Agooz Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ok tonight I finished an HM Raid, and I queue quickly for a WZ to get one more WIN for the daily. I was tired, and just wanted to get it done fast. Novare Coast pops and I was like crap, I dont feel like running around in circles. I enter the WZ and I recognize some names, and I feel better. Ok we got this. Pumped up, I charge, take east, then rush west, go against 2, win and take west. In short, we win and I am happy that I am going to bed. Scoreboard pops, and I am top damage/kills/medals. I was like cool, but it's not like it is rare for me or pretty much any pyro to be in the top 2. Then as I am leaving the WZ, I look at my awesome cool looking War Hero augment set, because I cant help it, then I realize, I havent switched to my PvP gear!!! Really made me scratch my head. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosimoo Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Happened to me too, except I failed more than usual then realised it was because I was in PvE gear. Switched to PvP gear and still failed. I fail. I'm really disillusioned with PvP since 1.2. I rerolled from Merc to PT, so have Recruit gear, and no idea what spec to play. Considering trying the Mav spec, but then I need to either repurchase dps gear (I got the Supercommando set) or grind grind grind for the BM dps gear. Meh >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assaultrooper Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ok tonight I finished an HM Raid, and I queue quickly for a WZ to get one more WIN for the daily. I was tired, and just wanted to get it done fast. Novare Coast pops and I was like crap, I dont feel like running around in circles. I enter the WZ and I recognize some names, and I feel better. Ok we got this. Pumped up, I charge, take east, then rush west, go against 2, win and take west. In short, we win and I am happy that I am going to bed. Scoreboard pops, and I am top damage/kills/medals. I was like cool, but it's not like it is rare for me or pretty much any pyro to be in the top 2. Then as I am leaving the WZ, I look at my awesome cool looking War Hero augment set, because I cant help it, then I realize, I havent switched to my PvP gear!!! Really made me scratch my head. LOL happened to me too but when I was trying out shieldtech O.O Fairly reasonable damage and great survival. It felt seriously as If expertise didnt matter that much if at all.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Ok tonight I finished an HM Raid, and I queue quickly for a WZ to get one more WIN for the daily. I was tired, and just wanted to get it done fast. Novare Coast pops and I was like crap, I dont feel like running around in circles. I enter the WZ and I recognize some names, and I feel better. Ok we got this. Pumped up, I charge, take east, then rush west, go against 2, win and take west. In short, we win and I am happy that I am going to bed. Scoreboard pops, and I am top damage/kills/medals. I was like cool, but it's not like it is rare for me or pretty much any pyro to be in the top 2. Then as I am leaving the WZ, I look at my awesome cool looking War Hero augment set, because I cant help it, then I realize, I havent switched to my PvP gear!!! Really made me scratch my head. LOL Did you recognize the names on the other team? I've tested dueling against BM geared and Expertise makes a huge difference against BM/Some war hero, but less against recruit. I mean let's say you have 0 expertise in your rakata/black hole. You will do some more dam and have more end then me, but i'm taking 18% less and doing 21% more (roughly not logged in right now for exact numbers). Let's say in same time you do 24k, but you only do about 19680 to me. In same time I only do before expertise calc 18k, i do 21780. Now these are made up numbers, but expertise is important against warhero/bm gear, less so against recruit. I mean i've rolled 5v1 before because everyone was in pve no pvp gear (but the pve wasn't rakata) since 1.2. I hate when they are on my team, because all pubs q'ing are BM (small pub pop, and we go against 2 full premades from this 1 guild a bunch of times) and a lot of imps are also. So when my team is all recruit or no pvp gear, I know it's going to be less likely to win, cause they are just going to get blown up. The only game I can solo win a bunch is HB, cause of grapple/carb in fire near their side, HO to goal line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Did you recognize the names on the other team? I've tested dueling against BM geared and Expertise makes a huge difference against BM/Some war hero, but less against recruit. I mean let's say you have 0 expertise in your rakata/black hole. You will do some more dam and have more end then me, but i'm taking 18% less and doing 21% more (roughly not logged in right now for exact numbers). Let's say in same time you do 24k, but you only do about 19680 to me. In same time I only do before expertise calc 18k, i do 21780. Now these are made up numbers, but expertise is important against warhero/bm gear, less so against recruit. I mean i've rolled 5v1 before because everyone was in pve no pvp gear (but the pve wasn't rakata) since 1.2. I hate when they are on my team, because all pubs q'ing are BM (small pub pop, and we go against 2 full premades from this 1 guild a bunch of times) and a lot of imps are also. So when my team is all recruit or no pvp gear, I know it's going to be less likely to win, cause they are just going to get blown up. The only game I can solo win a bunch is HB, cause of grapple/carb in fire near their side, HO to goal line. No, I meant I recognized names on my team, meaning I had good players to get the win. Oh I understand the numbers, and I know it is important. I just found it funny that I got "similar" outcome in pve gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOpf Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) No, I meant I recognized names on my team, meaning I had good players to get the win. Oh I understand the numbers, and I know it is important. I just found it funny that I got "similar" outcome in pve gear. The opposing team had poorly geared players ;P. I have noticed when I face a premade of very well geared players my damage drops dramatically. On Ajunta Pall, which is a great server, the really good imps are fewer groups. There are two really good pvp guilds. One really big pvp guild, and the rest are pugs. On the republic side there are 4-5 really really good pvp guilds. One of them is Taugrim's guild, though I like to point out to him that he has never been in the premade I faced. I am have only 950, and am saving up for the two piece Combat Medic