Galbatorrix Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Would like to thank all involved for making this thread the Number One Google Result for Rakghoul Plague SWTOR Could not have done this w/o you! Perhaps more attention to various concerns may now be brought to light! ED: for corrrect listing; auto-corrected on entry. Congrats! I mean, the rest of the gaming world already heard just how whiny this player base is. But now, they can not only see the proof easily, but also get a nice chuckle due to this QQ fest being at the expense of something awesome! Good job, QQers. You make us all look terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Attacking other players would be within PvP rules. Blowing one's nose at them, or emoting at them, or sending them tells, or infecting them with the rakghoul virus would not be within PvP rules, because those are not attacks. I'm unsure why you keep calling these places Safe Areas. This seems to be something you invented, much like the PvE rules that you feel are being violated. Bioware doesn't call them Safe Areas, with or without the capitalization, that I'm aware of. In game, there are references to Rest Areas, which are defined relative to their effects on rest exp. I don't recall seeing anything to indicate that the fleet is supposed to be a place where nobody can interact with you at all in any sense without your permission. Indeed, I don't recall seeing that this is intended to be true anywhere in game. But yes, players are choosing to gather on the fleets. Why is this? Did they gather there because they knew it would upset you, or did they gather there because they thought it would be a fun and/or convenient way to complete their quest? The difference is all-important here. As I keep pointing out, you cannot call something harassment or griefing - according to the very quotes you provided above by the devs - unless you can establish INTENT to cause distress. And that simply does not exist here, by and large. It is my hope that Bioware will make future opt-out options both free and persistent. When their Emote, Tell, etc effects me directly; could be Griefing. These were called Safe Areas pre-launch here , and still are considered by many (see under PvP): http://www.swtor-spy.com/guides/choosing-a-server-type-for-swtor-pve-pvp-rp-pve-rp-pvp/307/ No invention needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 When their Emote, Tell, etc effects me directly; could be Griefing. These were called Safe Areas pre-launch here , and still are considered by many (see under PvP): http://www.swtor-spy.com/guides/choosing-a-server-type-for-swtor-pve-pvp-rp-pve-rp-pvp/307/ No invention needed. So, if they had another event where Imps where attacking the Pub fleet and visa versa, you'd be against that as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) So, if they had another event where Imps where attacking the Pub fleet and visa versa, you'd be against that as well? If I were forced to participate; you betcha! Edited April 19, 2012 by Elhanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galbatorrix Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 If I were forced to participate; you betca! How about if it were just baby kittens that followed you around from time to time while on fleet? Would that be ok for you? Would you need an opt out for that as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 When their Emote, Tell, etc effects me directly; could be Griefing. These were called Safe Areas pre-launch here , and still are considered by many (see under PvP): http://www.swtor-spy.com/guides/choosing-a-server-type-for-swtor-pve-pvp-rp-pve-rp-pvp/307/ No invention needed. Any referral to "Safe Area" reflects toward PvP and how your PvP flag will naturally time-out and turn off if you do not have it toggled on permanently. The opposite faction cannot enter the Fleet and capitol worlds at this time, so they are considered "Safe". They are not "Safe" from the Rakghoul pandemic, but they are safe from being attacked by the opposing faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raeln Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 If I were forced to participate; you betca! So what if random infected NPCs spawned, ran up to you and infected you by explosion every time you idled on the Fleet for more than 30 seconds? How would you feel about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyaka Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 So, if they had another event where Imps where attacking the Pub fleet and visa versa, you'd be against that as well? Some people will perpetually see themselves as victims in any situation. Regardless of what BioWare does or does not do in the future, they will find a way to be the victim. Nothing is ever in their control, nor is it their responsibility to fix it. It's someone else's job to make it all right. It's just in some people's nature to do so. I think if nothing else...this thread proves it. Regardless of all possible solutions and explanations...some folks are sincerely dead set that they world is out to get them...and that someone owes them for their perceived hardships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatB Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 I'm unsure why you keep calling these places Safe Areas. This seems to be something you invented, much like the PvE rules that you feel are being violated. Bioware doesn't call them Safe Areas, with or without the capitalization, that I'm aware of. In game, Pretty sure Fleet, at least, gives you a message about "entering sanctuary". Which presumably means intended as a safe area. As far as I'm concerned everybody in this thread who doesn't want to allow people to opt out for free is a griefer. There's no other reason why they wouldn't want to lose victims. Also, you cannot simply avoid griefers and still play. I know on my server several times there have been infected players intentionally standing right in front of both fleet GTN's. If you're trying to buy/sell, how do you avoid