Commando/Merc still no interupt?

[Paydroid]

I don't want to argue this class has this, that class has that because really its not about that. Class uniqueness is a good thing but removing the only interrupt before properly balancing the class it not the right way to go about it.

That's EXACTLY what it's about. Class uniqueness is indeed a good thing, and an interrupt ability is not at all equivalent to your laughable example of jumping. Lacking an interrupt does not make the class "broken," anymore than Knights/Warriors lacking a stun (OR a CC!) or Scoundrels/Ops lacking a knockback "breaks" them.

 

If anything the point here is how Sorcs/Sages have too much utility (heal, CC, stun, AoE knockback, interrupt), rather than Commandos/Mercs having too little.

 

I don't often begrudge people their complaints, but seriously, this is QQing.

[kuey]

That's EXACTLY what it's about. Class uniqueness is indeed a good thing, and an interrupt ability is not at all equivalent to your laughable example of jumping. Lacking an interrupt does not make the class "broken," anymore than Knights/Warriors lacking a stun (OR a CC!) or Scoundrels/Ops lacking a knockback "breaks" them.

 

If anything the point here is how Sorcs/Sages have too much utility (heal, CC, stun, AoE knockback, interrupt), rather than Commandos/Mercs having too little.

 

I don't often begrudge people their complaints, but seriously, this is QQing.

 

You forgot Sprint and Rescue on Sages as well. Though they have negatives which may or may not excuse their utility depending on your bias. Also surprised you chose Sorcs/Sages as your example and not Tank Sins/Shadows lol.

 

But back on topic, I can't really see how an interrupt would make Commandos/Mercs OP. Is there anyone out ther who's FOR the argument that incorporating an interrupt in Comms/Mercs would make them OP? If so it would be interesting to see your opinion. It's all well to scream "unique unique unique" but BW stated that they didn't incorporate one because it would make them OP (in different words ofc) in PvP. Just wondering what kind of angle they had on that.

[sharkfinsix]

If the Dev's said that, it's further evidence they don't play their own game.

 

I was levelling my Bounty Hunter - who only has one interrupt, which has a cooldown of about a minute - and was facing an Elite that could heal itself.

 

The damned thing was spamming heals on itself and I couldn't DPS it down fast enough before it healed back up. Ended up having to just wipe and then fight it again, luckily where the mob did more attacks than self-heals this time so I could kill it in time.

 

Electrodart --- Jet boost -- Rocket Punch (with talents to cause knock back)

 

not perfect but worked for me to get thru all content 1-49..

 

also Mako at higher levels stuns some regualrly

Edited April 25, 2012 by sharkfinsix

[Tellahtron]

Im guessing the reason Bioware has said no to giving Commando/Merc an interrupt is because the class is designed to be played at 30m+ from the target. So asking Bioware for an interrupt that works from 30m is silly.

 

The two AC's mentioned don't have an interrupt because they aren't suppose to.

[erei]

Electrodart --- Jet boost -- Rocket Punch (with talents to cause knock back)

 

not perfect but worked for me to get thru all content 1-49..

 

also Mako at higher levels stuns some regualrly

Doesn't work against bosses. The ones you fight everyday for endgame. Sometimes it's needed or it's game over.

 

Im guessing the reason Bioware has said no to giving Commando/Merc an interrupt is because the class is designed to be played at 30m+ from the target. So asking Bioware for an interrupt that works from 30m is silly.

 

The two AC's mentioned don't have an interrupt because they aren't suppose to.

I play IA. I have a 30m or maybe slightly less like 20m interrupt. The inquisitor have the same.

 

As mentioned above, the inquisitor/sage have the same number or even more CC, access to the force shield (immune to some amount of damage), sprint boost, dps, healing AND interrupt. But yeah, they were a light armor. The ~10% damage mitigation probably changes everything.

[Gallifrayen]

My example of jumping is pretty bang on considering all classes have an interrupt.

 

Its not like other games where melee/hybrids have an interrupt and casters/long range have a much longer cooldown version of one like 30-45 seconds instead of 5-12 but it is infact an interrupt not a stun,knockback or whatever it does work on bosses.

 

I don't see the problem with them having an interrupt. I play a juggernaut not a commando/merc I brought this up out of curiosity because it just seems bizarre to me.

 

In pvp the only classes effected by interrupt would be sage/inq scoundrel/op(very few things to interrupt) other commandos/mercs sniper/gunslinger

 

My point is over 50% of the classes don't even get effected by interrupt. There are no melee abilities that can be interrupted and many melee classes have gap closers so knockback is a joke OR they are immune to knockback via talents.

