Grumblechris Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 So, after the 1.2 nerf, the following heatseeker missle nerf (fix) and recent sniper buff, BH merc is looking less relevant as a viable DPS class. I'm in a top raiding guild, and we've done plenty of raiiding with combat logs up, and Aresenal Mercs sat firmly in 3rd place on the DPS list, after Marauders and snipers. NOW however, Snipers have had a buff in the DPS department by a whopping 5% across the board, which almost puts them up there with Marauder DPS. There seems less reason than ever to bring an Arsenal Merc - Snipers were already out-DPSing us anyway, and now it's just a joke. I really think that the ranged DPS classes should have more comparable DPS. I know Mercs have extra utility such as better survivability and a couple of inefficient heals, but in a high-end PvE situation, these should not be any real benefit. When picking a raid, would you pick the DPS class that does 10% more or 10% less DPS? regardless of inherent survivability of a class, you're going to pick the higher DPS. I know that enrage timers aren't all that tight in HM EC, but come NMM we'll need every bit of DPS we can muster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadobndr Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 All some do is whine, and recheck your facts, Snipers did not get a 5 percent increase in damage across the board, that is simply untrue. they just like BH had to respec some things around and change playstyle also, i wonder do you or have you ever played a sniper? I think not, sniper is only great unless the mob or player never gets to u, you have to plan every engaugement, they wear crappy ac, and nothing is worse then a sniper having meleer on em.. Don't spout crap without knowing the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterWiseGuy Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 All some do is whine, and recheck your facts, Snipers did not get a 5 percent increase in damage across the board, that is simply untrue. they just like BH had to respec some things around and change playstyle also, i wonder do you or have you ever played a sniper? I think not, sniper is only great unless the mob or player never gets to u, you have to plan every engaugement, they wear crappy ac, and nothing is worse then a sniper having meleer on em.. Don't spout crap without knowing the facts. Wow, so that's your way of answering this post? Tell him he's whining and he should re roll as a sniper. Great community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCICAN Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 idd the above poster woth such usefull comments shoul dread TODAYs patch notes not 1.2 and then see that .... Knights 5% buff on some skills Also Smugglers and Gunslingers +5% Coz they were really struggling to kill us paper tigers before..... as a guild leader and a BH merc main , i have bit my tongue , tried to say to myself 'its not that bad' we were OP in some areas But its ridiculous.... Nerf after nerft , then a stealth nerf .. then a fix (nerf) i parse all our raids with Mox BH now sit at the bottom of the pile even against other classes that are undergeared The aoe nerf to DFA ( now Pillow from above) look at the troopers circle and the sorc's circle on force storm.. they are like DFA used to be so how did they bring our DFA in line with these other classes skills? they did not, they repeatedly beat us with the nerf bat and just as we begged 'No More' they bought a new bat and went to town on us again..... Because one or two people in each thread created tells us we do not know how to play our BH's and we are just whining.. Everyone who plays a BH knows we have been gimped beyond recognition, most are having to roll biochem to compete..... we are the PVP free kill now , we used to be an easy kill if 3 or more got around us but we would kick your *** if u charged at us and let us stand still.... The list is endless ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumblechris Posted April 24, 2012 Author Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) All some do is whine, and recheck your facts, Snipers did not get a 5 percent increase in damage across the board, that is simply untrue. they just like BH had to respec some things around and change playstyle also, i wonder do you or have you ever played a sniper? I think not, sniper is only great unless the mob or player never gets to u, you have to plan every engaugement, they wear crappy ac, and nothing is worse then a sniper having meleer on em.. Don't spout crap without knowing the facts. Fact is, the numerous abilities that got the 5% buff are all part of a dps sniper's rotation. Yes, I know it isn't going to be a flat 5% buff, I was exaggerating marginally. Regardless, it is a significant increase. As to your other points, I am referring only to PvE endgame. I'm not reffering to levelling content or anything, or PvP, so having a meleeer on them isn't really a relevant point. I thought I made this fairly clear. I addressed the survivability aspect in my original post. Yes, I know this is a 'whine', but I feel it justified. There are only 3 truly relevant classes for end-game pure DPS, Arsenal Merc being the weakest of the three, but still