Marauders your days are numbered and u know it :)

[Xerain]

Most being "majority of m y damaging spells."

 

and that 4k death field is with full cooldowns popped and adrenasl on most targets. We do not have a "bloodthirst" type ability. and yes - I hate that juggs/Guardians can do that execute as well. I can't stand it, it makes me rage.

 

You also just listed we have to spec into a tree that gets absolutely **** on by Marauders as a potential way to combat you - Stuns are not gap closers. The backlash shield talent, and bindings, are within the lightning tree. If you're 31 pt Lightning youre asking to die to marauders/sentinels anwyay. If you have either of those talents as a hybrid well..we're still playing a hybrid. That's saying we shouldnt play 31pt Specs, which I kinda hate for an MMO.

 

I'm done with this discussion, you fail to actually understand Sorc mechanics whereas I make a point to research Marauder mechanics. The

 

Kinda funny because a Sage is running around on my server with the bubble talent and it's hard as hell to keep on him because of that bubble popping and him running away. You stunning to get away is an escape. You fail to see your class mechanics and where a strength lies.

[Xerain]

I'm sure you killed them anyways with your pvp talents and skills and knowledge.

 

naw he was able to run into a pack of people made me a sad panda cause i coulda had that kill.

[Kiyoma]

Right, now we have delved into whats your rating. How is this relevant, aside from epeen measuring? Sure it notes skill of the individual, but if your telling me 25 seconds of straight CC on a target with no downtime inbetween the CC's occuring only in the 2600 brackets, (which truth be told I never did reach, as I always deviated between 2200-2400 give or take) I call shenanigans. You have never, ever CC chained someone for 25 seconds straight. Post that craziness on the WoW forums and check out the response. If this were an occuring situation, Arena would not be competitive at all. 25 seconds of downtime on a healer, gurantees someone is dieing everytime. I don't have time to syphon thru each classes abilties that break/prevent CC, but between those abilities, dispels, and trinket uses, you have never CC chained a person for 25 straight seconds. I wash myself of this conversation.

 

...it does happen, sir. If you dont want to believe me, that's cool. It may not always be "25" seconds, but 20s CC chains are not uncommon at all. hell, Polymorph into blind is already 16s right there, add in a deep freeze, that's 21. And there's a reason why a multitude of arena players are not currently active - and that is actually one of the reasons. This past season and S10 have been some of the least active seasons to date, due to everyone having these crazy amounts of CCs. IIRC you said you didnt play in Cata, so...yeah. I'm discussing the Cata model - WoTLK it may not have happened given the nature of the nuke fest that was lategame WoTLK - but it does happen in Cataclysm. Sorry.

[Blloodbane]

Kinda funny because a Sage is running around on my server with the bubble talent and it's hard as hell to keep on him because of that bubble popping and him running away. You stunning to get away is an escape. You fail to see your class mechanics and where a strength lies.

 

OMG Bubble stuns suck cus they are AOE... so if they have bubble stuns you can have 6 floating AOE stuns running around like time bombs... god i hate that.... LOL... annoying as all can get...

[Xerain]

OMG Bubble stuns suck cus they are AOE... so if they have bubble stuns you can have 6 floating AOE stuns running around like time bombs... god i hate that.... LOL... annoying as all can get...

 

Lol and they barely fill any resolve! Everytime i see that flash of light from them i'm like oh GAH >.<

[Kiyoma]

Kinda funny because a Sage is running around on my server with the bubble talent and it's hard as hell to keep on him because of that bubble popping and him running away. You stunning to get away is an escape. You fail to see your class mechanics and where a strength lies.

 

So, you break bubble - youre stunned for 2s and he gets that far away from you? Alright. So then you charge, and he stuns you - You're not at full resolve, can force cloak at the end of the stun and hes done no damage.

 

You keep going back to this whole "running" thing. I also seem to notice at this point that hes used 2-3 of his main cooldowns to deal with you, one being a 30s and another being a 60s, yet to start this youve used what, one 12s charge?

 

You still fail to see the issue here, I guess. I am spec'd for that talent in a lot of my specs, I just dont particularly like it. Trust me, I know how the mechanic works. You fail to have any idea how we work, so please don't try to correct me on Sorcerer class mechanics. as I said earlier, you just listed tools from two different specs.

[Kiyoma]

Lol and they barely fill any resolve! Everytime i see that flash of light from them i'm like oh GAH >.<

 

you're trolling. I know you're trolling. It's half a resolve bar.