 

Snipers/gunslingers can become immune to CC, many of the abilities that people say make the commando/merc overpowered or "fine" are completely countered by most classes in PvP and PvP is the reason they removed the interrupted in the first place.

 

So anybody that can give a real point in this discussion WHY commandos/mercs don't have an interrupt because so far its just a bunch of people saying QQ, whiner and trolls not even making a point.

 

Anyways this thread doesn't seem to be getting the actual discussion I wanted so I may not return.

[KorinHyvek]

From a PvP perspective, only healers, Sorcerors/Sages, and other Commandos/Mercs would really be effected by giving the Merc/Commando and interupt; Melee and Skirmishing classes have few if any skills to interupt, while Gunslingers/Snipers are (at least supposed to be) immune to interupts while in cover (which is pretty much 95% of the time).

 

I don't see any real reason the Merc shouldn't have an interupt; I don't see how they have much more utility than any other class.

[Gallifrayen]

From a PvP perspective, only healers, Sorcerors/Sages, and other Commandos/Mercs would really be effected by giving the Merc/Commando and interupt; Melee and Skirmishing classes have few if any skills to interupt, while Gunslingers/Snipers are (at least supposed to be) immune to interupts while in cover (which is pretty much 95% of the time).

 

I don't see any real reason the Merc shouldn't have an interupt; I don't see how they have much more utility than any other class.

 

This is the entire point im trying to make, they removed a core PvE ability to nerf PvP. When the ability doesn't even have a huge effect in PvP.

[kuey]

From a PvP perspective, only healers, Sorcerors/Sages, and other Commandos/Mercs would really be effected by giving the Merc/Commando and interupt; Melee and Skirmishing classes have few if any skills to interupt, while Gunslingers/Snipers are (at least supposed to be) immune to interupts while in cover (which is pretty much 95% of the time).

 

I don't see any real reason the Merc shouldn't have an interupt; I don't see how they have much more utility than any other class.

 

So true, with a nice little talented 6 second lockout.

[Ellvaan]

Greetings everyone!

 

We just wanted to give you the following information from the Community Blog for March 23, 2012 from Lead Combat Designer, Georg Zoeller:

 

BurdoThePious: Is there a reason why the Commando / Mercenary Advanced Classes do not have an interrupt ability (eg. Mind Snap, Distraction, Force Kick)?

 

Georg Zoeller (Lead Combat Designer): Yes. The lack of an interrupt ability on these Advanced Classes is a purposefully designed weakness in their ability arsenal. At the current time, adding an interrupt to the Commando/Mercenary would increase their combat utility, especially in PvP, beyond what we are comfortable with.

 

That said, this issue is one we’ve re-evaluated with every major patch and will likely continue to revisit in the future. It is not inconceivable that an interrupt may be added to these Advanced Classes in a future update, especially if more PvE content is introduced that relies on a certain number of interrupts being available in a group.

 

We hope this helps answer any questions

[Vid-szhite]

Your Annihilation Marauder has 4 interrupts, not 2.

 

We're talking about hard, raid-boss-capable interrupts, not CCs or knockbacks. If we counted interrupts as anything that could interrupt a casted ability, Mercs have Electro Dart (1), Concussion Missile w/ Power Surge (2), Jet Boost (3), and Rocket Punch (4). Since all of these are useless against a boss, Mercs don't actually have any interrupts, while Annihilation Marauders have 2 - Disruption and Force Charge (they can use FC as an interrupt because they have talents that reduce its minimum range to 0).

 

However, the above abilities I mentioned are indeed examples of Merc utility. Their AoE knockback slows the target to a crawl automatically, making it the best one in the game out of the box. Their Concussion Missile is a long-duration Sleep that affects both flesh targets and droids, and can be used in combat. Mercenaries also have 35% Armor Penetration baseline, in addition to a 20% armor reduce on a spammable ranged attack, they wear heavy armor, and can get not only healing received talents, but damage reduction talents that would put them above even Juggernaut DPS in terms of survivability. They are the only class in the game that can reveal stealth in a wide area. They also have the option to, at will, activate abilities at no cost or with no cast time, and as of 1.2, they have a battle rez. If that isn't utility, I don't know what is. No other class in the game has Armor Reduction, Battle Rez, Heavy Armor, Long Range, and Long-duration in-combat CC all at once.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[kiwoo]

If the issue is with giving Troopers an unfair advantage in PvP with a interrupt. Couldn't they just add an ability that interrupts and is unusable in PvP?

