Why do fresh 50's have the same gear as me

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

Whats the huge advantage in PvP?

 

99% of players are BM. Full BM is attainable in a week of grinding. 2-3 if youre slow and casual + its guaranteed, not chance like the previous system. Now with new update to the WZ comm reward system, itll be even faster.

 

So how is there huge advantage when new PvPers are being given the same gear as everyone else on a silver platter

 

-fuzz

[vimm]

This thread is really depressing.

[iDubstep]

I've made threads about this and about how I think the only equipment a PvP Armor vendor should offer is progressive mod-able armor - more valor for better looking stuff. The balanced playing field would come from every player have access to the exact some PvP Mod Vendor to choose which pieces to put in to their armor.

 

After posting this idea in more detail, which was a very good idea in all modesty if you are looking for balanced PvP in an MMO (the only other issue being skills in the 10 - 49 bracket) I learned a couple things from business savvy members of the community:

 

This game is not about balanced PvP and never will be. It is about long, long and long hours grinding gear because you got roflstomped by someone not necessarily better than you - just better geared. This is what drives subscriptions out for months and motivates the developers. Or from the PvE side of it (which I'm not really familiar with) the group saying "Oooh you're waaay under-geared you can't run this HM/NM with us.

 

The insertion of recruit armor, requirement removal of BM gear and reduced viability of T3 PvE gear is actually a step in the right direction reducing grind time and making PvP a more level playing field. Now people are crying because the crutch they used to hold up their egos is being chipped away at.

Edited April 19, 2012 by iDubstep

[mjohnsonfhk]

Players that are interested in competition would favor an even playing field.

 

It is fair. There is nothing preventing you from getting the same gear i have except for time spent.

 

Bioware is already catering to the casuals by having a 10-49 bracket.

[JustinxDuff]

If you are serious about PvP you should want everyone on the same level. It seems like OP and his supporters got killed by a fresh 50 in equal gear and now are hurt about it.

[Khoraji]

If you are serious about PvP you should want everyone on the same level. It seems like OP and his supporters got killed by a fresh 50 in equal gear and now are hurt about it.

 

Everyone has the same opportunity to get gear. It is no ones fault but theirs if they choose not to get it.

[AAmedeo]

With this arguement that PvP should be based on skill alone, and not gear, why then have levels in the game. Couldn't we just let newly created characters have all the skills? Why put them at a disadvantage of having to work for them?

[Darth_Philar]

It is fair. There is nothing preventing you from getting the same gear i have except for time spent.

 

Bioware is already catering to the casuals by having a 10-49 bracket.

 

Exactly! That's why I get to start with 7 queens in chess, 14 letter tiles in Scrabble, and 1 million monopoly dollars!

 

Wait... what do you mean I don't get to have those advantages? I've played those games longer than you!

[Azareal]

Gear progression is a good thing but you can't handicap fresh 50's just so those who play 10 hours a day can smash them. A fresh 50 in recruit gear is at an disadvantage but not a huge one, this is a good thing. BM gear can be gotten fairly quick but only if they sit and grind WZs to get it, I see no problem here. If you play as much as you say you do then you should be getting WH gear, something that will take a casual player quite some time to get without the ranked system in place. Once again the difference between BM and WH is an advantage to the guy in WH but not an "I win" button, again this is good. Also to have a perfect modded set of BM or WH takes a while to build up and can give some extra advantage if you know what you are doing.

 

I see plenty of advantages for those who are hardcore verses casual players and you should have a fairly large advantage over fresh 50's. Also consider if you are grinding to get BM as a fresh 50 you are probably not purchasing the WZ heal/expertise adrenals, yet another small advantage. Small advantages are fine, you don't need an instant win just because you have more time on your hands.

[DarkDruidSS]

Wow I got ninja modded for proving that DAoC had progression. Guess I am out of this debate.

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

Using logical fallacies to make your argument suggests that you may be the one who is in this "candyland".

 

I'm going to break this down for you one time, and one time only. If you fail to perceive the truth of the matter that is on you. Here you go:

 

Character = Class + Stats + Gear + Abilities

Player = Skill

These statements above reflect the separation of powers. The only aspect of you that is reflected in game is your Skill.

