You Jedi Need a Reality Check...

[Djspyder]

On the contrary; My Inquisitor showed mercy to those she defeated and worked to reform The Council for the betterment of its citizens.

 

The big difference was, when I served the people, it was a lightside choice. When I served the people as a Jedi, it's a dark side choice.

 

This is what I don't understand... That Has NEVER happened to me... My consular AND my Knight... Both saved Lives all the time... never once Got DS points for it....

 

Anytime The choice was to kill someone or spare Someone the LS choice was to let them live.... As a consular on Taris I had the Choice to save Jedi relics or save A womans life... saving the woman was the LS choice... AS a consular, Almost every "Boss" i've defeated gave me the choice to save them or kill them... and saving them was always the LS choice... Even IF my Companion didn't like the choice It was STILL the LS choice.

 

As A Knight I Spared 2 sith and a fallen Jedi... ALL LS choices...

 

The Republic has asked me to kill, or do something nasty For the "Greater Good"... but 9 out of 10 times The Republics request is the DS choice, and I pretty much always take the LS choice.

 

I'm not saying that The Republic does not DO some shady things too... I just have No idea where You got the Idea that the Jedi council is evil and I can't EVER ONCE remember letting people die being the LS choice... IN FACT i KNOW that on some missions by choosing to save innocent lives I've made the mission harder on my self. Which always rewarded me with LS points... and often a nice companion affection reward as well....

 

EDIT:.... As a JEDI I have NEVER ONCE Left someone "suffering" while "I Hid Behind my ideals" and Between my two Jedi i only netted a grand total of 50 DS points... because One of them Took the yellow color crystal on tython early one.... other than that they have both always Done the LS choice and Both have ALWAYS helped the innocent even if it were at a personal cost or against the wishes of the "republic chain of command"

 

I think what I'm getting at, is I haven't noticed what your talking about and I would love an example..

Edited April 25, 2012 by Djspyder

[Rafaman]

Two of the four Imperial storylines have a slave rise up to become a hero based on his or her actions.

 

The Empire allows the strong to become whatever they wish. The Republic is full of noble titles and monarchies where a bloated senate makes decissions you have basically no say in. The Republic cloaks itself in words, preeches its noble and enlightened beliefs, and then works to undermine the peace and hides behind the veil of enlightenment to justify apathy toward the suffering of others.

 

Hmm.... not quite. The Empire by definition controls what the strong become. And, this doesn't include all the "strong" only the preferred strong. The fact that there is slavery says a great deal. The fact that the Empires corruption is quite open doesn't make it any less despicable. And the Empire thrives on the suffering of others.

 

The Republic has corruption in its midst and yes, there are those that use the platitudes to their advantage. However, that does not apply to all and while certainly some seek to undermine peace, the fundamental premise is one of choice. The strong and to some extent the weak have a choice on the the pub side. Whether they do right or wrong is another matter.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Rafaman

[Edoniltebaun]

What we're seeing here is actually a morality problem.

 

It's the morals of the individual, based on what is considered societal norms, that typically drive a persons decisions at any given time for any given instance. Those morals will be different for each faction as they perpetuate a different set of ideals. What the Republic views as immoral and wrong isn't seen that way by the Empire.

 

Where we as players run into a problem is that the game tries to bring that into an aspect of black and white where everything is really just shades of grey. We view each side, through the game, under our own moral judgement and measure by the standards we've set for ourselves. Thus, we encounter the ideas that the Republic and the Jedi are "good" and that the Empire and Sith are "bad". Not because either of those societies are particularly good or bad its more a matter of us asking ourselves if we could live in that sort of society.

 

Ultimately, I think, it isn't a matter of any individual or planet or even the faction that drives the conflict inside the game. It is, instead, driven by two relatively small groups of people, the Jedi and Sith. The Jedi adamantly adhere that the ways of the Dark Side are bad and that the Sith are all inherently evil and must be destroyed at all costs (which is a frequently underlying point in a lot of the Jedi story lines even if it is not directly stated). The Sith on the other hand are out for vengeance and blood because the Jedi just can't seem to leave them alone. So instead of waiting for the Jedi to amass a fleet and army, this time the Sith brought the fight to them directly and intend the same level of destruction that the Jedi have wrought on them several times.

