Remove the rakghoul plague now

[ScarletBlaze]

Yes, we should all limit our playtime incase we happen to reach level 50 in four months. In truth it takes very little time to get to 50.

 

Might be true but I don't have a level 50 yet but I also don''t have alts either. But the decision not to be level 50 is mine alone and I have personal and real life reasons for that.

 

But you are correct for most can do it pretty easy but whether a person is level 50 or not really has no bearing on this issue.

[Lundli]

 

So technically BW encouraged a violation of their own rules by putting this game mechanic in the game.

 

 

Doesn't apply in his case, wich we showed him a few posts back, but he has so far chosen to ignore that

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lundli

[ScarletBlaze]

To the people who dislike the plague:

 

Do you realize if you participated in the dailies ONCE just to check it out and see what its all about, you would of earned enough free stims to last the whole week?

 

You get a bunch for free. I have like 15 in my inventory. So much I don't need them. So in the fleet I ask if anyone wants some for free..... Not one taker. Hmmm.

 

I dislike it and my reasons were mention a few pages back but you are right you can get the cure easily but it would make it better for some if the cure would last through death for a set amount of hours.

[Elhanan]

 

So technically BW encouraged a violation of their own rules by putting this game mechanic in the game.

 

 

No; don't blame Bioware for making a Plague mechanic; blame the Griefers for exploiting it in a Safe Area.

[Galbatorrix]

No; don't blame Bioware for making a Plague mechanic; blame the Griefers for exploiting it in a Safe Area.

 

What safe area? There are terminals and warning all over fleet for you to stay away from those infected. If you choose not to, again, it's your own fault. People can't choose to explode once you're in range of them, nor can they run up to you and explode. No one's griefing anyone.

[wainot-keel]

The event is awesome !! I'm having a blast with it !!!

Either by going to the fleet or to a FP, feverish

 

Good job, BW

[Enochx]

I cannot believe this post is still going. I would ask most of you if you wanted some cheese with your whine, but there aint' enough cheese in this world. some of these posts truly stagger the mind with how stupid they are.

 

I am officially dumber for reading some of these. Instead of removing the plague event, remove this godforesaken thread. For the love of all that is good, pure and holy in this world.....remove this thread.

[Miyaka]

 

So technically BW encouraged a violation of their own rules by putting this game mechanic in the game.

 

 

Mechanics are NOT being misused. They are being used exactly as intended. It isn't harassment or griefing or anything other playing the game as BioWare intended.

If the Fleet were truly a "safe zone" then there would be no way for players to get there while infected. The quest to infect people would only be valid on Tattooine.

IF the mechanics were not working as intended...they would have hot fixed it....or made a statement in favor of what you few are going on about.

 

They haven't "fixed" anything....because nothing is broken and nothing is being misused. Simply because you dislike something, doesn't make you a victim of some evil conspiracy to disrupt your game play.

You just don't like it.

And that's fine. You don't have to like it.

But making statements that BioWare is encouraging griefing or harassment is stupendously silly.

[Raeln]

No; should have, but it took me by surprise to be attacked in the Cantina area of the Fleet. This is why I encourage others, esp those with better Tech skills to Report it, and submit docs.

 

The rules say that I should have been asked for permission (ie; playing PvE), and the attack occured in a Safe Zone (ie; no PvP is supposed to be allowed). This appears to be a double whammy for the Griefer in question, and I hope to see such actions banned.

 

You were not attacked and the guys actions are completely sanctioned by Bioware. The other player was simply doing his daily quest to infect 10 other players.

 

Now, perhaps the infection should only apply to those that are PvP flagged, but then the scary-portion of a pandemic would have been lost. The point is to make people nervous if they don't want infection. It's not like getting infected permanently harms your character though. It's just a fun event. Relax.

[ibervang]

18 god damn attempts to get the custpmization for my companion, and I still havent gotten it. What a joke his is, so lame. And i cant do **** with the the extra's as they are bound and not worth anything.

[Urael]

To all that wish this thread would die,

 

Why do you continue to post in this thread?

 

Do you not realize that the majority of the fuel for continuing the thread comes from you?

 

Those of us on the other side are just making an attempt to rebut what you post?

 

Here is the score:

 

You like it. We don't.

 

Most of those who like it seem to like it for its "community building" aspects.

 

Most who don't like it really just want an OPT OUT method that is of no cost in time and treasure.

 

The secondary issue that arose was that of griefing.

 

Some say it is Some say it isn't.

