Derekloffin Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Really, when you boil down any game's objectives, they all come down to the same few archetypes. That really isn't the issue. It is the presentation of that objective and reaching it that is the important thing. Take for example the 1st level in Crysis. So, for the first level your objectives are: go there, go there, go there, destroy that, go there, optionally activate that. Hmm, seems pretty simple. What makes accomplishing that interesting even for repeat play was that you had a fair number of ways of accomplishing that, and AI made each option fairly dynamic. Another example, God of War. Pretty much the whole game is proceed to the next place, or kill that. What makes it interesting is not the objectives being diverse, but rather the environments and obstacles put in your way to get there. Each is fairly unique situations. The issue with an MMO around this is 1. you have to account for numerous people simultaneously or individually tackling a quest at once, 2. you have a lot more overhead to process events for hundreds of people at the same time and finally, 3. you have players of all skill levels involved. Most games don't have to deal with 1 or 2, and 3 they get around by having different versions of the game for each skill level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xinski Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Why when I play tennis do have to serve the ball into the little box? Why can't just smack the ball anywhere I want, it shouldn't even have to land in the court. Tenis has been around for 100's of years, surely we should be progressed passed this by now. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkip Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I think the point was more about it having real changes in your gaming experience... like I dunno if you take the dark side choice to kill this guy maybe there are certain guards that are now unfriendly to you on one planet and friendly to you on another.... or perhaps your last planet is instanced around your LS/DS level so that your world would be a little different. They do have things similar to this in other games in that areas look different for different players depending on what stage you are through a quest series/chain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serbegorn Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Why are we still in the "Kill 10 rats" era of MMOs? coughguildsneezewarshacktwo, I'm sorry, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBSIP Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 because real puzzles confuse people and make them give up on the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slteath Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 to answer your question base on my humble opinion is simply that, Video games gives a person illusion of hope of success. Let's be honest, not everyone can be Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Mother Teresa, or whoever else achieve great things in this world. By basing a game truely on player skills but nothing base on level/gear, will only create that 99% syndrome that is happening now. "Why can't I be successful if I work hard?" quite simply put it, you are not talented enough. You are limited by your personal capabilities. I always remember this, "All illness are curable but stupidity ain't one. There is no medicine to cure stupid." A lot of players also will get discourage if things are not working out for them. Lucky my gf doesn't read the forum, but she is just not capable for running HM ops, and that's just how it is, it's her personality. By implementing level/gear, one can have the false hope of "acquiring such level and gear will make me a great player", with that being said, I been running HM FP with my gf to get her gear up and feel a sense of accomplishment. I haven't played EVE anymore, but i still love that game simply because there is no set goal, and it is truely an open end story. After all this ramble, in video game world, it creates the false hope of achievement and that's what drive subscription, since a lot of people don't want to accept that life is a b*tch and reality is cruel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VyperStars Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Seems like you are whining for the sake of whining... Their first dynamic event you plugged as mediocre.. They have barely finished the game to the extent that they would like to. They did evolve the genre. They have given you a story line for each class.. you don't have to "plug" through all those quests again. Due to be able to level via PvP and space battles. They are trying new things while keeping it classic to the MMO genre.. They still have bugs to fix before they can look at "Super Happy Fun Time Dynamic Driven Event That Spans The Universe"...... Seems MMO's aren't for you anymore.. Maybe you evolved... Also......... Have you done every Hardmode yet? .... Every Operation? Every World boss? Solved the Puzzle of the +10 Datacron on fleet? ..... They have put more time and effort into this game than you have your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanderII Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) I love this game but a negative aspect is the static, this game is too static, there isn't change, achievements, city conquest etc. For example I'm a jedi knight I went to Coreilla, at the end of Coreill's quest world I freed the world from the Imperial occupation, but when I went out to istance zone I saw that nothing change there are again Imperials and Coreilla is again under Imperial occupation. I'd like to see invation, I'd like to see a Galaxy more dynamic than this. Edited April 19, 2012 by VanderII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenirath Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Um, Eve does have levels, there are skill levels in that game. The reason that many roleplaying games follow a level and gear formula is because most people want clear and reachable objectives in their game. Even shooters are taking elements from RPGs and adding in a bit of level and/or gearing to give people something to reach for. Pure skill-based results aren't even in sports game, because you are still gearing up your team by trying to build the best players, and then utilizing those players to maximum benefit to win. You seem to want less of a game, and more of a virtual world. Second Life is still going, and turning a healthy profil still, that may be something that suits your preferences more. Even EvE the best sandbox IMHO is boiled down to kill / collect / (escort). The only difference is its masked because it isnt scripted. If you don't think so ask yourself this, what did you do in eve? Killing - Ratting, Pirating, Collecting SoV, Complexes, PvP ETC ETC Escort- Transporting Goods, Moving Ships, Trading Collect- Mining, Salvaging, Spying(Info Collection) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenirath Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I love this game but a negative aspect is the static, this game is too static, there isn't change, achievements, city conquest etc. For example I'm a jedi knight I went to Coreilla, at the end of Coreill's quest world I freed the world from the Imperial occupation, but when I went out to istance zone I saw that nothing change there are again Imperials and Coreilla is