 

Now, what would actually make sense is for all the non-force people in the galaxy to round up and drop all the force users off on a planet like Tatooine and remove any capability of leaving. It's not really impossible as there are maybe thousands of force users compared to the trillions of non-force peoples. Then surround the planet with warships and open fire to entirely destroy any living thing that's there. Then venture throughout the galaxy and destroy the contained knowledge of both of the force factions. This would probably end a war that's been going on for over 14,000 years, leaving just the regular people lingering around to make their way as best they can in a galaxy that now has a level playing field.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Edoniltebaun

[Eutoxis]

Well, I took the plunge and decided to try rolling a Jedi for my new character. Having gone through the four Imperial storylines, I was surprised to find that The Empire were really the good guys in this whole thing, and The Republic was a corrupt and evil regime cloaked in a pretty facade.

 

But that was from The Imperial standpoint. I figured being in a Republic storyline would show the shoe on the other foot. After all, you guys are supposed to be the good guys...

 

Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds...

 

Seriously, who are you people and why are you the good guys? I am SO GOING DARKSIDE whenever I get the chance!

 

Sadly true.

 

It's painful playing Republic characters.

 

Playing Empire, you are respected for your skills, bad and good guys alike quake before you, and you are thanked and rewarded when you succeed.

Playing Republic, you are derided at every turn, npcs of all stripes crap all over you, and your reward for success is snide sarcasm.

It amazes me that anyone plays Republic/LS willingly.

[FigeroMentel]

The Republic has corruption in its midst and yes, there are those that use the platitudes to their advantage. However, that does not apply to all and while certainly some seek to undermine peace, the fundamental premise is one of choice. The strong and to some extent the weak have a choice on the the pub side. Whether they do right or wrong is another matter.

 

So far, in my limited exposier to senate politics, I've seen a senator taking bribes from criminals, a senator who wanted to impose slavery, the forced relocation (see: deportation) of refugees and a political party trying to sabotage peace talks with The Empire...

 

And let's not even mention the fact that the poor struggle underground while the nobels squabble in their ridiculously overblown palace. Don't forget that those refugees are being forcefully deported on the grounds that The Republic can't support them... Said by a senator in flowing robes while in a massive palace with cathedral ceilings.

 

When corruption is out in the open, it's easy to see who to support and what you can do. When it's cloaked in a pretty facade, it's impossible to know who is fighting for you and who is fighting against you. At its best, it's grey and grey, at its worst The Empire is the good guy.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Sireene
Inappropriate Content

[FigeroMentel]

What we're seeing here is actually a morality problem.

 

It's the morals of the individual, based on what is considered societal norms, that typically drive a persons decisions at any given time for any given instance. Those morals will be different for each faction as they perpetuate a different set of ideals. What the Republic views as immoral and wrong isn't seen that way by the Empire.

 

Where we as players run into a problem is that the game tries to bring that into an aspect of black and white where everything is really just shades of grey. We view each side, through the game, under our own moral judgement and measure by the standards we've set for ourselves. Thus, we encounter the ideas that the Republic and the Jedi are "good" and that the Empire and Sith are "bad". Not because either of those societies are particularly good or bad its more a matter of us asking ourselves if we could live in that sort of society.

 

Ultimately, I think, it isn't a matter of any individual or planet or even the faction that drives the conflict inside the game. It is, instead, driven by two relatively small groups of people, the Jedi and Sith. The Jedi adamantly adhere that the ways of the Dark Side are bad and that the Sith are all inherently evil and must be destroyed at all costs (which is a frequently underlying point in a lot of the Jedi story lines even if it is not directly stated). The Sith on the other hand are out for vengeance and blood because the Jedi just can't seem to leave them alone. So instead of waiting for the Jedi to amass a fleet and army, this time the Sith brought the fight to them directly and intend the same level of destruction that the Jedi have wrought on them several times.

 

Now, what would actually make sense is for all the non-force people in the galaxy to round up and drop all the force users off on a planet like Tatooine and remove any capability of leaving. It's not really impossible as there are maybe thousands of force users compared to the trillions of non-force peoples. Then surround the planet with warships and open fire to entirely destroy any living thing that's there. Then venture throughout the galaxy and destroy the contained knowledge of both of the force factions. This would probably end a war that's been going on for over 14,000 years, leaving just the regular people lingering around to make their way as best they can in a galaxy that now has a level playing field.

 

This is actually what I see as this game's greatest strength - That niether side is the good guy or bad guy, and that whether we choose to be good or bad is up to us, not due to the faction we were born in. The Sith have legitimate reasons for wanting revenge on The Jedi, and The Jedi love to talk about how great their ideals are while those ideals lead to people's suffering. The Repiblic offers you a pretty lie, and The Empire, an ugly truth.

