Soresu vs Shien

[VoidJustice]

Before the 1.2 patch I was getting pretty good at switching between the two based on intuition and current focus level, which allowed me to role hop between guarding and assault. However, after 1.2, it seems Shien just gets me killed too fast for a 6% damage increase and some focus I don't need, where as with Soresu, I can live through some heavy fire and continue to guard and kill people, although sometimes I find myself having to stop dps to run out for a Force leap/throw.

 

In Shien I just seem to get insta vaporized and cloned.

 

Does anyone have any insight ? I feel like my game has gotten less skillfull as I just derp around in soresu now...

 

Does anyone else find themselves stuck in Soresu?

Edited April 17, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Solonius]

I just stay in Soresu and use the 4pc War Leader set to my advantage. I still do great DPS and maintain good survivability. Great way to rack up medals also. Edited April 17, 2012 by Solonius

[thebigdoubleu]

I am definitely going to keep an eye on this thread since I've been curious too.

 

In PvP, I am almost always in Soresu form. It's almost unthinkable why I would give up all the advantages of Soresu form for only a DPS increase offered by Shien. Focus generation in PvP is rarely a problem because you tend to be taking damage very frequently, so the focus generation offered by Shien also feels a bit moot. And like others have mentioned in different threads, the damage by Soresu stance guardians isn't that bad if they are still spec for damage.

 

I am, however, curious about Shien vs Soresu in PvE, especially for levelling. Shien definitely downs mobs way faster, and Soresu is useful for elites and champions, but seem to lag for focus generation since mobs don't hit as much vs what happens in PvP. That said, I am Vigil spec, so maybe picking up the sundering strike talent in Defense may help with focus.

[Foodaddy]

WISDOM!

 

I am a recent focus guardian convert. (Was running in Shi-Cho there)

 

Vigilance has so much focus generation!

 

With free sweeps and blade storm, Master Strike being a primary tool of destruction, the two focus refund on 30% of our primary focus-sappers (Overhead slash and plasma brand), and Defiance giving us 4 focus on all items, there is no way you need more.

 

Soresu has 50+% damage mitigation with BM gear! Holy Toledo!

 

So I am thinking I will convert to Soresu... Are the devs trying to make soresu the smartest spec for all DPS guardians? After 1.2 I switched to Soresu Focus for a while too, and I liked the tankiness.

[VoidJustice]

Hmnnn... I'd say Shien needs a buff, but a buff right now would be disasterous... we need to keep quiet and enjoy the balance while we can. Not saying were OP but, were in a really really good place right now.

 

Is anyone running Shien in Wz?

[GarfieldJL]

I run Shien in PvE, and have run it in Warzones a few times pre 1.2.

 

I'll agree shien could use a few more buffs to the skill, that said there is an advantage to continually pound one's heavy focus using, heavy attack skills, one after another.

 

The other thing is that when you are in PvE, shien doesn't generate that much threat. If something is going after another charecter of the same level as me, I can usually go full out and attack and am usually ignored.

 

Shien works for what it is supposed to do, it could use some further improvements, but overall it is often underestimated.

[Andrew_Past]

Hmnnn... I'd say Shien needs a buff, but a buff right now would be disasterous... we need to keep quiet and enjoy the balance while we can. Not saying were OP but, were in a really really good place right now.

 

Is anyone running Shien in Wz?

I am. The damage output is amazing in Shien. I've been working outskirts of fights and rotate defensive CDs/expertise adrenal when I get focused. It's been working very well for me so far, and am almost always top damage in WZs now.

[dragospastiu]

It's impossible for me to PvP in Shien, even with 1100 expertise, I get melted in under 5 seconds.

I do play most of my games in Soresu, even though I'm Vigilance specced. But it's broken if you ask me, I can't play the way I want to play (i.e in Shien form).

[Hellghast]

I play Shien most of the time.

 

Always felt focus starved in Soresu until 1.2 hit. On the fence at the moment will need to test it out a little more.

 

I was Focus prior to 1.2

[bamsmacked]

Never have any problems staying alive in Shien post 1.2. Fights last a matter of seconds now, regardless of what form your using all thanks to the new 1.2 patch which sucks for PvP.

 

PvPers SAID they'd like fights to last longer, what did Bioware do? Buff damage, with bad mitigation and now everyone dies in seconds.

 

Even in Vigilance I have like 50% (If 50% mitigation can't save you, can't see how Soresu can?) mitigation with Shien and Focused Defense active but that doesn't seem to make a damn lick of a difference considering the massive PvP damage boost, and the fact that I have low expertise now since it made my modded champ gear worthless in expertise.

 

Initially I was excited about this patch, I was glad the devs finally showed some love to the Vigilance spec and our new ability Focused Defense but it doesn't matter how you cut it even with that new talent it still doesn't do us any damn good at all with the huge damage increase.

 

Operatives, Smugglers, Sorcs and Sages apparently were all OVER POWERED. Consequently they get nerfed, meanwhile Sentinels and Marauders become invincible/vanishing gods of destruction? How the hell is that balanced and NOT OP? This new patch hurt every class but the Sents/Maras. I've seen 1 of them go into a group of 3-4 people burst one down, and almost another go Invincible take out another and getting focuesd by 5 players taking ALL BUT 2S while they gorge and ravage someone to death - all to be vanish away unscathed and to come back and wreck havoc again in about 45 seconds.

