Sorcs struggling with 1.2 PVP, we can help if you want to improve

[scottdfan]

I dusted off my sorc last night, who I hadn't played since the second day of 1.2.. but I only have 1 week left on my sub, so I wanted to try something and see if it worked.

 

I did PUG groups and wound up going 9/9 .. which was thanks in one part to getting put in with decent premades and second to a new strategy in voidstar (which for some reason I ended up in 5 times out of the 9 wz's)

 

I was bait.

 

When people see a sorc throw down a circle, you become an irresistible target that everyone seems to have to stop what they are doing to kill.

 

Run towards door... drop circle on door... see entire group turn and come flying at me.. yep, I go down in about 10 seconds.. but it is longer than the 8 seconds it took someone to plant on the door when everyone was focused on killing me.

 

Yes, this strategy requires some level of stupid from the other side, but they kept obliging over and over and over again.

[Genttry]

Well, at least staf isn't a liar; he's just a bit soft in the head. I like how he tried to insult you by mentioning many of your guildmates quit. How the hell is that an insult?! (especially considering the fact that you mentioned it first) "Haha, someone else you use to play with decided that they wanted to take a break from paying for swtor; you suck!" It's even worse than mistaking correlation with causation; it just doesn't make any sense. I guess I shouldn't try to apply reason to his posts, just gonna make my head hurt.

 

Speaking of people quitting: Damnit Jibs/Gent, start playing more! There's still plenty of people getting on to beat on the pubs/ each other.

 

-Hedley Melange, Dreshdae Cantina-

 

Thanks for the pep talk, buddy Staf is just an odd bird. First it was an honor for him to play on our premade, now he's flaming them and me, what's next looolo?!

 

I see you have things well in hand representin' the capable sorcs on Dreshdae though! I'm back on WoW about to grind this season's gladiator now, though This time, I'm gonna try a warlock and see how that goes...Cheers!

 

edit: I hope you crush that one pub guild out there who actually has decent players, boy oh boy, I can't even remember their name right now..know who I am talking about Hedley?

Edited April 28, 2012 by Genttry

[Sock_Bramson]

Yeah, I can't remember the name either, but there are some pub players that give us some good, close games.

Pretty sure I played 'em in a civil war a day or two ago: they got 2 turrets after the usual fuster cluck; we capped one back and got some good defense going, only to realize they were gonna beat us by 5-10 points without a 3 cap; we eventually said "screw it" and zerged their turret to get the ol' fuster cluck going again, letting them cap to go ahead and end the game.

I'd like to think we beat them more often than not, but I am a bit biased and haven't been collecting any pertinent data. My post 1.2 experience has been very pleasant so far, though. I may lose 1-3 games at most in a given day, but it's fairly usual for me to not lose any.

 

-Hedley Melange, Dreshdae Cantina-

[Itukaaj]

Kind of like a companion would do.

 

 

Yes. QFT

 

Sorc are the new advanced AI PVP companions. More people will want us as our modable skirts get shorter and shorter.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Itukaaj

[iheartnyc]

So I've only been doing warzones for about a week or so post 1.2 (took a month break from the game) and I'm trying to catch up on what needs to be changed. The only sources I can seem to find are this thread and the stickied "Guide", and to be honest the Guide thread seems to be a cluster-dsfdf.

 

Would be interested in getting some more definitive guidance on the best DPS build from the most experienced Sorcs here post 1.2. I am currently using a hybrid build and on average deal about 300k damage per WZ but am basically using the same build/strategy as prior to 1.2. I have noticed that prior to 1.2, I was always 1 or 2 overall in terms of DPS, but now I'm usually #3 or so. Either people just got better or better geared, or I'm not playing properly post 1.2. My server, while very populated, doesn't seem very competitive PvP wise, so I think my "success" may be more due to the crappiness of my opposition than anything else.

 

Also if you don't mind sharing, did you feel the need to change your keybindings post 1.2?

 

Also (last question), I generally mouse turn and move by clicking left and right mouse button, but it seems like many of the better sorcs actually still use wasd or esdf for movement. Is this because mobility and castable spells while moving are not major issues for Sorc as opposed to say a Marauder?

Edited May 4, 2012 by iheartnyc

[pinkseid]

So I've only been doing warzones for about a week or so post 1.2 (took a month break from the game) and I'm trying to catch up on what needs to be changed. The only sources I can seem to find are this thread and the stickied "Guide", and to be honest the Guide thread seems to be a cluster-dsfdf.

 

Would be interested in getting some more definitive guidance on the best DPS build from the most experienced Sorcs here post 1.2. I am currently using a hybrid build and on average deal about 300k damage per WZ but am basically using the same build/strategy as prior to 1.2. I have noticed that prior to 1.2, I was always 1 or 2 overall in terms of DPS, but now I'm usually #3 or so. Either people just got better or better geared, or I'm not playing properly post 1.2. My server, while very populated, doesn't seem very competitive PvP wise, so I think my "success" may be more due to the crappiness of my opposition than anything else.

