.

 

OK so in 30 seconds 30 seconds came off from the 30 seconds, plus 20 proc's which is another 30 seconds, so in 30 seconds 1 min has come off the CD, leaving 1 min to go. SO basically ER makes the shield up every 60 seconds instead of 120 unless I'm missing something.

 

EDIT: Also gone pyro with WH armoring, i go 2pc combat tech, 2pc medic. Can't give up the extra stats/augment for the PVE shells. So 3 seconds to shield plus 1min CD is still very nice. I find that in NC if i take the enemies north base, I can have it when they come and when they rez and come back at me it's back up again. It's one of the most amazing abilities in the Pyro tree I've ever seen.

Edited May 9, 2012 by dardack

[Agooz]

Oh lol, if it was 30sec cooldown then every PT Tank would be crazy not to go that route. I believe in previous post I said 30sec "after the shield expires".

 

Here is what I wrote in one of the earlier posts:

Now after taking the time to do my own napkin math, I find the following:

- Getting hit every 3 sec. Would give you a 42sec cooldown after the shield expires.

- Getting hit every 2.5 sec. Would give you a 36sec cooldown after the shield expires.

- Getting hit every 2 sec. Would give you a 30sec cooldown after shield expires.

- Getting hit every 1.5 sec. Would give you a 21sec cooldown after shield expires.

 

If we take an avg of these, it would be around: 32sec cooldown after shield expires, which makes Energy Shield have an average 50sec total cooldown. That means in a 6min fight, you'd be able (on average) use Energy Shield (8) times, for a total of 144sec. That's 40% of the time being able to mitigate 25% damage on everything.

 

In summary what I mean to say is in this spec, you would be without the shield for 30some seconds.

 

Yes, in PvP I am addicted to the Energy Rebounder. The Tanksins and Marauders now pose absolutely no prob for me. I love it when I had just used it to beat down 2 people, then they spawn and come back, and I am looking at the cooldown counting down 15sec, 14sec, and by the time they reach me, I waste a few more sec with carbon and stuns, then shield up and take them both down AGAIN

[dardack]

How is it 32 sec after shield expires even with 18 sec, that is 42 seconds for 60 sec total. I don't see how you get it under 60sec CD.

[thrakkemarn]

How is it 32 sec after shield expires even with 18 sec, that is 42 seconds for 60 sec total. I don't see how you get it under 60sec CD.

 

What? Look back in the thread you will see how that number was acquired.

 

Shield lasts 18 seconds - ~30-35 seconds later (assuming you are being hit) it will be off cooldown. Thus, a total of ~50 seconds is the cooldown time. The napkin math is all listed in previous posts.

[dardack]

EDIT: NVm, I'm a dumkof.

 

I was seeing it as a 1.5 to 1.5, not a 1.5 to 3seconds. Shows you what I get for reading the tooltip without it full. My bad. So it's a 3:1 ratio. SO best case is 40 seconds (40 seconds from 120=80 left, 26.67 ticks of 1.5 sec in those 40 seconds * 3 seconds off CD=80). So more then likely with rounding 41 seconds total.

 

Man I wish i'd seen my math error before. 3:1 is huge compared to 1:1

 

Also, I've looked in my logs I can't find Energy Rebounder proc's in it:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/37fc2dbf-fa76-47f4-8498-002e15e44872/player/1#d=4

 

from like a 1.5 hr pvp session. Can anyone show me in their logs where it occurs or something?

Edited May 10, 2012 by dardack

[Agthomson]

Good to know it works well in KP and EV (didn't really have much doubt as they are pretty easy now).

 

The problems I have in EC are the first 2 bosses. Okay, for Zorn & Toth I guess that Jet Charge isn't really required as you can quite easily just pick up the other boss and run over with him instead of jumping across, but for Firebrand and Stormcaller you're risking the the AoE when you inevitably have to stand on the floor during the tank swap stage as you may no longer have the "buff" that prevents it.

 

Vorath should be a walk in the park regardless of spec, but Kephess hits really, really hard - and often. I think the mitigation you're losing could make this spec unsuitable for this fight.