 

What actions we take ultimately decide whether we are good or evil, not which side we take, just as your opinion and mine are equally viable, but how we go about enforcing that opinion is how we should be judged.

 

And what you are discussing in the final paragraph is something that more citizens of the current series of SW books seem to believe - That all of their problems are caused by Jedi and Sith and it's time to just throw them all out.

[SerikFox]

Well, I took the plunge and decided to try rolling a Jedi for my new character. Having gone through the four Imperial storylines, I was surprised to find that The Empire were really the good guys in this whole thing, and The Republic was a corrupt and evil regime cloaked in a pretty facade.

 

But that was from The Imperial standpoint. I figured being in a Republic storyline would show the shoe on the other foot. After all, you guys are supposed to be the good guys...

 

Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds...

 

Seriously, who are you people and why are you the good guys? I am SO GOING DARKSIDE whenever I get the chance!

 

I want to know when letting an enemy in a war who just tried to kill you and promises revenge - or killed someone else, or killed a bunch of others, or caused the deaths of a bunch of others, or is a genocidal maniac, - live became the "light choice" and killing them became a "no-no".

 

Partial list of examples:

Rodian on Ord Mantel.

Commander on Taris in the trooper storyline.

Woman who kills the guy who's helping you in the smuggler line on Ord Mantel.

Scientist on Nar Shaddaa.

Fallen jedi on Nar Shaddaa who has been torturing and killing people for fun.

Admiral or general or whatever he is on Quesh.

Almost any sith lord (minus Praven - he was kinda brainwashed it seemed).

Skavak.

Anyone involved with Rogun the Butcher.

Rogun the Butcher.

Various random hutts.

Genocidal maniac on Nar Shaddaa.

What's his name's old padawan on Tython.

Any defector of Havok Squad.

Traitor on Quesh who murdered his own men.

Various traitors.

Various imp commanders.

Various homicidal maniacs (ever wonder how many people would have been saved if Batman had just dropped Joker off a building to start with?)

[Sireene]

Hey everybody!

 

We've recently had to remove and edit some posts in here due to discussion of moderation as well as real-life political references. Please note that both topics are inappropriate for the forums. Politics is a volatile topic that can quickly get heated due to differences in opinion, and as for discussion of moderation, we ask that you please email communitysupport@swtor.com rather than creating a post or thread on the forums. Doing so will allow us to address any questions or concerns you may have as well as giving you the opportunity to dispute any warnings or infractions on your account.

 

Thanks!

[Djspyder]

So far, in my limited exposier to senate politics, I've seen a senator taking bribes from criminals, a senator who wanted to impose slavery, the forced relocation (see: deportation) of refugees and a political party trying to sabotage peace talks with The Empire...

 

And let's not even mention the fact that the poor struggle underground while the nobels squabble in their ridiculously overblown palace. Don't forget that those refugees are being forcefully deported on the grounds that The Republic can't support them... Said by a senator in flowing robes while in a massive palace with cathedral ceilings.

 

When corruption is out in the open, it's easy to see who to support and what you can do. When it's cloaked in a pretty facade, it's impossible to know who is fighting for you and who is fighting against you. At its best, it's grey and grey, at its worst The Empire is the good guy.

 

 

ALL True.... There IS Corruption in the republic... But You're given the Choice to expose it Or to cover it up, to stop it or to help it along...

 

Which Is why I say, the republic is not the Perfect protector of the people it claims to be... Which is Why it ultimately Falls.

 

I just disagree what the Jedi Council itself is evil.... Their faith in the republic may be misguided, and they may at times be blind to the truth... but I don't see them as evil.... But the Republic, yeah there is some evil behind the scenes there.

[Lugh]

Actually... I've found that most of the Time, When it comes to sacrificing "innocents" its a DS option... like, I can take the easy route and WIn... but innocents will die... OR i can take the Hard way and Save lives.

 

I Know SOMETIMES the LS side seems like the Wrong Side For the Greater Good... But Walking the path of the Light side is about Doing the right thing ALL THE TIME... Not just when it suites your goals.

 

I WILL agree that sometimes the Republic Asks a Jedi to Do the Wrong thing For the Right reasons... But again, Walking the light side of the force is always doing the "RIGHT" thing... NOT the "Practical Thing"....

 

Anyway Saying the Jedi council is "Evil" is a serious stretch... Misguided possibly, Closed minded could be... But "Evil"... no way.... the Republic may be a different story....

