Kracin Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 after a long night of pvp. premade and solo, i ran into countless groups of healspam teams. these teams didn't have the dps to down anyone quickly, but rather outlasted the entire opposing team through crosshealing, last game i played was 3 dedicated healers and 3 off healer. and by off healer, i mean there are 3 dps specced sage/operatives that will spam their heals onto healer to keep them up in between AOE stunning the enemy team. unless you have a team full of geared out dps there is almost no way to focus all of the healers down while they sit there and chain heal each other around a node while spamming knockbacks, stuns, while their 2-3 dps run wild the whole match getting heals from 2-3 people at at ime because everybody is tossing hots out constantly. something needs to happen.. either mitigate the healing done by a dps spec severely to make sure that there are no super hybrid healers running around cross healing just to outlast people. or **** it, nerf the healing even more. after all of the problems with overpowered healing, it is even more of a problem now with hybrid specs that will off heal healers on the side to keep them alive long enough for them to outlive your stuns/inturrupts in the fray. making it damn near impossible to kill any of them fast enough to make a difference. anyone else run into this lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidechemist Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 after a long night of pvp. premade and solo, i ran into countless groups of healspam teams. these teams didn't have the dps to down anyone quickly, but rather outlasted the entire opposing team through crosshealing, last game i played was 3 dedicated healers and 3 off healer. and by off healer, i mean there are 3 dps specced sage/operatives that will spam their heals onto healer to keep them up in between AOE stunning the enemy team. unless you have a team full of geared out dps there is almost no way to focus all of the healers down while they sit there and chain heal each other around a node while spamming knockbacks, stuns, while their 2-3 dps run wild the whole match getting heals from 2-3 people at at ime because everybody is tossing hots out constantly. something needs to happen.. either mitigate the healing done by a dps spec severely to make sure that there are no super hybrid healers running around cross healing just to outlast people. or **** it, nerf the healing even more. after all of the problems with overpowered healing, it is even more of a problem now with hybrid specs that will off heal healers on the side to keep them alive long enough for them to outlive your stuns/inturrupts in the fray. making it damn near impossible to kill any of them fast enough to make a difference. anyone else run into this lately? No way, dude. The solution is to get rid of healers entirely. Then the forums will fill with threads from ppl like you whining because they die too fast.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armaso Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 after a long night of pvp. premade and solo, i ran into countless groups of healspam teams. these teams didn't have the dps to down anyone quickly, but rather outlasted the entire opposing team through crosshealing, last game i played was 3 dedicated healers and 3 off healer. and by off healer, i mean there are 3 dps specced sage/operatives that will spam their heals onto healer to keep them up in between AOE stunning the enemy team. unless you have a team full of geared out dps there is almost no way to focus all of the healers down while they sit there and chain heal each other around a node while spamming knockbacks, stuns, while their 2-3 dps run wild the whole match getting heals from 2-3 people at at ime because everybody is tossing hots out constantly. something needs to happen.. either mitigate the healing done by a dps spec severely to make sure that there are no super hybrid healers running around cross healing just to outlast people. or **** it, nerf the healing even more. after all of the problems with overpowered healing, it is even more of a problem now with hybrid specs that will off heal healers on the side to keep them alive long enough for them to outlive your stuns/inturrupts in the fray. making it damn near impossible to kill any of them fast enough to make a difference. anyone else run into this lately? I'm near speechless about the notion that your "team" couldn't kill these 1.2 version of healers....in any number. You must be trollin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountAthaulf Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Please for the love of god tell me your not serious.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebado Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 If you let a team of healers get the nodes, you lost at that point. And if you can't burn through a team of healers with the expertise changes, then you either had a severely undergeared team or weren't as organized as they were. Crosshealing is less effective post 1.2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akiva_IC Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Here's the question: If you got facerolled by a team of DPS coming through and just obliterating you, zerging every player, well coordinated, etc., would you come through to the forums and complain? Probably not. So, children, it's OK to win a Warzone because of DPS but *not* OK to win it because of healing. Sounds like they had a strategy you just haven't learned how to deal with. DPS elitists FTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvilEeyore Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I am going to drop a hint here that might blow your mind. Lets go into the wonderful world of Crowd Control, otherwise known as CC. Within the mechanics of this game we call Star Wars there exists abilities that keep other players, "the enemies", from doing anything for a short while. Unless its some ability like AWE, or Flash grenade.. that **** lasts for like 8 seconds. Sorry but if you are having trouble killing healer heavy teams then your team is probably 1/2 healers