Pants/Boots so I can get the rest, but killing a War Hero takes significantly longer than killing anyone else. I like to take my titles off this way the repubs think I am non-geared new pvp player so they will only send 1 or 2 to face me. I noticed when I wore my Champion/BM title I was fighting larger groups. Edited April 20, 2012 by TheOpf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 The opposing team had poorly geared players ;P. I have noticed when I face a premade of very well geared players my damage drops dramatically. On Ajunta Pall, which is a great server, the really good imps are fewer groups. There are two really good pvp guilds. One really big pvp guild, and the rest are pugs. On the republic side there are 4-5 really really good pvp guilds. One of them is Taugrim's guild, though I like to point out to him that he has never been in the premade I faced. I am have only 950, and am saving up for the two piece Combat Medic Pants/Boots so I can get the rest, but killing a War Hero takes significantly longer than killing anyone else. I like to take my titles off this way the repubs think I am non-geared new pvp player so they will only send 1 or 2 to face me. I noticed when I wore my Champion/BM title I was fighting larger groups. At least your not recognized.. People see doofensmirtz and i'm focus'd most of the game. This stems from being one of first BM's and pvp'ing since launch. Even if I wear my Containimation Officer title or skirmisher and not conquerer/BM I'm still focus'd. I used to tell people not to cheer/clap/etc me before the match began, cause when they did I got focus'd even sooner. Withoout that I can sneak around a bit befoer I'm noticed. With 1.2 and people more focus'd on objectives it's let up some, but not much. People know that I can solo turn around a HB match or w/e so will keep me occupied and let the other 5 of their players own the 7 of my pugs. I hate solo q'ing but I have no choice most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Nah if your not using expertise your giving the other person a huge advantage. Now we still have a lot of peeps still not getting with the program but if you face someone in full BM gear to your full PVE set you know it in an instant. Plus 20-25% increase in damage and +15-18% damage reduction to you is a lot to overcome... Edited April 20, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agooz Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 ...... Plus 20-25% increase in damage and +15-18% damage reduction to you is a lot to overcome... While I know that expertise is valuable, these numbers are not very accurate at all. Having an extra 300Aim, about 3500health, more crit, 8% more damage to RS, etc...do shrink these gaps. I am not saying that it is a wash by any means, but still a smaller gap than what you are showing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) While I know that expertise is valuable, these numbers are not very accurate at all. Having an extra 300Aim, about 3500health, more crit, 8% more damage to RS, etc...do shrink these gaps. I am not saying that it is a wash by any means, but still a smaller gap than what you are showing. What it shows is just what I get to my damage regardless what you get or do to your stats period. The only true counter is expertise yes you will pick up aim which amounts to a factor on your damage and will all be reduced by 17% when you face me as I will do an additional 25% increase in my damage to you. I do encourage my opponents to not stack expertise it really is cool to see those big hits lol... Edited April 20, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 What it shows is just what I get to my damage regardless what you get or do to your stats period. The only true counter is expertise yes you will pick up aim which amounts to a factor on your damage and will all be reduced by 17% when you face me as I will do an additional 25% increase in my damage to you. I do encourage my opponents to not stack expertise it really is cool to see those big hits lol... What he's saying is tthat stat 25% dam inc, 18% dam reduction is offset some by the higher Endurance/aim/power/surge/etc on PVE gear. So even if your doing 25% more, let's say you dam is 1k so your doing 1250. But in pve gear it might be 1150, so instead of doing 250 more you only doing 100 more then yhour pve gear. These numbers are just to show the gap difference. The actual gap may be higher or lower. Also endurance so if you take 18% less, at 18k, you'll be able to take ~3.5k more. But you might have 2k more in endurance, so only 1.5k difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Dude I completely understand what he is saying and I stick to what I stated its simple math your pve additions will not offset my increases but like I said the math is simple your pve bonus has to offset my damage increase and damage reduction via a single stat. Your changes do not and will not make up the difference in gearing giving me a substantial edge when the fight begins. Expertise vs expertise prettyy much cancels each other out other stats do not ergo we are are steam rolling and focus killing those without expertise faster than ever before.... So yes enter a battle ground full pve geared then come out stating such and such class is OP like many not realizing its more and more the difference in expertise than anything... We call it out get x his gear has zip lol... Edited April 20, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Dude I completely understand what he is saying and I stick to what I stated its simple math your pve additions will not offset my increases but like I said the math is simple your pve bonus has to offset my damage increase and damage reduction via a single stat. Your changes do not and will not make up the difference in gearing giving me a substantial edge when the fight begins. Expertise vs expertise prettyy much cancels each other out other stats do not ergo we are are steam rolling and focus killing those without expertise faster than ever before.... So yes enter a battle ground full pve geared then come out stating such and such class is OP like many not realizing its more and more the difference in expertise than anything... We call it out get x his gear has zip lol... Oh I totally agree. Sorry your first reply made it seem like that PVE gear made up no gap difference. It makes up some, just not all of it. Totally expertise>all in pvp (however I wear my matrix shard/crited power relic, reasons the + to dam+to dam reduction of 2 BM relics does not equal those 2 in terms of dam and endurance gained.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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