Premades ruining the pvp of this game

[RobNightfall]

No one likes being beat alot by very good premades,but there is no reason why a group of friends should not be able to group together,this is an mmo and lastly there is only four of them,now if you were talking eight man premades against PUG's then i would agree,but not with four man.

 

Except for the bit about bit about eight mans, this.

[laiboch]

What would be nice is once they setup cross server WZ's is to give premades their own queue. Pugs could Pug a long and be as organized as a monkey shat fight and premades could play strategy to their hearts content.

[stinkybird]

i am going to go out on a whim here and guess that people that are against this run in premades. then i want to also say that most of these premades are filled with people that just like to roll pugs.

 

if this is correct then basically what these people are saying is they don't want to go against another premade group. why? umm..maybe its because they know they will get rolled and then their premade will break up cause they cant win anymore. 9 out of 10 times that is what will happen to a premade when they lose. someone in the group will get upset then the next guy will so on and so on.

 

premade groups should want to go against other premade groups for the competition alone. going against pugs is not hard at all for them. it takes no real strategy to roll the helpless pugs running around like they have no idea what is going on. the true point of a premade SHOULD be to be the best group out there with the best strategy while playing with your friends.

 

imagine how much fun a rated GROUP bracket would be. kinda like what WOW did where your guilds group gets rated. it would even be better with a cross server queing system that ranked the top premades.

Edited April 26, 2012 by stinkybird

[RangerDseven]

I run premades. Its going to happen and I wont stop. The only choice that I have right now is to fight MAYBE another premade or some pugs. I actually prefer the closer games against other premades. Dont ***** when I roll your **** though. Its not my game; I'm just playing it.

[Digtahk]

Can we get official confirmation that cross server queuing will be implemented in the future?

 

This was something that was confirmed some time ago in the weekly community blogs and was initially supposed to be in 1.2......My understanding was the reason they pulled ranked warzones is the system would have been a complete farce on some of the completely unbalanced server communities. I would def be extremely disappointed if it was not implemented in the near future.

 

Personally I think that Xserver pvp should be BWs most urgent priority, as this is the single most significant impairment to the majority of peoples pvp experience and is actually a very real problem (unlike these phantom teams of 8 marauders which have caused all healers to stop playing and unsub)

[Jyzai]

there is no way a serious premade has fun farming a pug group. pugs will give up as soon as they notice its a premade. how can you possibly have fun not getting any competitive games.

 

sorry but if you think its fun then something is wrong with you.

 

Yea this can`t be said enough and I think is the real reason to hate premades. I know that is reason why I hate them

Edited April 26, 2012 by Jyzai

[crushinlames]

all i know is i go in Solo 90% of the time and i dont have any problems..you win some lose some who cares

[Archaar]

This was something that was confirmed some time ago in the weekly community blogs and was initially supposed to be in 1.2......My understanding was the reason they pulled ranked warzones is the system would have been a complete farce on some of the completely unbalanced server communities. I would def be extremely disappointed if it was not implemented in the near future.

 

Personally I think that Xserver pvp should be BWs most urgent priority, as this is the single most significant impairment to the majority of peoples pvp experience and is actually a very real problem (unlike these phantom teams of 8 marauders which have caused all healers to stop playing and unsub)

 

Honestly, they should have sorted out transfers or xserver PvP BEFORE 1.2, my server is completely dead. Anyone who did used to run premades have since left the game and most are not coming back. The people I talk to in guild at the moment are talking about the Guild Wars 2 beta this weekend. I was talking to people in fleet earlier and those who are staying are really concerned for the future of their server and the game, so they should be.

 

I think it's too late, people who have left have stated they won't be coming back, those who are staying are bored senseless on their dead servers and are just padding time until GW2 launches, the guild I am in at the moment, who do quite a bit of PvP are talking about what GW2 server we will be rolling on, not one of them has said they will stay in swtor.

 

It's a real shame to see such a promising game, die so quickly, with Bioware making so many mistakes. Maybe they can resurrect the game with Free to Play?

[HollowVamp]

Organization is one thing, unfair advantage is another, a pug group can end up without a healer or support while a premade has them, premade must be removed entirely in a pug match and pit them in a fight against other premades.

