What is wrong with Snipers?

[Chaori]

I am in a guild with 500 members, currently 45 of which are level 50. Not one of the 45 level 50s in the guild is a Sniper. Also, when pugging DPS for HM EV/KP, the one class we are never able to find is a Sniper. Not having one myself, I was wondering why there seems to be such a shortage of this class in the game.

 

Do people not find Snipers as fun as other classes? Is it purely because they have less mobility than other classes? If they are not fun, what could be changed to make them a more popular class?

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 17, 2012 by Chaori

[erei]

-They are not force users. Many, many people play a sith, and many a jedi.

-There is no "imperial agent" character in the movie. While every other classes is represented on screen. Even the trooper is represented with Clone Wars (some heroes are trooper, not sure about the name, but Rex should be one of them).

-lack of mobility. Many fight needs you to move.

[Katreyn]

Personally I found Sniper to not have a very good survival rate at 40+. Squishy up close and on top of that, the damage output was questionable against a lot of mobs. Should be considered I was Marksman, and changed to Saboteur, or whatever the explosives tree is and that helped a lot, but was still odd.

 

Have the same problem on Gunslinger as well. :/

 

Tried Scoundrel and Operative, and it worked A LOT better. It could also just be I was bad at playing Sniper though. xD

 

edit: should be noted I REALLY wanted to like my Sniper. I mean, I loved the Imperial agent story and Sniper was fun with my friends. But I couldn't solo at all at higher levels, which turned out to be a burden for me since a lot of my friends quit.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Katreyn

[Parthis]

Agents are probably the least popular imperial class, and it'd make sense that the Sniper is the least popular AC; it's a single-role character, and not only that, but a ranged one to boot.

 

We had a couple of Sniper DPS in our Ops group, both said it was reasonably fun is a little repetitive. neither of them are playing now.

[Trooper_One]

I've personally been having a blast with my Sniper. Maybe it's just me.

[Maniigoldo]

I am in a guild with 500 members, currently 45 of which are level 50. Not one of the 45 level 50s in the guild is a Sniper. Also, when pugging DPS for HM EV/KP, the one class we are never able to find is a Sniper. Not having one myself, I was wondering why there seems to be such a shortage of this class in the game.

 

Do people not find Snipers as fun as other classes? Is it purely because they have less mobility than other classes? If they are not fun, what could be changed to make them a more popular class?

 

Thoughts?

 

sniper is a broken class pvp

many bugs,pretictable class easy to counter

 

most ppl rerolled eaze mode sentinels/marau commandos/mercs

[Chaori]

Personally I enjoy classes that are a little more difficult to play, might have to give Sniper a shot and help even out the numbers

[Qoojo]

I have a level 50 sniper, and I think there could be two issues that cause many people to leave. #1, not much AE worth using beside grenade and at level 48, Orbital strike. So you have to kill everything 1 by 1 for the most part. #2, the static nature of positioning in PvP. So if the other team decides to focus on you with 2 or 3 players, you don't have too many options at hand, unless your cool downs are available. If you are left alone, then you can be a wrecking ball. After you kill people a3 or 4 times in WZ, they start to pay attention to you heh.

 

But having to kill stuff 1 by 1 in PvE can be real trying on the patience, and in the 40s, things get real monotonous as you go through the same rotation. The only thing that kept me going was the story.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Qoojo

[Chaori]

I have a level 50 sniper, and I think there could be two issues that cause many people to leave. #1, not much AE worth using until level 48 and Orbital strike and grenade. So you have to kill everything 1 by 1 for the most part. #2, the static nature of positioning in PvP. So if the other team decides to focus on you with 2 or 3 players, you don't have too many options at hand, unless your cool downs are available. If you are left alone, then you can be a wrecking ball. After you kill people a3 or 4 times in WZ, they start to pay attention to you heh.

 

But having to kill stuff 1 by 1 in PvE can be real trying on the patience, and in the 40s, things get real monotonous as you go through the same rotation. The only thing that kept me going was the story.

 

So is it just the PvP at level 50 that's a let down? If I was only going to do PvE would you recommend a Sniper?

[WoodChipper]

snipers is more of a support class and not a solo/lead class like jedi or sith which means they would need others to be successful

[Qoojo]

So is it just the PvP at level 50 that's a let down? If I was only going to do PvE would you recommend a Sniper?

 

I don't really do much at level 50, but start another alt. So don't go by me

 

As far as PvE goes, definitely play at least one imperial agent for the story, whether it's operative or sniper doesn't really matter. PvE plays a lot like a single target wizard class. By that I mean you are ranged, and you go through a rotation to maximize DPS. You also have some skills for CC, and a knockback to help keep melee off of you.

