Why Expertise Stat in PVP?

[mArchangel]

I would gather folks are flaming because they smell a troll on a subject that has literally been beat to death already in these forums, 100 times over.

 

So what? Let it be 101 times. A shame BW takes THAT long to realise their idea don't work in the real world. Every bit of rebalancing they did so far sucks ***. THe trooper nerf, the Exp increase of importance etc.....they break this beyond belief just because they are too vain to admit their mistake in copying WoW. Recruit set is a last clutching at straws to make it acceptable and it still fails due to lack of depth in regards to health pool etc. PvP is broken and was from the getgo on 50. :S Not cool at all.

 

P.S. I have a toon around 35ish that I dont level apart from doing WZs. To prolong my fun with it. Is that what they intended? Sigh. I am very disappointed that BioWare, BIOWARE, of all developers creates something as sub-par as this.

Edited April 24, 2012 by mArchangel

[mArchangel]

Is this guy serious? Expertise is horrible, making people actually have to PvP to be good at it. Pffft. I should be able to gear up to God status, then join a warzone and smite people without ever learning how to play objectives or work as a team.. I should just walk into my first warzone, and destroy everybody, rendering all strategy and skill completely useless.

 

Took me a while to get what you are saying. Very ironic really. And if I got you right and you are pro expertise you can kiss my naked butt. You lost it in that case. EXPERTISE BREAKS EVERYTHING!

 

One last time: PvP in Warzones is a sideact to the game. BioWare gives you guys too much attention its a MMORPG not an MMOPVP game. If anyone wants to play PvP 24/7 roll on a PvP server and Bioware, please leave Expertise over there. Fixed and dusted. We all have fun. Plus we get all those ego-fluffers off our PvE servers. So many issues solved in one fell swoop.

[Aussiedroid]

I would gather folks are flaming because they smell a troll on a subject that has literally been beat to death already in these forums, 100 times over.

 

I actually did have a look for a topic covering my concerns but didn't see anything anytime recent covering removing Expertise and essentially rebalancing the gear. Judging from the number of responses it is still a valid topic and concern for many.

[Urbansandz]

Haven't read all the comments, but just want to add my support to the OP. I really enjoyed 10-49 PvP, but I'm finding lvl 50 PvP to be extremely frustrating. Even with recruit gear the 50 PvP is highly imbalanced between the haves and the have nots. I literally feel bad for any team that has me on their side because my damage output is laughable.

[Annex]

Is this guy serious? Expertise is horrible, making people actually have to PvP to be good at it. Pffft. I should be able to gear up to God status, then join a warzone and smite people without ever learning how to play objectives or work as a team.. I should just walk into my first warzone, and destroy everybody, rendering all strategy and skill completely useless.

 

+1...

[Silvaeris]

I don't really understand one aspect here - if expertise gets removed, and highest tier PVP and PVE gear shall have similar stats (like in, e.g. Warhammer Online), won't the PVE geared player have just equal chances in PVP to the PVP geared players ? Furthermore, such a player (at least in opinion of the majority) should lack in skill and experience in PVP, so he/she will still lose ? What's there to worry about? Sense of entitlement/exclusivity to PVP?

[Darth_Philar]

I don't really understand one aspect here - if expertise gets removed, and highest tier PVP and PVE gear shall have similar stats (like in, e.g. Warhammer Online), won't the PVE geared player have just equal chances in PVP to the PVP geared players ? Furthermore, such a player (at least in opinion of the majority) should lack in skill and experience in PVP, so he/she will still lose ? What's there to worry about? Sense of entitlement/exclusivity to PVP?

 

Raiders of Warzones want to believe they are better than Raiders of Operations, just as Raiders of Operations want to believe they are better than Raiders of Warzones.

 

Fact is, there is no difference between the two groups. They are both PvE.

[skidrows]

If they add 2-3 new tiers every year on pvp it will be bad, but in pve they will be happy. Why it would be bad is simple becase the more lvl off gear you have the bigger the gap between new and old players will be.

 

As i se it pvp should be fun, not just a grind to get gear like pve is.

Edited April 25, 2012 by skidrows

[ComeAndSee]

Let me TLDR;

 

WHY DOES PVP STATS EXIST?

