Ion Gas Cylinder Still Broken!

[Rischardo]

Awhile ago, I saw a post on the PT forums that showed a video of how IGC was broken. Now that combat log info is available, I decided to test it myself.

 

I tested IGC on the Boss dummy on my ship and calculated that it has about 35% damage reduction from armor. IGC and its shock are supposed to do energy damage which, to my knowledge, is not mitigated by armor, but I wanted to see if this was the reason for the damage reduction. Here are my findings:

 

My IGC tool tip: 539 energy damage

My Ion Overload tool tip: 227 energy damage over 6 seconds

 

Actual IGC: 117 energy damage (no crits)

Actual Ion Overload: 146 energy damage (no crits, two hits of 74) over 6 seconds

 

IGC difference: -423 (-78% than tool tip)

Ion Overload difference: -81 (-35% than tool tip)

 

Assuming for a second that energy damage is mitigated by armor, IGC is losing much more damage than it should. Thus, at least IGC is broken. Ion Overload isn't as bad, but it seems like it's missing a tick. If Ion Overload ticked one more time, it would do 222 damage, which would more or less match the tool tip.

 

This needs to be fixed. We have two talents that are supposed to increase IGC damage (I did not have either in my test) by a total of 33%. Since IGC is broken, these talent points would net me a whooping 38 extra damage per IGC proc. If IGC was properly working, these talents would give me a 177 damage increase to every IGC proc and would actually be worthwhile.

 

As of right now, Supercharged Ion Gas and Prototype Cylinders are next to useless for Powertech tanks, so steer clear of them. Bioware, please fix this so IGC works as intended.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Rischardo

[TheronFett]

To my knowledge, Energy and Kinetic damage are both mitigated by all armor types.

 

But yes, I tend to agree. The additional damage done by IGC isn't worth investing points in, because the damage is minuscule, especially in PvP where it often ticks for less than 100 damage.

[ReggietheThird]

That's for tanking friend....not damage.....

[Ellnassil]

That's for tanking friend....not damage.....

 

Yeah and Aggro comes from where..... DMG....... there is no cool Skill with Aggro Modifier to use, just flat DMG.

[Morticoccus]

Yeah and Aggro comes from where..... DMG....... there is no cool Skill with Aggro Modifier to use, just flat DMG.

 

Grapple begs to differ.

[Marb]

That's for tanking friend....not damage.....

 

I think the OP knows what Ion Gas Cylinder is for...

[Rischardo]

I think the OP knows what Ion Gas Cylinder is for...

 

Yes, I know what IGC is for. Bioware knows what IGC is for. The added damage component was designed to help us keep aggro on a single target and was designed to work 100% of the time with rocket punch, our most reliable skill of generating aggro.

 

My point is that the tool tip reads one thing and the actual damage dealt is completely different. It is much much lower than it should be, even accounting for damage reduction on armor.

 

Unlike Assassins and Jugs, we don't have any "spammable" abilities that have any threat increases to it.

 

Sins have Electrify (+threat and dmg to Shock), Force Pull (grapple basically), and Wither

Jugs have Crushing Blow, Backhand (1 min CD)

We have grapple. Yup, that's it when it comes to "high amount of threat. And it's on a 45 second CD.

 

Thus, we need all the damage output we can get in order to be competitive for aggro. Sure, we could taunt stack, but the new bosses in EC require us to be more judicious with our taunts. If we have to save our taunt for a boss switch, we need to able to hold aggro with the tools we were given and not rely so much on taunt.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Rischardo

[OlosBC]

Yea, the damage on it is rather ****** (though energy damage IS mitigated by armor, it's still much lower than the tooltip suggests.

 

And i dont miss the "high threat" abilities. Ours just do good damage (other than this one) to hold threat.

[exphryl]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=317743

 

A little more comparison testing I did awhile back (in terms of using another energy item to compare it too)

 

Edited April 19, 2012 by exphryl

[Rischardo]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=317743

 

A little more comparison testing I did awhile back (in terms of using another energy item to compare it too)

 

 

I just ran your numbers on your old post.

 

In full gear, it looks like IGC hits for about 25% of what it should be (-75% than tooltip)

In no gear, IGC hits for 27% of what it should be (-73% than tooltip)

 

-73% to -78% is way more than the -35% damage reduction from armor.

 

If this is working as intended, then the tool tip needs to be changed. However, I have a feeling they don't want to change the tool tip because IGC would have to read something like (based on the Torhead numbers/description):

 

Loads your blaster with ion-charged gas, giving ranged attacks a 15% chance to deal 102 additional energy damage. While this cylinder is active, threat generated is increased by 50%. Increases armor by 60%, decreases all damage taken by 5%, and increases shield chance by 15%. Only one cylinder can be active at a time. Ion Jolts can only occur once every 1.5 seconds.

 

That sounds extremely lackluster when compared to the Assassin tanking stance:

 

Charges your lightsaber with dark energy, giving your attacks a 50% chance to drain life force from the target, dealing 229 internal damage and healing you for 464. This effect cannot occur more than once every 4.5 seconds. Increases your armor rating by 150%, shield chance by 15% and threat generation by 50%. While active, melee bonus damage is reduced by 5%. Requires a double-bladed lightsaber. Does not break Stealth.

 

A difference of 127 damage on our tanking stance bonus damage plus the fact that internal damage isn't mitigated would sound really unbalanced in favor of Assassin tanks. I can't believe you made this post two months ago and it still hasn't been addressed at all. Maybe they hoped that your thread would die off and no one else would notice.

[farfromnear]

I have to say pre 1.2 I was able to hold aggro on single targets much easier than now. I didn't fully gear myself out as I was working on my marauder before. But I was able to hold aggro easier than now.