 

In the end if SOMEONE from BW would just POST IN THIS THREAD you know like the guys do in the OTHER GAME.

 

We might get their thoughts on all the issues presented.

 

In the end I hope they are reading this very long 3 part thread.

 

Once again for the record:

I do NOT want events like this to be taken out of the game. I just hope that the feed back from this very long thread helps in someway to ensure that this doesn't happen again.

 

Oh if you disagree with me it might be a form of ....

Edited April 19, 2012 by Urael

[Aloro]

Part of the problem is that there may not be set PvP rules. But here is what I have found:

 

Actually, let's pause a moment and consider what you just said.

 

Leaving aside the typo (you wrote PvP but meant PvE), you're agreeing that in fact "there might not be set PvE rules". Which is to say, all of your complaints about how this is griefing because it violates the PvE rules were actually based on nothing at all.

 

Player vs. Environment (PvE) - In Star Wars™: The Old Republic™, Player vs. Environment servers serve as the "default." On these servers, you have the option to role-play as your character, and player- vs.- player fights must be agreed to by both sides. - New Player Guide

 

Infection is not combat. Combat has a very specific mechanical manifestation in this game, and there's no way to confuse it with something else. When you're in combat, some skills are available that are not otherwise, and vice versa.

 

You're choosing to interpret infection as combat because it serves your agenda, but this remains inaccurate.

 

3. Harass, threaten, embarrass, or do anything to another player that is unwanted. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated. (See also “Harassment Policy” below.) - Rules of Conduct

 

This goes back to my explanation of why what you're complaining about is not griefing. it is vitally important to distinguish between someone infecting you because they're just undertaking a quest, and someone infecting you in order to make you unhappy. The former is normal play, and the latter is griefing.

 

The later section on harassment makes this very clear, so I'll return to this point below.

 

20. Do anything that interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic and using the Service in accordance with its rules, or that materially increases the expense or difficulty of EA in maintaining the Service for the enjoyment of all its users.- RoC

 

I hope you'll agree that this is so vague as to be meaningless. One could just as easily argue that some players really love the event as it is, and love being able to infect people (intended gameplay) and so YOUR efforts in this and other threads to disrupt the event "interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic".

 

1. Harassment consists of misuse and/or abuse of game mechanics and verbal harassment with the intention of distressing and offending other players. Game mechanics allow players to interact with the world and each other. For example, the ability to block a doorway is a game mechanic. Use of game mechanics like these is by no means considered harassment in and of itself. The key to determining whether the mechanic is being misused or abused is to determine "intent." Reported incidents are not considered harassment until it is determined by the SWTOR CS that it was done to intentionally to cause distress or to offend other players. - RoC Harassment Policy

 

This is the crucial one. Let's start from the top. Note that I am speaking about people infecting others without chasing them down here; this is the basic case. I.e. player A happens to be in range of player B when player B explodes. Player B didn't hunt player A down, or otherwise directly control the infection.

 

Are the players in question misusing or abusing game mechanics? No, they're completing a quest by using the mechanics provided. Note that the timing of the explosion is not up to the player; it's random.

 

Are the players verbally harassing someone? That's not part of this discussion, so no. We're STRICTLY talking about whether being in range of someone else, then infecting them, is griefing.

 

Are the players doing what they're doing with the intent ion of distressing and offending other players? No. This is where your argument falls apart completely. The people I'm talking about aren't doing this to upset you; they're doing it to complete the quest, so they can get DNA samples, which they'll exchange for prizes. Your distress isn't part of the equation at all, from their point of view, because they aren't doing this TO you; they're doing this AROUND you. And that, right there, is enough to show that this isn't griefing.

 

5. Player versus Player (“PvP”) activities, where available, are not exempt from this policy.- RoC Harassment Policy

 

This is not PvP, in game terms, because that refers to combat. Infection is not the same as combat.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Aloro

[Raeln]

 

So technically BW encouraged a violation of their own rules by putting this game mechanic in the game.

 

 

Nope. They created the mechanic to work this way intentionally to spread panic among the playerbase over being infected.

 

There is no abuse of game mechanics but rather proper usage of game mechanics.

 

No one is exploiting some kind of bug to infect others - it's a game mechanic that Bioware proudly implemented for this 10 day event.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Raeln

[Raeln]

No; don't blame Bioware for making a Plague mechanic; blame the Griefers for exploiting it in a Safe Area.

 

Bioware intended for players to bring it back to the Fleet and "safe areas" - that was the whole point. If they didn't want it on the Fleet, they would have spawned super_kill_you_in_one_shot_guards in your docking bay / landing pad or created a cut scene where you were taken into custody and medically treated before being allowed access to the Fleet.