as well. Most dps classes in game can make any healer go into survival mode. just put some pressure on the other healers, and they will quickly stop healing the focus healer. as for dps sorcs of healing. the only spell they have that is any good at all takes 3 seconds to cast. If that is not getting interrupted every time then people need to pay more attention to cast bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixbomber Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I had a guy on my team last night saying something like this; I inspected him and he was using level 40 mods etc and had no expertise gear at all. It wouldn't surprise me if he posted on the forums about taking too much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 If you can't win a match against a team of healers.....You guys either needed to learn to focus targets better ..... or you just needed better DPS in general. A train of DPS properly focusing a target down can put out enough damage that no healer would be able to heal through it (assuming they aren't derping around, trying to DPS through guard and taunt rather than swapping to a softer target). Even before 1.2 I would cringe whenever I get into a random WZ that has 2+ other healers (that's 3 including me) because it's almost always a loss unless the other team is also heavy healer stacked -- in which case it becomes a long *** turtle fight. Too many healers on the enemy team makes them weaker....not stronger. Especially after the nerf to all healing and the buff to all DPS via expertise in 1.2. Healers were just nerfed, and you are still crying about them? Go gear up or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roccobb Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Lol, everyone else on the forums are saying we need to bolster healing, and you are saying nerf it more? No, no, no. My healer is squishy, and can't get more than 1 heal off before becoming focused and killed. Just because you came across a very well organized team does not mean we need to nerf them again. Just focus kill them. Even with 2 other healers healing them, 3 dps can kill them pretty quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Healers were just nerfed, and you are still crying about them? Go gear up or something. Three healers is the absolute maximum a team can handle having and still have a good chance, although as a healer I never object to DPS sages throwing bubbles on me (if only they did it more often!) 2 healers, 2 tanks and 4 dps should beat 4 healers every time post 1.2, to be honest. The only time all-healer teams are godlike is if the other team lack good DPS who can put out damage, interrupt and focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Lord_Nataku Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 they used tactics and teamwork Teamwork in a team based game with a community?!?!? GET RID OF PREMADES!!!!!!! /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visue Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Is this thread real? Healers are the weakest they've ever been... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Teamwork in a team based game with a community?!?!? GET RID OF PREMADES!!!!!!! /sarcasm Sillyness of this thread aside... "tactics" and "teamwork" sound a little too fancy for "select lowest health in range" and "press heal buttons" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Lord_Nataku Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Sillyness of this thread aside... "tactics" and "teamwork" sound a little too fancy for "select lowest health in range" and "press heal buttons" If a team was smart enough to organize a team with that many healers, which have been nerf'd in 1.2, and they're able to despite focus fire (I assume the healers were being focused down otherwise your original point is worthless), then all the power to them. Let them reap the benefits of teamwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 If a team was smart enough to organize a team with that many healers, which have been nerf'd in 1.2, and they're able to despite focus fire (I assume the healers were being focused down otherwise your original point is worthless), then all the power to them. Let them reap the benefits of teamwork. I'm not agreeing with the OP. I'm just saying in all likelihood it was just a bunch of healers that happened to queue at the same time and do what healers do. Being a healer and healing someone doesn't make someone special. People get so proud when they use their class abilities that involve anything other than direct damage on an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diviciacus Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) last game i played was 3 dedicated healers and 3 off healer. and by off healer, i mean there are 3 dps specced sage/operatives that will spam their heals onto healer to keep them up in between AOE stunning the enemy team. The reason for this is that there is no drawback to casting heals as a DPS-spec'd Commando/Merc or Op/scoundrel. Looking at WoW, if you weren't spec'd as a healer, your heals did about 75% less healing - but TOR has no way to grant such a bonus (ie. 75% more healing to a legitimate healer over the base value of the heals, which was basically nothing: for example, 5k heal with a health pool of 100,000+ in Cataclysm) without giving it to the class in general (eg. the no-CD on resurrects for classes that CAN heal, regardless if they are healers or not). Gimping ridiculous Mercs that spam heals and then spam tracer missile, or operatives that spam heals, then vanish and mash HS or lacerate as the situation demands is clearly something that needs to happen. Otherwise, in ranked WZ's everyone is just going to use a team of two tanks (in case Huttball comes up for ball carriers and/or aoe taunting), three healers and three not-a-healer-but-heals-anyway-lol. Good luck trying to burst someone down when you have to set up coordinated CC on six targets first. Edited April 21, 2012 by Diviciacus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Lord_Nataku Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I'm not agreeing with the OP. I'm just saying in all likelihood it was just a