Blood_Burger Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Giving us a decent knock back/push/pull like what is available to every other class wouldn't let us faceroll everything as you claim. It would give us the tools to do what we need to do a little easier however. I do agree with needing a proper force push... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlownSi Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I agree with needing a good push/pull/ etc. That said, I am level 24 right now, combat spec, and having NO issues killing mobs what so ever. I put Zen and Kick both on an easy hotkey buttons, Kick making the biggest difference. I also upgraded T7 early and usually use him. 8 time out of 10 both my companion and myself come out alive and well. I have yet to use Call on the Force, and rarely have to use Saber Ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I do agree with needing a proper force push... ok let me get this right... you want an ability to open a gap for your target. Just about the only thing a sentinel could use is a another gap closer yet you want a gap opener.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemsonalum Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 ok let me get this right... you want an ability to open a gap for your target. Just about the only thing a sentinel could use is a another gap closer yet you want a gap opener.... Yeah i am not quite sure why they want a "push" either. Only thing I can see it used for is knocking someone off a ledge or into the hazards in PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbyun Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 almost at 20, and so far I haven't had any problems suriving through the game playing solo with companion, don't even really have to pop saber ward or call on the force. Things just seem to die pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FobManX Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 You're a melee class. Why the hell would you want an ability that creates a gap between you and your target? Now if Force Push was like a knockdown or something that'd be a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onchas Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 So, I've hit level 33 which is the furthest I've been through Sentinel. I've got more DPS now, more ability to control the flow of a fight. I bought Kera a new light sabre which made a huge difference as she now out DPSes me. The advantage here is it makes MOBS swtich off us depending on what spells I throw. The march through level 20 was not pretty or fun. The predictions that things would get better in 30 and particularly mid-30s are coming to pass. It's "ok" right now. I know a man of lesser integrity would suggest he's gotten better at the rotations, but that just isn't the case. The class is just coming into its own. I was trying to slide through a heroic area, however, and I watched a Sage solo a same-level Champion and she managed to kill it in a timely fashion and without taking any damage (obviously a healing spec using the companion for primary DPS). There is no way I could have soloed the same guy. That isn't about skill, that isn't about knowing the class, that isn't about getting a rotation down. That's about DPS output vs input. My current beef with the sentinel comes down to risk-reward / effort-reward. Harder class to play but there doesn't seem to be the pay-out for the effort (which breaks one of the fundamental design principles for a game like this - you reward players who take on a harder challenge). In the end, what Sentinel brings to high-end play and PvP will mean people will hold their noses and run through the leveling grind. But as a first-out-the-gate toon, this is just not the way to go. I expect that the class will get "buffed" but if someone were to come to me and ask how that should happen, at the moment I would just say that more equipment improvement rewards and some very minor improvements in the equality of the equipment given in rewards would be helpful. And the ability to make your own stims seems pretty important at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saetun Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Personally, I don't mind the class being harder to play. But fact is, it comes down to effort vs. reward. We put in twice the effort but get the same reward. It's that simple, and it's not right. If we put in twice the effort and came out as the top class, well that would be equal. But that's just not the way it is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 So, I've hit level 33 which is the furthest I've been through Sentinel. I've got more DPS now, more ability to control the flow of a fight. I bought Kera a new light sabre which made a huge difference as she now out DPSes me. The advantage here is it makes MOBS swtich off us depending on what spells I throw. The march through level 20 was not pretty or fun. The predictions that things would get better in 30 and particularly mid-30s are coming to pass. It's "ok" right now. I know a man of lesser integrity would suggest he's gotten better at the rotations, but that just isn't the case. The class is just coming into its own. I was trying to slide through a heroic area, however, and I watched a Sage solo a same-level Champion and she managed to kill it in a timely fashion and without taking any damage (obviously a healing spec using the companion for primary DPS). There is no way I could have soloed the same guy. That isn't about skill, that isn't about knowing the class, that isn't about getting a rotation down. That's about DPS output vs input. My current beef with the sentinel comes down to risk-reward / effort-reward. Harder class to play but there doesn't seem to be the pay-out for the effort (which breaks one of the fundamental design principles for a game like this - you reward players who take on a harder challenge). In the end, what Sentinel brings to high-end play and PvP will mean people will hold their noses and run through the leveling grind. But as a first-out-the-gate toon, this is just not the way to go. I expect that the class will get "buffed" but if someone were to come to me and ask how that should happen, at the moment I would just say that more equipment improvement rewards and some very minor improvements in the equality of the equipment given in rewards would be helpful. And the ability to make your own stims seems pretty important at this point. the problem is if they buff it the players wh oare actually good will be grossly over powered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 then tell me how is it i have had 6 level 50s Sentinels including the one in live right now, i never get out DPSed and i survive just fine. damage is what we are supposed to have and we have some of the best utility in game. The problem is people want wow level easy and that is not this game if you want wow level easy go play wow. If sentinels were testing as bad as the QQ leads you to believe they would of been changed in beta.. Fact is its not a simple class, and you cannot mash buttons and kill everything like you can on a trooper. That is not a bad thing it just means that you need to step up and LEARN TO PLAY, rather then jsut QQing on the fourm More of the same, poor players speaking the same, tired rhetoric. The good thing though is now the game is released, there's hordes of others telling them that Sentinel is fine. I skipped the last six or seven years of MMO gaming. The biggest difference is attitude, I don't lay down because I died a couple times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_b_gross Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I intereviewed for a job as a systems designer for an MMO, and this was one of the questions I was asked-- should there be some classes that are significantly harder to play than others. We talked about it and there were good arguments on both sides, presented by people who were doing this for a living. I haven't played any other classes and I didn't play in beta, so I'm not qualified to weigh in on the specific question of whether Sentinels are underpowered or are too hard to play. I will make 2 observations: (1) If, in theory, it turned out to be the case that Sentinels required more effort and skill to play than other