 

 

And saying the "Empire is Good" is also just wrong... Thats Like saying any Genocidal Dictator is good... Because You know... he kills his enemies brutally and he hates everyone who disagrees with his ideological... BUT he keeps order and safety for everyone who follows him... ya know as long as they don't ever have a thought that opposes him...Then they die a terrible death.

 

In the JC story, the option to save a single person is a LS option, doing anything for the Greater good is dark side. First example I remember is the lady in the Fire on Taris, she can die and you can save MILLIONS with the data you recover, or she can live and you can lose the data, never mind that the holocron is an easy light weight and she couldn't weigh more than a buck 30...I should be able to levitate both but NOOOOOOO

 

The imperial Dogma is striving for ORDER in the Galaxy.

 

The SITH are evil as evil gets. The IMPERIALS are not always so.

[Djspyder]

In the JC story, the option to save a single person is a LS option, doing anything for the Greater good is dark side. First example I remember is the lady in the Fire on Taris, she can die and you can save MILLIONS with the data you recover, or she can live and you can lose the data, never mind that the holocron is an easy light weight and she couldn't weigh more than a buck 30...I should be able to levitate both but NOOOOOOO

 

The imperial Dogma is striving for ORDER in the Galaxy.

 

The SITH are evil as evil gets. The IMPERIALS are not always so.

 

 

Those where Jedi Holocrons and for all we know could have nothing More then some history of the Jedi on Taris... There is NO WAY to know if that information would save life or if would just be something nice to have... Where as watching a woman burn to death on the off chance this information MAY be more valuable then her life, seems pretty DS to me.

 

 

Anyway I See the Point here... Sometimes the Jedi follow the code blindly, sometimes they Serve the Republic a little "TOO WELL" and not always for the right reason, and not always for whats best for everyone... But again, Being Wrong and Being "evil" are different... The Republic Absolutely has its share of corruption and its share of out right "Bad" going on there, Which I'm sure is what leads to its inevitable downfall, but I'm not sure I would call them the "Bad Guys".... The Empire Is IN NO WAY GOOD... not in theory, Not compared to the Jedi, NOT compared to anything... They may Not ALL be "Evil"... but I Can't see any way in which someone could view them as "Good"

 

And as a player, You can just make what YOU think is the morally Correct decision... I think If you wanted to Play a True "Hero" which i would assume is the intention of any one going Full LS, You would NEVER allow 1 innocent person to die, Just to accomplish You're goals... Now If you had the certain choice Of 1 life Vs 1000 and that Was The ONLY way it could play out... yeah You would probably save the 1000 at the cost of the 1... But Thats a rare occurrence one I can't remember having the choice to make in either Jedi story. lvl 39 JC Almost finished with chapter 2, ..Lvl 50 Jedi Knight Story completed.

[Kailaurius]

Well, I took the plunge and decided to try rolling a Jedi for my new character. Having gone through the four Imperial storylines, I was surprised to find that The Empire were really the good guys in this whole thing, and The Republic was a corrupt and evil regime cloaked in a pretty facade.

 

But that was from The Imperial standpoint. I figured being in a Republic storyline would show the shoe on the other foot. After all, you guys are supposed to be the good guys...

 

Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds...

 

Seriously, who are you people and why are you the good guys? I am SO GOING DARKSIDE whenever I get the chance!

 

Yeah, I agree. And I've also noticed that it seems to me the Jedi are slaves to the Republic and their Jedi order and the Sith are the ones who get to experience true freedom.

[FigeroMentel]

Yeah, I agree. And I've also noticed that it seems to me the Jedi are slaves to the Republic and their Jedi order and the Sith are the ones who get to experience true freedom.

 

Being a Sith is all about freedom. You do as you please, and rise and fall on your own merits. Hard work and sacrifice are rewarded, lazyness and arrogance punished.

 

Whereas Jedi are to do as instructed, and never step outside of the carefully crafted guidlines set out for them.

[cwclary]

Being a Sith is all about freedom. You do as you please, and rise and fall on your own merits. Hard work and sacrifice are rewarded, lazyness and arrogance punished.

 

Whereas Jedi are to do as instructed, and never step outside of the carefully crafted guidlines set out for them.

 

Having played the most maniacal, condescending Dark Side Jedi Knight that ever lived (to level 30), I can honestly say that the council lets its followers step out of line, and definitely out of creed, on many occasions. Sure, we might get a lecture on how terrible we are, but nowhere are we relieved of our mission of service to the council.

