Did former Wow casuals ruin PVP/SWTOR?

[Bishidoblade]

Still incorrect. There is no way to really reward players "skill". There is only rewards for time input. It will always come down to this. You can be a complete rubbish player but if you play for many many hours a day, you will reach that gear before skilled players who play for less time do.

 

 

Wrong again - there are ways they could easily reward skill over amount of games played by simply implementing a ranked ceiling.

 

Even something similar to what WoW did would be better. Make gear have a min rating needed to buy said piece of gear, with a minimum of 10 games a week (or whatever) to be able to qualify to get points that you earn towards buying the ranked gear. Start from 0 rank, with a hidden individual rank to avoid people disbanding / reforming to farm lesser ranked people. Once you reach the rank , for instance like 2200 in WoW your able to buy the ranked gear.

 

 

The only way to abuse the system is to have an amazing team carry you, which in this game would be nearly impossible honestly.

 

I use WoW as an example because they had the right idea in regards to reward for work. You could be a casual who was just amazing at PVP,with your 10 games a week, get your points and your free to do whatever.

 

Like i said, you can play 100 games a week, if your not coordinated with your team/partners you will never reach the rank needed to buy the gear. On the other side of it you only need to play 10 games, if your good enough to win most of your games so your rating keeps going up, good for you - your better and the reward shows.

 

You can make it about amount of time all you want, but that system right there you could get all of your games down in a few hours in ONE day.

 

Again, just using WoW's system as an example of where they could start from, and easily develop their own unique system. Then people like yourself never have to see a hardcore team that will roll you, and you can live happily in your bubble of protection, away from all the mean Sent/Mara's

 

 

Now hows that sound peaches!

[Bloodtau]

Wrong again - there are ways they could easily reward skill over amount of games played by simply implementing a ranked ceiling.

 

Even something similar to what WoW did would be better. Make gear have a min rating needed to buy said piece of gear, with a minimum of 10 games a week (or whatever) to be able to qualify to get points that you earn towards buying the ranked gear. Start from 0 rank, with a hidden individual rank to avoid people disbanding / reforming to farm lesser ranked people. Once you reach the rank , for instance like 2200 in WoW your able to buy the ranked gear.

 

 

The only way to abuse the system is to have an amazing team carry you, which in this game would be nearly impossible honestly.

 

I use WoW as an example because they had the right idea in regards to reward for work. You could be a casual who was just amazing at PVP,with your 10 games a week, get your points and your free to do whatever.

 

Like i said, you can play 100 games a week, if your not coordinated with your team/partners you will never reach the rank needed to buy the gear. On the other side of it you only need to play 10 games, if your good enough to win most of your games so your rating keeps going up, good for you - your better and the reward shows.

 

You can make it about amount of time all you want, but that system right there you could get all of your games down in a few hours in ONE day.

 

Again, just using WoW's system as an example of where they could start from, and easily develop their own unique system. Then people like yourself never have to see a hardcore team that will roll you, and you can live happily in your bubble of protection, away from all the mean Sent/Mara's

 

 

Now hows that sound peaches!

 

It sounds terrible. Why you ask? because WOW, as well as this game is all about the gear anyway and the FOTM classes.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Bloodtau

[DarthOvertone]

The primary mistake that BW made with PvP is that they made it about Gear instead of the fights. I know this is an MMO, and as such, requires some form of inherent progression, but there are better ways to do this than just a gear chase.

 

If the SWTOR Devs would focus on creating conditions for good fights, then a lot of the problems they keep creating for themselves could be avoided.

 

I don't blame WoW for the bad decisions of SWTOR's PvP Devs. If anything, these Devs should have learned from WoW's mistakes. Not repeat them.

[Conry]

Im still slightly confused....the War Hero gear is easily obtainable..if it wasn't people would be complaining about how ...higher ranked WZ will be impossible to do because...early bloomer would have better gear....by making gear easy to get...puts everyone on the same lvl....people complain about gear based....when it truly isn't...The lengthy grind to get the gear is only there to either make the game longer, or give the newcomers a place to step into before Queue for ranked WZs

[Bloodtau]

All in all, gear grind should only be cosmetic and nothing else.

There's a new MMo coming out that gets this right. The pvp in it is amazing, no 8 second fights, Players need skills, positioning, dodging etc to win. perfect.

[Sugarray]

All in all, gear grind should only be cosmetic and nothing else.

There's a new MMo coming out that gets this right. The pvp in it is amazing, no 8 second fights, Players need skills, positioning, dodging etc to win. perfect.

 

Yes GW2. But please stay in this game and these forum. I'd rather you don't fill GW with your selfish pest.

[Sugarray]

The primary mistake that BW made with PvP is that they made it about Gear instead of the fights. I know this is an MMO, and as such, requires some form of inherent progression, but there are better ways to do this than just a gear chase.

 

If the SWTOR Devs would focus on creating conditions for good fights, then a lot of the problems they keep creating for themselves could be avoided.