 

but your saying organization and unfair advantage are the same thing. make some friends, you can't call premades unfair, they have the brains to utilize whats there for the taking, it's not our fault the player base is filled with so many bads.

[V-Serp]

but your saying organization and unfair advantage are the same thing. make some friends, you can't call premades unfair, they have the brains to utilize whats there for the taking, it's not our fault the player base is filled with so many bads.

 

It's definitely an advantage, and it's certainly unfair in that people aren't given the option prior to the match to choose who they go up against.

 

But that unfairness isn't the premades fault. It's Bioware's fault in not making the rules to separate them. If they did, the shoe would be on the other foot, the bad premades could whine and stamp their feet as much as they want about it being unfair that they can't play against PUGs (which is a silly thing to claim, but I digress) but that'd be the system. If they wanted to play PUGs, they'd have to queue solo themselves.

 

I sincerely doubt they'll ever separate the queues. I posted about this way back in closed beta, so obviously they had the feedback, and they chose not to do it then. They won't do it now. Not enough people care. The average person queues solo but doesn't care enough to complain to Bioware about it or cancel their sub over it.

 

The best move now is to just drop if it looks hopeless. I usually stay just to test how I can do, but I think I have my answer. I had a Novarre Coast today against the top premade on the server. I had an undergeared group but had 5 Sents with me. I wanted to see how they could do. The ops leader quit when he saw the team, because he claimed it was hopeless. He was right of course.

 

Anyway I played through the match, got my 6 medals and 61 comms. I managed 1 kill, which happened to be the only kill for our side (and of course, meaning the only death on the other). I did not die, however my teammates died repeatedly. I got our only cap, and tried to get another cap the entire game but just couldn't get it and finally gave up at the end. I believe I had top damage and top healing as well.

 

And it was a total blowout. Not competitive at all. Totally pointless even with the improved rewards, because if it's not for that premade I'm probably getting at least 50% more comms even in a loss, and double in a win.

 

What's the point of non-competitive matches? No PUG group is going to beat a smart premade. The majority of people playing this game are bad, sure, but that means the PUG group is probably bad too even if the premade is. But still with inherent advantages, the premades will be beating most PUGs most of the time. I'd much rather have fun, competitive matches than rolling through PUGs. This is why I hate playing in premades or with them most of the time, it's not a challenge. I'm only interested in PUG vs PUG or premade vs. premade.

[Kanana]

It would be good if there was a "PUG Only" queue. Facing the same people each time is not fun.

[celebrei]

It would be good if there was a "PUG Only" queue. Facing the same people each time is not fun.

 

Indeed, why cant premades have their own queue, its a conceptual and logical game disaster to match premades with pugs, Bioware better do something about this imbalance or else more people will quit the game.

[Tiriensoul]

Obvious troll is obvious...

 

Step 1: PvP with friends instead of soloQ.

Step 2: No step 2, just invite some friends.

 

Majority is pugs, be glad they join. OR you would have to wait longer for pop.

Some cases... several hours.

 

Casuals rule, that's it.

 

I do pre-made and pug, when i do pre-made i want to face another pre-made, i don't wanna face pugs, it's boring and it's easy to win. Competition my friend. L2p... So you are in a guild pre-made, they want to face pugs? How sucky is your guild?

[Kharim]

You might as well say that it's unfair for some people to use vent in Ops, because others prefer not to use vent in Ops and would likely progress more slowly due to that disadvantage. In PVP you can lose and still eventually attain the best gear though. The only thing you're worried about is your pride.

 

On my server I see a lot of premades, but often a lot of those same people are in there solo too. Premades lose to pugs a decent amount (considering the disadvantage), and the level of competitiveness is usually high. A win/loss is determined a lot more by the number of bad or weak players that landed on your team, because 4 bad/weak players can handicap even a good premade. Good pug PVPers make the premade even more effective. Everyone gets to enjoy both sides at times. Is your server really so different?

 

Today we went up against other premades in 5/8 matches, and it was fun. The people on our side (pugs) got to enjoy beating some of those premades they hate so much. They probably thought they were just on a roll today~ The pugs matched up with the premades on the other side, they got beat by another f***ing premade, and came to complain on the forums.....