bunch of healers that happened to queue at the same time and do what healers do. Being a healer and healing someone doesn't make someone special. People get so proud when they use their class abilities that involve anything other than direct damage on an enemy. Fair enough. No offense to healers out there, just doing what you're supposed to do won't get my MVP vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The reason for this is that there is no drawback to casting heals as a DPS-spec'd Commando/Merc or Op/scoundrel. Looking at WoW, if you weren't spec'd as a healer, your heals did about 75% less healing - but TOR has no way to grant such a bonus (ie. 75% more healing to a legitimate healer over the base value of the heals, which was basically nothing: for example, 5k heal with a health pool of 100,000+ in Cataclysm) without giving it to the class in general (eg. the no-CD on resurrects for classes that CAN heal, regardless if they are healers or not). Um, as a Sawbones my UWM does considerably more than when I'm in a DPS spec. Healers get quite a few bonuses to our heals, although in the case of Scoundrels the changes to the trees mean that most DPS builds now have 8+ points in Sawbones so... they should get some healing benefits from putting 20% of their skillpoints in healing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raist- Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The healers here saying they were nerfed or healing has changed in 1.2 really need to learn to play or actually spec for healing now and not just have a dps build with a little healing. if you spec for healing and survival and gear yourself for the healing and survival you are going to be very close to un-killable by bad players and teams who do not focus and use CC properly. I have to hand it to Bioware for pvp in 1.2. Team v team format now needing much more skill and teamwork than before was suprising. The divide between bad players and good players has increased a ton since 1.2, reading these and class forums have shown it. Maybe some should think about returning to WoW or Hello Kitty Island instead of wasting time posting on the forums. As a heal spec operative it pretty easy to 3v1 bad players who do not look at buffs and watch cast bars. PvP is already easy with tab targeting, heaven forbid you actually have to learn other class ability animations, cast times, and buff symbols. Its also seems its too complex for some to put cast bars in the middle of their UI and use interupts. Really hope bioware does not listen to bad players who should not even be on a pvp server to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kracin Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 regardless of the expertise changes, 4 full battlemaster dps were unable to down a single healer, because you have 4 healers all healing whichever one is being focused until their backup arrives. it does work, but unfortunately it isn't a very good system when it makes a team unkillable due to spamming heals repeatedly, even in dps form. you only have so many inturrupts and they have just as many different heals that come back up quicker than your inturrupts. unfortunately there are a lot of fanboys that rely on "l2p" and "baddies" as their main focus of retort, which is funny, because currently i see more healers, marauders, and sentinels than ever before. it used to be no problem for healing as people only "needed" 2 healers per team to make a difference, and they were easier to actually focus down, because they were either alone with their dps/tank counterparts, or they were with their other healer which meant the other nodes/areas werent under constant heals. but now people are overcompensating and teaming up with multiple healers, essentially even though the healing is down and the damage is up, it makes it much harder to focus a single rhealer when 2-3 others are focus healing him at the same time the dps is attacking. and lets face it, there are more ways to mitigate damage, than there are to keep someone from being healed for much. bioware forgot to add certain abilties that mitigate healing done to targets. ie target is always taking less than 80% damage, but always receiving 100% healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luminastik Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 regardless of the expertise changes, 4 full battlemaster dps were unable to down a single healer, because you have 4 healers all healing whichever one is being focused until their backup arrives. it does work, but unfortunately it isn't a very good system when it makes a team unkillable due to spamming heals repeatedly, even in dps form. you only have so many inturrupts and they have just as many different heals that come back up quicker than your inturrupts. I lol'd. If you have four full-battlemaster dps, you should be able to take down any of those healers that you want to if you played smart. Even with 3 healers healing one person, they can be easily spiked down by 2-3 smart dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 using interrupts is hard. using stuns is hard. focusing healers is hard. 4 or 5 dps focusing on one target is going to bring that target down, without fail. if youre "team" couldnt do that, then you were not focusing firing effectively. the problem is not with how powerful healers are, the problem is with your inability to coordinate as a team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DweezillKagemand Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) 1 clever Marauder/Powertech can utterly destroy a healer. Also, isn't the Power and Expertise stacking against healers as well as the Trauma debuff enough for you? Edited April 21, 2012 by DweezillKagemand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasgruberg Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) yup i call troll. Im a jug dpser/tank hybrid http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrGzkzZfMRMrhdzM.1 and i roflstomp many healers in this spec got 2 war hero pieces rest bm. Healing needs a buff , especially sorcs Edited April 21, 2012 by Dasgruberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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