relevant. I guess this sniper buff just seems like a bit of a slap in the face, considering that they are already higher DPS and especially after the slew of nerfs we've received. Edited April 24, 2012 by Grumblechris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankyhobo Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 idd the above poster woth such usefull comments shoul dread TODAYs patch notes not 1.2 and then see that .... Knights 5% buff on some skills Also Smugglers and Gunslingers +5% Coz they were really struggling to kill us paper tigers before..... as a guild leader and a BH merc main , i have bit my tongue , tried to say to myself 'its not that bad' we were OP in some areas But its ridiculous.... Nerf after nerft , then a stealth nerf .. then a fix (nerf) i parse all our raids with Mox BH now sit at the bottom of the pile even against other classes that are undergeared The aoe nerf to DFA ( now Pillow from above) look at the troopers circle and the sorc's circle on force storm.. they are like DFA used to be so how did they bring our DFA in line with these other classes skills? they did not, they repeatedly beat us with the nerf bat and just as we begged 'No More' they bought a new bat and went to town on us again..... Because one or two people in each thread created tells us we do not know how to play our BH's and we are just whining.. Everyone who plays a BH knows we have been gimped beyond recognition, most are having to roll biochem to compete..... we are the PVP free kill now , we used to be an easy kill if 3 or more got around us but we would kick your *** if u charged at us and let us stand still.... The list is endless ....... This is actually quite amusing for me, merc is probably the easiest class to play and the armor debuff bug had to fixed because it was overpowered. You still have more utility than a sniper, and yes other classes have had to roll biochem to keep up with YOU for quite some time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaticJoe Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 So, after the 1.2 nerf, the following heatseeker missle nerf (fix) and recent sniper buff, BH merc is looking less relevant as a viable DPS class. I'm in a top raiding guild, and we've done plenty of raiiding with combat logs up, and Aresenal Mercs sat firmly in 3rd place on the DPS list, after Marauders and snipers. NOW however, Snipers have had a buff in the DPS department by a whopping 5% across the board, which almost puts them up there with Marauder DPS. There seems less reason than ever to bring an Arsenal Merc - Snipers were already out-DPSing us anyway, and now it's just a joke. I really think that the ranged DPS classes should have more comparable DPS. I know Mercs have extra utility such as better survivability and a couple of inefficient heals, but in a high-end PvE situation, these should not be any real benefit. When picking a raid, would you pick the DPS class that does 10% more or 10% less DPS? regardless of inherent survivability of a class, you're going to pick the higher DPS. I know that enrage timers aren't all that tight in HM EC, but come NMM we'll need every bit of DPS we can muster. My first and main toon is a level 34 Arsenal Merc and there were times I have struggled with bosses or objectives but would chalk it up to L2P issues--even after 1.2 rolled out--as I am still learning how to play him and the game. I thought I needed to do a better job of learning and using what skills and attacks I have as well as make better reward choices...but the more threads and comments I read all saying the same thing, I can't help but wonder if it wasn't all me and getting cut off at the knees had a part to play...that said, I still LOVE the Merc--wielding 2 blasters just rocks but may permanently respec to Pyro...I'll miss Rocket Punch and Jet Boost but if BW is going to keep reducing the effectiveness of our attacks, I then have no choice but to alter what I like to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mziri Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) There is definitely something wrong with arsenal atm. I got to 78 valor in arsenal spec. Am quite good at it, and was good at it even post 1.2, both in pve and pvp 1.2c comes out, and I suddenly have trouble killing almost anyone, even if I get the drop on them. My heatseeker hits for 4.5k max crit, which is what it hit for before I got warhero gear, before I got full augment slots, before 1.2. It is definitely not 10% improved from before. If anything, it hits for less, or else the gear buff, and the change to how expertise works, would make it do more than it did before. Yesterday, I swapped to pyrotech on my merc. Even though I have 0 pyrotech experience at all, so I would expect to be much better off in arsenal, my wz damage was suddenly doubled. I still die almost instantly and have trouble killing some classes even by surprise (marauder, powertech), but I should not double my damage by swapping to a spec I have no experience in. That is unreasonable. Fix arsenal please. Edited April 24, 2012 by Mziri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxarale Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) This is actually quite amusing for me, merc is probably the