Ergo, Player versus Player = Skill versus Skill

The moment any of the other aspects come into the formula you no longer have player versus player.

I.E. Abilities + Skill versus Abilities + Skill is Character versus Character as your skill is no longer the only determination of victory.

As you add more Character functions into the equation, player skill becomes even less of a determining factor.

 

My perception here is that you don't like PvP, you like CvC. There is nothing wrong with that as the two are completely different meta games (it's like preferring chocolate over vanilla and strawberry) However, when you proceed to name-calling, belittling, or denigrating actual PvPers when they point out that what you like is not what they like and further insult them by taking their correct term and incorrectly applying it to your favored meta game, you cross the line.

 

Apparently i am wrong then. Then i am sorry good sir. What i do is play to win. If im not winning, im not having fun. This probably comes across in my post. I have been a high level competitive FPS gamer since pre-steam CS (although i was no where near 3D, SK and those teams). I dont bother with small facts as the ones you have provided me. I am sure you are right about what you have said because, to be honest, the difference means nothing to me. I play to win. I was given a game that i signed up for. I took it in and paid my dues in grinding to lvl50 not knowing anything. Took my lumps as a fresh 50 not knowing anything. Learned, adapted and changed everything i needed to. Arrogant to say, but i am now one of the best AC on my faction and this is my first MMO (2 months played). Addictive personality and a compulsive need to win = success in SWTOR.

 

Now i come to the foums where i see people complaining about a system that someone like me can so easily adapt to when i have even played an MMO before... Why does everything have to be tailored to you guys? The game is fine the way it is. Its SWTOR, not some other game you guys are trying to make it into. If you dont like it, no one is forcing you to keep paying. Hell, if it changed to what everyone is suggesting with the NO PVP GEAR, id unsub. No one would care, and i wouldnt expect anyone to either. Just would be pathetic of BW to cater to everyones demands and turn SWTOR into a different game

 

-fuzz

[JustinxDuff]

Everyone has the same opportunity to get gear. It is no ones fault but theirs if they choose not to get it.

Exactly, and this is how it should be. Everyone has the same ability to get gear now and it results in an even playing field. OP just wants his handicap back.

[Razuache]

You should be able to defeat a fresh 50 because of your experience and skill, not because of some gear advantage. This is PvP, not PvE. Ideally, all would have the same gear, allowing for fair matches.

 

Thank you ! 100% right to many noobs who rely on gear

[Smilingdeath]

I freaking hate this gear system.

 

People hit 50 and 3 days later have full battlemaster. What's the sense in being equal to a fresh 50 when I've busted my *** getting valor lvl 75?

 

I'd love to see 60 valor required for BM and 70 for war hero gear, seems fair to me.

 

edit: just thought i'd put my thoughts out there, kthx.

 

You are going to be mad at me, I have a Level 34 shadow , and I already have the BM top and bottom ( cant wear it yet, but by the time I reach 50 ill have my full BM gear).

 

plus I love the new legacy system since i have all the buffs for all the classes on my shadow.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted removed content

[Jalez]

I have to lol at this, Dark Age of Camelot which arguably has the best PVP of any MMORPG ever made has NO gear progression. In DAoC yes gear matters, but its easy to get templated max stats and resists through crafters and Pve gear. You dont have to grind for gear, you just go out and do the "realm rank grind" which means in DAoC PvP you "progress" your character by gaining realm rank and earning cool new abilities and spells etc...

 

This makes DAoC highly competitive, to the point of its players being called "hardcore PvP'rs", since 85% of any group/guild you fight in DAoC will have maxed stats and resists, just like your guild does.....which means the PvP fights in DAoC rely on SKILL and SKILL alone to win fights

 

In DAoC there are no players like "Fuzz", since they get roflstomped right out of the game by more skillful players

 

Gear progression is for PVE, get it outta MMo PVP

[alanisUDL]

It is fair. There is nothing preventing you from getting the same gear i have except for time spent.