 

Also if you don't mind sharing, did you feel the need to change your keybindings post 1.2?

 

Also (last question), I generally mouse turn and move by clicking left and right mouse button, but it seems like many of the better sorcs actually still use wasd or esdf for movement. Is this because mobility and castable spells while moving are not major issues for Sorc as opposed to say a Marauder?

 

 

WASD and ESDF are crap key placements

 

RDFG allows for better and more direct access to the keyboard.

My pinky alone can accurately hit: `12qwaszx

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUGZip0Sff8

This video is a 0/20/21 build...

 

Some of the more expert skills implemented are:

 

1. Kite Attacking

- attacking while evading enemy

2. Kite Defense

- healing/bubbling while evading enemy

3. Almost 0 wasted GCDs

- if you look at my cast bar... you will rarely see it stop

4. Positioning

- where i move/stand is very deliberate

5. Proc awareness/Cooldown awareness

- wrath, bubble, stun, knockback

6. Offensive awareness

- picking out critical target

7. Defensive awareness

- healing where necessary to prevent teammate death

8. Assist Bubble Technique

- look carefully at my video and you'll see bubbles protecting my teammates this technique is very advanced.

- While target enemy, I hit assist key> bubble > continue attacking.... this means that my bubble is applied to the person directly being attacked

9 Specific VS class offensive and defensive maneuvres

- my fighting pattern is specific to the class... ie counterspells, line of sight, kiting, slow, root, stun

 

Had I concentrated on Offense would've easily done about 400k dmg... but we won in a short game with me doing 250/170 dmg/heal

 

There was another pure dps sorc on my team.. who only managed 180kdmg with 40k heals.

- the difference is simply the pts 1,2,3..9 above

 

 

20lightning is best for PVP for both heal spec or dps spec.

[Cempa]

There really is no good reason to play a Sorc after 1.2 unless you really enjoy a challenge. If we had even class distribution in the warzones, I think it would still be pretty fun. The majority of the warzones I join now have mostly marauders, assassins, and powertechs, all of which destroy sorc. The increase burst is hurting them waaay more than the nerf to Chain Lightning Wrath spam. There are times when I have 4 marauders on me. *** can you do with that? It's pretty much insta gib.

 

I'm not saying we should survive 4 of anything (and no class should), but the fact they go after sorc first because of the huge crit numbers they can get is stupid and not very fun. There are a couple of shadows that follow me around and I can control them a bit but eventually they will end up killing me unless allies help. This is the ONLY class that seems to be completely dependent on others in PVP.

 

Sorcerer is the only class I can get +1k crits against with FL! Every one else is below +1k -talking +16/+17k HP targets- I have 4/5 WH rest BM with 16xx WP (I use Endurance stim not WP) but 68% Surge as I did not start the optimization grind yet.

 

If Madness become Force Neutral and Electric Binding drops to tier one I would play Madness.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Cempa

[robozvir]

WASD...

 

...20lightning is best for PVP for both heal spec or dps spec.

 

Honestly, my impression of the video is: You are good support, good skilled player who knows where he have to be in every stage of encounter. Your team is very good and skilled people, so as you... But, i haven't seen nothing new. I don't know who your opponents were, but as for me, their were acting like noobs. No one was trying to kill you during 2 rounds at all. I don't know why it is. People were just running around completely ignoring healing and shielding sorc... It's odd... Just once opponents decided to kill you, and they've done it without any problem. 6-9 seconds and you're dead, as the rest of sorcs in 1.2... You wrote right words about kiting, shielding etc. but it's not a solution of the problems sorcs have in 1.2. I'm doing the same, but if I have mara or sin on me - I'm 90% dead. All I seen it's something like "find yourself a good team who will guard and heal you, and tanking, to you stay out of enemies sight". No offense. You're good. But I think in wz like this most people wouldn't expect any problems.

As for me, I've found my own solution. I respeced into 0/10/31. Still have trouble with sins and maras, have no burst at all, expecting lack of force, but often I can survive till backup comes.

Edited May 4, 2012 by robozvir

[Jordalx]

Who cares? Everyone knows Sorcs/Sages need serious fixes or buffs. Good players will always perform fine with a class, even under powered ones. Does not mean the class is good.

[blokey]

No, our class has the same potential as any other class, it just takes more skill to get there than with some of the other classes. It's now our class that has the higher skill cap.

 

In regards to gearing up, set bonuses are not as good as the extra stats from modable gear, so when choosing WH pieces start by taking all of the ones with good(power/surge) enhancements.

 

You are either a BW's employee, just plain ignorant or both. Nuff said!

