no more troppers in OPS in my guild

[nexusbob]

yep no more troppers in OPS eny more - the DPS sux balls to all other class -- baa i love my tropper but i can see it from the guild side and dps side - me and 2 other commandos never goen on eny ops after thes - so we just roll one of the 2 OP class in sted - nice done BIO on kill the class -- make 1170DPS wer all other even the healers make more dps then tropper at lest in the combatlogs from nightmear KP and EV and the new OPS rest of the raid make stedy 1300-1600DPS healers on som boss can make 1266dps stedy so thnx BIO - stell goen stick to my commando but only raids on my JK for the DPS Edited April 18, 2012 by nexusbob

[jbuschell]

Down with troppers!

[kangasaur]

yep no more troppers in OPS eny more - the DPS sux balls to all other class -- baa i love my tropper but i can see it from the guild side and dps side - me and 2 other commandos never goen on eny ops after thes - so we just roll one of the 2 OP class in sted - nice done BIO on kill the class -- make 1170DPS wer all other even the healers make more dps then tropper at lest in the combatlogs from nightmear KP and EV and the new OPS rest of the raid make stedy 1300-1600DPS healers on som boss can make 1266dps stedy so thnx BIO - stell goen stick to my commando but only raids on my JK for the DPS

 

First, ouch my eyes from trying to read/translate that blob of words.

 

OT, I'm a Gunnery Commando and I'm keeping up just fine with my guild's DPS which has a mix of classes...Your DPS seems low though...are you sure you're doing a good priority rotation/resource management? What kind of gear are you wearing/where are your stats at.

[Paelonic]

This was really... REALLY hard to read.

[ounkeo]

I'm sorry but I am not seeing the kind of DPS loss that people are claiming on either my trooper or Bounty Hunter. So far as I have seen, the DPS works out similarly. It's just distributed more.

 

Also, people have said survivability was down. Something I have not seen whatsoever.

[Macroecon]

Regardless of the grammar, or lack thereof, by the OP there is a point here. BH/Trooper dps is the lowest of all the dps classes. In PvP there can be a semi-justification for this because the BH/Trooper can shift its targeting faster than melee classes. Thus after disposing of one target it has less downtime than the melee before it begins damaging its next target. Even then this is of minimal use in warzones with tight engagement distances.

 

But in endgame PvE, this advantage is restricted to engagements with trash mobs. Which are trivial. Against boss mobs which are the crux of endgame ops, the BH/Trooper is a handicap to the group. Yes a group can be successful with a BH/Trooper, but that's only because the other teammates are carrying him. In the long run, the group is better off without the BH/Trooper.

[Arthug]

yep no more troppers in OPS eny more - the DPS sux balls to all other class -- baa i love my tropper but i can see it from the guild side and dps side - me and 2 other commandos never goen on eny ops after thes - so we just roll one of the 2 OP class in sted - nice done BIO on kill the class -- make 1170DPS wer all other even the healers make more dps then tropper at lest in the combatlogs from nightmear KP and EV and the new OPS rest of the raid make stedy 1300-1600DPS healers on som boss can make 1266dps stedy so thnx BIO - stell goen stick to my commando but only raids on my JK for the DPS

 

can i see these logs on a healer doing 1266dps on a raid boss let alone other classes pulling 1600 dps

[Aethyriel]

I'm sorry but I am not seeing the kind of DPS loss that people are claiming on either my trooper or Bounty Hunter. So far as I have seen, the DPS works out similarly. It's just distributed more.

 

Also, people have said survivability was down. Something I have not seen whatsoever.

 

just stop right there. You can't win this. You can either be against it or troll, in class forums the use of sound logic and actual data is prohibited and will be punished by reaction to your post with horrible grammar in a language you think you don't know until you realize it's meant to be english. Further, specifically for BH and Trooper DPS AC, the nerf to tracer missile and power shot is not balanced out by the buff to Heatseeker missile (yeah i know it hits crazy high now bt it doesn't matter because tracer Missile got nerfed) and even more so the increased chance to proc the single best dps ability before 1.2 - Unload (and the rep counterpart) (once again it doesn't matter that unload > tracer and mre unload = more dps, because tracer missile got nerfed).

 

To summarize: lulz trac0r missile nurf me class broken QQ lol bio gg /gamequit /unsub idc i got buffz no buffz cause tracer missile nurf QQ.