 

I don't blame WoW for the bad decisions of SWTOR's PvP Devs. If anything, these Devs should have learned from WoW's mistakes. Not repeat them.

 

WoW worked well for quite a few years even with gear grind. So its not a mistake.

 

Now I do believe that the GW2 ,equal gear, is a nice way to go. But this game also features a lot options to individualize your class so that it'll be entertaining a longer time. And the WvW will probably be more engaging that repeating the same Wzs again and again.

[Bishidoblade]

The primary mistake that BW made with PvP is that they made it about Gear instead of the fights. I know this is an MMO, and as such, requires some form of inherent progression, but there are better ways to do this than just a gear chase.

 

If the SWTOR Devs would focus on creating conditions for good fights, then a lot of the problems they keep creating for themselves could be avoided.

 

I don't blame WoW for the bad decisions of SWTOR's PvP Devs. If anything, these Devs should have learned from WoW's mistakes. Not repeat them.

 

I agree - they know what has worked, and what has not from previous games. Remember how exciting it was leading up to the launch of SWTOR? It was going to be the "WoW killer". I really really really wanted it to be, too. Been a SW fan since i was a little kid and that's why I'm so disappointed with the current situation. The game def has its perks, but I'm disappointed in alot of aspects of the game that... at this point in the grand scheme of things in the world of MMO's - should be a hell of alot more polished, and smooth then they currently are.

[Zaranok]

Just wondering if you guys think BW is trying to hard to please former WoW casuals with how easy it is to obtain BM gear and starter gear?

 

Yes

 

and also the stupid PvP ideas that pop up constantly are also from the WoW tards (constant arena ******** talk for an example) and the moment they dont get their way they start making QQ threads to get attention

 

stuff are still sort of under control and will get better in the game's PvP but the moment Bioware starts listening to these self claimed PvP experts from WoW that you see making new threads 24/7 the game will go straight to hell

 

(I hope it doesnt come to that)

[TheMunny]

Just wondering if you guys think BW is trying to hard to please former WoW casuals with how easy it is to obtain BM gear and starter gear?

 

Blizzard brought nothing to the table other than turning this genre into a repetitive time sink grind fest. There is no creativity anymore, just grind, grind, grind and grind some more. Then they release an xpack and you get to rinse and repeat. If anything it is time the MMO market did away with this model. You want to play a game like it is a job? The asian mmo's are over there ----------------->

[unicornfive]

Just wondering if you guys think BW is trying to hard to please former WoW casuals with how easy it is to obtain BM gear and starter gear?

 

I dont like to die by srub keyboard turners, only because they sit in front of pc for 16 hours per day and have better gear than me...

For me PVP gear should be purchasable by money for everyone that ding 50, with exactly the same quality. And the PVP farm shoud be only for cosmetics...

 

On both my alts, i was terrible outgeared before 1.2, while farming wz and finally, when i got my last end game pvp piece, i lost mood and rerolled other alt...

[Bishidoblade]

Yes

 

and also the stupid PvP ideas that pop up constantly are also from the WoW tards (constant arena ******** talk for an example) and the moment they dont get their way they start making QQ threads to get attention

 

stuff are still sort of under control and will get better in the game's PvP but the moment Bioware starts listening to these self claimed PvP experts from WoW that you see making new threads 24/7 the game will go straight to hell

 

(I hope it doesnt come to that)

 

lol - Look. Im not trying to make this game into WoW, i quit WoW for a reason. I have opinions on how they could make things better, would they truly make things better - i don't know for sure, but honestly anything would be better then some of the stuff they have going now. Also i'm attempting to have conversation on the matter to get other peoples opinion, and i respect others opinion. If you don't agree with mine, that's your choice - many here disagree and thats fine.

 

Also i'm not trying to make the devs do anything, but look at the current situation and maybe think of ways to better it, based on constructive conversation. The only way things will change is if there is conversation , and even some argument about it.

 

I'm not forcing you to think the way i think, or am i talking in absolutes regarding its my way or the highway. If someone thought of a better way for the system to run, that would be great and a step in the right direction.

 

I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape when having a constructive argument, and take everything personally, like im calling them out specifically as the problem. If you cant manage to have a constructive argument and keep it civil, and not just spout off " bleh bleh elitist bleh bleh" without adding anything to the actual conversation then i dont even know they they bother.

[Arkerus]

The WoW healer model ruined healing expectation in MMOs.

 

Now healers expect to be 100% invincible against all other DPS.

[Averran]

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[AesirUesugi]

Nothing in this game is a "grindfest", it already was about the easiest MMO ever to max out everything, including gear. Anyone who thinks there's grinding in this game is extremely casual and apparently has little previous MMO experience.

 

OP, I don't think it's ruined PVP, but you're definitely starting to see a lot more clueless casuals in war zone PUGs now, and gear progression in the game is dumbed down, making accomplishments less meaningful.

 

Too right. It couldn't be further from a grindfest. My guild has seen quite a few people who have been fairly casually PVPing over the last week pick up 3-6 BM items including mainhand. ANd this was DESPITE the fact that if you're on a bad run you were getting 1/4 or less of the the commendations you were getting if you were winning.