 

Not everyone has the same amount of "time" available. Therefore, it's not an even playing field. Casuals pay the same amount as those that play this game like a job. We should all want this game to succeed and have as many people PvPing as possible. The only people that really "lose out" when you have no/minimal gear gaps are those that feel that they require this gap to win.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Ellvaan
Removed under final warning

[khalfani]

I don't understand why Bioware changed Battle Master in the first place. The old system was fine - all they had to do was add a quitter debuff and make sure the WZs shut down if the teams were imbalanced.

 

Making Battle Master trivial to get was a very bad move. Also, getting rid of the Champ and Centurion sets and replacing it with the very garbage recruit set was an even worse move. It makes getting Battle Master no big deal - which defeated a whole lot of people's time invested in *key phrase* such a short amount of time. Why make something so hard to get, then negate it's importance so abruptly?

[DarkDruidSS]

I have to lol at this, Dark Age of Camelot which arguably has the best PVP of any MMORPG ever made has NO gear progression. In DAoC yes gear matters, but its easy to get templated max stats and resists through crafters and Pve gear. You dont have to grind for gear, you just go out and do the "realm rank grind" which means in DAoC PvP you "progress" your character by gaining realm rank and earning cool new abilities and spells etc...

 

This makes DAoC highly competitive, to the point of its players being called "hardcore PvP'rs", since 85% of any group/guild you fight in DAoC will have maxed stats and resists, just like your guild does.....which means the PvP fights in DAoC rely on SKILL and SKILL alone to win fights

 

In DAoC there are no players like "Fuzz", since they get roflstomped right out of the game by more skillful players

 

Gear progression is for PVE, get it outta MMo PVP

 

They are going to ninja mod me again for this since I already proved that DAoC has progression. But you are wrong and DAoC has progression with realm ranks/abilities and artifacts. You being RR12 means you don't know the first thing about DAoC really.

 

 

-edit-

OH, nevermind you are a late DAOC player. DAoC used to have more than RR12. I seem to remember it going up to 85 when i was playing Vanguard.

Edited April 19, 2012 by DarkDruidSS

[LarryRow]

Guys, the OP isn't arguing for a gear advantage. He's just saying that it's unfair/irritating that he had to put in so much more playtime to get his good pvp gear compared to the new players. He's sort of correct; in a sense it is unfair.

 

However, look at this way OP: you got to enjoy the game, especially the endgame, for a lot longer than a fresh 50. That's an advantage of fun. You've also had more practice and experience in the 50 bracket.

 

Also, an MMO needs to make the endgame accessible to new players or it won't get any. Do you want to play a game where no new players join?

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

I have to lol at this, Dark Age of Camelot which arguably has the best PVP of any MMORPG ever made has NO gear progression. In DAoC yes gear matters, but its easy to get templated max stats and resists through crafters and Pve gear. You dont have to grind for gear, you just go out and do the "realm rank grind" which means in DAoC PvP you "progress" your character by gaining realm rank and earning cool new abilities and spells etc...

 

This makes DAoC highly competitive, to the point of its players being called "hardcore PvP'rs", since 85% of any group/guild you fight in DAoC will have maxed stats and resists, just like your guild does.....which means the PvP fights in DAoC rely on SKILL and SKILL alone to win fights

 

In DAoC there are no players like "Fuzz", since they get roflstomped right out of the game by more skillful players

 

Gear progression is for PVE, get it outta MMo PVP

 

But, Jalez, im new to DAoC, shouldnt everyone have the same abilities/spells as me?! It should be skilled based, not spell/ability dependent!

 

I demand that DAoC now strip all PvPers of their abilties/spells and hand out abilities/spells to everyone and now we can decide who the best is!

 

-fuzz

[Syylara]

Guys, the OP isn't arguing for a gear advantage. He's just saying that it's unfair/irritating that he had to put in so much more playtime to get his good pvp gear compared to the new players. He's sort of correct; in a sense it is unfair.

 

However, look at this way OP: you got to enjoy the game, especially the endgame, for a lot longer than a fresh 50. That's an advantage of fun. You've also had more practice and experience in the 50 bracket.

 

Also, an MMO needs to make the endgame accessible to new players or it won't get any. Do you want to play a game where no new players join?

 

The other issue a lot of people are missing is they are acting like BM is BiS for PvP still.