 

Yes, we might lose many brownie points with our companions, but their affection can be bought with measly trinkets and baubles.

 

In the end, we Jedi don't need moral justification. We are the arm of the Republic (unlike Havoc Squad, who lose loyalty like it's an export) and should only be seen as thus.

 

Also, look at the names of our freakin' advanced classes. With titles like Guardian, Sentinel, and Shadow, you just know you'll be hauled off to some dirt barge to deal with minor crooks like some overbearing mother to her petty, gun-toting kids.

[Nydus]

In the Empire story lines the Jedi do draw sabers first, but that only reflects the misguided attempts by the writers to make the Empire less evil and is not consistent with the rest of the stories that are out there.

 

Yes, that is very inconsistent with the universe: It isn't like Mace Windu drew his lightsaber first against Palpatine .

 

- Arcada

[Djspyder]

Here is the Thing...... Which IMO sums it up pretty much perfectly....

 

AND YES BIG SPOILERS ON The WAY....

 

 

In The JK story, You Hunt down the Emperor who has his sith going from planet to planet attempting to commit planet wide genocide so he can complete a ritual to gain his own ultimate power.... That is THE MOST EVIL THING EVER... And His Sith Lords and Extreme loyalist Imperial soldiers, Know of this plan, are aware they are going to die along with all these people, and STILL willingly do it.

 

 

With that in Mind Pretty much no matter how Wrong the Republic may be, or how misguided the Jedi may be... The Empire is clearly the Evil one... I mean I See all the things wrong with the Republic... But i Believe the Idea here is... The Republic stands for good, Is meant For good, Has a lot of good in it, But it fails to be What it should be... which is why eventually it falls to its own fear and bad decision making.... Where as the Sith empire, has been and always will be a Selfishly Evil organization, no matter how many "Noble" characters or "honorable" characters you my encounter in its ranks... they are the few, The majority of the empire is Bad..

 

So again to sum up... while The republic has its share of serious issues.... I wouldn't call the empire the Good guys... No matter how much any Imperial characters story.... may try to make you feel like you're not just pure evil... when you look at the empires goal, they just can't be defined as "the good guys" in this conflict..

[Krystalanne]

and this matters because....?

 

its a video game who cares

[FigeroMentel]

and this matters because....?

 

its a video game who cares

 

Why are you even here, then? We're having fun talking about philosophy and economics, not complaining about a fictional universe.

[Likewater]

Well, I took the plunge and decided to try rolling a Jedi for my new character. Having gone through the four Imperial storylines, I was surprised to find that The Empire were really the good guys in this whole thing, and The Republic was a corrupt and evil regime cloaked in a pretty facade.

 

But that was from The Imperial standpoint. I figured being in a Republic storyline would show the shoe on the other foot. After all, you guys are supposed to be the good guys...

 

Almost every single decission I've made so far has been dark side, simply because it is the only sensible option most of the time. What kind of evil, souless monsters work for the jedi council? If someone is suffering, I'm supposed to let them suffer and not interfear. If someone is causing suffering, I'm supposed to welcome him with open arms and not fight him. If someone is being attacked, I'm supposed to stand there, hold hands with them and sing Kumbaya as they get ripped to shreds...

 

Seriously, who are you people and why are you the good guys? I am SO GOING DARKSIDE whenever I get the chance!

 

So poisoning slaves is what? good? are you kidding me?

 

As a Jedi I have actually routed out corruption, Stopped imperial war crimes against Evocci on narshadaa, brought allies together, and destroyed superweapons... all while you what? Murder slaves and backstab eachother ot of convienece?

 

Cause I have an Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter, and a Imperial Agent and I dont know what the hell you are posting about?

 

Because the republic isnt the united fedeation of planets, we dont have a prime directive. On tython alone both consular and both Knights strengthed the relationship between the Pilgrims and the Jedi.

 

yes some lights side decisions are based on lawful stupid good, just like some darkside decisions are based on stupid evil. Like making a flesh eating monster more powerful so it can tear @#$ around the freaking sith acadamy.

[Likewater]

There is one big difference between the Republic's darker side and the Empire's: The Republic hides it. In hiding it, they fail to have a proper check and balance, which tends to magnify it. The way the Empire's moral system is set up, the atrocities are out in the open, allowing individuals or groups to put a stop to them before they become anywhere near as bad as the Republic's. Of course, the Empire's system encourages evil, so people stopping it is less likely than if the Republic had a similar system.

 

That's my view, at least.

 

One side embraces slavery, the other side does not.