 

Its like they can't change things in moderation. Everyone QQ's like crazy about too low rewards for losing. Their solution is more than TRIPLE what you get. I got put into a losing Civil War match, did what I could to get some medals with time thta was remaining, got 4 expecting to get 20. Patch means I now get 66?!

 

Stop caving in to the crying it is already ridiculously easy to do everything in this game and you keep bending over.

THEY OVERDID IT

[vrgadin]

Do you think that everyone in the world has the time to sit through a grindfest in order to get any decent gear?

 

The new gear has attached costs to it, its very accessible but it's not free plus there's still the very expensive war hero set to get. Also, how does does making gear more accessible to casuals ruin the game? This has to be one of the most nonsensical posts I have ever read.

 

no, only nerdy scrubs with no jobs who like to sit around and call everyone with jobs/girlfriends/wives/lives "casuals" and somehow thats a bad thing...lol

[vrgadin]

Wrong again - there are ways they could easily reward skill over amount of games played by simply implementing a ranked ceiling.

 

Even something similar to what WoW did would be better. Make gear have a min rating needed to buy said piece of gear, with a minimum of 10 games a week (or whatever) to be able to qualify to get points that you earn towards buying the ranked gear. Start from 0 rank, with a hidden individual rank to avoid people disbanding / reforming to farm lesser ranked people. Once you reach the rank , for instance like 2200 in WoW your able to buy the ranked gear.

 

 

The only way to abuse the system is to have an amazing team carry you, which in this game would be nearly impossible honestly.

 

I use WoW as an example because they had the right idea in regards to reward for work. You could be a casual who was just amazing at PVP,with your 10 games a week, get your points and your free to do whatever.

 

Like i said, you can play 100 games a week, if your not coordinated with your team/partners you will never reach the rank needed to buy the gear. On the other side of it you only need to play 10 games, if your good enough to win most of your games so your rating keeps going up, good for you - your better and the reward shows.

 

You can make it about amount of time all you want, but that system right there you could get all of your games down in a few hours in ONE day.

 

Again, just using WoW's system as an example of where they could start from, and easily develop their own unique system. Then people like yourself never have to see a hardcore team that will roll you, and you can live happily in your bubble of protection, away from all the mean Sent/Mara's

 

 

Now hows that sound peaches!

 

its bushido, not bishido.

[Maladon]

Anyone who refers to warzones as "PVP" is a casual. Anyone who thinks they are due an advantage in "PVP" for time served is also a casual. So yes, I think "casuals" have ruined pvp. Not just SWTOR PVP either, PVP for the entire genre.

[Iboga]

Anyone who refers to warzones as "PVP" is a casual. Anyone who thinks they are due an advantage in "PVP" for time served is also a casual. So yes, I think "casuals" have ruined pvp. Not just SWTOR PVP either, PVP for the entire genre.

 

The real problem is Bioware has effectively destroyed all other forms of PvP in this game. It's not like everyone wants to do WZ's, it's just our only Player Versus Player option in this game...

 

I also don't think there's anything wrong with giving compensation for time invested, this is a game after all. But time invested shouldn't give you a permanent advantage there needs to be cap. The same goes for losing a WZ match, you should get something, but not nearly as much as winning.

 

As other people have said, once you hit the gear cap decorative/special gear with the capped stats should be available (free or trade in old gear) so you can show off, but that's it, a permanent advantage just makes no sense. Your advantage from time played "should" be a higher skill level, but that's not always the case...

[Kyaa]

SWTOR PVP is being killed by the same developers who killed Warhammer Online. Stop putting the blame anywhere else. That's where it belongs.

 

Agreed and the name is

 

Mr. GABE AMATANGELO

[Maladon]

The real problem is Bioware has effectively destroyed all other forms of PvP in this game. It's not like everyone wants to do WZ's, it's just our only Player Versus Player option in this game...

To make a really great pvp game all they have to do is be brave enough to delete the warzones. Make player kills worth commendations, place some consumable resources or objectives out in the world and have a deathstar blow up the republic fleet and then crash into the imperial fleet while they're celebrating the victory.

[Masturomenos]

Actually games inludin wow are going to what swtor pvp was pre 1.2 which is longer time to kill and easier time for new players to b on par with players who have played longer in pvp.

 

Also i think its an insult to wow to even cmpare the pvp. Wow has dspell mechaics, cleanse means something, cc has dr with other similar cc so u cant run one spec and do it all. Wow in arena and rated bgs you have importance given that healers play not that they are sdelined for more dps. Balance is not only done with evidence but also with small changes. Not only that they speak to the community but they take blame and admit it when they are wrong. Above all else they hotfix issues they dont wait for major patches and when changes are made the ptr is actually a plcece to est and balance changes and you can copy 50s to ptr and then put them in equal gear so changes made matter and are done right.

 

Swtor cant even test changes nontheless make changes correctly from bad testing.