Sentinel/Marauder overpowered since 1.2

[ShiningKnights]

I know I'm going to get a lot of people saying "Learn to play" or "Sentinels weren't buffed that much" (from the Sentinel players obviously). But let me make my case.

 

I'm a pretty darn good PvPer. Usually the highest on DPS and medals on my server (Wall of Light). Pre 1.2, there were sentinels out there who couldn't even fight their way out of a paper bag. Now they're destroying other classes who have 30-50% more expertise than them.

 

At first I thought I was just imagining things-that it was all in my head, and that I need to L2Play or I was doing something wrong. So I dueled one of my friend's alts who is still in columni/BM gear and he hasn't pvp'd since February. My commando is in full BM gear + 1 piece of War Hero. Out of 5 duels, I lost 4 and barely won one.

 

To me, a good pvper should be judged on their skill and not their class. When Bioware takes a class and makes it so that even a newbie pvper can take down a veteran PvPer I think something is wrong. Did my commando's grav rounds need to be nerfed? Yes. Did sages need to be nerfed? Yes. Did Scoundrels burst DPS need to be nerfed? Yes. If they did those things, things would more or less be balanced. But why buff sentinels this much??

At this point, I'm considering not pvping anymore till they fix sentinels. I have never felt this way about anything/any class since launch till now.

 

Ok, let the trolling, hate-mongering, and insults begin.

[Mikesglory]

Well commandos were ridiculously OP pre1.2 so to start with you're seeing the combination of YOUR NERF and the sentinel buff at the same time so it appears to you to be an even bigger buff than it is.

Also to note commandos are currently broken (your HSM mirror is doing up to 1k less damage than it is meant to be, which is an enormous difference that will make it seem even more broken to you)

 

There is also the "melee effect" to be taken into account here, namely if you die to a melee they are up in your face smashing you to the ground and you instantly pick up, OUCH THAT BUGGER HIT ME. Whereas in the case of a ranged often you either a) do not notice what class it is and just go meh dead to range, b) not have it so much in your face again just leaving you thinking meh.

 

But that said sure marauders/sentinels and shadows/assassins are currently the 2 most powerful classes but hey, one class has to be more powerful than others (duh) and tbqh there are plenty of counters out there for both of them.

 

And before you say "OMG YOU MUST BE A SIN OR MARAUDER SAYING THEY ARENT CRAZY OP!!" I play vanguard and inquisitor.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Mikesglory

[KaptainPlanet]

I know I'm going to get a lot of people saying "Learn to play" or "Sentinels weren't buffed that much" (from the Sentinel players obviously). But let me make my case.

 

I'm a pretty darn good PvPer. Usually the highest on DPS and medals on my server (Wall of Light). Pre 1.2, there were sentinels out there who couldn't even fight their way out of a paper bag. Now they're destroying other classes who have 30-50% more expertise than them.

 

At first I thought I was just imagining things-that it was all in my head, and that I need to L2Play or I was doing something wrong. So I dueled one of my friend's alts who is still in columni/BM gear and he hasn't pvp'd since February. My commando is in full BM gear + 1 piece of War Hero. Out of 5 duels, I lost 4 and barely won one.

 

To me, a good pvper should be judged on their skill and not their class. When Bioware takes a class and makes it so that even a newbie pvper can take down a veteran PvPer I think something is wrong. Did my commando's grav rounds need to be nerfed? Yes. Did sages need to be nerfed? Yes. Did Scoundrels burst DPS need to be nerfed? Yes. If they did those things, things would more or less be balanced. But why buff sentinels this much??

At this point, I'm considering not pvping anymore till they fix sentinels. I have never felt this way about anything/any class since launch till now.

 

Ok, let the trolling, hate-mongering, and insults begin.

 

FIRST:

 

Sent's are not OP here is what happened to our trees

 

Watchman = Got a nerf

 

Focus = Decent damage increase

 

Now if I want to be a glass cannon i'll go for the op dps in FOCUS spec. But i like to survive longer fights and help the group out putting out awesome dot dps that hasn't changed from the previous patch.

 

Now here is a match score board from this morning It's only 700k dps bro.

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/2r53ic2.jpg

 

LoL naw but that was an odd match full of heals usually i score 200k-250k but still I'm watchman and didnt get buffed what so ever. I still roll nubs.

 

I look at it this way. Are we a good class yes! are we overpowered only if played by elite players using the right spec.

 

If your focus and have a pocket healer god knows the dps you can put out. It must be insane but you wont survive without a healer you'll be toast

 

Also show me whats op about my naked pvp video here

 

 

Pre 1.2

Edited April 23, 2012 by KaptainPlanet

[TomC]

Are you CCing/avoiding them while they have their goofy bubble up? If not ur bad. Most of the time if you screw with their 99% bubble they cry then explode.