 

This opinion is based on my guild running EC Story Mode with myself (MT) in full SC Rakata gear, Black Hole Implants and an Augmented Earpiece giving me just over 50% for Shield Chance & Absorb when in 31/8/2 spec. Obviously if you're in full Campaign gear Story Mode would be easier, but that's unlikely for me.

[dardack]

Good to know it works well in KP and EV (didn't really have much doubt as they are pretty easy now).

 

The problems I have in EC are the first 2 bosses. Okay, for Zorn & Toth I guess that Jet Charge isn't really required as you can quite easily just pick up the other boss and run over with him instead of jumping across, .

 

Why would you jump on first boss? Each tank stands back to the rock wall, then the dude jumps the tank taunts that one and the other tank taunts the other one. You focus the one your not tanking first and just Alt+F to switch your current target as your focus and your focus as your current target and press taunt.

 

Much easier.

[Agooz]

How is it 32 sec after shield expires even with 18 sec, that is 42 seconds for 60 sec total. I don't see how you get it under 60sec CD.

 

For example, assuming you are getting hit every 2sec:

Time (2sec interval).................Cooldown (3sec ER + 2 sec interval)

1...................................................117

3...................................................112

5...................................................107

7...................................................102

9....................................................97

11..................................................92

13..................................................87

15..................................................82

17..................................................77

19..................................................Shield Expires.........................1

21..................................................67............................................3

23..................................................62............................................5

25..................................................57............................................7

27..................................................52............................................9

29..................................................47............................................11

31..................................................42............................................13

33..................................................37............................................15

35..................................................32.............................................17

37..................................................27.............................................19

39..................................................22.............................................21

41..................................................17.............................................23

43..................................................12.............................................25

45..................................................07.............................................27

47..................................................02.............................................29

49..................................................Energy Shield Available.......31 (sec without Shield)

[Agooz]

Good to know it works well in KP and EV (didn't really have much doubt as they are pretty easy now).

 

The problems I have in EC are the first 2 bosses. Okay, for Zorn & Toth I guess that Jet Charge isn't really required as you can quite easily just pick up the other boss and run over with him instead of jumping across, but for Firebrand and Stormcaller you're risking the the AoE when you inevitably have to stand on the floor during the tank swap stage as you may no longer have the "buff" that prevents it.

 

Vorath should be a walk in the park regardless of spec, but Kephess hits really, really hard - and often. I think the mitigation you're losing could make this spec unsuitable for this fight.

 

This opinion is based on my guild running EC Story Mode with myself (MT) in full SC Rakata gear, Black Hole Implants and an Augmented Earpiece giving me just over 50% for Shield Chance & Absorb when in 31/8/2 spec. Obviously if you're in full Campaign gear Story Mode would be easier, but that's unlikely for me.

 

I agree, the challenge for this spec would be some of the fights in EC. It's just my brain cant fully accept, that a competent group (good dps, good healers, tanks that know what they are doing), would wipe on bosses merely for a 6% shield chance, 8% absorption, 2%mitigation.

But then again, my role 90% of the time is dps, so I could be wrong. But besides EC, and certainly for fresh 50s starting out HM FPs, I would encourage them to try this out.

[Anavarra]

I agree, the challenge for this spec would be some of the fights in EC. It's just my brain cant fully accept, that a competent group (good dps, good healers, tanks that know what they are doing), would wipe on bosses merely for a 6% shield chance, 8% absorption, 2%mitigation.

But then again, my role 90% of the time is dps, so I could be wrong. But besides EC, and certainly for fresh 50s starting out HM FPs, I would encourage them to try this out.

 

It just a matter of optimization. For a main tank, this spec does less damage/threat and absorbs less damage, in a spikier fashion. If you want to be the best tank that you can be, go full shield tech. More damage, better mitigation. Personally, I would encourage anyone who wants to be an actual tank to focus on full Shield Tech spec, since that's what they should be practicing to be the best tank possible.

 

It's a pretty decent hybrid if you want to do more damage while not tanking, while retaining decent tankiness when you are tanking. So it may have value for people who want to off-tank in Operations. But I would never want someone main tanking with a spec like this, since they're basically deliberately gimping themselves for that role.