easiest class to play and the armor debuff bug had to fixed because it was overpowered. You still have more utility than a sniper, You remind me of the idiots that used to post this tripe on the hunter forums in WOW... "Hunters are easy to play so they should do crap damage!" Of course when you looked at the guy posting it, it was a 1 button wonder Arcane Mage... We were in no way OP, the fact is the game was fresh out and people had not figured how to counter Arsenal in PVP and just cried so they nerfed us... now that everyone understands not to let us stand still and turret... we can be destroyed... add in the nerfs... and we are unplayable just like hunters in PVP... As for the PVE side of it... because babies like you that had no clue how to counter us in PVP... we now are the lowest PVE damage in the game... and PLEASE leave the "You still have more utility than a sniper." crap off the boards... what utility is it that we bring to a raid trying to kill a boss??? You again sound like the idiots in WoW... hunters have traps, MD, Concus shot, disengage, deterrence, blah blah blah... and absolutely 0 of all that utility was ever used in a raid post BC... just like none of Arsenals so called "utility" means squat in PVE raids now... Just close it down and head back to WoW bro, I hear they are buffing hunters utility in Mistake of the Pandas... there might be time for you to complain about it before it comes out if you hurry!!!!!! I think not, sniper is only great unless the mob or player never gets to u, you have to plan every engaugement, they wear crappy ac, and nothing is worse then a sniper having meleer on em.. L2readandcomprehend... The OP is about PVE, so um... there is not gonna be a mob or player ever getting to you, and generally speaking (I think right at 100% of the time) everyone has to plan out what they are going to do during a boss fight... A snipers AC means 0 during raids as they do not get hit, and since you will never have a meleer (is that even a word???) on you because the tanks... actually.... wait for it...... wait for it... TANK the mobs so you can sit back and pew pew... Please read and understand what the original post is all about before you spit venom at him about a completely different topic ok? tks! Edited April 24, 2012 by Jaxarale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankyhobo Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 herpa derp! Your post made my day, you don't know anything about me but somehow jump to some spectacular conclusions. *gets out the popcorn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimoTribal Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 This is actually quite amusing for me, merc is probably the easiest class to play and the armor debuff bug had to fixed because it was overpowered. You still have more utility than a sniper, and yes other classes have had to roll biochem to keep up with YOU for quite some time now. The armor debuff is broken now, they didnt fix it they flat out broke it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greviouz Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Your post made my day, you don't know anything about me but somehow jump to some spectacular conclusions. *gets out the popcorn* and you are a clueless smuck....Arsenal did get nerfed more than the patchnotes in 1.2c said as said before its a ninja nerf... and Arsenal is on the bottom of the dps food chain atm....before 1.2 mox had me at around 12-1300 dps after a 5 min fight....ran the parser today on same dummy using better gear and rakata consumables(stim power adrenal)....used adrenal 2 times and relic 4 times during the 5 mins 1060 dps was armormech before 1.2 when i was at 12-1300 dps changed to biochem because i got the rakata bracers and belt i needed aka i have a 475 extra power every 3 mins i have played arsenal since 13th december 2011 thats 5 months as arsenal and have been put on many friends lists because i was a good dps'er ....still manage to hit around 1200 dps but thats only for the time the adrenal/relic both are activated i manage to hit around 4,8k HSM crits(something witch i hit for solo before the nerf of HSM without using adrenal/relic) also only merc in the 8 man team i run with so havent noticed any of the ubercrits ppl have been telling on forums hitting 13-15k HSM's and sniper did recieve a 5% buff on almost every skill they got in yesterdays patch...snipe, ambush, followtrough takedown and series of shots( sniper that i raid with already was above me in half pve gear and pvp gear. while i have a full pve set and have about 150-200 more of my stat than he got) and i know how to use my class i use unload on barrage proc every time use railshot on 5x target lock HSM on cd and use tracer as filler between procs and manage to always keep below 50% heat with some rapid shots between to keep heat at a ok point(ofc i pull above when its needed to dps something down fast or class cd's are used such as bloodthirst for the 15% extra party dmg and use of adrenals(witch is carefully planned out to maximize its potential on bosses) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greviouz Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 and what extra utility does a BH have over a sniper?....in