[ShiningKnights]

Yes. But that's not the point. What I'm trying to say is that really bad Sentinel players are doing ridiculous amount of damage not based on skill, but by their class being buffed.

 

By the way, just an update; my friend who I was referring to in my first post-he just got 2 more pieces of Battlemaster, and is breaking 800K damage on a regular basis in WZ's. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's not normal. He's a good player, but he's not a PvPer.

[TomC]

Does he have a healer? Has anyone tried killing said healer?

[ShiningKnights]

Sure he might have a healer. I have a healer too sometimes. If what you're referring to is a pocket healer, then no, he does not. (I'm trying to not analyze this too much from a micro level, but from a macro level.)

 

What I'm saying is that all things being equal (same expertise, same skill lvl, abilities off CD), a sentinel/marauder should not be able to be doing this much damage, especially not in the hands of a novice player.

[KaptainPlanet]

Sure he might have a healer. I have a healer too sometimes. If what you're referring to is a pocket healer, then no, he does not. (I'm trying to not analyze this too much from a micro level, but from a macro level.)

 

What I'm saying is that all things being equal (same expertise, same skill lvl, abilities off CD), a sentinel/marauder should not be able to be doing this much damage, especially not in the hands of a novice player.

 

Well i'm not a novice player. Known on my server for being the only "Pro" sentinel. Sentinels i've seen suck at the class and don't know how to manage all the unique skills they have.

[ShiningKnights]

Well i'm not a novice player. Known on my server for being the only "Pro" sentinel. Sentinels i've seen suck at the class and don't know how to manage all the unique skills they have.

 

All I can say to that is...good for you!

 

I don't presume to know how good you are or how bad the other sentinels on your server are, but all the terribad ones from mine just became really good after 1.2.

[KaptainPlanet]

All I can say to that is...good for you!

 

I don't presume to know how good you are or how bad the other sentinels on your server are, but all the terribad ones from mine just became really good after 1.2.

 

Might i ask what spec are they?

 

IF they are dpsing using Force sweep then yes it will be the force tree buff.

 

But if they are watchman with merciless slash then they didnt get buffed they just improved

[EzoEo]

The only buffs Knights got was to Master Strike and all the rest is down to expertise changes in PvP.

 

Sentinel abilities did not recieve any buffs in 1.2 but the Guild Summit stated there would be some under the hood changes which I guess is why we are seeing now.

[Alacranmex]

Your evidence you bring is the fact that you lose duels to a Sentinel. Guess what? Sentinels are the Rock to your Commando scissors and it's been their counter-class since I started playing this game in January.

 

If anything, you got buffed against Watchman since now you aren't as screwed after a grav round lockout. L2P.

[ShiningKnights]

Might i ask what spec are they?

 

IF they are dpsing using Force sweep then yes it will be the force tree buff.

 

But if they are watchman with merciless slash then they didnt get buffed they just improved

 

I'm not sure but I think it's Watchman since I see a lot of fire debuffs when I fight them. Like I said I don't know enough about Jedi Knights to know exactly why they're doing crazy damage, but just that they are.

 

What's the difference between buffed and improved? If you're class is improved, I would consider that a buff, yes?

[KaptainPlanet]

I'm not sure but I think it's Watchman since I see a lot of fire debuffs when I fight them. Like I said I don't know enough about Jedi Knights to know exactly why they're doing crazy damage, but just that they are.

 

What's the difference between buffed and improved? If you're class is improved, I would consider that a buff, yes?

 

when i said "Improved" i meant they gained skill. We actually got a nerf in our watchman tree and lost 100% damage decrease when going into stealth. other then that no much has changed

[-Yui-]

Yes. But that's not the point. What I'm trying to say is that really bad Sentinel players are doing ridiculous amount of damage not based on skill, but by their class being buffed.

 

By the way, just an update; my friend who I was referring to in my first post-he just got 2 more pieces of Battlemaster, and is breaking 800K damage on a regular basis in WZ's. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that's not normal. He's a good player, but he's not a PvPer.

 

If the Sent you're referring to is breaking 800k on a regular basis, then:

 

a) Your server is way overloaded with heals, most people are way under-geared, and no one understands how to use taunt

 

b) if that sent didn't break 800k before 1.2, he won't be doing that after. For all the cries of OP, we're 90% the same as the laughing stock that was us a month or so after release.

 

c) you're lying

 

And really, he can do so because of the buffs we got? Let me do some math for you. Considering this Sentinel's high damage output, I'll go ahead and say that the Sent is Watchman specced. I've seen Focus Sents start popping up more often after 1.2, but I've yet to see one consistently beat Watchman specced Sents, and for all the buffs Combat received, it's still a poor tree to go into.