[darthsasha]

just stop right there. You can't win this. You can either be against it or troll, in class forums the use of sound logic and actual data is prohibited and will be punished by reaction to your post with horrible grammar in a language you think you don't know until you realize it's meant to be english. Further, specifically for BH and Trooper DPS AC, the nerf to tracer missile and power shot is not balanced out by the buff to Heatseeker missile (yeah i know it hits crazy high now bt it doesn't matter because tracer Missile got nerfed) and even more so the increased chance to proc the single best dps ability before 1.2 - Unload (and the rep counterpart) (once again it doesn't matter that unload > tracer and mre unload = more dps, because tracer missile got nerfed).

 

To summarize: lulz trac0r missile nurf me class broken QQ lol bio gg /gamequit /unsub idc i got buffz no buffz cause tracer missile nurf QQ.

I loled. Thank you )))

[Jetflair]

I'm sorry but I am not seeing the kind of DPS loss that people are claiming on either my trooper or Bounty Hunter. So far as I have seen, the DPS works out similarly. It's just distributed more.

 

Also, people have said survivability was down. Something I have not seen whatsoever.

 

I think main reason is premades. They activated by huge numbers because patch.n Most of time Warzones propably had people who grinded for champion/battlemaster gear at average just before patch.

 

So before batch most Warzones were pug vs pug affairs with people grinding either Champion or BM gear. When patch game there was far more premades with full BM+ gear vs pugs. These premades had far higher dps than pugs because better gear and co-ordination.

 

Thats why also those who had enough expertise and good gear already don't notice any drop in their survivability.

From their perspective their relative position hasn't changed at all.

 

it has changed on those whose opponents just got upgraded what comes to gear and pvp skills.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Jetflair

[salamanderx]

Although I encourage you guys to get us more dps etc, I'm still topping the damage charts in the 10-49 matches.

 

I had to change my spec for the changes but I have 90% armor penetration on my HIB, and have most of the add ons for stock strike too. Ive gone with specializing in a few attacks rather than spreading out too much. I think the major thing is that I always run ion cell, since the key to doing more damage is staying alive to do it.

 

I'm not saying this to brag etc, I really think that BW wont be boosting us so you'd better adapt and I'll help if possible.

 

Oh yea, should mention I'm playing vangard, not commando btw.

Edited April 19, 2012 by salamanderx

[Thankyjack]

The irony is that guilds which refuse to take a specific class to be "elite," never clear content. Guilds that take the player instead of the class do just fine.

 

The top guilds in the world for PvE content clear everything before they even have the gear to do so. They just know how to play, are coordinated, pay attention and are willing to wipe again, again and again to get it done (I know this from experience).

 

All of the guilds that focus on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the classes are just trying to rationalize their failure. I would take your trooper and look for a guild that wants to raid with you (the player not the toon).

[Centaurius]

The irony is that guilds which refuse to take a specific class to be "elite," never clear content. Guilds that take the player instead of the class do just fine.

 

The top guilds in the world for PvE content clear everything before they even have the gear to do so. They just know how to play, are coordinated, pay attention and are willing to wipe again, again and again to get it done (I know this from experience).

 

All of the guilds that focus on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the classes are just trying to rationalize their failure. I would take your trooper and look for a guild that wants to raid with you (the player not the toon).

 

if he talks the way he types that may be an awful tall order:)

[Philosomanic]

The irony is that guilds which refuse to take a specific class to be "elite," never clear content. Guilds that take the player instead of the class do just fine.

 

The top guilds in the world for PvE content clear everything before they even have the gear to do so. They just know how to play, are coordinated, pay attention and are willing to wipe again, again and again to get it done (I know this from experience).

 

All of the guilds that focus on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the classes are just trying to rationalize their failure. I would take your trooper and look for a guild that wants to raid with you (the player not the toon).

 

I agree with this. I believe that Bioware has done a great job balancing all the classes in terms of DPS/utility. There are small differences, but in general they're all competitive. The key is which class fits your play style the best.

 

I have a friend who's a great Gunslinger, and he cuts a swathe through enemies in both PvP and PvE. He's one of the few people who can consistently challenge me in a duel. In his hands, Gunslinger is a great class. However, I gave gunslinger a try once, and it just felt wrong for me. I guarantee that with all else being equal, he could pull far more DPS, react faster, and coordinate better with a Gunslinger than I ever could.

 

Even though Gunslinger might objectively have higher DPS than Vanguard, I'll help my team out much more on my Vanguard or my Shadow than I ever could on my Gunslinger. Someone who is playing the class that fits them will be far better than someone stuck with a class they don't like because it's the "best".

 

Whenever I see someone saying that their class is broken or it sucks, I think the problem is that they're playing the wrong class. So if your'e not playing your trooper anymore, that's fine. I hope you find the class that fits you best. Since this class doesn't fit you, you probably could lose to a healer in DPS. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are like that.