 

* Before the magical PvP stat existed, PvP and PvE gear shared the same stats.

 

* More content was added -- more PvE gear was added, but not PvP.

 

* PvE gear became the best PvP gear. PvP gear was "second-rate" PvE gear.

 

* Those who raided the high end content got the best gear in game.

 

* PvPers complained about having to PvE for PvP gear. Game developers created PvP gear so those who PvE and PvP have to have different sets.

Edited April 25, 2012 by ComeAndSee

[Khoraji]

Let me TLDR;

 

WHY DOES PVP STATS EXIST?

 

* Before the magical PvP stat existed, PvP and PvE gear shared the same stats.

 

* More content was added -- more PvE gear was added, but not PvP.

 

* PvE gear became the best PvP gear. PvP gear was "second-rate" PvE gear.

 

* Those who raided the high end content got the best gear in game.

 

* PvPers complained about having to PvE for PvP gear. Game developers created PvP gear so those who PvE and PvP have to have different sets.

 

This is pretty much it.

[JeramieCrowe]

Let me TLDR;

 

WHY DOES PVP STATS EXIST?

 

* Before the magical PvP stat existed, PvP and PvE gear shared the same stats.

 

* More content was added -- more PvE gear was added, but not PvP.

 

* PvE gear became the best PvP gear. PvP gear was "second-rate" PvE gear.

 

* Those who raided the high end content got the best gear in game.

 

* PvPers complained about having to PvE for PvP gear. Game developers created PvP gear so those who PvE and PvP have to have different sets.

 

And that's why I still say that rewarding PvPers to PvP was the worst mistake in MMO history. I long for the days when people PvP'd for the reward of simply PvPing! That's when PvP was at its best.

[Razot]

Just wait a bit when you will need 2000+ expertise to compete.

Its a cycle that keeps on giving misery. Those that will spend all the time grinding the current best gear QQing when they hand it out for almost nothing, and the have nots that explode on respawn.

 

In the end the only thing expertise really does is make the PVP game die faster and kills any real option for open world PVP..

Edited April 25, 2012 by Razot

[mArchangel]

This is pretty much it.

 

And a complete failure. I don't think any MMORPG should be trying to balance PvP vs PvE. It essentially is a PvE game in that case. No gear attached to PvP and period. Problem solved. If you do not like to do FPs or OPS you should look for a different game or genre. IF the game started off as a MMOPVP ala Warhammer you mayyyyybe would have had a point.

THe fact is that PvPers are usually the loudest on forums to complain about **** and thus get heard by the devs. They should stop catering for those and make sure the vision they had for the game as a whole is maintained. Right now it is not.

Don't like the opinion dear PvP community. I could not care less. Fact is that I like to PvP in WARZONES sometimes and right now its not fun. This is what this is all about-fun for ALL not some elitist group of ganksters. Bah. I had enough of all this rubble talk really.

[mArchangel]

I don't really understand one aspect here - if expertise gets removed, and highest tier PVP and PVE gear shall have similar stats (like in, e.g. Warhammer Online), won't the PVE geared player have just equal chances in PVP to the PVP geared players ? Furthermore, such a player (at least in opinion of the majority) should lack in skill and experience in PVP, so he/she will still lose ? What's there to worry about? Sense of entitlement/exclusivity to PVP?

 

100% spot on! The point is that PvP ganksters like to have the advantage over the casual PvPer and love fluffing egos with killing those in two shots. That is what this is all about whether the PvP community has the balls to admit it or not.

[mArchangel]

Raiders of Warzones want to believe they are better than Raiders of Operations, just as Raiders of Operations want to believe they are better than Raiders of Warzones.

 

Fact is, there is no difference between the two groups. They are both PvE.

 

Nonsense statement!

[mArchangel]

Just wait a bit when you will need 2000+ expertise to compete.

Its a cycle that keeps on giving misery. Those that will spend all the grinding the current best gear QQing when they hand it out easy, and the have nots that explode on respawn.

 

In the end the only thing expertise really does is make the PVP game die faster and kills any real option for open world PVP..

 

EXACTLY. Spontenous open world PvP is what I looked forward to, but now its basically dead. You are sooooo right mate.