 

I PvP'ed a lot with the sniper while leveling, and some nights you get left alone and tear people apart, and other nights people remember you like you kicked the dog, and ate the last batch of cookies.

Edited April 17, 2012 by Qoojo

[michaelra]

I have a level 50 Sniper and yeah what these guys said is true.

PvE rocks though. PvP is tough but it depends, you just have to be smart. When someone targets you, run to a friend or unleash your utilities to take him down

 

I haven't played it again for a while though because I'm rolling other toons. Not sure how it is after 1.2

[Vitellius]

I love my 50 mm sniper. However, there are a few frustrations with the class. Since a lot of people are whiny cry babies that realize sniper isn't easy mode, they quit so they can face roll in pvp. A sniper can piss a lot of people off if done right, but they have to work extra hard as this doesnt happen until they have much better gear. Snipers DO have some issues with mobility, dps out put and survivabilty in some situations. I'd kill for a temp stealth move.

 

If you want a challenge and something different, put down the glow sticks and try sniper.

[Knockerz]

I was going to make my sniper my main when I first started playing this game during the first 2 weeks, but the class started to lag behind as you level up. It's impractical to need to drop to cover before you can cast your main abilities. At least with a sage or a trooper you don't have this requirement.

 

A good comparison with the sniper class is a jedi knight guardian. You start off doing low damage as a jedi knight relative speaking to a sniper, but as you level the sniper gets no useful defensive cd, you immobility becomes problematic, and you do less damage. I'm comparing my jedi knight guardian that was using vendor mods to my sniper that was using cybertech mods up to date to her level. Thus, the sniper had better gear due o mods and better itemization and still does does less damage than my jedi knight for the same level. Where as my jedi knight when she had no healer companion felt like two strong mobs and 1 weak one was very tough on my sniper it's very very tough to survive.

 

Personally, I don't think getting the doc will make much of a difference for my sniper. If I do get a doc I will lose tank/dps and things will die slower and judging by how hard mobs are hitting probably won't last. I can't run around like on my sage or commando to kite mobs cause of the poor cover mechanic. That is the main reason I haven't bother with leveling my sniper unless I want to try to kite not using my hard hitting abilities. Basically, you can't heal or tank so your get screwed on strong/elite mob groups.

 

In pvp don't get me started I rather play a sage/trooper than a sniper due to not having to deal with the cover mechanic.

 

I will probably finish leveling that sniper when I'm done leveling all my other characters, but at moment I don't see my self playing a sniper until the cover mechanic is removed or modified to be inline with the other range classes. I always felt the cover should be a bonus mechanic and not a requirement for using your main abilities.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Knockerz

[hadoken]

The nice thing about being a sniper in pvp is there's so few of us people ignore us thinking we're weak. We're certainly not, when left alone.

[Tenacity]

The lack of snipers is one reason I created one. I originally rolled my agent (bastet) as an operative, but I absolutely hated the operative playstyle - what kind of military trained individual using a blaster RIFLE would run up to point blank range to use any rifle attacks, or forgo the rifle in favor of stabbing someone? Beyond that, why would a character who has what is SUPPOSED to be a long range weapon trying to take on lightsaber-wielding, force-enhanced jedi (or sith) with dinky little vibroknives?

 

So I rerolled sniper. One thing our guild (which is the top endgame pve progression guild on Namadii Corridor) learned very early on is that ranged dps is -always- better than melee dps for operations groups. There are so many anti-melee mechanics in endgame pve that it's just stupid to try and play a melee dps class when ranged can do the same job better and doesnt have to screw around with anti-melee mechanics.

 

Anyways, with all that out of the way, there are a few key reasons why snipers are not popular (or agents, for that matter):

 

1. Imperial Agents, Snipers, and Operatives have no link to the movies. The closest thing we've got is a Kubaz informant that had a total of 5 seconds or so of screentime during episode IV: a new hope that told the imperial stormtroopers where solo'd ship was parked. Beyond that, there's just no main characters that people can draw inspiration from when playing an imperial agent.

 

2. People like force users. People like lightsabers. The vast majority of players in this game are using the four force-wielding classes, because those classes make you feel like you can take on anything. This fact alone draws a lot of play away from the blaster-wielding classes.