THAT? Considering the number of "established" places to go to hold infection parties, it would seem that anybody intentionally infecting others in other places, (such at, say the GTN) is a griefer. Now sure. It's "legalized" griefing, but they're still being douches and negatively interfereing with other peoples gameplay in a way they don't want, for no real benefit to themselves other than the enjoyment said interference provides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 When their Emote, Tell, etc effects me directly; could be Griefing. No, it could not, unless there is INTENT. Please read my responses to the various claims you've made about how this could be griefing and/or harassment. I don't care to keep repeating them and I've already addressed this point in detail. You seem to keep throwing out arguments, then you ignore the replies and move on to new arguments. This suggests to me that your stance is more emotional than rational, which in turn means it's pointless trying to discuss this with you. I hope you can prove me wrong. These were called Safe Areas pre-launch here , and still are considered by many (see under PvP): http://www.swtor-spy.com/guides/choosing-a-server-type-for-swtor-pve-pvp-rp-pve-rp-pvp/307/ No invention needed. That's not a Bioware site. So your argument relies on a literal interpretation of a phrase arbitrarily used by a third-party site? If torhead claims an item is in game, is Bioware required to make it available? If darthhater claims a skill has a certain effect, is Bioware compelled to change the skill to match the website's description? And if swtor-spy claims that safe spots (not areas, incidentally) are places where nobody can interact with you without your permission, is Bioware forced to implement them this way? That's not generally how these things work. Now, if you'd like to show me somewhere that Bioware claimed nobody would ever be able to interact with you in any manner that you don't approve, I'd love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Pretty sure Fleet, at least, gives you a message about "entering sanctuary". Which presumably means intended as a safe area. "You have entered a rest zone." As far as I'm concerned everybody in this thread who doesn't want to allow people to opt out for free is a griefer. There's no other reason why they wouldn't want to lose victims. While I'm definitely in favor of a free opt-out, I think it's unreasonable to assert that everyone who doesn't want to see a change has malicious intent. Some people simply don't think Bioware ought to spend time or money fixing something they view as trivial. Also, you cannot simply avoid griefers and still play. I know on my server several times there have been infected players intentionally standing right in front of both fleet GTN's. If you're trying to buy/sell, how do you avoid THAT? I agree that it's very difficult to avoid infected players. The GTNs, mailboxes, and cargo hold access points in the fleets tend to be camped. I still maintain that this isn't griefing in any sense though; it's just a convenient and/or fun way to complete a quest. Considering the number of "established" places to go to hold infection parties, it would seem that anybody intentionally infecting others in other places, (such at, say the GTN) is a griefer. Now sure. It's "legalized" griefing, but they're still being douches and negatively interfereing with other peoples gameplay in a way they don't want, for no real benefit to themselves other than the enjoyment said interference provides. Erm, what? There are only "established" places when people establish them; Bioware didn't send out a notification asking infected people to gather in a certain place, after all. Regardless, you're choosing to view a player who wants to complete a quest as malicious, even when there is no evidence of malice. I don't think that's reasonable, and I'm certain it's not constructive. Edited April 19, 2012 by Aloro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) No, it could not, unless there is INTENT. Please read my responses to the various claims you've made about how this could be griefing and/or harassment. I don't care to keep repeating them and I've already addressed this point in detail. You seem to keep throwing out arguments, then you ignore the replies and move on to new arguments. This suggests to me that your stance is more emotional than rational, which in turn means it's pointless trying to discuss this with you. I hope you can prove me wrong. That's not a Bioware site. So your argument relies on a literal interpretation of a phrase arbitrarily used by a third-party site? If torhead claims an item is in game, is Bioware required to make it available? If darthhater claims a skill has a certain effect, is Bioware compelled to change the skill to match the website's description? And if swtor-spy claims that safe spots (not areas, incidentally) are places where nobody can interact with you without your permission, is Bioware forced to implement them this way? That's not generally how these things work. Now, if you'd like to show me somewhere that Bioware claimed nobody would ever be able to interact with you in any manner that you don't approve, I'd love to see it. Already informed others earlier that I could not find any set of PvP Rules on SWTOR, so Yes, this is an example of Off site material that also believes certain areas are safe. This was also the common term used here pre-launch in many discussions of PvP, as well as threads on Griefing. Edited April 19, 2012 by Elhanan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Already informed others earlier that I could not find any set of PvP Rules on SWTOR, so Yes, this is an example of off site material that also believes certain areas are safe. This was also the common term used here pre-launch in many discussions of PvP, as well as threads on Griefing. Do you have any thoughts about my long and detailed response to your citations of dev posts about harassment? I put some effort into responding, and you completely ignored every