[smilinghuman]

Our guild has been running parses on everything we do and breaking them out to spreadsheets to analyse fights. We are one of the top 16 man guilds in the world. We have 4 Gunnery troopers and they are putting out 1000 to 1100 OPS fight DPS on average. We have full tier one BiS and we work endlessly with variations of equipment and theory crafting to dial in the class. Sages are pulling 1300 to 1400 DPS, Gunslingers are pulling 1100 to 1200 DPS. Sentinals are pulling 1500 DPS becuase they need to throttle themselves to keep from ripping agro. This is over the course of entire fights in EC HM. This was the DPS before todays Demo round fix, so that vortexs on a target no longer stack for it from other players. In the new content on HM we are coming within 100K on wipes and when that happens leadership starts looking at total damage done numbers and wondering how to get the classes in that can finish the job.

 

The nerf to commandos hit on too many levels at one time

 

3% from our crit talent taken

 

3 points in the talent tree taken by causing two other things to lose their bonuses and increasing GR cast time

Ammo regeneration reduced by increasing the cost of grav round while simultaneously stealing the talent point that reduced its cost and making it simply put GR back at 1.5 second cast instead of 2.

 

Grav round now hits for much less is more expensive and cannot be taken out of the rotation. Nothing in the rotation changed, you have to put the armor debuff down and you have to drop GR at least 5x between Demo round and HiB. So no change except now the ammo regen is terrible.

 

Full Auto proc is nice but ironically it goes off so much that often you can't get your GR in 5x before HiB goes back out meaning it is soft on DPS too. Also you can't NOT send your HiB out as it recovers your ammo lol.

 

Nothing has changed in the rotation, but as a pure RDPS class I am now the weakest of all classes that get brought to raids. There are worse advance classes for DPS but you wont' find them being played by serious players.

 

In a nutshell these nerfs are so hard that I am not sure I am going to be allowed to continue playing with my raiding guild. I am not enjoying the Commando and I don't know how much longer I am going to be playing. It's not really up to me, its up to Bioware and my guild leader.

[rossfenwick]

Our guild has been running parses on everything we do and breaking them out to spreadsheets to analyse fights. We are one of the top 16 man guilds in the world. We have 4 Gunnery troopers and they are putting out 1000 to 1100 OPS fight DPS on average. We have full tier one BiS and we work endlessly with variations of equipment and theory crafting to dial in the class. Sages are pulling 1300 to 1400 DPS, Gunslingers are pulling 1100 to 1200 DPS. Sentinals are pulling 1500 DPS becuase they need to throttle themselves to keep from ripping agro. This is over the course of entire fights in EC HM. This was the DPS before todays Demo round fix, so that vortexs on a target no longer stack for it from other players. In the new content on HM we are coming within 100K on wipes and when that happens leadership starts looking at total damage done numbers and wondering how to get the classes in that can finish the job.

 

The nerf to commandos hit on too many levels at one time

 

3% from our crit talent taken

 

3 points in the talent tree taken by causing two other things to lose their bonuses and increasing GR cast time

Ammo regeneration reduced by increasing the cost of grav round while simultaneously stealing the talent point that reduced its cost and making it simply put GR back at 1.5 second cast instead of 2.

 

Grav round now hits for much less is more expensive and cannot be taken out of the rotation. Nothing in the rotation changed, you have to put the armor debuff down and you have to drop GR at least 5x between Demo round and HiB. So no change except now the ammo regen is terrible.

 

Full Auto proc is nice but ironically it goes off so much that often you can't get your GR in 5x before HiB goes back out meaning it is soft on DPS too. Also you can't NOT send your HiB out as it recovers your ammo lol.

 

Nothing has changed in the rotation, but as a pure RDPS class I am now the weakest of all classes that get brought to raids. There are worse advance classes for DPS but you wont' find them being played by serious players.

 

In a nutshell these nerfs are so hard that I am not sure I am going to be allowed to continue playing with my raiding guild. I am not enjoying the Commando and I don't know how much longer I am going to be playing. It's not really up to me, its up to Bioware and my guild leader.

 

Shouldn't your grav round stack twice with one hit? Or am I misreading the talent tree?

[Songwhistle]

k all my gear is rakata with exception to 2 pieces - meaning relics on par with rakata, implants and all. im running with a 5/31/5 skilltree setup to maximize dps.

 

I've tried all sorts of combos several raids and i can come no where near others in raid - entire raid using MOX parser. I've basically been told to reroll because it is useless to have dps doing only half the damage it used to. Guild leader is saying he knows i can dps and do it well but just feels sad that he has to say this because not meeting enrage timers on new bosses is NOT ok.

 

And for the peeps thinking - yeah right this guy has no clue and simply spams grav round. This is not the case i am litterally trying all and everything.