 

Of the buffs Sentinels received, the only one benefiting Watchman was the universal 15% Masterstrike increase. Now, running a simple 5 minute parse on a dummy, Masterstrike applies to 12% of our damage. Therefore net increase in DPS will result to 1.8%.You can argue for the 30% dispatch, but that hardly increases final damage at all. Perhaps we can get 3 or 4 more dispatches off more than before.

 

Oh, and did I mention the spec 90% of Sentinels still use (Watchman) got nerfed in both utility and survival?

 

Saying that you don't know why, but even bad Sentinels are doing good damage after 1.2 doesn't make sense. It's certainly not happening on my server, and neither do the patch notes of 1.2 support that. Or are you a conspiracy theorist and think BW stealth-buffed Sentinels?

[bliapis]

they buffed our slam by 20% which is nice albeit the damage is nowhere "dangerous" for an opponent. \

 

The Master strike stun is nice and the damage boost is good.

 

The new camo is crappy imo. 100% immunity was godlike. i die alot more often now as im used to push dps to the very last second. but not with the 50% less damage reduction from camo, its very dangerous to do so and usually result death,.,.,

 

We didnt get op. we always were op. its that commando got toned down.

[Smuglebunny]

A sentinel comes up to you and dps's you down. You think "wow sents are OP".

 

You PLAY a sentinel and realize that there is alot of skill involved, you die ALOT and that the ONLY thing sents can do is DPS.

 

We have no displacement. We have very limited stuns and interupts. And we wear medium armor.

 

In exchange for that we have great defensive cooldowns and high dps. Seems pretty balanced to me.

 

We are certainly not better than Consulars/Inquisitors. I get wrecked by those guys all the time.

 

Your best bet against a sent or mara is to stun and run and kite, knockback etc.. Its not always gonna work but if you let us stay on you up close your dead.

 

Sent /Mara is balanced.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Smuglebunny

[Bishidoblade]

I know I'm going to get a lot of people saying "Learn to play" or "Sentinels weren't buffed that much" (from the Sentinel players obviously). But let me make my case.

 

I'm a pretty darn good PvPer. Usually the highest on DPS and medals on my server (Wall of Light). Pre 1.2, there were sentinels out there who couldn't even fight their way out of a paper bag. Now they're destroying other classes who have 30-50% more expertise than them.

 

At first I thought I was just imagining things-that it was all in my head, and that I need to L2Play or I was doing something wrong. So I dueled one of my friend's alts who is still in columni/BM gear and he hasn't pvp'd since February. My commando is in full BM gear + 1 piece of War Hero. Out of 5 duels, I lost 4 and barely won one.

 

To me, a good pvper should be judged on their skill and not their class. When Bioware takes a class and makes it so that even a newbie pvper can take down a veteran PvPer I think something is wrong. Did my commando's grav rounds need to be nerfed? Yes. Did sages need to be nerfed? Yes. Did Scoundrels burst DPS need to be nerfed? Yes. If they did those things, things would more or less be balanced. But why buff sentinels this much??

At this point, I'm considering not pvping anymore till they fix sentinels. I have never felt this way about anything/any class since launch till now.

 

Ok, let the trolling, hate-mongering, and insults begin.

 

First the game is not balanced around 1 v 1 combat. The fact you think that since he can beat you in a dual 1v1 and that's the reason you think they are to strong makes me question if your really all that good to begin with. Most people who understand pvp realize its not balanced 1v1. Sent/Mara have better short CD defensive abilitys then most tanks. I'm not go into a breakdown of why a sent will beat you 9/10 times because its so obvious that if you cant see it I don't know what to tell you. Also being a good PVP'r as you say you are... involves knowing other classes ability's and what to expect from them. You obviously don't have a grasp on this aspect of pvp, which is almost as important as your individual ability's (skill), since sometimes in PVP you need to be reactive, and sometimes you need to be preventative. Knowing what to expect from every class, and there typical rotation/openers/closers/defensives/DPS abilitys is all part of it.

 

That being said, again if you don't understand pvp isn't balanced for 1v1 duels then all i can say is study up. Most of us whom are really into PVP know other classes abilitys and what to expect, and counter/survive against said ability's. Sent happens. to be almost unbeatable 1v1 in the right hands, even more so now with a higher execute range and other tweaks they made.

[Dawginole]

Sure he might have a healer. I have a healer too sometimes. If what you're referring to is a pocket healer, then no, he does not. (I'm trying to not analyze this too much from a micro level, but from a macro level.)

 

What I'm saying is that all things being equal (same expertise, same skill lvl, abilities off CD), a sentinel/marauder should not be able to be doing this much damage, especially not in the hands of a novice player.

 

I really don't know what your talking about because Mercenaries have taken over the score board on my server. 300-400k per match regular. I never saw that pre-1.2.