[Agooz]

It just a matter of optimization. For a main tank, this spec does less damage/threat and absorbs less damage, in a spikier fashion. If you want to be the best tank that you can be, go full shield tech. More damage, better mitigation. Personally, I would encourage anyone who wants to be an actual tank to focus on full Shield Tech spec, since that's what they should be practicing to be the best tank possible.

 

It's a pretty decent hybrid if you want to do more damage while not tanking, while retaining decent tankiness when you are tanking. So it may have value for people who want to off-tank in Operations. But I would never want someone main tanking with a spec like this, since they're basically deliberately gimping themselves for that role.

 

This is the kind of sane criticism I cant really argue with and I appreciate it. The whole point of me starting this thread was never to show that it is a "better" way to tank. I just wanted to add a little variety and "fun" to the PT Tank, and give them an option to pump out more dps when tanking is not called for like the few examples we discussed in this thread, while still maintaining good mitigation.

 

EC really changed the rules with raiding and tanking especially, for the better of course. It might not be the place to use this spec, but certainly the majority of the tanking content in the game is nowhere near EC.

[Agthomson]

Re: Tank swapping positions on 1st boss - it's just how we roll - saves DPS swapping targets and possibly over-aggroing on the "wrong" boss, pulling them together. Of course, this only works in Story Mode where Fearful isn't as big a deal.

 

If EC is anything to go by, the BioWare will be making things harder in terms of end-game content which is good. It does seem though that they don't like off-tanks. 3 of the 4 bosses require 2 full tanks, and 1 only needs a single tank. I really like this spec, and the theory behind it, and would use it if I was only doing KP/EV.

[Fiddyy]

First of all thanks for the bump.

 

Second, you're really good as a troll. Stick with it.

 

Third, I dont know where in the world you came up with sacrificing 20% mitigation, but I dont expect a troll to back up his ridiculous claims with any facts.

 

Fourth, already done 6 different HMs on two separate occasions using this spec, and a week later I am still asked to go in with it rather than the usual tank. I have also subbed in the Main Tank for HM Bonethrasher, HM Soa, HM Annihilation Droid, HM Sorno/Jarg, and Infernal Council (but that's not really a big deal). All this just for fun, as I am a DPS slot. I am hoping I would soon sub in for the Tank on our EC runs.

 

So I dont need you or anyone else actually to confirm whether this spec is viable or not. It is, period. Whether it is better or worse, and for what fights, that's another story. Just because you and/or your healers will be shaking in your boots standing in front of a boss in a spec like this, doesnt mean there arent people out there that cant.

 

 

First: I posted my credentials, making me therefore not a troll.

Second: I was too lazy to rip apart why this spec is not valid I will do so following.

Third: Saying that you have killed SIX HM'S not only means that you are using this in OLD content, but also not the hardest difficulty. Oh and two of those bosses aren't tanked (lols)

 

This spec sacrifices alot of static mitigation damage. The 25% bubble on a shorter cooldown will in fact make you take more damage. The point of the bubble is to be able to mitigate HEAVY damage. Your class is one that relies on STATIC mitigation. When the bosses in this game have more damage in a more repetitive manner would this spec become a conversation, and even then being able to take hits for longer is better. Here's the solid point, the powertech class is based around having static mitigation and not dropping below the 25% mark, which in most situations isn't going to happen, and when it does you have your "bubble" which is already on the shortest possible cd of any damage mitigation cd in the game. If you want to play a class that is cooldown based, level a juggernaut, which happens to be my main, however I also have a PT and an Assassin, Lastly dude, don't come on here and get upset when better players come in and tell you that this theory won't work, because if you step into any content, which by the way the content you listed as having used this spec in isn't anything worthwhile at all. These are facts, not just trolling.

 

Edit: I've also tanked those bosses in full dps gear, just to reiterate my point

Edited May 11, 2012 by Fiddyy

[Agooz]

First: I posted my credentials, making me therefore not a troll.

Second: I was too lazy to rip apart why this spec is not valid I will do so following.