 

The PvP in this game has officially be destroyed. Call me a pessimist if you want, but this PvP environment is garbage now.

Edited April 17, 2012 by bamsmacked

[maticlandarr]

Soresu in huttball about 80% of the time.

 

Soresu when defending in voidstar.

 

Soresu when we have a healer since thats semi rare now.

 

Soresu when the other team clealy outgears me.

 

Soresu when solo defending a node since thats generally just about holding attackers and staying alive til help arrives. Unless its a 1v1 that i think i can win, then ill probably go shien and trash them quick.

 

Shien just about everwhere else. Its hard to say definitively because my stancedancing dpends a lot on my gut reaction to each scenario.

[Invictusthetaru]

Soresu in huttball about 80% of the time.

 

Soresu when defending in voidstar.

 

Soresu when we have a healer since thats semi rare now.

 

Soresu when the other team clealy outgears me.

 

Soresu when solo defending a node since thats generally just about holding attackers and staying alive til help arrives. Unless its a 1v1 that i think i can win, then ill probably go shien and trash them quick.

 

Shien just about everwhere else. Its hard to say definitively because my stancedancing dpends a lot on my gut reaction to each scenario.

 

Agree w/ everything except gear because I have all BM w/ a WH saber, grinding rest of WH now.

 

Honestly Shien is hands down better in a large skirmish when you need to get people down and you have your defensive cool downs up. If zen strike doesn't proc in soresu you have a hard time getting through one rotation. Not to mention if you get stealthed on you are pretty much focus ****ed if F push is off cooldown.

 

I soresu full time ball runner in H ball, full time on voidstar defense, full time when guarding the lesser populated node.

 

Shien is still necessary for DPS, gotta trust your healers and LoS if you can.

[pianomanhooper]

It's impossible for me to PvP in Shien, even with 1100 expertise, I get melted in under 5 seconds.

I do play most of my games in Soresu, even though I'm Vigilance specced. But it's broken if you ask me, I can't play the way I want to play (i.e in Shien form).

 

its a balancing act it really is.. in terms of expertise and pve gear. ive ran shein and its assorted builds pre 1.2 and was like the only guardian on my serve to do so. now that 1.2 is around im having such a blast,,, except pyrotechs and a good operative, and sents.. but ehh i can go toe to toe with them untill they pop the insta win.. everything is fine.

 

i was in full BM gear at around as somone mentioned 1100 exp ..1068 to be precise and i just wasnt doing enough damage. im currently at 713 and the rest top end pve gear or (58) and (140) armoring and it much better.

 

shein has come along wy for the good... do i think we are glass cannons not by a long shot... any body who gets focused and is not gaurded can just get ready for a spawn and im ok with that.

[Andrew_Past]

Before the 1.2 patch I was getting pretty good at switching between the two based on intuition and current focus level, which allowed me to role hop between guarding and assault. However, after 1.2, it seems Shien just gets me killed too fast for a 6% damage increase and some focus I don't need, where as with Soresu, I can live through some heavy fire and continue to guard and kill people, although sometimes I find myself having to stop dps to run out for a Force leap/throw.

 

In Shien I just seem to get insta vaporized and cloned.

 

Does anyone have any insight ? I feel like my game has gotten less skillfull as I just derp around in soresu now...

 

Does anyone else find themselves stuck in Soresu?

Use Focused Defense with the Commanding Awe talent. It gives shien a good amount of damage reduction and self heals. Think of it like Sentinel's Rebuke and Watchman's self heals all rolled into one defensive CD. It works even better with Enure or Saber Ward. Using it with either of those will make you almost unkillable during the duration. Also, it's a good idea to use Combat Focus with it to make up for the focus loss. However, I usually don't have to, due to the Defiance and Zen Strike talents.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Andrew_Past

[VoidJustice]

It's good to hear that you guys are getting some mileage out of Shien. I find that if Im not in the center of the majority of imperial forces in a Wz my teams lose. This could be me being nub, this could just be my bias, or it could just be the way things work on my server, but I don't have the luxury of killing people on the outskirts of the zerg although that sounds like fun! Personally, I find Im most effective and my teams win more if Im aoe taunting, guarding the enemy focus target, helping to concentrate my teams focus targe, aoe'ing, and awe'ing and snaring at critical moments . When ever I step away from thecenter of the big fights things seem to go pear shaped quickly. This kind of play style seems to make the imperials pay alot of attention to me, which is fine as Im in soresu and my servers healers are "real good" (some might say GOD like even eafter 1.2) /healerlove.

 

From what I can gather from you guys I should swap to shien before a 1v1 or a smalish fight?

 

p.s. also only 968 expertise... I may swallow my pride and buy recruit to fill in my champion? guh...

Edited April 18, 2012 by VoidJustice

[Solonius]

I'm not sure what other people are experiencing in PvP, but in Soresu -Hybrid 14/25/2 build / WL set remodded for Power and Crit, I melt people 1 vs 1 now. The only classes I really have a problem with are Mara/Sents just because they are so OP'd right now in PvP its insane. But I feel invicible at times now, and its awesome.

 

However, overall survivability took somewhat of a hit, as did healing in general. Seen a lot of premades rolling just straight hardcore DPS now because you can DPS through just about any healing now if you got the right setup.