 

conversation null and void. either troll, or simply misinformed/ignorant.

[Blloodbane]

Lol and they barely fill any resolve! Everytime i see that flash of light from them i'm like oh GAH >.<

 

They should nerf that!!!

[Xerain]

So, you break bubble - youre stunned for 2s and he gets that far away from you? Alright. So then you charge, and he stuns you - You're not at full resolve, can force cloak at the end of the stun and hes done no damage.

 

You keep going back to this whole "running" thing. I also seem to notice at this point that hes used 2-3 of his main cooldowns to deal with you, one being a 30s and another being a 60s, yet to start this youve used what, one 12s charge?

 

You still fail to see the issue here, I guess. I am spec'd for that talent in a lot of my specs, I just dont particularly like it. Trust me, I know how the mechanic works. You fail to have any idea how we work, so please don't try to correct me on Sorcerer class mechanics. as I said earlier, you just listed tools from two different specs.

 

I didn't say Sorcs had all those things in 1. I said you had the possibility.

 

A good marauder doesn't start the fight with a charge so shows what you know about marauder class mechanics. You still have a knock back, you have a sprint, you have a slow, you have to tools to get away you're just denying the fact that you don't.

[Xerain]

you're trolling. I know you're trolling. It's half a resolve bar.

 

conversation null and void. either troll, or simply misinformed/ignorant.

 

it's 2 seconds so thus 200 resolve out of 1000. that is 1/5 sir not half. so GG.

[Blloodbane]

you're trolling. I know you're trolling. It's half a resolve bar.

 

conversation null and void. either troll, or simply misinformed/ignorant.

 

Wait Wait, you come in here spouting all sort of false facts about Mara/Sents because you got pwnt by one and you call HIM trolling?

 

I am going to spell it out for people, Mara/Sents are mage killers, aka light armor... with that said, assassins can still do well against Mara/Sents if played well...especially if they are tankassasins...

[ChaosDogg]

...it does happen, sir. If you dont want to believe me, that's cool. It may not always be "25" seconds, but 20s CC chains are not uncommon at all. hell, Polymorph into blind is already 16s right there, add in a deep freeze, that's 21. And there's a reason why a multitude of arena players are not currently active - and that is actually one of the reasons. This past season and S10 have been some of the least active seasons to date, due to everyone having these crazy amounts of CCs. IIRC you said you didnt play in Cata, so...yeah. I'm discussing the Cata model - WoTLK it may not have happened given the nature of the nuke fest that was lategame WoTLK - but it does happen in Cataclysm. Sorry.

 

It's moreso that the nature of most of the cc is instant and unavoidable than the sheer amount of cc. And you are right long cc chains like that can and do happen. Instant cc on healer which isn't even hard to setup like deep fear cs is already 17 secs. If the mage can land deep sheep it's even longer. And you did see some of infinite cc chains in s8 (it was called MLD on RoV).

 

SWTOR suffers from the problem though that all the cc is instant and takes no real setup. And if someone just randomly spams crap like they do in wz all the time, you can't even cc the target because it's on full resolve. But I still think there's some skill factor there, for example, if you want to keep them ccd as much as possible or leave them low enough that you need to apply cc at the correct time. I guess it fullfills its role as something easy to understand for beginners (no DR types) and it prevents someone being chain ccd too much. TTK needs to change though.

[Yescek]

........tbh that spec is still terrible.

 

I'd beg to differ, at least until you provide some clarification.

 

I've run Carnage since EGA, enjoyed it the whole time and now more than ever. The whole point of it is to nail somebody to the floor so that the better DPS can roll over them. And 1 vs 1 against light to medium targets I can shred pretty well. With the predation changes, *I* am now Ball Carrier Prime. In terms of overall utility, I would agree with you. In terms of OVERALL DPS, I would also have a tendency to agree as well.

 

If it suits you, please clarify how the spec is "terrible". My experiences have been to the contrary, even when you compare pre-1.2 to when I was rolling Annihilation last month.

[Xerain]

I'd beg to differ, at least until you provide some clarification.

 

I've run Carnage since EGA, enjoyed it the whole time and now more than ever. The whole point of it is to nail somebody to the floor so that the better DPS can roll over them. And 1 vs 1 against light to medium targets I can shred pretty well. With the predation changes, *I* am now Ball Carrier Prime. In terms of overall utility, I would agree with you. In terms of OVERALL DPS, I would also have a tendency to agree as well.