 

I know you will ignore this but Bioware WANTED players to do exactly what they are doing.

 

I'll say it again.

 

BIOWARE INTENDED FOR PLAYERS TO INFECT OTHER PLAYERS ON THE FLEETS.

[Urael]

Nope. They created the mechanic to work this way intentionally to spread panic among the playerbase over being infected.

 

There is no abuse of game mechanics but rather proper usage of game mechanics.

 

No is exploiting some kind of bug to infect others - it's a game mechanic that Bioware proudly implemented for this 10 day event.

 

This emote --->

 

Followed buy this emote ---->

 

USUALLY is recognised as a form of sarcastic humor.

 

Right?

 

Do I need to hold up a sarcasim sign?

 

*psst* yeah I did it again.

[DarknisFalls]

well heres a simple solution the the ones that dont want to get infected by this event and its really easy too, use the rakghoul vaccine and quit whinin about nothin. it doesnt cost you anything and its funny as hell to run up and blow up on people lmao! so you dont want to do the blow up daily then spend 2k creds (and thats not that much) and by the vaccine and use and stop whinning!! Edited April 19, 2012 by DarknisFalls

[Elhanan]

Actually, let's pause a moment and consider what you just said.

 

Leaving aside the typo (you wrote PvP but meant PvE), you're agreeing that in fact "there might not be set PvE rules". Which is to say, all of your complaints about how this is griefing because it violates the PvE rules were actually based on nothing at all.

 

Infection is not a fight. Combat has a very specific mechanical manifestation in this game, and there's no way to confuse it with something else. When you're in combat, some skills are available that are not otherwise, and vice versa.

 

You're choosing to interpret infection as combat because it serves your agenda, but this remains inaccurate.

 

This goes back to my explanation of why what you're complaining about is not griefing. it is vitally important to distinguish between someone infecting you because they're just undertaking a quest, and someone infecting you in order to make you unhappy. The former is normal play, and the latter is griefing.

 

The later section on harassment makes this very clear, so I'll return to this point below.

 

I hope you'll agree that this is so vague as to be meaningless. One could just as easily argue that some players really love the event as it is, and love being able to infect people (intended gameplay) and so YOUR efforts in this and other threads to disrupt the event "interferes with the ability of other Service users to enjoy playing Star Wars: The Old Republic".

 

This is the crucial one. Let's start from the top. Note that I am speaking about people infecting others without chasing them down here; this is the basic case. I.e. player A happens to be in range of player B when player B explodes. Player B didn't hunt player A down, or otherwise directly control the infection.

 

Are the players in question misusing or abusing game mechanics? No, they're completing a quest by using the mechanics provided. Note that the timing of the explosion is not up to the player; it's random.

 

Are the player verbally harassing someone? That's not part of this discussion, so no. We're STRICTLY talking about whether being in range of someone else, then infecting them, is griefing.

 

Are the players doing what they're doing with the intent ion of distressing and offending other players? No. This is where your argument falls apart completely. The people I'm talking about aren't doing this to upset you; they're doing it to complete the quest, so they can get DNA samples, which they'll exchange for prizes. Your distress isn't part of the equation at all, from their point of view, because they aren't doing this TO you; they're doing this AROUND you. And that, right there, is enough to show that this isn't griefing.

 

This is not PvP, in game terms, because that refers to combat. Infection is not the same as combat.

 

No typo; there does not appear to be a set list of PvP Rules in SWTOR, though I was able to find some written on other sites. As attacking, exploding, blowing their nose, etc (ie; an AoE effect) on my character would appear to ve included within PvP rules, I went seeking same.

 

Of all the places this Player had to go to complete their Mission, they chose to be on the Fleet (ie; common Safe area) in the Cantina area (ie; another supposed Safe Area) at he cargo and Med bay area ((ie; yet another supposed Safe Area).

 

It is my hope that Bioware will halt this in this and future Events; not fun for me and some others.

[Urael]

Bioware intended for players to bring it back to the Fleet and "safe areas" - that was the whole point. If they didn't want it on the Fleet, they would have spawned super_kill_you_in_one_shot_guards in your docking bay / landing pad or created a cut scene where you were taken into custody and medically treated before being allowed access to the Fleet.

 

I know you will ignore this but Bioware WANTED players to do exactly what they are doing.

 

I'll say it again.