 

i can hit 1024 dps on the pvp fight in KP nightmare. however i have then burned all my ammo and can more or less do nothing for the next 30 seconds. meaning in a sustained fight im useless. the general average dps i deliver on a longer fight than that is roughly 700.

 

Gotta say i love the class but this is just rediculous. i can understand if you nerf one spell but continuesly nerfing different aspects of the commando in several sub patches is not ok. So i guees ill reroll to another class and if that doesn't suit my playstyle i guess you got one less person to worry about because being excluded from raids due to a patch really sux.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Songwhistle
forgot to put average dps.

[Fafryd]

This is actually highly important. DPS specs in equivalent gear need to delivery similar outcomes.

 

It's GREAT that we now at least have the tools to be able to understand the relativities with precision.

[sensiblepoast]

I agree with this. I believe that Bioware has done a great job balancing all the classes in terms of DPS/utility. There are small differences, but in general they're all competitive. The key is which class fits your play style the best. .

 

Really? Seriously?

 

Is that why I constently end up warzones with 0 deaths and top 3 damage as a sage without much of a sweat, as opposed to my commando?

[banehammer]

just stop right there. You can't win this. You can either be against it or troll, in class forums the use of sound logic and actual data is prohibited and will be punished by reaction to your post with horrible grammar in a language you think you don't know until you realize it's meant to be english. Further, specifically for BH and Trooper DPS AC, the nerf to tracer missile and power shot is not balanced out by the buff to Heatseeker missile (yeah i know it hits crazy high now bt it doesn't matter because tracer Missile got nerfed) and even more so the increased chance to proc the single best dps ability before 1.2 - Unload (and the rep counterpart) (once again it doesn't matter that unload > tracer and mre unload = more dps, because tracer missile got nerfed).

 

To summarize: lulz trac0r missile nurf me class broken QQ lol bio gg /gamequit /unsub idc i got buffz no buffz cause tracer missile nurf QQ.

 

I'm printing out this post and putting it on my wall

Thats gold

[PanzerJagdhund]

I find this post kinda funny, cause I am pulling 1.3k-1.4k dps on my Commando.

[Naviss]

Was a sad day to see another nerf to the Gunny spec. My demo round was up to 6,800 non crit on a full 5 stack Vortex.

 

Now I can only get a 4.1k damage on a CRIT! Mostly only get 2.5K. I've since stopped using Demo round, As my Grav round crits more and hits for 2.9k.

 

I'm almost thinking a hybrid spec maybe our only bet now days? Sadly though I've lost my raid spot. Since I'm told they'd rather have a healer dps now and then and heal then waste a spot on lack of damage from.

 

I'm in Full Rak, And some pieces black hole and new raid armor. (Before today's nerf.)

Edited April 20, 2012 by Naviss

[Songwhistle]

I agree with this. I believe that Bioware has done a great job balancing all the classes in terms of DPS/utility. There are small differences, but in general they're all competitive. The key is which class fits your play style the best.

 

I have a friend who's a great Gunslinger, and he cuts a swathe through enemies in both PvP and PvE. He's one of the few people who can consistently challenge me in a duel. In his hands, Gunslinger is a great class. However, I gave gunslinger a try once, and it just felt wrong for me. I guarantee that with all else being equal, he could pull far more DPS, react faster, and coordinate better with a Gunslinger than I ever could.

 

Even though Gunslinger might objectively have higher DPS than Vanguard, I'll help my team out much more on my Vanguard or my Shadow than I ever could on my Gunslinger. Someone who is playing the class that fits them will be far better than someone stuck with a class they don't like because it's the "best".

 

Whenever I see someone saying that their class is broken or it sucks, I think the problem is that they're playing the wrong class. So if your'e not playing your trooper anymore, that's fine. I hope you find the class that fits you best. Since this class doesn't fit you, you probably could lose to a healer in DPS. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are like that.

 

great! try rolling a commando not a vanguard - then spec it gunnery for pve and use mox parser then read the actual post and reply then. sorry for the harsh words but this entire thread is about commando gunnery spec being nerfed.

[sensiblepoast]

I'm in Full Rak, And some pieces black hole and new raid armor. (Before today's nerf.)

 

PVE armor in inconsequential.

[Vrycey]

we see the same on bounty hunter mercenary side... mercs aren't wanted in ops no more

people who don't raid hm with a merc stating the nerfs ain't bad... ofc they don't play the class

 

btw. balancing classes is more then only comparing dps only

the nerfed classes were supposed to do more dmg then other classes cus besides dmg they can't do anything to help the raid. They don't have an interrupt, no speed activation buff, only 1 cc break with an immense long cooldown.

 

This needs to be reverted.