point I made in your reply. I'm beginning to think you're not debating in good faith here, but are either trolling, or just rationalizing based on a gut feeling. Stuff you ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Do you have any thoughts about my long and detailed response to your citations of dev posts about harassment? I put some effort into responding, and you completely ignored every point I made in your reply. I'm beginning to think you're not debating in good faith here, but are either trolling, or just rationalizing based on a gut feeling. No; simply tired. I will simply try and use the metods for complaint and reporting that Bioware hass offered, and let them decide what is and is not policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloro Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 No; simply tired. I will simply try and use the metods for complaint and reporting that Bioware hass offered, and let them decide what is and is not policy. Not to put too fine a point on it; does this mean you're going to keep claiming in this thread that you're being griefed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lundli Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 No; simply tired. I will simply try and use the metods for complaint and reporting that Bioware hass offered, and let them decide what is and is not policy. If so I applaud you and wish you the best of luck. Now, can we please let this abomination of a thread finally curl up and die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poobin Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) Based on the logic on the QQ'ers in this thread id like to state that the people vaccinating themselves and trying to avoid me infecting them are griefing me. They are ruining my enjoyment of the game because i cant progress on my mission to infect players. Bioware please remove the ability to not get infected! Sincerely, concerned subscriber Edited April 19, 2012 by poobin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subatia Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 So what if random infected NPCs spawned, ran up to you and infected you by explosion every time you idled on the Fleet for more than 30 seconds? How would you feel about that? If I got 10,000-75,000 credits after 10 minutes, you bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhartel Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 No; simply tired. I will simply try and use the metods for complaint and reporting that Bioware hass offered, and let them decide what is and is not policy. Are you still complaining dude? I remember when this was a fresh thread and 82 pages in you are still on about this. Why so serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kampori Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Based on the logic on the QQ'ers in this thread id like to state that the people vaccinating themselves and trying to avoid me infecting them are griefing me. They are ruining my enjoyment of the game because i cant progress on my mission to infect players. Bioware please remove the ability to not get infected! Sincerely, concerned subcriber Agreed and signed, 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wire_Razors Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 (edited) I actually had a situation where I accidentally infected nearby players. Thought I had much more time than I did. Most everyone laughed about it, but I offered everyone infected a vaccine free of charge. NOT A SINGLE PERSON took me up on the offer. NOT ONE. They laughed it off as no big deal. If I'd blown up in the mosh pit where everyone else was doing it, I wouldn't have offered it. You can make 5k credits (heck, 10k credits) in the time it takes you to post a complaint about the plague. My marauder got ganked one day the moment I logged in. I was in a "safe area." I didn't QQ about it, even though I didn't have a chance to defend myself due to the load screen, and was thus "forced to engage in content I didn't want" at the time. What did I do? I spent the 12k to repair my armor, and went about my business. I would have been ECSTATIC if that repair cost had only been 2k. Based on the logic on the QQ'ers in this thread id like to state that the people vaccinating themselves and trying to avoid me infecting them are griefing me. They are ruining my enjoyment of the game because i cant progress on my mission to infect players. Bioware please remove the ability to not get infected! Sincerely, concerned subcriber /signed Edited April 19, 2012 by Wire_Razors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehsaturn Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Based on the logic on the QQ'ers in this thread id like to state that the people vaccinating themselves and trying to avoid me infecting them are griefing me. They are ruining my enjoyment of the game because i cant progress on my mission to infect players. Bioware please remove the ability to not get infected! Sincerely, concerned subcriber Agreed, signed. People with vaccines ruin my gametime. /ragequit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhartel Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Based on the logic on the QQ'ers in this thread id like to state that the people vaccinating themselves and trying to avoid me infecting them are griefing me. They are ruining my enjoyment of the game because i cant progress on my mission to infect players. Bioware please remove the ability to not get infected! Sincerely, concerned subscriber Truth is spoken here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elhanan Posted April 19, 2012 Share Posted April 19, 2012 Not to put too fine a point on it; does this mean you're going to keep claiming in this thread that you're being griefed? Yes; thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhartel Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Yes; thank you. Good grief [/charliebrown] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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