[cashogy]

disagree with the op.

 

queuing 4 is hardly a premade. 99% of the time the other 4 people on my team are more detrimental to us that the enemy.

 

the problem starts to occur when a couple of premades are matched against a full group of pugs. but thats what happens. if you dont like it, find your own premades. its an mmo after all, youre supposed to play with others

[celebrei]

You might as well say that it's unfair for some people to use vent in Ops, because others prefer not to use vent in Ops and would likely progress more slowly due to that disadvantage. In PVP you can lose and still eventually attain the best gear though. The only thing you're worried about is your pride.

 

On my server I see a lot of premades, but often a lot of those same people are in there solo too. Premades lose to pugs a decent amount (considering the disadvantage), and the level of competitiveness is usually high. A win/loss is determined a lot more by the number of bad or weak players that landed on your team, because 4 bad/weak players can handicap even a good premade. Good pug PVPers make the premade even more effective. Everyone gets to enjoy both sides at times. Is your server really so different?

 

Today we went up against other premades in 5/8 matches, and it was fun. The people on our side (pugs) got to enjoy beating some of those premades they hate so much. They probably thought they were just on a roll today~ The pugs matched up with the premades on the other side, they got beat by another f***ing premade, and came to complain on the forums.....

 

It is a straw man argument since vent or mumble is a third party program and not an inherent in game design, the inherent ingame design of matching premades vs pugs is that which is flawed, and no this is not a matter of pride, but a matter of fairness, you may claim your real or fabricated scenario of pug vs premade competitiveness in your server but it is apparent with the myriad of threads and posts in this forums that pugs vs premades in pvp give no competition whatsoever, it is an exercise in futility.

[celebrei]

disagree with the op.

 

queuing 4 is hardly a premade. 99% of the time the other 4 people on my team are more detrimental to us that the enemy.

 

the problem starts to occur when a couple of premades are matched against a full group of pugs. but thats what happens. if you dont like it, find your own premades. its an mmo after all, youre supposed to play with others

 

Hardly a premade and yet half of the team (the party who queued) is already a premade, thats already a 50% advantage against a 100% pug group, you may say that the random 4 in ur team is detrimental but in a full pug team thats already eight potential detriments to their gameplay.

[DJYSD]

Indeed, why cant premades have their own queue, its a conceptual and logical game disaster to match premades with pugs, Bioware better do something about this imbalance or else more people will quit the game.

 

 

I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about. I solo queue 98% of the time. The other 2% is with 1 or 2 others. I think the real problem is server-imbalance and not pre-made vs. pugs. The WZs aren't hard but when one faction is, as a whole, better geared, the boring part comes from that. I'm on SoAP (Sword of Ajunta Pall) and the Imps out number the Pubs 3:1 (at least) during primetime. On their fleet they LFG BM+ for premades and thats fine because they have the numbers to be picky. I'd rather keep pre-mades against pugs or else, at least on SoAP, the Imps will mainly be playing themselves and the gear/population problem will still persist. When the servers are better balanced, then address the pre-mades if that is still a problem. Also join a guild. Should help with some of your anxieties.

[gwrtheyn]

It's true, you might only que with 4 other people and use vent or mumble to coordinate your attacks but it's still a major major advantage over a group of 8 pug players, if adding insult to injury wasn't enough, you have 8 players making two parties then by dumb luck are grouped all together in the same Warzone match with them coordinating their gameplan and attacks on mumble/vent, it's so unfair and unjust that pugs must suffer the humiliation and disgrace of defeat against an unfair match between pug and premade, this must be stopped or no non-premade players will enter wz matches again.

 

premade vs random sucks and should not happen

everytime some good premades run que time go up by 5-10mins(a lot solos don´t que anymore)

most solo quers don´t have the time to build a grp or just don´t want to

even without vent a good heal/tank/2dd team will work much better than a random grp(possibly without a guard tank and a heal)

 

premades are atm driving a lot ppl out of pvp(possibly out of the game)

[celebrei]

I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about. I solo queue 98% of the time. The other 2% is with 1 or 2 others. I think the real problem is server-imbalance and not pre-made vs. pugs. The WZs aren't hard but when one faction is, as a whole, better geared, the boring part comes from that. I'm on SoAP (Sword of Ajunta Pall) and the Imps out number the Pubs 3:1 (at least) during primetime. On their fleet they LFG BM+ for premades and thats fine because they have the numbers to be picky. I'd rather keep pre-mades against pugs or else, at least on SoAP, the Imps will mainly be playing themselves and the gear/population problem will still persist. When the servers are better balanced, then address the pre-mades if that is still a problem. Also join a guild. Should help with some of your anxieties.