 

If it suits you, please clarify how the spec is "terrible". My experiences have been to the contrary, even when you compare pre-1.2 to when I was rolling Annihilation last month.

 

It feels a lot more squishy then the other two specs because well it is. The burst window for it is pretty bad and Gore/precision strike probably needs some reworking. Sure you can gain 1 rage every 6 seconds with blood frenzy but i always felt rage generation was sub par with the lack of a 0m leap and the -3 seconds on battering assault just doesn't do it for the spec. If the spec hadn't of switched so much since beta and stayed the same i'd say it'd be up to par but in it's current form naw.

[Kiyoma]

it's 2 seconds so thus 200 resolve out of 1000. that is 1/5 sir not half. so GG.

 

it doesn't work like that, sir.

 

8s whirlwind = 800 resolve.

 

4s Stun = 800 resolve.

 

but, thats all I have left to add. done here.

 

nor did I ever say someone starts a fight with charge, fyi.

[Inhibition]

...it does happen, sir. If you dont want to believe me, that's cool. It may not always be "25" seconds, but 20s CC chains are not uncommon at all. hell, Polymorph into blind is already 16s right there, add in a deep freeze, that's 21. And there's a reason why a multitude of arena players are not currently active - and that is actually one of the reasons. This past season and S10 have been some of the least active seasons to date, due to everyone having these crazy amounts of CCs. IIRC you said you didnt play in Cata, so...yeah. I'm discussing the Cata model - WoTLK it may not have happened given the nature of the nuke fest that was lategame WoTLK - but it does happen in Cataclysm. Sorry.

 

And we're back to my number of 16 seconds. No one person is going to eat a full sheep, a full blind, then sit in a full deep freeze. That is a mistake someone of your "caliber" of skill should recognize Not to do. You're pretty much letting the other team win if you were to sit thru all 3 of those CC's without using your trinket, or an iceblock, bubble etc. I have played in Cataclysm, and I quit for the same reason Reckful and others did, not because the same CC system that has been in place, but because Rated Battlegrounds netted better gains then arena for arena gear essentially replacing the need to do serious games at all. I quit just before Firelands came out. If your telling me between then and now that people sit thru 3 full duration CC's without reacting at all, I call shenanigans.

[Yescek]

It feels a lot more squishy then the other two specs because well it is. The burst window for it is pretty bad and Gore/precision strike probably needs some reworking. Sure you can gain 1 rage every 6 seconds with blood frenzy but i always felt rage generation was sub par with the lack of a 0m leap and the -3 seconds on battering assault just doesn't do it for the spec. If the spec hadn't of switched so much since beta and stayed the same i'd say it'd be up to par but in it's current form naw.

 

I'll agree that Gore/PS are FAR too short in duration, but that can be overcome by smart playing. In terms of Rage Generation, I find that managing it isn't that big of a deal which I would also attribute to semi-intelligent playing. I'd consider myself decent, but there'll always be guys like Shinryu who seem to always do better. I'll add to that that I take full Cloak Of Carnage, so that's probably why I'm fine on rage. I do have to use Assault every now and then, but that's not necessarily a bad thing owing to the fact that sometimes I need to wait for someone's defensives to drop. In terms of being squishy, I took that as a given when I picked the class to begin with. I was under the impression that it was par for the course owing to our most godly DPS. With the predation changes, it no longer matters that I'm squishy. If I'm about to die, I'll just poof on ya. (Camo + Pred) Granted, that doesn't stop people from picking me back up, but in LoS heavy WZ's like Huttball and VS the only two cases in which I should ever die is if either I ****ed up the escape or someone managed to stun/mez me when my CC break is on CD. If it's not on CD, then it was 100% my fault for dying. Granted, this means I lose out on potential DPS yes. It also means that I can effectively scout for my team and live to bring the heat.

 

Idk, I always saw Marauder as more of an objective chaser anyways and I try to play accordingly. The instances in which I can just turn my brain off and mindlessly kill things are VERY few and far between.

 

Here's a video I made a couple nights ago of my play style. Please understand a few things if you decide to watch it. 1. This was a VS against another Imperial team. The Pubs on Vornskr are generally considered to be more skilled than the Imperials so take any **** ups you see with a grain of salt. 2. I know the majority of the guys on the other team very well, so I was screwing off quite a bit which is why we lost. The point of the video was simply to show my PvP progression and thus is NOT meant to impress. 3. I like dubstep. Eat me.