 

A suggestion since all I have heard is that PWRTech tanks are the aoe tanks ... I lol'd at it each time. What should be done is a combo move where oil slick is dropped and the flame sweep ignites the oil and ticks damage on all enemies within the area of effect. Or have Flame Burst and sweep cost half of what they do now. I am in constant heat conservation mode since the patch to the point where I am not feeling like playing my BH tank at all. Its a nice 50 bank now... woot to the hizzle.

[Marb]

Yes, I know what IGC is for. Bioware knows what IGC is for. The added damage component was designed to help us keep aggro on a single target and was designed to work 100% of the time with rocket punch, our most reliable skill of generating aggro.

 

My point is that the tool tip reads one thing and the actual damage dealt is completely different. It is much much lower than it should be, even accounting for damage reduction on armor.

 

Unlike Assassins and Jugs, we don't have any "spammable" abilities that have any threat increases to it.

 

Sins have Electrify (+threat and dmg to Shock), Force Pull (grapple basically), and Wither

Jugs have Crushing Blow, Backhand (1 min CD)

We have grapple. Yup, that's it when it comes to "high amount of threat. And it's on a 45 second CD.

 

Thus, we need all the damage output we can get in order to be competitive for aggro. Sure, we could taunt stack, but the new bosses in EC require us to be more judicious with our taunts. If we have to save our taunt for a boss switch, we need to able to hold aggro with the tools we were given and not rely so much on taunt.

 

Its sad that IGC bug was reported during later beta, and still hasn't been fixed. Also, grapple is not really that great, as it has a minimum range, you can't use it on melee mobs and bosses, only before you close in as a threat builder.

[pure_laced]

Grapple begs to differ.

Grapple cannot be used on Bosses.

[Ossos]

Basically they broke us as a tank. It's like the WoW Warrior issue of old. You need to have your tanking class do some damage as it is part of the total threat. If the damage is so low that the threat modifier is unable to make up for it, then you have a real problem with the design of a class.

 

Basically, this all feeds into the changes they made for PvP. Again, we see PvE nerfs to "fix" PvP.

 

Ugh....Bioware had something with their Tank Hybrid classes. Too bad they killed it to ensure glowbat effectiveness. If you'll notice, Sin tanks are still highly effective in both PvE and PvP. Can't scare the glowbats away.

[Teioh_White]

Hmm...the way taunts work in this game, I can almost hold hate just by using them alone. Of course, BW realizes this, and loves to put aggro drops or tank swaps in the game to mess it up. That said, a fight like Karragga, I could probably spam myself to 100 heat at the start, and only have minimal aggro loss just taunting.

[OlosBC]

Basically they broke us as a tank. It's like the WoW Warrior issue of old. You need to have your tanking class do some damage as it is part of the total threat. If the damage is so low that the threat modifier is unable to make up for it, then you have a real problem with the design of a class.

 

Basically, this all feeds into the changes they made for PvP. Again, we see PvE nerfs to "fix" PvP.

 

Ugh....Bioware had something with their Tank Hybrid classes. Too bad they killed it to ensure glowbat effectiveness. If you'll notice, Sin tanks are still highly effective in both PvE and PvP. Can't scare the glowbats away.

 

Frontload your damage with explosive fuel, overheat to like 60 and vent, add in a couple attacks at that point and a taunt, and move into normal rotation. Put guard on your best melee dps.

 

Yes, it's pretty bad that this ability is so terrible, but it's not the end of the world. We're still better off than juggs, after all.(I haven't raided with a good sin tank since well before 1.2)

Edited April 22, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comments

[Agooz]

Grapple cannot be used on Bosses.

 

Yes it can. It just wont pull them, but still raise aggro.

[Spifnar]

Bioware should be embarrassed that they have let this go on for so long. Multiple threads and bug reports, etc

 

Either fix the tool tip for ICG, or fix the ability. If you fix the tooltip, then consider making Prototype Cylinders add 25% damage to ICG

[Rischardo]

Yes it can. It just wont pull them, but still raise aggro.

 

has this been confirmed? If this is true, shouldn't our opener be grapple first (which I have never seen in a guide btw).

[Agooz]

has this been confirmed? If this is true, shouldn't our opener be grapple first (which I have never seen in a guide btw).

 

Yes it has, and I dont know what "guides" you are referring to. If the source is not from this forum, I wouldnt even look at it. There are a ton of bad/wrong advice on anything swtor out there.

[VonFinklestein]

How do we flag this thread for attention?

[Xsorus]

How do we flag this thread for attention?

 

If this was Rift, we wouldn't have this problem..

[Ossos]

You sound like an anakin-level whiney jedi.

 

Quit being terrible, frontload your damage with explosive fuel, overheat to like 60 and vent, add in a couple attacks at that point and a taunt, and move into normal rotation. Put guard on your best melee dps.

 

Yes, it's pretty bad that this ability is so terrible, but it's not the end of the world. We're still better off than juggs, after all.(I haven't raided with a good sin tank since well before 1.2)

 

The NORSE build is still pretty good. However, PFT IS broken and regardless how you play your other talents you can't make up for the DPS loss.

 

As for Heat Blast, it's lack luster and the damage it does it PATHETISAD. Not to mention that to get it, you had to drop 5 worthless points into Heat Screen. I'm sure that's a big help against all those Force and Tech attacks. Not to mention that we took an 18% ding to our mitigation, so dumping your 5 points into that can now be looked upon as a REEEAAALLLYY smart choice for talents . You have a bad build and you're being carried.

Edited April 22, 2012 by Ossos

[seabromd]

I'm really disappointed to see that they both, don't change it, and don't seem to acknowledge that it's broken. As a PvP tank, it's still important to keep the pressure up. I'd really prefer if IGC hit like it should.