About looting with others in Flashpoint/Operation...

[MugetsuDragoncry]

This issue bothered me for a long time...

Well, I'm a fresh 50 and upgrading my gear recently by doing daily & low level HM FPs, in a slow pace

When it comes to FP everything is fine except the looting part

I always choose need just like others do

And when I win the roll at the time

Some guys will grumble about:

"Hey! you can't even equip it!" or "WHAT ARE YOU XXXXXXX DOIN!?"

and kick me out the party with bad luck sometimes

And I'm just like: "What, I can't loot it just because my gear is inferior to yours? I think i've done my job for a DPS should have! you a jug and you even loot for light armor man!"

 

...Is it me or the others?

[Lheim]

This issue bothered me for a long time...

Well, I'm a fresh 50 and upgrading my gear recently by doing daily & low level HM FPs, in a slow pace

When it comes to FP everything is fine except the looting part

I always choose need just like others do

And when I win the roll at the time

Some guys will grumble about:

"Hey! you can't even equip it!" or "WHAT ARE YOU XXXXXXX DOIN!?"

and kick me out the party with bad luck sometimes

And I'm just like: "What, I can't loot it just because my gear is inferior to yours? I think i've done my job for a DPS should have! you a jug and you even loot for light armor man!"

 

...Is it me or the others?

 

Ah, you're misunderstanding the system, Mugetsu.

 

There's three options; Need, Greed, and Pass.

 

'Need' rolls get precedence over greed rolls. Anybody who needs will win over somebody who only hits greed.

 

The general MMO etiquette is that you only 'need' on items your character can actually use. Otherwise, you're depriving people who worked just as hard at getting the item to drop of at least the chance to sell the item for a few credits - if nobody needs to wear an item, everybody greeds, everybody gets an equal shot at the spare cash, yeah?

 

Need if it's an upgrade, something you would -wear-. Greed for all else. SWTOR has this little wrinkle with companion gearing, and it's generally settled that they're only worth what you would get with 'greed' - in other words, not as important as gearing up an actual player character.

 

Hope that helps! It's just a matter of politeness, once you understand how rolling works.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Lheim

[MugetsuDragoncry]

Ah thanks for that! (Smack to the head

I always think there's no difference between need and greed

and it will be more polite just to pass the loot

How shameful...

I will notice about that next time

Edited April 24, 2012 by MugetsuDragoncry

[Lheim]

Ah thanks for that! (Smack to the head

I always think there's no difference between need and greed

and it will be more polite just to pass the loot

How shameful...

I will notice about that next time

 

Seriously, no problem.

 

It's not intuitive and there's no help in game - hell, it should be one of the first tutorials a new player sees. I understand people getting rude over it - it's like a sacred rule of mmo grouping, but we gotta remember there's newbies too!

[Cynomen]

Ah, you're misunderstanding the system, Mugetsu.

 

There's three options; Need, Greed, and Pass.

 

'Need' rolls get precedence over greed rolls. Anybody who needs will win over somebody who only hits greed.

 

The general MMO etiquette is that you only 'need' on items your character can actually use. Otherwise, you're depriving people who worked just as hard at getting the item to drop of at least the chance to sell the item for a few credits - if nobody needs to wear an item, everybody greeds, everybody gets an equal shot at the spare cash, yeah?

 

Need if it's an upgrade, something you would -wear-. Greed for all else. SWTOR has this little wrinkle with companion gearing, and it's generally settled that they're only worth what you would get with 'greed' - in other words, not as important as gearing up an actual player character.

 

Hope that helps! It's just a matter of politeness, once you understand how rolling works.

 

Well said here. ^^^^^

 

Something to consider is before you start the instance, speak up and ask about looting for your companions. Some groups only like to use "greed" for that, but some are ok with "need" if you know you need it.

 

:wea_03:

[shama]

Ah thanks for that! (Smack to the head

I always think there's no difference between need and greed

and it will be more polite just to pass the loot

How shameful...

I will notice about that next time

 

Despite what some may say, it isn't really obvious if you are a new player the difference between need and greed.