 

Link:

 

If anyone has any constructive play style or strategy suggestions they'd like to offer, I'd be happy to discuss them in PM's. Thanks in advance.

[criminalheretic]

I don't know as a Marauder/Sentinel player since launch, I think people bring up a very valid point in saying that Marauders are the best pure 1v1 dps class in the game. If we are the best at what we do, then we are clearly OP. I can't wait till they nerf our damage, and add healing and tanking and start giving us ranged attacks.

 

I love how people switch perspectives to make their point. When discussing how OP Maras are now, people inevitably reference a 1v1 fight, when PVP really has very little to do with 1v1 fighting. Sorry but Rock<Paper<Scissors is in fact balance, 1v1 is not a measure of class balance. Classes have roles. Ours is Melee DPS.

 

More specifically, a healer can finish a WZ with 250k healing and 120k damage for a total of 370k 'productive' points. Whereas a Marauder might finish with 300k damage in the same WZ. A 70k deficit.

 

So people want to heal. Which we can't do.

People want to guard. Which we can't do.

People want to attack at range. Which we can't do.

People want to spam AOE. Which we can't do.

People want to out DPS us, which happens all the time. (No one in here is saying Sent/Maras lead the WZ in damage, just that we win 1v1 fights. Snipers, Powertechs, Mercs, Vanguards, Sorcs, Shadows, Sages, and Asssasins can do as much total DPS as Sent/Maras.)

 

So people want to do everything above, AND go toe to toe with us in terms of melee dps. We only do ONE thing well, and people want to be our equal in that, while still being able to do all the other things their classes can do. Yeah, we're totally OP.

 

Saying a Marauder is OP because he kills you in a 1v1 fight, is EXACTLY the same as a Marauder complaining because our crit heals don't heal our whole team. Or whining because we can only attack one person at a time, and only if we are close to them. Melee is a limitation, lack of AOE is a limitation. Our reward for overcoming that limitation is a slightly higher survivablity ratio in a 1v1 fight. But at the end of the day the measure of the POWER of a particular class is how much they contribute to WINNING the WZ. So stop getting butt hurt everytime a Marauder kills your character, sit back at the end of the WZ and realize you had 150% of their total 'production' and feel good about the fact that youre still doing that AFTER your class was nerfd.

Edited April 21, 2012 by criminalheretic
Spelling

[broganthomas]

Hahah, I like being able to predict people crying, I said first it would be about tank assassins and then marauders, and to no surprise look what's happening... I play BH and I get stomped by sentinels but yet I kill most every other class, please nerf!!!!

[Jarfunkz]

I don't know as a Marauder/Sentinel player since launch, I think people bring up a very valid point in saying that Marauders are the best pure 1v1 dps class in the game. If we are the best at what we do, then we are clearly OP. I can't wait till they nerf our damage, and add healing and tanking and start giving us ranged attacks.

 

I love how people switch perspectives to make their point. When discussing how OP Maras are now, people inevitably reference a 1v1 fight, when PVP really has very little to do with 1v1 fighting. Sorry but Rock<Paper<Scissors is in fact balance, 1v1 is not a measure of class balance. Classes have roles. Ours is Melee DPS.

 

More specifically, a healer can finish a WZ with 250k healing and 120k damage for a total of 370k 'productive' points. Whereas a Marauder might finish with 300k damage in the same WZ. A 70k deficit.

 

So people want to heal. Which we can't do.

People want to guard. Which we can't do.

People want to attack at range. Which we can't do.

People want to spam AOE. Which we can't do.

People want to out DPS us, which happens all the time. (No one in here is saying Sent/Maras lead the WZ in damage, just that we win 1v1 fights. Snipers, Powertechs, Mercs, Vanguards, Sorcs, Shadows, Sages, and Asssasins can do as much total DPS as Sent/Maras.)

 

So people want to do everything above, AND go toe to toe with us in terms of melee dps. We only do ONE thing well, and people want to be our equal in that, while still being able to do all the other things their classes can do. Yeah, we're totally OP.