 

BIOWARE INTENDED FOR PLAYERS TO INFECT OTHER PLAYERS ON THE FLEETS.

 

Ok wait.

 

Um they failed then.

 

Yes the devs may have wanted what happened to have happened. But the Story Writers clearly didn't make this the goal of either government. The Goal should have been containment.

 

Mixed messaged. Poorly executed.

 

The plague must be contained! *wink wink*

*silently mouthing* "no we are kidding spread it".

 

[Raeln]

Ok wait.

 

Um they failed then.

 

Yes the devs may have wanted what happened to have happened. But the Story Writers clearly didn't make this the goal of either government. The Goal should have been containment.

 

Mixed messaged. Poorly executed.

 

The plague must be contained! *wink wink*

*silently mouthing* "no we are kidding spread it".

 

 

Have you not paid attention to the story? Both faction's military resources are stretched thin - they don't have the numbers to protect everyone from the plague on all the planets. They do have guards on the Fleet that spawn and they spawn according to your level so you can handle them and not feel helpless. I've rode through them on my Trooper and in the case of my level 11 smuggler, killed the Fleet guards that tried to stop me from leaving the Fleet.

 

I might add that I thought that part was awesome and made me feel like a real smuggler, running from the law.

[Elhanan]

Would like to thank all involved for making this thread the Number One Google Result for Rakghoul Plague SWTOR

 

Could not have done this w/o you! Perhaps more attention to various concerns may now be brought to light!

 

ED: for corrrect listing; auto-corrected on entry.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Elhanan

[Urael]

Would like to thank all involved for making this thread the Number One Google Result for SWTOR Rak. Plague! Could not have done this w/o you! Perhaps more attention to various concerns may now be brought to light.

 

 

LOL Seriously?

[Lundli]

Would like to thank all involved for making this thread the Number One Google Result for Rakghoul Plague SWTOR

 

Could not have done this w/o you! Perhaps more attention to various concerns may now be brought to light!

 

Yes, that is how it works. And, no I doubt it. Perhaps someone like Jef Reahard will pick up on it just to spew some more gall on this game.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Lundli

[Aloro]

No typo; there does not appear to be a set list of PvP Rules in SWTOR, though I was able to find some written on other sites. As attacking, exploding, blowing their nose, etc (ie; an AoE effect) on my character would appear to ve included within PvP rules, I went seeking same.

 

Attacking other players would be within PvP rules. Blowing one's nose at them, or emoting at them, or sending them tells, or infecting them with the rakghoul virus would not be within PvP rules, because those are not attacks.

 

Of all the places this Player had to go to complete their Mission, they chose to be on the Fleet (ie; common Safe area) in the Cantina area (ie; another supposed Safe Area) at he cargo and Med bay area ((ie; yet another supposed Safe Area).

 

I'm unsure why you keep calling these places Safe Areas. This seems to be something you invented, much like the PvE rules that you feel are being violated. Bioware doesn't call them Safe Areas, with or without the capitalization, that I'm aware of. In game, there are references to Rest Areas, which are defined relative to their effects on rest exp. I don't recall seeing anything to indicate that the fleet is supposed to be a place where nobody can interact with you at all in any sense without your permission. Indeed, I don't recall seeing that this is intended to be true anywhere in game.

 

But yes, players are choosing to gather on the fleets. Why is this? Did they gather there because they knew it would upset you, or did they gather there because they thought it would be a fun and/or convenient way to complete their quest?

 

The difference is all-important here. As I keep pointing out, you cannot call something harassment or griefing - according to the very quotes you provided above by the devs - unless you can establish INTENT to cause distress. And that simply does not exist here, by and large.

 

It is my hope that Bioware will halt this in this and future Events; not fun for me and some others.

 

It is my hope that Bioware will make future opt-out options both free and persistent.

[Urael]

It is my hope that Bioware will halt this in this and future Events; not fun for me and some others.

 

Dude no. *shakes head*

 

This ...v

It is my hope that Bioware will make future opt-out options both free and persistent.

 

[Subatia]

Would like to thank all involved for making this thread the Number One Google Result for Rakghoul Plague SWTOR

 

Could not have done this w/o you! Perhaps more attention to various concerns may now be brought to light!

 

ED: for corrrect listing; auto-corrected on entry.

 

I'm sure it will impress people who come in here to see half-a-dozen people screaming "OMG MAH GAEM IZ RUIND CUZ I XPLOED ONCE EVRY 20 MINATS" and 50 people giving 100 different ways to deal with it.

 

The only person stopping you from enjoying the game is you.