 

The coding is there as for example smugglers headshot isn't usable in PvP.

 

The more bosses that need a constant rotation of interrupts, the less viable 1 AC will be. Irregardless of its other tools which, as others have stated, can be brought to the run by other classes.

 

So adding an interuptable to the AC for PvE only would have zero impact on PvP. Hell they could make it only affect bosses and it would be a major help for the AC.

 

BTW my VG is only 13, but I understand the concerns very well.

Edited April 26, 2012 by kiwoo

[GeneralShade]

Perhaps one of the only things I would criticize BW for is their lack of interupts for Mercs/Coms (most of my other concerns I give them the benefit of the doubt on as this game is still new). If pvp is their only concern they should work in a pve only interupt (like shoulder slam, tumult, etc). It is very frustrating being nuked by the bonus boss in hardmode BT of due to 2 dps mercenaries not being able to interupt. Sure we can offheal the extra damage but aren't able to dps while doing so.

[Vid-szhite]

If the issue is with giving Troopers an unfair advantage in PvP with a interrupt. Couldn't they just add an ability that interrupts and is unusable in PvP?

 

The coding is there as for example smugglers headshot isn't usable in PvP.

 

The more bosses that need a constant rotation of interrupts, the less viable 1 AC will be. Irregardless of its other tools which, as others have stated, can be brought to the run by other classes.

 

So adding an interuptable to the AC for PvE only would have zero impact on PvP. Hell they could make it only affect bosses and it would be a major help for the AC.

 

BTW my VG is only 13, but I understand the concerns very well.

 

It's not about PvP at all, it's about Raid Utility - the devs have said the only reason Mercs don't have one is that it would push their utility in Operations past what they are comfortable with. Mercs do have a ton of it already: they're ranged DPS, they have a battle rez, they wear heavy armor, they have built-in armor penetration, and they have armor reduction, making it a requirement to bring at least one Arsenal Merc. You have MANY reasons to want a Merc in your Operations group.

 

The devs have said, however, that if they ever do make an operations fight where having interrupts is extremely important, they will consider giving Mercs an interrupt, but as it stands, none of the ops require rolling interrupts at all, so Merc's lack of one doesn't really hurt them (but their lack of a battle rez DID make them less desirable as a healer, so they were given one). Even if Mercs didn't have one, though, all the Tank classes have interrupts, and so does every other DPS class in the entire game, so Merc's lack of one wouldn't be such a big deal unless your entire lineup was Mercenaries.

 

I find it kind of funny that everyone is always so quick to blame PvP for negative changes or omissions, even me - a hardcore PvPer.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[kuey]

It's not about PvP at all, it's about Raid Utility - the devs have said the only reason Mercs don't have one is that it would push their utility in Operations past what they are comfortable with. Mercs do have a ton of it already: they're ranged DPS, they have a battle rez, they wear heavy armor, they have built-in armor penetration, and they have armor reduction, making it a requirement to bring at least one Arsenal Merc. You have MANY reasons to want a Merc in your Operations group.

 

The devs have said, however, that if they ever do make an operations fight where having interrupts is extremely important, they will consider giving Mercs an interrupt, but as it stands, none of the ops require rolling interrupts at all, so Merc's lack of one doesn't really hurt them (but their lack of a battle rez DID make them less desirable as a healer, so they were given one). Even if Mercs didn't have one, though, all the Tank classes have interrupts, and so does every other DPS class in the entire game, so Merc's lack of one wouldn't be such a big deal unless your entire lineup was Mercenaries.

 

I find it kind of funny that everyone is always so quick to blame PvP for negative changes or omissions, even me - a hardcore PvPer.

 

Look up at the CS quote and notice the "especially PvP" part and you'll understand why people are blaming PvP for Merc/Commando having no interrupt.

[Gallifrayen]

Greetings everyone!

 

We just wanted to give you the following information from the Community Blog for March 23, 2012 from Lead Combat Designer, Georg Zoeller:

 

 

 

We hope this helps answer any questions

 

Considering the really only 3 out of the 8 ACs are actually effected by an interrupt AND that still nerfed the PvE capability for boss fights.