 

Saying a Marauder is OP because he kills you in a 1v1 fight, is EXACTLY the same as a Marauder complaining because our crit heals don't heal our whole team. Or whining because we can only attack one person at a time, and only if we are close to them. Melee is a limitation, lack of AOE is a limitation. Our reward for overcoming that limitation is a slightly higher survivablity ratio in a 1v1 fight. But at the end of the day the measure of the POWER of a particular class is how much they contribute to WINNING the WZ. So stop getting butt hurt everytime a Marauder kills your character, sit back at the end of the WZ and realize you had 150% of their total 'production' and feel good about that fact that youre still doing that AFTER your class was nerfd.

 

No, that is you, not other mara/sents...

[criminalheretic]

No, that is you, not other mara/sents...

 

That doesn't even make sense.

[criminalheretic]

Hahah, I like being able to predict people crying, I said first it would be about tank assassins and then marauders, and to no surprise look what's happening... I play BH and I get stomped by sentinels but yet I kill most every other class, please nerf!!!!

 

My point exactly. "There is a class that can kill me, please make it so no class can kill me."

[Vaipyr]

What really really baffles me in all of this, besides the absurd level of fail it must take in order to call for constant nerfing to classes instead of learning to play (but I digress), is how 'joyful' people seem to be at both the idea of another class getting nerfed or when a class actually does get nerfed. Is this just the ******e factor rearing it's head again or what?

 

Mara's are not OP. They never were. For that matter Sorc's weren't OP either (broken because of a bug, but that's a different matter) yet people were so happy about them getting nerfed. Tracer spam wasn't OP, just stupid so that's a good fix (really who the hell was happy spamming the same attack for 90% of their combat). Still that's different than being OP. Op's were fine after the surge nerf and such, but people still call for nerfs constantly. Why are people both so bad that they must plead for unwarranted nerfing and so damned happy if and when it happens?

 

To the guy that was talking to me about arena: I can't comment on late wotlk and cata so you will win any comparison's there (I finally came to my senses and quit giving blizz my money so they could dumb the game down around mid-wotlk and I'm ashamed it took that long). However you even mentioned why in my time with the game RMP was considered the most OP comp in 3's (In 2's it fluctuated but some combo of RMP classes were always insanely successful, even if it was double rogue lulziness). It had no hard counter and stood ground vs any comp equally well (when played by skilled players).

 

No other comp can really claim that (again, in my time playing, could be different now). Mancleave, spellcleave, zerker rush, deep freeze, etc. They all had hardcounters to overcome. Severe balancing issues that fluctuated and dictated how stacked the field was for them (either for or against). RMP stayed consistant, even through BC around the time the great druid debacle got sorted out (and double glaives started appearing).

 

Also I have to toss out that even with your numbers of 16s cc locks (which you know are completely plausible) are quite a bit longer than we have in swtor so the point about people conveniently forgetting how much worse the CC was in WoW holds true still. Here you MAY have an 8s cc lock. In WoW you could expect double that frequently and depending on your comp sometimes 20s or more.

[aesirize]

 

Please, i beg you, no i pay you to teach me how to do that.

I swear i'll pay you if u teach me how to ever, ever, even a single time getting my Dispatch to 7k.

 

But let's recap, Assasins Execute move (the same thing as our Disptach/Vicious Throw) was at 30% health or below ever since, ours just got up there.

An Execute skill, is there to do exactly that, the finishing blow.

Just it hardly ever does that, it has to crit to actually do that.

If my Dispatch crits on geared players for 3.5 - 4k thats awesome, and hey i can only use it below 30% HP, where is the problem.

The Assasin equivalent has been doing that all the time, ever seen a complaint about that? Cause i didn't.

You can yell all day long how strong our defensive CD's are and most likely everyone will agree with that, but if you honestly think that Dispatch/Vicious Throw is anything even close to an issue, you got bigger problems than thinking some class is OP dude.

 

um you realize your quoting an Assassin's finisher move, which is melee only. Yours is 10m range. a melee with a short ranged finisher doesnt seem odd?

 

Assassinate

 

or the fact that a marauders defensive cooldowns are on par, for the most part, with a tanks cooldowns?

Edited April 22, 2012 by aesirize

[Xerain]

um you realize your quoting an Assassin's finisher move, which is melee only. Yours is 10m range. a melee with a short ranged finisher doesnt seem odd?

 

Assassinate

 

or the fact that a marauders defensive cooldowns are on par, for the most part, with a tanks cooldowns?

 

you do realize that assassins have more ranged attacks than melee right? That doesn't seem odd?