 

'Need' in English language isn't 100% clear. Do I 'need' something because I need to make money? I have a real need to make money, so I can purchase a better speeder ... but in MMO loot rolls that isn't 'need', that is greed.

Others have stayed away from the 'greed' button because they think that greed is bad, and if they press that button they are saying that they are greedy ... so not knowing the difference will always press need.

 

But now you've learnt the difference just move on, learn from it, and keep an eye out for others who may also misunderstand the 'rules'. First off, be sure you know which items are YOUR class items ... which armour class you can wear and which attribute is your primary stat.

 

Then you can learn which classes 'need' which items, and if you see someone rolling need on something they can't use then ask them nicely if they know the difference between need/greed. i.e. smugglers rolling need on light/heavy armour items, or Jedi Knights rolling need on +willpower items.

Everyone is a newb at some point, and it can be hard to put yourself in their position and remember the things you didn't know - and now take for granted as 'obvious'.

[shama]

By pressing NEED roll on an item that you don't really need and by taking it for yourself, you are preventing the person who actually needs it from getting it.

 

I don't think there is anything more rude and offensive that you could do to another player in a game like this.

 

I completely agree, when it is done by people who are fully aware of the way loot rolls work - and there are certainly ninjas out there who don't give a flying fig about others and will keep doing this for as long as they can get away with it.

 

But new players, who don't know the rules because they've never been exposed to this need/greed concept that people like you and me have ingrained from many other games, just don't know any better ... and passing on the information about how it works is a better thing to do that treat them like the first group of people (who *are* scum!).

 

Ninja's generally don't post in the forum asking what they are doing wrong, because they know exactly what they've done wrong and don't care.

[Eternalnight]

And few more things...

I always choose need just like others do

I'm pretty sure you are lying here. Or at least you are not paying attention to what is happening.

I mean, I have no doubt that you yourself have been acting like a complete jerk and pressing need on everything, but I'm quite sure you are wrong when you say that all the other people also always press need on everything.

 

That would be just stupid.

 

Ok, let's take an example like this:

 

Let's assume that you have a 4-man group of 4 different classes. You encounter a boss that has 4 items in it's loot list. Each class can use 1 of the 4 items

 

Now you have 2 options to how you can handle the looting:

 

Option A:

Everybody will choose NEED only on items they are going to use and GREED on anything else.

This means that there is 1/4 chance of an item that you can use will drop, but if it drops, you have 100% of getting it because you will be the only one needing it.

In total, you then have 1/4 chance of getting an item that is useful to you.

 

Option B:

Everybody will press NEED roll on everything

Again there is 1/4 chance that an item that is useful to you will drop, but even if it does drop, you only have 1/4 chance of winning it, because everyone is choosing need roll.

In total, in this case, you have only 1/16 chance to get an item that is useful to you, and for every drop there is now 3/4 chance that it ends up in the possession of a someone to whom it is useless, even though there was someone in the group who could have used it.

 

 

As a person who insists on pressing NEED on everything, you must be a one who believes that the option B is somehow better than A.

 

So, please, can you please explain why do you think B is better? If you can't think of a good reason, maybe you should not need everything.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Eternalnight

[MugetsuDragoncry]

Well, I might be completely jerk at playing MMO cause I'm a newbie at 50

no matter what you said

I played the whole game almost alone due to the population of my server

But now i'm informed, and confessed about what i've done

Not everyone could tell the real difference between Need & Greed at the beginning

Greed is a word with stronger meaning than Need, in my opinion

BTW, The point of this thread isn't really about lying

Don't get me wrong

Besides that, thanks for your reply with heart

And I don't want to argue in this forum

You're all awesome people

[Beemerchick]

I mean, I have no doubt that you yourself have been acting like a complete jerk and pressing need on everything,

 

And I am sure you were born knowing everything about MMOs and exactly what "Need" and "Greed" mean.

 

As a person who insists on pressing NEED on everything, you must be a one who believes that the option B is somehow better than A.

 

Or someone who hasn't played an MMO before and honestly believes "Need" is more polite than "Greed." (Being greedy is bad...)

Edited April 24, 2012 by Beemerchick

[Eternalnight]

LOL calm down, he didn't understand... I'm sorry but this has to be the saddest post I've ever seen. You get so worked up over a game.