 

Sorc/Merc/sawbones op - would be effected by an interrupt in pvp

 

Assassin/jugg/maur/PT/operative/snipers(snipers are supposed to be immune to them)

 

So please elaborate on how an interrupt would make them Over powered in PvP when only 2.3 of the classes are really effected by one, when most of the classes that don't cast anything have as many as 4 interrupts and are far less situational because they are melee and will be on top of you and they have an interrupt that will work on bosses.

[blujoker]

Like most folks say it isn't a huge deal. I do play a commando and the only real time it has been an issue is in the Red Reaper flashpoint, I think that is the one. The final boss requires an interrupt as he and his two apprentices are immune to stuns and knockbacks. (a dps commando and myself futilely attempted this for 10-15 mins before checking with our guild mates to figure out the mechanic, had to bring in a gs to finish the fight. We were lvl 50s going cause we hadn't visited before)

 

Sometimes it would be nice to have an interrupt, but like was said it is a weakness of the class, I guess I should be glad I haven't run into to many flash points that require the interrupt.

[drtnap]

Like most folks say it isn't a huge deal. I do play a commando and the only real time it has been an issue is in the Red Reaper flashpoint, I think that is the one. The final boss requires an interrupt as he and his two apprentices are immune to stuns and knockbacks. (a dps commando and myself futilely attempted this for 10-15 mins before checking with our guild mates to figure out the mechanic, had to bring in a gs to finish the fight. We were lvl 50s going cause we hadn't visited before)

 

Sometimes it would be nice to have an interrupt, but like was said it is a weakness of the class, I guess I should be glad I haven't run into to many flash points that require the interrupt.

 

FE HM , lost island, and other FPs will wipe without interrrupting certain boss abilities. In a fp with 3 players watching the boss (healer does'nt) having even one without an interrupt is a liability. If you try lost island with 2 commandos for dps you will wipe. Its less of a problem in raids with more players involved but i still feel like im not pulling my weight without a boss interrupt. Thanks for making my commando a liability Bioware.

[erei]

It's not about PvP at all, it's about Raid Utility - the devs have said the only reason Mercs don't have one is that it would push their utility in Operations past what they are comfortable with. Mercs do have a ton of it already: they're ranged DPS, they have a battle rez, they wear heavy armor, they have built-in armor penetration, and they have armor reduction, making it a requirement to bring at least one Arsenal Merc. You have MANY reasons to want a Merc in your Operations group.

/QUOTE]

Compairing with sage/sorcerer DPS :

ranged DPS : check

battle rez : check (anyway, once you use one the whole raid is in cd, you don't need many of them)

heavy armor : nop. BTW, the armor is not that important in raid IMO

heal available : check

unmissable skills : check

plenty of CC : check ( I suspect there is even more CC for a sage/sorcerer)

 

built in armor penetration : nop.

armor debuff : nop

 

best energy management : sorcerer/sage

sprint ability : sorcerer/sage

force armor (invulnerability to some amount each minute or so) : sage/sorcerer

friendly pull (don't know if it's really useful, but it can have some use) : sage/sorcerer

 

and ofc :

interrupt : sorcerer/sage

 

Oh yeah, I understand now. The only things a sage/sorcerer doesn't have is heavy armor and armor debuffing/penetration. But they do have everything else, and more. They still have an interrupt.

[blujoker]

Thanks for the heads up there, drtnap. Gah, that would have been annoying.

[KingMeteor]

So i'm playing pvp today and I'm helping defend a base along with a guardian. Our opponents are a marauder and a Operative healer. While the Operative healer was keeping his parts health in check my healing was being affected by the ops interrupts.

 

With my cc's on cd I had no way to impede the Operatives healing while he every 10 seconds or so could stop me mid cast.

 

Mercs didnt have a combat rez but now they do, Can't the same rule be applied for interrupts pls?

[Helig]

Whhhahahhahahhahahaha

 

the same reason my vanguard doesnt have a cc, oh yea you forgot to mention commandos have a cc.

 

if all classes had the same abilities dont you think people would just stack raids with vanguards or other heavy armor eqivs

 

Like a hard single target stun and an AoE stun? Oh-kay No CC at all.

 

 

As for the OP, I feel for Mandos and Mercs - looks like they got the short end of the stick in regards to PvP utility.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Helig

[Celise]

Didn't the devs address this? Not every class needs interrupts when they have other strengths (e.g. dps).

 

others strengths are useless like DPS on certain missions like red reaper where a cc is needed to progress to finish that FP mission right at the end with the boss, otherwise it will never complete if everyone in the team was a commando.