 

One side embraces genocide against the evocci, the otherside works against it.

 

One side killes helpless begging people, posions slaves, and inspires people to murder each other on a whim.

 

the other side does not.

 

Work against corruption? you can kill slave quickly or poison them slowly. you can reward escaped slaves for murdering eachother in rituals or convice them to stop. Help a slave dominate people suffering from darkside madness...and convice on over seer to send more in, or to use them elswhere.

 

notic something? there is a lack of ahhhh what it called? freedom? emancipation? justice?

[Hoojoo]

Spoken like a true sith. The force is more than raw power, unfortunately the sith will never quite understand it. It's something you either understand, or don't. Those who don't, fall to the dark side. The consular is about sacrifice, the consular understands that the full power of the force comes through sacrificing oneself. Something a sith could never do, nor comprehend.

 

I laughed.... but not with you, at you.

[dronepilot]

The Jedi seem to be about self sacrifice, and helping others. I don't really see how any Jedi would allow suffering on another being, this doesn't seem to be the 'Jedi way' so what the original poster said, on that count, isn't the truth, more like the 'truth' twisted to a sith perspective.

 

To end the suffering of some thing, the sith sooner take the quick path to resolving this, while the Jedi find more alternative, peaceful and diplomatic ways. That failing, they of course have a more aggressive arm of the order, in the form of Jedi Knights to enforce peace, if called for. The entire perspective of good and evil, depends on your philosophical, points of view on things.

 

You take a guy who is in pain, he could use some healing right, ?! - Sith method - kill the guy, because he is 'weak' pathetic creature, and no use to the empire or their Dark Lord. Jedi way, heals the wounded guy, and he goes on to live another day, and continues to be useful to some one in the world.

 

Yeah.. where is the boundaries of good and evil exactly ?! - if you can't see the difference with the above, then enjoy playing sith !

[DeutschGamer]

Two of the four Imperial storylines have a slave rise up to become a hero based on his or her actions.

 

The Empire allows the strong to become whatever they wish. The Republic is full of noble titles and monarchies where a bloated senate makes decissions you have basically no say in. The Republic cloaks itself in words, preeches its noble and enlightened beliefs, and then works to undermine the peace and hides behind the veil of enlightenment to justify apathy toward the suffering of others.

 

Only the inquisitor was a slave, and he most certainly did not become a hero in any sense. He joined the Dark Council propagating the current government as it is run keeping the status quo.

 

And he was not ALLOWED, he had to fight for every opportunity with his own strength. The Empire was desperate for more Sith in their ranks and that is why the slave was given an opportunity, although he was not likely to succeed.

 

The Empire oppresses the weak to allow the strong to thrive in the status quo and those that could become strong must do everything for themselves as they will receive no support from a government already content.

 

For all the harm you claim the Republic is, it does a lot more good for the galaxy than the Empire ever did.

[FigeroMentel]

Only the inquisitor was a slave, and he most certainly did not become a hero in any sense. He joined the Dark Council propagating the current government as it is run keeping the status quo.

 

And he was not ALLOWED, he had to fight for every opportunity with his own strength. The Empire was desperate for more Sith in their ranks and that is why the slave was given an opportunity, although he was not likely to succeed.

 

The Empire oppresses the weak to allow the strong to thrive in the status quo and those that could become strong must do everything for themselves as they will receive no support from a government already content.

 

For all the harm you claim the Republic is, it does a lot more good for the galaxy than the Empire ever did.

 

Of course she had to fight for every opportunity - Just like anyone needs to in real life. That's not oppression, that's life.

 

The fact that a slave could rise to a seat on the Sith Council is a pretty strong case for The Sith rewarding excellence in all its forms. The Sith may keep slaves, but they allow those slaves the chance to be citizens. The Jedi on the other hand, just turn a blind eye to slavery and allow it to happen while publicly decrying it.

 

The big difference as I see it is that The Sith understand that there is good and evil, and they decide whether or not to follow either path, or a hybrid thereof. The Jedi also claim to understand good and evil... Only their understanding is that they're good, reguardless of the consequences, and their opponents are evil.

 

I think my big problem with The Jedi is that they pat themselves on the back for their ideals, even as those ideals lead to suffering. They hide behind their ideals reguardless of who gets hurt, whereas a Sith has the power to do as he or she chooses.

[MMornard]

To quote Obi-Wan Kenobi from a line that ended up on the cutting room floor in 1977...

 

"You understand the true nature of the Force as little as a spoon understands the taste of food."