the case of PvE i would say sniper got more utility with their AoE shield and for PvP They gota AoE knockback just as BH and a talented 10m knockback trough ambush + they got a AoE cc(breaks on dmg) and a slow in the same bloody spec and mara is a just as easy class if not easier to play in pvp and pve...you charge in use massacre-rupture gore then use ravage and force scream as ravage goes out...that pretty brings most below 50% in a short time...and thats in less than 5 secs...for a BH it takes 4.5 secs of casting + unload 3 secs and a HSM to bring somone down to the same as it is now and BH got 0 surv exept the ****** energy shield that only takes 25% dmg off witch is negliable by most other classes mara got 2 skills that does the same as energy shield + undying rage + force camuflage witch makes you invisible for a few moments increase movement speed and has a 50% dmg reduction while its active.....now if you say things are balanced.....god help me i will smack you so hard on your head that it comes out where the sun dont shine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewert Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 before 1.2 mox had me at around 12-1300 dps after a 5 min fight....ran the parser today on same dummy using better gear and rakata consumables(stim power adrenal)....used adrenal 2 times and relic 4 times during the 5 mins 1060 dps Ack, I was afraid of this due to the TM bug that now even arsenal is poop. Please tell you aren't in full rakata equivalent gear? =( So far 1.2: Bodyguards nerfed to unviability in hardcore progressive raiding (I was bodyguard since early access) Pyro nerf due to pvp whines, pulling in 30% less dps than marauders, don't know sniper current values but as snipers got a nice buff just ... Arsenal bugfixed to fix an unintended extra dmg bug, AND that bugfix bugged the extra dmg totally so it is now bugged in the OTHER direction, and suddenly arsenal too is poop? Gah ... So, I could heal for 20-50% less than some another healer depending on fights (AoE usability), I could dps for 30% less than marauders in pyro, or I could dps about as much less in arsenal? I pull about 1170 as pyro vs the dummy, last night around 1050 at each 3 first bosses of HM EC, the marauder did 1600+ on two tanks for example. I hope it is just a gear difference to your arsenal dummy test, I wish to do atleast some more dmg as arsenal tonite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewert Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 As for utility: Mercs can't interrupt. There are now interrupt mechanics in the new op. Mercs can only selfshield + selfheal outside GCD, unlike others who can groupshield & groupheal & groupbuff dmg midfight. Mercs can heal, but that is really only useful as hailmarys for a major poop situation (probably a wipe), or to take off some pressure of healers if there is no targets available. If you have the normal amount of healers in the raid (not bounty hunters though) then that is moot, as a sorc AoE trivializes healing in most situations of "no target available". Mercs can stun+cc, but so can every other class too ... ours doesn't add a debuff on the mob though like agents if specced that way. So yeah, tell us exactly what the supposed merc utility is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greviouz Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) Ack, I was afraid of this due to the TM bug that now even arsenal is poop. Please tell you aren't in full rakata equivalent gear? =( So far 1.2: Bodyguards nerfed to unviability in hardcore progressive raiding (I was bodyguard since early access) Pyro nerf due to pvp whines, pulling in 30% less dps than marauders, don't know sniper current values but as snipers got a nice buff just ... Arsenal bugfixed to fix an unintended extra dmg bug, AND that bugfix bugged the extra dmg totally so it is now bugged in the OTHER direction, and suddenly arsenal too is poop? Gah ... So, I could heal for 20-50% less than some another healer depending on fights (AoE usability), I could dps for 30% less than marauders in pyro, or I could dps about as much less in arsenal? I pull about 1170 as pyro vs the dummy, last night around 1050 at each 3 first bosses of HM EC, the marauder did 1600+ on two tanks for example. I hope it is just a gear difference to your arsenal dummy test, I wish to do atleast some more dmg as arsenal tonite. only rakata i have is ear belt(augmented) and bracer got columi implants columi chest boots and legs tionese head and hands matrix cube relic and a power relic in raids i sit on 1882 aim solo around 1790 with stim just for fun/boredom i got a lvl 13 sniper....just a few moments ago i hit 4k ambush on a lvl 40 operative. my sniper is in green lvl 8-12 gear(rifle from BT) and 2.5k regular crits with snipe......my sniper does more dps in pvp than my merc does at lvl 50 with close to 1k exp and hits harder too with just spamming snipe and ambush(a general skill you get at lvl 10 when you choose sniper as AC that is more powerful than talented skills other classes have. witch requires you to be lvl 20 or 40 to take use of) Edited April 25, 2012 by greviouz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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