 

I do a bit more damage as combat spec. I shine if I get a healer. But nothing outrageous. 200k + games seem to be average score for most sents no matter what the spec is. Depending on healing and gear it goes up and down from there. Doesn't seem like over kill to me.

[Sleeptastic]

All pvp damage got buffed. All pvp healing and mitigation got nerfed. This is not a sentinel issue, it's an expertise issue.

[Savej]

I've got two bms (both close to war hero). On my server I can count on one hand the number of times i have seen anyone get anywhere near 800k damage and it hasn't been a mara or sent. Bounty hunters are still topping damage even vs teams full of knights.

[themorph]

Sents are fine - we only have DPS specs, so we should be somewhat rocking the stats. As others stated before, a lot of other classes are usually on par or beating sentinels damage output whise.

 

First of all as a Republic player you should be more worried about Marauder's beeing OP rather than Sentinels - we are only helping you winning you matches - and the war!

 

2nd of all - damage is really secondary in WZ's. As a Sentinel your are a healer killer - Your mission is to charge, choke, kick, awe the sh@t out of every healer and apply your healing debuff.

 

I much rather have BW balancing the game for WZ's, than duels. If i get to a commando in a WZ, he should be dead, however your tanks should lock me down to make sure i am not even getting there in the first place.

[AethiusSake]

OP does have a point.. but I wouldnt go so far to say its overpowered and that skilless players can over outdamage everyone.

 

Im pretty new to SWTOR, been on for about 3 or 4 days playtime, im only lvl 30. However, I took the time to research and learn how to play my sentinel because i love the class. Its very meticulate and requires vast attention and timing and watching ticks timers and distance / cool downs etc.

 

Im an experienced PVP player on other MMOs and other games, I know objectives and I know mechanics. When you utilize a sentinel fully to its full capabilitys, it is quite deadly. But that is how the class is designed. at least for Watchman IMO. Theres no reason why a skilled sentinel SHOULDNT top the damage charts..

 

The players you see doing vast damage, and you dont think they deserve to, have you personally reviewed how they play? and how are we to believe you judging them is 100% accurate to global standards?

 

Personally, I dont think its OP or over buffed, I actually think it got nerfed, but for the better. Learn to counter it, so far it seems to be theres a decent balance .

 

just my 2 cents, take it or leave it

[Hizoka]

the real issue is people put too mnuch into the damage done. You can have 5 million damage done it means NOTHING if you still lose. Not to mention if you did that much damage and it was healed though it means nothing.

 

 

 

Sorry but a commando DPS is the EASIEST thing in the game to play... hell i could put my kitten on my keyboard and she would do fine, a sentinel is the hardest thing to play. I'm sorry but you have something wrong with you if you think the simplest class should be equal to the hardest class.

 

Not to mention if sentinels were actually so OP as the OP states why is it there are only a small handful of good ones out there? If someone beats you on a sentinel, they would of beaten you on every other class in the game simply because they are better then you.

[Bishidoblade]

the real issue is people put too mnuch into the damage done. You can have 5 million damage done it means NOTHING if you still lose. Not to mention if you did that much damage and it was healed though it means nothing.

 

 

 

Sorry but a commando DPS is the EASIEST thing in the game to play... hell i could put my kitten on my keyboard and she would do fine, a sentinel is the hardest thing to play. I'm sorry but you have something wrong with you if you think the simplest class should be equal to the hardest class.

 

Not to mention if sentinels were actually so OP as the OP states why is it there are only a small handful of good ones out there? If someone beats you on a sentinel, they would of beaten you on every other class in the game simply because they are better then you.

 

Somewhat correct. There is a huge gap between a Sent/mara that has mastered the class, and one that is being played by someone for FOTM or is just not as skilled at the game. The decent Sent/Maras will still put out pretty decent numbers, but that is also attributed to the fact they don't finish their target off efficiently, and stand there smashing there face into the Keyboard endlessly.

 

The top notch sents will lock you down in every aspect, take little to no damage because they also know which ability's to use from a defensive/ standpoint and when to use them. They have great situational awareness and just don't roll face on keyboard, they see the whole field. Most of the time they will get away without even dieing when it gets close. A good Sent/Mara can 2v1 you and your buddy if you take them for granted and walk away with half health.

 

The point is there is such a wide gap between a "awesome" sent/mara compared to a good/decent sent mara, and its a huge gap. You will still go out and WRECK 90% of sent/mara out there because they are FOTM and there are so many of them now that the only ones causing the QQ on the boards are the ones that have mastered the class through and through and are basically unstoppable 90% of the time.

 

People do put to much into raw numbers i agree. There is alot more going on in a WZ then just buffing your numbers. If you play to win you know its not about topping the damage and healing and rather about doing what needs to be done for the team to win.

 

 

Least that's my opinion ;P - OP no, extremely powerful once mastered yes.