Third: Saying that you have killed SIX HM'S not only means that you are using this in OLD content, but also not the hardest difficulty. Oh and two of those bosses aren't tanked (lols)

 

This spec sacrifices alot of static mitigation damage. The 25% bubble on a shorter cooldown will in fact make you take more damage. The point of the bubble is to be able to mitigate HEAVY damage. Your class is one that relies on STATIC mitigation. When the bosses in this game have more damage in a more repetitive manner would this spec become a conversation, and even then being able to take hits for longer is better. Here's the solid point, the powertech class is based around having static mitigation and not dropping below the 25% mark, which in most situations isn't going to happen, and when it does you have your "bubble" which is already on the shortest possible cd of any damage mitigation cd in the game. If you want to play a class that is cooldown based, level a juggernaut, which happens to be my main, however I also have a PT and an Assassin, Lastly dude, don't come on here and get upset when better players come in and tell you that this theory won't work, because if you step into any content, which by the way the content you listed as having used this spec in isn't anything worthwhile at all. These are facts, not just trolling.

 

Maybe something is wrong with my browser, but I didnt see any "credentials". Just a broken empty stats link, not that it matters one bit. It's not like as a tank you are carrying the raid through. Not that there is anything worth bragging about, but guildranks are about "guilds" not individuals. Certainly, if as a tank and claim that by missing 6% shield, 8%absorption 2%mitigation, while having 25% roughly 40% of the boss fight, will lead to you dropping like a wet sack, then you have just lost all credibility (not that you had any to begin with).

 

This might come as a big shock for you, but the vast majority of tanks (PTs or not) are not running HM EC or NiMs, which 6 months into this game amounts to a small percentage of end game content. With regards to the "OLD" content, and the bosses that dont require tanking, that's the whole point which seemed to fly right over your head. Believe it or not, at least 75% of lvl50s are still running "Old" content and even HM FPs, OR maybe you though this forum is only for the top 10% players.

Edited May 11, 2012 by Agooz

[Fiddyy]

Maybe something is wrong with my browser, but I didnt see any "credentials". Just a broken empty stats link, not that it matters one bit. It's not like as a tank you are carrying the raid through. Not that there is anything worth bragging about, but guildranks are about "guilds" not individuals. Certainly, if as a tank and claim that by missing 6% shield, 8%absorption 2%mitigation, while having 25% roughly 40% of the boss fight, will lead to you dropping like a wet sack, then you have just lost all credibility (not that you had any to begin with).

 

This might come as a big shock for you, but the vast majority of tanks (PTs or not) are not running HM EC or NiMs, which 6 months into this game amounts to a small percentage of end game content. With regards to the "OLD" content, and the bosses that dont require tanking, that's the whole point which seemed to fly right over your head. Believe it or not, at least 75% of lvl50s are still running "Old" content and even HM FPs, OR maybe you though this forum is only for the top 10% players.

 

My point was this spec cannot, and will not work in any hard content, that's the end of what i have to say. If you want to use this spec to clear Normal ec/ Hm OLD CONTENT, then be my guest, when you decide to pull the real versions of the fight, I dare you to even try. I won't be standing in front of any boss shaking thinking that I'm scared. That spec just is not viable in any difficult content. Oh and if you click that link, and then change the size of raid at the top to 8 man, you will see my kills.

[Agooz]

My point was this spec cannot, and will not work in any hard content, that's the end of what i have to say. If you want to use this spec to clear Normal ec/ Hm OLD CONTENT, then be my guest, when you decide to pull the real versions of the fight, I dare you to even try. I won't be standing in front of any boss shaking thinking that I'm scared. That spec just is not viable in any difficult content. Oh and if you click that link, and then change the size of raid at the top to 8 man, you will see my kills.

 

Your point is miniscule in relevance to this thread. The game has only been out for 6months, has just launched in some areas of the world, people are still leveling their first character, thousands of would be tanks havent even seen lvl50 Flashpoints, let alone Operations and Hardmodes, and you're come here AND troll and call this "Old Content".

 

Your arrogant assumption that everyone and their mother is running Nightmare Mode Ops/HM EC is absurd. It's called progression for a reason. Even You didnt jump from fresh 50 to Nightmare in one night. And when you say you can tank an OPs in dps gear, yea I dare you to tank it fresh 50 dps gear, with the rest of your raid also in fresh 50/tionese gear. Going in a normal OPs with you and your group in Blackhole/Campain gear and clearing it with one hand tied behind you back is hardly something to brag about.