again under Imperial occupation. I'd like to see invation, I'd like to see a Galaxy more dynamic than this. How do you suggest they make the entire planet back under republic control after you finish your story quest without making it under republic control for every else? I believe you want a single player game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VyperStars Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Even EvE the best sandbox IMHO is boiled down to kill / collect / (escort). The only difference is its masked because it isnt scripted. If you don't think so ask yourself this, what did you do in eve? Killing - Ratting, Pirating, Collecting SoV, Complexes, PvP ETC ETC Escort- Transporting Goods, Moving Ships, Trading Collect- Mining, Salvaging, Spying(Info Collection) Eve took simple concepts and tried to make them difficult to confuse people.... Eve the only game where you are not punished for not playing... Your character can still advance.... There will always be players better than you because they have played the game longer. It doesn't come down to skill it comes down to who has had the longest active account. Also EVE has like 100000 subscribers... EVE is a horrible example of an MMORPG .... It's just an MMO without the RPG element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanderII Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) How do you suggest they make the entire planet back under republic control after you finish your story quest without making it under republic control for every else? I believe you want a single player game. Yes, it's true, I usually play single player game Edited April 19, 2012 by VanderII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluerodian Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I think it's time for some developer to look beyond the Gaming industry and in to other industries for ideas. One I've been developing the concept for is turning over control of the entire narrative flow of the game to a neural network and making heavy use of genetic algorithms. It would create a cycle of the players adapting to the system, then the system adapting to the players, then the players adapting once more in an ever changing and evolving flow. NPCs would have needs, goals, ambitions that the neural network would form "quests" out of, and these would build on top of each other. No two servers would be alike and no two players would have the same experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DataBeaver Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 We are still there because all objectives that make sense can be boiled down to: Collect something Kill something. Escort someone. Don't forget: FedEx Quests Magic Wand quests (Use item A on NPC B) Vehicle Quests That list of six about sums up the RPG experience. Collect, FedEx and Magic Wand are really the same type: interact with some static, non-hostile thing. Not sure what you mean by vehicle quests. Using a vehicle to accomplish a standard objective? That only changes how you do it, not what you do. A racing minigame could be different enough to qualify as a separate type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanderII Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Bioware may insert a planet with a dynamic system, with base to conquest, with invasions, like the World vs World of Guild Wars 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalrisThane Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig. Edited March 31, 2013 by DalrisThane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantum_Icecube Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 You can have RPGs that require skill and not just numbers and hitting a skill rotation. Look at Fallout, look at Skyrim, What? Even MMOs require skill. That's why some people suck at PvP and some don't, and why some people can't get a spot in a raiding guild and some people have no problem. I think your problem is that you're looking for the wrong kind of skills. Have you considered first person shooters? Might be more up your alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Im hearing alot of complaining, but not alot of suggestions of how to change it. Like it or not, most games out there (especially MMO's) are structured this way because its the easiest way to structure a game and still attract a large enough crowd. There are other games that are not structured like this. They usually dont get much of a following, but the ones that do like those games tend to be almost fanatical in their love of the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabloDoom Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Best latest sandbox I played was Mortal Online. An indie game but had the most complex crafts system. Felt like a 3d UO. Only played Beta, their release was damn too expensive and was too buggy to play, but had great concepts I wish more developers would follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocox Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 With the advancement in technology, code of laws and society, WHY do we have to: work for X hours every day? do at least Y amount of stuff per X hours? get at least Z grade at an exam to pass? spend time and credits on W number of gifts to raise the affection of some chick to get to marry her? Makes you think doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConradLionhart Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 We are still in the "Kill 10 rats" era of MMOs because of WoW. The MMO market is an entirely different monster because usually, people only have time and money to play ONE MMO. Whereas for single player games, they can all co-exist on a player's PC. So the MMO market is limited and if you want to be successful as an MMO, you have to take away some of those players from WoW. WoW has the majority of the pie. The majority of the MMO gamers will only play ONE MMO, and that is of course WoW. Unfortunately, other MMOs' innovations are not enough to drag players away from WoW. If you try to be innovative, and deviate from the standard that WoW has established, you are put to the sword by WoW and you become free to play. Innovation = being put to the sword. So that is why we are still in the "Kill 10 rats" era of MMOs, because it is the safe formula that works. Statistically, new MMOs that try to be innovative haven't done so well and they have gone free to play. I remember reading that Star Trek Online's boss fights are one hour long. The reviewer did remark that it is too long compared to WoW boss fights that take only a few minutes. The short boss fight standard that is established by WoW. Deviate from it, boom, free to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean_Parisot Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 For me the great thing about MMO's is playing with other people and existing in the same environment where chance collaboration can happen at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotorius Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Push buttons 1-12(- and =) on your keyboard Wait, so you really push the - and = buttons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanderII Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 We have to see the MMOs of next generation which try to introduce new systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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