Edited May 7, 2012 by blokey

[MidichIorian]

I've been doing fine since 1.2. My survivability has gone down but in terms of sustained DPS I'm on the same level as before.

 

In a competitve enviroment I wouldnt be of much use without proper support but it seems like 99 % of the players in normal WZ'es don't know how to properly play their classes so I'm only having problem with four or so players on a 1 vs 1 basis. The people I have a problem with:

 

*Two juggs. Not sure if my problems steam from them being juggs or if they're simply good players.

*One pyro. Not sure what he's doing differently from other pyros but the DPS output on that guy is insane.

*Operative. That guy always catches me in a worst-case-scenario . That's where his strenght is so I'm not sure how it would play out if we decided to 1 vs 1 in the Den and I knew someone would sneak up on me.

*Sentinel on the other faction. The main problem here is that he always has a pocket healer, one that always has its CC break up so I've never been able to CC him for long. I would of course do a lot better if it hadnt been for the healer and I dont expect to be able to take on someone, regardless of class, with a healer but it's still silly how fast this sentinel bursts me down.

 

All are examples of players who really know how to make the most of their classes so in the bigger picture I'm not that worried. Once ranked is released I'll have a healer too which means that I'll will be able to handle those initial bursts and then make use of my utility.

 

But yeah, it seems like our class didnt benefit from the change in expertise as much as other classes. I'm not calling for a buff or nerf of other classes but I wouldnt mind of they reset the expertise settings.

Edited May 7, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Nostrom]

They won't reset expertise. The developers caved in to DPSers and gave them what they wanted. If you leveled a 50 healer, especially a Sorcerer, it's best to just re-roll or find another game.

[MidichIorian]

They won't reset expertise. The developers caved in to DPSers and gave them what they wanted. If you leveled a 50 healer, especially a Sorcerer, it's best to just re-roll or find another game.

I have a couple of other chars too but for one or another reason I've always prefered the sorc/sage class. I absolutely hate bounty hunters/troopers but the melee classes are ok so I play as a shadow and tankassin too from time to time. Edited May 8, 2012 by MidichIorian

[Numerii]

 

Also if you don't mind sharing, did you feel the need to change your keybindings post 1.2?

 

Also (last question), I generally mouse turn and move by clicking left and right mouse button, but it seems like many of the better sorcs actually still use wasd or esdf for movement. Is this because mobility and castable spells while moving are not major issues for Sorc as opposed to say a Marauder?

 

Nothing about my playstyle has changed at all since 1.2. I lost instant Chain Lightnings, that's it. Turn smart camera off and learn to hold down a movement button while tapping other buttons. I guess if your keybinds are set up in such a way that you can't reach your instants while holding down your movement buttons then you might consider changing them.

[Bpotux]

Post here. There are lots of sorcs that are doing fine in 1.2 and willing to help those that want to improve. Ask questions on gearing, stats, spec, and playstyle or anything else.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOod5Ag02bc

[kitsinni]

If only you guys understood the concept of balance

 

under powered vs over powered.

 

If you have to spend more effort to win than another class does then your class is under powered or the other class if over powered

 

If you have to spend more effort to win than any other class, then it is your class that is under powered.

 

We are on the bottom and grossly under powered.

 

Or .. shocking concept alert .. classes are different and not everyone is supposed to be good at the same thing and they take changes of style to master.

[RaugMoss]

Honestly, my impression of the video is: You are good support, good skilled player who knows where he have to be in every stage of encounter. Your team is very good and skilled people, so as you... But, i haven't seen nothing new. I don't know who your opponents were, but as for me, their were acting like noobs. No one was trying to kill you during 2 rounds at all. I don't know why it is. People were just running around completely ignoring healing and shielding sorc... It's odd... Just once opponents decided to kill you, and they've done it without any problem. 6-9 seconds and you're dead, as the rest of sorcs in 1.2... You wrote right words about kiting, shielding etc. but it's not a solution of the problems sorcs have in 1.2. I'm doing the same, but if I have mara or sin on me - I'm 90% dead. All I seen it's something like "find yourself a good team who will guard and heal you, and tanking, to you stay out of enemies sight". No offense. You're good. But I think in wz like this most people wouldn't expect any problems.

As for me, I've found my own solution. I respeced into 0/10/31. Still have trouble with sins and maras, have no burst at all, expecting lack of force, but often I can survive till backup comes.

 

This.