 

BM now inhabits the space that Champion used to, it is the middle tier, not the top tier.

 

So the proper comparison would be how long it took to obtain Champion before vs. how long it takes to obtain BM now. The OP can now work towards WH if he's so concerned with being top dog.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Syylara

[BjornK]

I freaking hate this gear system.

 

People hit 50 and 3 days later have full battlemaster. What's the sense in being equal to a fresh 50 when I've busted my *** getting valor lvl 75?

 

I'd love to see 60 valor required for BM and 70 for war hero gear, seems fair to me.

 

edit: just thought i'd put my thoughts out there, kthx.

 

Full BM gear after 3 days - yeahh, right!

I'm a casual player that hitted 50 a week ago. I really love to get better gear, both by PvE and PvP and I spend a couple of hours every night playing the game. 2-3 hours of war zones and 2-3 hours of dailies.

So far I have ben able to buy one (1) piece of BM gear. So far, in the war zones, I haven't met anyone with less hp than myself, I fight the best I can, gets killed a lot of times by superior imps, usually loose the wz, and get 25 commendations every time. No - I'm not really good at pvp but i really try to learn and be better.

It will take me several days for each piece of BM that I want to buy, so don't whine about how easy things are. Maybe it is to you, a full-blown pvp:er that plays 20 hour/day, but not for me.

I don't mind that it will take time because it should take time but the pvp-changes in 1.2 was not good. I'm glad that BW has taken at least one step back - I think it will get people back to the war zones again.

Fighting the best I can and never leaving a war zone (like many other), should reward me something - not zero commendations that happened occasionally when I got thrown in a fight where everyone else had left.

 

/Björn

Edited April 19, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted removed content

[Raific]

It is interesting to read this post that people are gearing up too fast then the one below it about how it takes too long to grind to get BM gear. Perhaps you are both exaggerating? Just a guess! Enjoy playing PVP for what it is and not the trinkets at the end. Your time invested it not about the trophy you wear is about the butts you kicked.

 

4 Step Process to Healthy Gaming

1) BREATH

2) RELAX

3) Go in to the game and have FUN

4) get away from your PC for a short time!

[fuzzDONTEVENTRIP]

Full BM gear after 3 days - yeahh, right!

I'm a casual player that hitted 50 a week ago. I really love to get better gear, both by PvE and PvP and I spend a couple of hours every night playing the game. 2-3 hours of war zones and 2-3 hours of dailies.

So far I have ben able to buy one (1) piece of BM gear. So far, in the war zones, I haven't met anyone with less hp than myself, I fight the best I can, gets killed a lot of times by superior imps, usually loose the wz, and get 25 commendations every time. No - I'm not really good at pvp but i really try to learn and be better.

It will take me several days for each piece of BM that I want to buy, so don't whine about how easy things are. Maybe it is to you, a full-blown pvp:er that plays 20 hour/day, but not for me.

I don't mind that it will take time because it should take time but the pvp-changes in 1.2 was not good. I'm glad that BW has taken at least one step back - I think it will get people back to the war zones again.

Fighting the best I can and never leaving a war zone (like many other), should reward me something - not zero commendations that happened occasionally when I got thrown in a fight where everyone else had left.

 

/Björn

 

I applaud you good sir. Good luck with your endeavors fellow repub! Oh and WZ comms for losing is much higher now (unfortunately) so youll be seeing BM gear sooner even if you do lose.

 

-fuzz

[Sookster]

I freaking hate this gear system.

 

People hit 50 and 3 days later have full battlemaster.

 

I don't buy this, a fresh 50 has 2000 comms, you can buy 3 pieces or 1 1,550 piece (which I don't suggest), complete the 3 win daily for 99 comms, complete the 9 win weekly for 99 comms (should take a couple days) and average 80 comms a match (if it's a win), the 30 kills daily take a while. In 3 days at best you would have half BM, not full, since most pieces costs 1,075 while chest, weapon and offhand costs 1,550 and the cheap pieces are bracer and implants/earpiece.

 

Ha! Another terribad who relies on gear difference to win fights!

 

ROFL!

 

Please QQ more, I enjoy feasting on your tears.

That's because this game's pvp IS gear based.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Sookster