 

3. Snipers are hard to play - the cover mechanic absolutely sucks, there are a TON of glitches and bugs with the cover system right now (for example, entrench and ballistic dampeners only last 1 second if used with natural cover, rather than their proper duration). Cover is a cool concept, but Bioware did a terrible job of implementing it here. It's especially rough in pvp, where much sturdier melee classes can beat the crap out of you while you're essentially rooted in place if you want to use any of your own abilities - other ranged classes can keep on the move and kite melee opponents, snipers dont have that luxury.

 

4. Levelling is rough. Snipers - due to the cover system, the levels at which you get certain companion types, and the extreme lack of survivability - are difficult to level up and at certain level ranges (in the early 30's and 40's) it feels like you have no stopping power at all; enemies just tear you apart, some enemies constantly knock you out of cover, and abilities which you 'should' be immune to with entrench active (like charge or grapple/pull) still work on you when used by non-player enemies. Soloing as a sniper is just a pain in the arse, and that causes a lot of players that create one to give up on it before they ever reach 50.

 

 

Snipers and Gunslingers were a lot more popular during beta testing, when tanking companions had +60% armor as well as additional health over what they've got now. The tanking companion nerf at the end of beta made it much more difficult to solo with either class, and you dont get a healing companion until after taris in the mid 30's. DPS companions, similarly, are pretty useless without high end gear, which you usually dont spend a lot of cash on while levelling up - our tanking companions cant use the same gear we do either (as opposed to tanking companions for troopers and bounty hunters, which use the exact same gear type that the character does).

 

 

 

 

Anyways, if you're wanting to play a class that is severely underplayed, go ahead and roll one. Once you get to level 50, snipers really come into their own, they pull off some awesome damage in endgame pve (and even pvp) when geared and played properly.

Edited April 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[Toroi]

I can probably give some insight as to why they are played less. My sniper is now level 48 and I have a level 50 BH mercenary, and the difference is dramatic. I played the BH first and leveling was easy with my healing companion right from the start. You don't get heals on the sniper until much much later in the game.

 

Quick comparison, BH has heals from the start, heavy armor, good single target damage, range, good AoE fairly early on and good CC (including a one min CC for those pesky elites). Sniper, gets . . . a good AoE at level 48, a few very short CC and knockbacks, medium armor, heals late in the game, good single target damage. Oh and you are stuck in cover and have no escape moves.

 

Basically, I love the story, but the sniper is just soooo solo unfriendly while leveling compared to any other class I've tried. I think people just give up on it and try something easier. For sure, I've considered dropping it a few times, especially after a few too many trips to the med center. I may try it for a while at 50 and see how it goes, but am likely to go back to the much more survivable BH for dailies.

[Wesgile]

even when you just reach 50, you really need to grit yourself up for a while until you get some good (not only decent) gear before you can even try to shine, especially regarding pvp. this, after the whole ordeal of solo-levelling, would be the time most people gave up on it, i reckon.

[hadoken]

even when you just reach 50, you really need to grit yourself up for a while until you get some good (not only decent) gear before you can even try to shine, especially regarding pvp. this, after the whole ordeal of solo-levelling, would be the time most people gave up on it, i reckon.

 

Oh no way most people give up before Act 1 is over. I did myself several times in beta. The story doesn't get good til then and your abilities are pretty poor (as a marksman you don't start to really do good damage til followthrough at 30).

[wessik]

I am in a guild with 500 members, currently 45 of which are level 50. Not one of the 45 level 50s in the guild is a Sniper. Also, when pugging DPS for HM EV/KP, the one class we are never able to find is a Sniper. Not having one myself, I was wondering why there seems to be such a shortage of this class in the game.

 

Do people not find Snipers as fun as other classes? Is it purely because they have less mobility than other classes? If they are not fun, what could be changed to make them a more popular class?

 

Thoughts?

 

because people don't know how to play them, and they have no time or patience to learn it... it's easier to choose faceroll or fotm classes...

 

i chose sniper when my buddy in beta first told me about them, haven't looked back since... valor 78 MM sniper... my only real toon...

 

(i have a level 3 "operative healer " but don't really care to play it...)

Edited April 18, 2012 by wessik

[Rebelexile]

I've personally been having a blast with my Sniper. Maybe it's just me.

 

Nope, it's me too... admittedly I am relatively new to the class (having played primarily on repub side) but I'm loving my sniper and everything that goes with it!

[Technohic]

These forums suck now! Seriously. go to post an get a blank screen and everything is then gone.

 

Anyway. You have to learn to love and use the cover system despite it's bugs. Don't go trying to have it removed when there are other classes that offer you the lack of cover.

 

Also, you have to be smarter than you would with other classes and pick your fights and plan ahead. Along with that, you have to be persistent and not give up when things get rough, and they WILL at some point.