 

Its not one over the other, they are both problems, server imbalances and premade groups vs pug groups. But even if the servers have a 1:1 ratio population the premade vs pug problem will continue to persist since theres still a good chance a 4 party premade/ 4pug team will face an 8 pug team.

Edited April 26, 2012 by celebrei

[gwrtheyn]

Obvious troll is obvious...

 

Step 1: PvP with friends instead of soloQ.

Step 2: No step 2, just invite some friends.

 

Step3: only Premade vs Premade and let the solos have some fun

 

Since you say do only pvp with grp/friends,there should be no difference for you.

(else the solo quers will stop playing,only very few will build grps)

[Jean_Parisot]

I have to admit, I queued up for my usual fix of pvp last night and there was one or two pre-made teams running on the other side and they completely wiped the floor with us every every time. It was humbling to say the least, and really, I doubt it was that much fun for them either.

 

I'm not part of a guild and don't have the chance for regular guild meetings and stuff so I pug through all my pvp and I do very well at that. I recognise that the team needs to communicate to win and by no means just run around doing my own thing. Communicating through chat is do-able. But these pre-mades used their abilities so flawlessly in concert that they were just dropping us like flies.

 

I'm sure this pre-made would have enjoyed playing against other pre-mades to truly test themselves. But playing against pugs is no fun for either.

[celebrei]

Step3: only Premade vs Premade and let the solos have some fun

 

Since you say do only pvp with grp/friends,there should be no difference for you.

(else the solo quers will stop playing,only very few will build grps)

 

Personally i think players who usually play pvp as premades wouldnt want to even the playing field by matching them only with other premades since as a previous poster said premades take a lot if pride beating up pugs giving them the illusion that theyre good while if they are forced to fight only other premades if they are premades themselves woukd shatter their illusion of being good in pvp, its like a schoolyard bully who refuses to fight someone their own size and oreys upon the smaller and weaker students.

Edited April 26, 2012 by celebrei

[Visue]

It's true, you might only que with 4 other people and use vent or mumble to coordinate your attacks but it's still a major major advantage over a group of 8 pug players, if adding insult to injury wasn't enough, you have 8 players making two parties then by dumb luck are grouped all together in the same Warzone match with them coordinating their gameplan and attacks on mumble/vent, it's so unfair and unjust that pugs must suffer the humiliation and disgrace of defeat against an unfair match between pug and premade, this must be stopped or no non-premade players will enter wz matches again.

 

Yeah, they need to fix this. This should be the top priority, along with server merges.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

premade vs random sucks and should not happen

everytime some good premades run que time go up by 5-10mins(a lot solos don´t que anymore)

most solo quers don´t have the time to build a grp or just don´t want to

even without vent a good heal/tank/2dd team will work much better than a random grp(possibly without a guard tank and a heal)

 

premades are atm driving a lot ppl out of pvp(possibly out of the game)

 

I am sorry, but that is such a sweeping statement, I find it hard to get my head around what your actual problem is.

 

Firstly, where are your numbers to prove this statement?

 

Personally, it is the whining and sulking that makes me want to play less, not the fact that sometimes I encounter better players than myself. We can't always be number one in a multiplayer game I am afraid. If that is your goal, I seriously suggest you try some solo games, where the player is always the hero.

 

For the record, I queue solo or with a real life friend, so duo at most. That said, I tend to find I am "pugging" with a lot of the same people over and over, and fighting the same names over and over, so you should be learning each others playstyles and figuring out who your most dangerous enemies are, just from the fact that you continue to play the game. It's not rocket science, we all win and we all lose, sometimes you just have to suck it up when your *** is continually being ganked.

Edited April 26, 2012 by ThorgrimLutgen