 

It saddens me to see that a juggernaut can both contribute to the team as much as a sorcerer in cc/protection aspects and deal insane damage and survive much, much longer. I play ranged casters in every MMO but also try out, even max out some melee/ranged/stealth classes to better understand them. With 1.2, the dps sorcerers aren't in a good position i think. I mainly can see this with my juggernaut alt. I tend to play melee classes ok, but I think I'm in a healthy position with ranged classes, but still the ease of killing people, protecting/capping nodes, harrassing healers with the juggernaut is too good compared to doing these with the sorcerer. Plus, its viable in 1v1 too, doesn't require you to burn many cooldowns to win a 1v1. A sorcerer dps, if more than 1 (yes even 2 is bad), drags the team down a bit, will be seen clearly with rateds, don't worry.

 

But healing-wise i tend to disagree with the forum qqers. Try 27/14 or some other hybrids or grab good teammates for revivification spec, you'll excel and contribute solidly. Coupled in with a Merc healer or operative, you'll heal loads, keep ppl alive and be a thorn in the opposition's side, even if you are kiting them, since while you are kiting, your teammates kill those who are disturbing you.

 

Force lightning I think needs that nerf taken back (crit and damage), creeping terror needs a serious damage buff, and we need only 1 defensive cooldown which reduces the damage done to us, because come on, bubbles are on everyone, not just us...

Not to mention that the lightning spec is trash on its own at the moment, both for PVE and PVP. No class has a tree which is THAT trash. Or wait, lethality for operatives, but that's about it...

[Lansodw]

Not to mention that the lightning spec is trash on its own at the moment, both for PVE and PVP. No class has a tree which is THAT trash. Or wait, lethality for operatives, but that's about it...

 

Isn't there a thread about a lightning sorc that is destroying the charts in 16 man PVE encounters? I was surprised as well, but supposedly he's putting up very good numbers and actually far better than any of the simcraft seem to predict.

 

It may turn out to be the dominant PVE dps tree for sorcs if the guys numbers hold up.

[Sinaii]

Biowar need to change the madness tree to make it playable as lightning tree is.

 

For now this tree is just a pain in the *** to play due to force lack too fast.

 

But bioware doesn't care so who care

[Rayla_Felana]

I was PVPing last night and in Huttball and Voidstar, i kept bumping into the same Juggernaut, it was ridiculous, my jolt didn't work, stuns didn't work, knockback which I had specced into didn't work, and he could kill me off the bat, not even the blinding effect from my bubble popping stopped him, what the hell is going on?

[_Minmaxer_]

I was PVPing last night and in Huttball and Voidstar, i kept bumping into the same Juggernaut, it was ridiculous, my jolt didn't work, stuns didn't work, knockback which I had specced into didn't work, and he could kill me off the bat, not even the blinding effect from my bubble popping stopped him, what the hell is going on?

 

Juggs can talent so that their charge makes them immune to impairing effects. You can tell this is active by the glowing gold shields circling them.

[Ghalthos]

I would simply like to applaud the OP and the other helpful players in this thread. Attempting to create something where helpful and constructive discussions can take place is a refreshing change on these forums.

 

I am surprised more people are not taking advantage of this and would rather continue to complain instead of accepting that others may have things to teach them.

 

I do not play a sorc/ sage (yet), and stumbled across this thread in an effort to do more research on other classes. I can however comment on the previous topic of Veng Juggs. Whenever a Veng Jugg leaps, force throws at the end of his Unstoppable duration, and leaps again he has commited a lot of his mobility resources to gain those 8 seconds of CC/ knockback immunity.

 

If you can mitigate some of the damage during these 8 seconds, you should have him at a disadvantage.

 

Also most Juggs will try and save Force Choke to use it as an interrupt once he has applied Impale DoT, Force Scream DoT, and Shatter DoT. This way you are eating all that DoT damage as well as the Force Choke damage (which in itself is negligible.) for the choke duration. If he is able to do this while also stopping your speed boost, this is the optimal situation for him.

 

If you can bait him into an early force choke, you can take away one of the best uses for this ability that he has.

[Ghalthos]

Juggs can talent so that their charge makes them immune to impairing effects. You can tell this is active by the glowing gold shields circling them.

 

Also, unless the color of my game is jacked up, Unstoppable shows on Juggs as a red shield and on a Guardian as a light blue shield.

[Nostrom]

I struggled badly after 1.2 with the double hit of a nerf to both our abilities and to Expertise's effect on dps/heals. I'm not happy and un-subbed, but if they help PvP healing Sorcs, I would consider coming back.

I played with lots of specs after 1.2 trying to find something that worked, Full Corruption seems good if your with a strong team, but I find this spec better for pugging as I get a lot more CC and still can single target heal effectively. Bubbles go on everyone constantly:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhMRMdMzZfobrzRbZ0M.1

Edited May 9, 2012 by Nostrom

[Rayla_Felana]

Juggs can talent so that their charge makes them immune to impairing effects. You can tell this is active by the glowing gold shields circling them.

 

Well am I the only one that thinks that is massively overpowered, considering that would give Juggs the insta-kill against something like a Sorc? unless the Sorc tried to escape?