[mArchangel]

expertise should increase hp in pvp, this is the first game ive ever played where pve'rs have more hitpoints that pvp doesnt make sense to me

 

I tell you what does not make sense to me and it just dawned on me what the main issue is here:

PvPers vs PvEers! Don't you guys see that the stat HAS TO go in order to get the cohesion back into the server populace and remove the divide it causes. Some servers are soooo dead that this is something any decent developer should not do if they are in their right mind.

[JeramieCrowe]

Nonsense statement!

 

No, he really does have a good point. PvP in MMOs these days really is no longer PvP. It's PvE against player opponents, basically. Gone are the days of true PvP mechanics.

[Cailen]

I'm a pvp'er but I think they should lose the expertise stat.

 

My fix would be:

 

Give Campaign and Warhero gear EXACTLY same stats just change set bonuses to benefit skills more suited for pvp/pve.

 

That way both can still be used in either scenario and there are two different routes to get gear, just the PVP set bonuses for skill cooldowns etc would favour pvp and vice versa.

[Razot]

Imo the buff expertise got in 1.2 was the rigor mortis setting in..

[FoxNemhauser]

If the expertise exists only to make sure that pve gear is not viable in pvp environment then the idea failed.

 

Better solution is to make one single tier of pvp gear that is free and not allow to fight warzones with anything else.

That way the pve gear is for pve only and pvping is done for the sake of pvping and not gear progression.

 

To those that say this is MMO and you need to have a gear progression even in pvp I would say: have a progression in cosmetics (start simple and get more and more epic looks to stroke our epeens) or stats transfering (basically the power of your gear stays the same but you can tweak it, get more crit rate at a cost of less health etc - small changes to fit more to your playstyle).

 

Gear pvp is the whole reason we won't have a competetive pvp. True pvp's most likely left and what remains are those who actually like the gear grind (but not againsts the AI mobs).

Can you imagine a game of chess where one player has 8 pawns but the other has 7 pawns and a second queen at the start? That's SWTOR pvp.

[Razot]

Baseline the damn stat already and just give small stat increases per tier!

I want to see some kind of open world PVP, not endless WZ grinding for gear.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Razot

[DarkHelsing]

I invite everyone to place a vote and voice how they feel, so I can attempt to tally the responses to hopefully get a better overall view about what is going on here.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=432304

[Karkais]

Sense of entitlement/exclusivity is exactly what PVP gear promotes. It is entirely artificial way to create a segregation between people who have it and those who dont. Great job not understanding the whole issue.

 

Expertise is UNNEEDED.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Karkais

[Aussiedroid]

Imo the buff expertise got in 1.2 was the rigor mortis setting in..

 

I agree, it was noticeable before the 1.2 patch but not to the extent it is now. The margin seems to keep getting bigger.

 

Players with the gear I am sure are happy with the way it works on the whole because they top the charts and get more wins. PVP crowd are vocal and seems there is a clear split between those that appreciate the issues around PVP vs PVE and those that acknowledge there are other ways to address these concerns that could be of benefit to all players, not just those that spend a lot of time in warzones.

 

Everyone is complaining about players leaving warzones, so why do they do that? Well, my view is they leave because its no fun, they see the pack of War Hero geared players on the march and know they don't have a chance. People get sick of being Cannon Fodder even when they may be a better player than the opposition.

 

I havent left any warzones myself to this point but suffering 15mins of death after death is getting tiresome and I do not accept I am so bad at playing the game that I simply cannot kill them .. its again that they have the gear to destroy you without even burning a cooldown. I am running with the Recruit set now, so I am at least doing some damage, but vs a War Hero player I still seem them laughing at their screen as I run up to try to best them. I have also seen players who are healers that can just sit there and out heal my dps indefinately, throwing some occasional dps that eventually kills me. Seems out of balance.

 

Regrettably, I think now Bioware has made the decision to go down this path that it wont change but in the long term this will be a disadvantage to those who casually play warzones. The divide will get bigger as one faction gets stronger more quickly (generally Imps from my experience) and once they have the gear the rest of us just cant compete.

 

I can see one day I will have enough and simply stop queuing ...

 

This would be a shame as PVP is well designed from a arena point of view and game mechanics (less the CC Resolve system) but ruined by the lack of balance in gear.