classes, I think that would be great, IF they made that clear when you were choosing your class-- a bit of dialog about it being a particularly hard path, along with a text warning making it clear that they're talking about player skill level, not some in-game story element. (2) I'm really enjoying needing to juggle so many CDs and resources, and would be very sad if they made it any easier. My one request would be a way to track my CDs without need to look at the hot bar-- I'm playing this game because I want to see my character wielding a light saber, not so I can watch a small box gradually turn a different shade. Edited December 20, 2011 by Arzhanin Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onchas Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 the problem is if they buff it the players wh oare actually good will be grossly over powered By tossing some quest rewards with slightly better stats and more upgrade mods during leveling? I don't think that's going to imbalance the game. But with most quest-related boss fights coming down to a few ticks difference, small bumps in stats can help make sure people get through without blowing huge amounts on repairs and stims doing trial and error to get through some of the tougher bosses that other classes would just breeze through. One thing I really didn't appreciate starting out was just how gear-dependent the class is. I didn't get any other character out past level 25 in beta, but I didn't find anything I tried so gear dependent up to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChipHazard Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 ok let me get this right... you want an ability to open a gap for your target. Just about the only thing a sentinel could use is a another gap closer yet you want a gap opener.... Being able to punt other players opens up a large amount of tactical options. Is there a BH or agent camping on a platform? Punt that person down to ground level. Are you fighting two enemies at once? Punt one away or off a cliff etc. It's an incredible PvP tool. One which we lack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Being able to punt other players opens up a large amount of tactical options. Is there a BH or agent camping on a platform? Punt that person down to ground level. Are you fighting two enemies at once? Punt one away or off a cliff etc. It's an incredible PvP tool. One which we lack. sorry but we are the top melee class, everyone else can do more damage form range, there is no real time you would want to use it other then for BS kills from punting off a cliff, as a melee you NEVER want to push your target away from you, you goal is to stay next to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venator-Falco Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 sorry but we are the top melee class, everyone else can do more damage form range, there is no real time you would want to use it other then for BS kills from punting off a cliff, as a melee you NEVER want to push your target away from you, you goal is to stay next to them. Actually I can see where you may want to use force push (Not that it is a class changer) A It could be used as an interrupt, B) If it pushes the target back far enough to force leap in it gives you the opportunity to use the Focus build of that… It would add an other interesting element to play, but nothing earth shattering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChipHazard Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 sorry but we are the top melee class, everyone else can do more damage form range, there is no real time you would want to use it other then for BS kills from punting off a cliff, as a melee you NEVER want to push your target away from you, you goal is to stay next to them. Being able to punt other players around means you can control the battlefield. There are plenty of times where being able to punt someone would be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janglor Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) I think at the end of a the day a decent player on a Sentinel is likely to lose to a decent player on a Commando, or any ranged dps. With comparable skill level, gear, and situational advantage a Sentinel will still be at a major disadvantage because of his/her tool set. We need some type of ranged snare/stun or pull move, and a tweaking of our dps set up and we'd be set. Edited December 20, 2011 by Arzhanin Insulting post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood_Burger Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) ok let me get this right... you want an ability to open a gap for your target. Just about the only thing a sentinel could use is a another gap closer yet you want a gap opener.... Koocking someone back until I'm ready to engage isn't a bad thing... It could also be used as an escape mechanism if need be. Honestly I think the class is fine as is, but Jedi's have force push therefore I want one. Edited December 20, 2011 by Blood_Burger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinalJedi Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 Love the Sentinal, I can see why people say he is underpowered in pvp due to the fact we have no knock backs no slow until 16. But the class is fine in pve and shines later on in levels in pvp. The fact of the matter is that the class is fine but the player isnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I think at the end of a the day a decent player on a Sentinel is likely to lose to a decent player on a Commando, or any ranged dps. With comparable skill level, gear, and situational advantage a Sentinel will still be at a major disadvantage because of his/her tool set. We need some type of ranged snare/stun or pull move, and a tweaking of our dps set up and we'd be set. that is just flat out wrong. sorry but just because they are ranged does not make them a better class. Its your job to get in melee its their job to keep you out of melee, its balance, no-one can stand there and take a sentinel beating on them. sorry but that logic of yous says that all melee in every MMO are inferior to all ranged. That is simply not true at all. Edited December 20, 2011 by Arzhanin Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood_Burger Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 It should also be noted that I don't care about PvP. So I guess from that point of view I have no say in the argument. For PvE at least through level 30, the class seems fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defied Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 So, when is the Sent suppose to become harder to play again? I'm currently level 27 and haven't had any problems at all. Is it around the 30's when this class is suppose to be hard? Because I'm kind of looking forward to it if things get harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) So, when is the Sent suppose to become harder to play again? I'm currently level 27 and haven't had any problems at all. Is it around the 30's when this class is suppose to be hard? Because I'm kind of looking forward to it if things get harder. It never gets hard for someone with common sense and basic reasoning skills. Edited December 20, 2011 by Hizoka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPancho Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 ok im a noob/casual MMO player and even i beat elites with pretty half my health. i just use a stim, pop off both sabre ward, and rebuke, then of course thrown in ur dots when u have 'em available and u should be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derian Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) I think at the end of a the day a decent player on a sentinel is likely to lose to a decent player on a commando, or any ranged dps. With comparable skill level, gear, and situational advantage a sentinel will still be at a major disadvantage because of his/her tool set. We need some type of ranged snare/stun or pull move, and a tweaking of our dps set up and we'd be set. lolol. Commandos are so easy to kill with a SEntinel it isn't even funny. Use your interrupts, nubs. Edited December 20, 2011 by Arzhanin Quoted removed content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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