 

That said, I find it the most rewarding class to do well with and I find my "rotation" is far less set in stone as my actions need to be more deliberate and thought out. I put my assassin down at 50 to level alts, and I will my sniper as I want to play through all the stories; but sniper is sure to be the one I come back to when all is said and done.

[Infalliable]

Much of why it's unpopular has nothing to do with the mechanics of the class. Even before the vast majority of the population saw the abilities of the sniper it was one of the least popular. Roughly 1 year ago when there were some large polls on class popularity...smuggler and agents were always the bottom.

 

They're just not iconic classes like most of the others are. The mechanics of the class is also unforgiving and new to MMOs. Cover takes getting used to and not having a healer until the 30s sucks for a pure DPS class.

 

They're quite nice in endgame content though. I am often the first one to draw aggro if the tank dies, so you're obviously putting out good damage numbers.

[Enexemander]

There isn't anything wrong with the sniper; snipers rock. They're just more complicated to play and most people aren't very good at it, so they quit.

 

If you don't like cover, you won't like a sniper. The class is built around that concept. It's like rolling an operative and hating stealth. You WILL get destroyed by not using the class specific mechanic in a lot of cases. Many snipers are running around never using natural cover, which is COMPLETELY awful.

 

That said, I'm not sure how much enjoyment I would have gotten out of my sniper if I had played that class first. It really helps to have some broad understanding of the game and how other classes work to appreciate what the sniper can do. Want the best AOE in the game? Easy. Engineering. Want a spec that destroys anyone in heavy armor and is super mobile? Lethality.

 

Really though, the art to playing a sniper is not doing dps, it's about knowing when and how to use the defensive cooldowns. A well played sniper is very sturdy.

[LovarBoy]

I can probably give some insight as to why they are played less. My sniper is now level 48 and I have a level 50 BH mercenary, and the difference is dramatic. I played the BH first and leveling was easy with my healing companion right from the start. You don't get heals on the sniper until much much later in the game.

 

Quick comparison, BH has heals from the start, heavy armor, good single target damage, range, good AoE fairly early on and good CC (including a one min CC for those pesky elites). Sniper, gets . . . a good AoE at level 48, a few very short CC and knockbacks, medium armor, heals late in the game, good single target damage. Oh and you are stuck in cover and have no escape moves.

 

Basically, I love the story, but the sniper is just soooo solo unfriendly while leveling compared to any other class I've tried. I think people just give up on it and try something easier. For sure, I've considered dropping it a few times, especially after a few too many trips to the med center. I may try it for a while at 50 and see how it goes, but am likely to go back to the much more survivable BH for dailies.

 

 

That is absolutely true.

 

I just leveled Mercenary and Sniper simultaneously and the difference is nauseating.

 

With my Mercenary I can do every H2 without any problems, sometimes H4 is possible - 60 sec stun, Mako's 8 sec stun, the amazing survivability skills, heals, everything what's needed.

 

As a Sniper, it is horroful. H2 quests are quite difficult to do, Kaliyo is an all-time dead companion starting from Taris - I don't know why, I equipped her with the best green / blue items I could get ( always trying to fit into my level ) and she is dying in 9/10 fights with an elite. Can anyone explain that to me? Positioning with cover is awful as you make a roll behind a chest or a box, you add the mobs but you CAN'T look over the box - what the hag?

 

 

I am used to kill Champions with my Mercenary & Mako as well ( sometimes it's hard but it works ), with my Sniper & Kaliyo I would never try that. 1 gold & 1 silver mob and Kaliyo is always down.

 

 

One thing I don't get is the missing CC for a Sniper - why is that missing? CC for droids oh nice... but a "real" CC would help very much.

 

 

Mercenary would win in every way depening on leveling and comfort.

 

__________

 

There are far more differences. Cover in PvP, especially the run-and-flee-battlegrounds, is horroful. While running you are quite useless.

 

In PvE, Sniper damage is lower than it should be. We got cover and we are "Snipers", but the range is a joke and the damage... yeah.

 

We can burst great, but that's it. In long fights we are loosing a huge amount of DPS as MM, Lethality is doing better.

 

Sniper DPS with 1.2 is quite average. Marodeurs, Mercenaries etc. do more damage, are much more mobile and have no problems with cover. And we can only do damage, we can't heal or tank like other classes that are on par with us or far over that.

 

 

The gap between Sniper DPS-Mobility-Survavibility and other DD's DPS-Mobility-Survavibility is massive.

Edited April 18, 2012 by LovarBoy