 

Actually, I am and have always been perfectly calm. And maybe you should not get so worked up over a post in the discussion forums. Even if the style is unpleasant to some people it does serve a purpose. Yes, I know it is possible to not know how the loot system works, but that is a side issue.

 

Sometimes I like to play a little role here.

 

I am acting out the role of the people who kicked him out of the group to demonstrate what they might have been thinking when they kicked him out of the group.

 

You may not like it, but I think this actually helps to understand why these things happen.

 

But leave it at that, they already deleted those posts.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Eternalnight

[Darthshnooky]

Actually, I am and have always been perfectly calm. And maybe you should not get so worked up over a post in the discussion forums. Even if the style is unpleasant to some people it does serve a purpose. Yes, I know it is possible to not know how the loot system works, but that is a side issue.

 

Sometimes I like to play a little role here.

 

I am acting out the role of the people who kicked him out of the group to demonstrate what they might have been thinking when they kicked him out of the group.

 

You may not like it, but I think this actually helps to understand why these things happen.

 

But leave it at that, they already deleted those posts.

 

You're not playing a role or being the "devil's advocate" for these forums, you're just being rude to a new player looking for help and asking for it. Even at 50, someone can still be a new player. Attacking them doesn't help anything, it just makes people less likely to return when they are in need of help again in the future.

[A_Simple_Farmer]

I've been gaming for almost 30 years and have managed to escape the lure of MMOs until SWTOR. I jumped into this game recently and just tried to figure things out as I went along. I've been confused about a great many things and I certainly didn't understand the loot system until I read through the FAQs yesterday.

 

While it makes sense now, I can't be the only new gamer that thought that "greed" is bad and "need" is good. I've been cheating other players our of loot without even knowing it. I'm just glad I didn't run across some of the rudeness expressed here. Thanks to all those who have taken the time to help us "newbies" through.

[Nunil_Malis]

While it makes sense now, I can't be the only new gamer that thought that "greed" is bad and "need" is good. I've been cheating other players our of loot without even knowing it. I'm just glad I didn't run across some of the rudeness expressed here. Thanks to all those who have taken the time to help us "newbies" through.

 

 

I've played WoW before, but never been a Raid/Group Instance guy, basically i just grouped with the 3 or 4 friends i was playing with and until now, i never realized that Greed is better than Need I'm having a blast playing SWTOR (with only 3 friends) and we don't have so much free time as we intended to, so we could play this more actively. So, based on this, we rarely group with others (as we don't like to force others to our time constrins, or even our will to "stay" in a grouped FP), so we all thought that "Greed" is worst than the "more polite Need"...ohhh how wrong were we

 

As the great Gordon Gecko said, "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good"

[Darthshnooky]

I've played WoW before, but never been a Raid/Group Instance guy, basically i just grouped with the 3 or 4 friends i was playing with and until now, i never realized that Greed is better than Need I'm having a blast playing SWTOR (with only 3 friends) and we don't have so much free time as we intended to, so we could play this more actively. So, based on this, we rarely group with others (as we don't like to force others to our time constrins, or even our will to "stay" in a grouped FP), so we all thought that "Greed" is worst than the "more polite Need"...ohhh how wrong were we

 

As the great Gordon Gecko said, "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good"

 

Well, it's not that one is better than the other, it's a priority system. If you really need something, as in it is a direct upgrade for you, then you should have priority over people who just want to sell it for credits out of greed.

[SelinaH]

Yes, I know it is possible to not know how the loot system works, but that is a side issue.

 

It's not a side issue; it's the entire point of the thread. The OP was not aware of why what (s)he was doing is considered wrong. Now (s)he does, and has agreed to stop doing it.

 

There's no need to pile your grievances onto a new player who just didn't know any better. Why not save the righteous indignation for the real ninja looters - the ones who just don't give a crap about anyone else?

[padawan_ryan]

I am a level 23 noob and am completely guilty of this ignorance. I seriously thought greed was stronger than need and publicly apologize to any group members I might have torqued off because of this.

This was a very help full thread. Thanks all!