Remove the rakghoul plague now

[SoonerJBD]

You say false, and then you repeat precisely what I already said?

 

 

 

vs.

You said you contrasted it with PvP. You did not contrast them. You were comparing to show likeness, not comparing to show dislikeness. Equating something means to regard treat or represent as equivalent. That's what you were trying to do. You were explaining how spreading the plague is so like PvP that it might violate Terms of Service on a PvE server. You tried to equate them. Then you claimed you didn't and said you were contrasting them, which you weren't. Then you insinuated the person who rightly called you out didn't understand 5th grade grammar.

[Skolops]

You compared spreading the plague to PvP. Contrasting as a verb means to compare in order to show unlikeness or difference (that's the dictionary definition). You were trying to show similarity. That's not contrasting. Comparing something is examining two or more objects, ideas, etc. to show likenesses and differences (again, from the dictionary). That's what you did, focusing more on likeness than difference, if anything. Then you when someone called you out for it, you said you didn't and insinuated the person didn't know basic 5th grade grammar.

 

You've been fairly respectful in this discussion, but own up when you make a mistake.

 

If you read my posts again, you'll see that I spend a fairly considerable amount of time laying out both similarities and differences. I do this because, when I write something, I do not want people to read into it things I don't intend to say.

 

In this case, for example, when I said that I believe the key difference between a PvE and a PvP server is that on a PvP server, people can directly impact you negatively, I made certain to point out that I distinguish intentionality from directness. I said this because I can understand how someone might think I equate the two ideas when in fact I do not.

 

This is the reason my posts tend to be quite long at times, and frankly I think it may be one reason people can misunderstand me. I know that longer posts tend to be skimmed rather than read critically. Nevertheless, I still feel its best to be as thorough and precise as possible in my writing.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Now that you mention it, I don't see why they can't provide free healthcare. If you walk up to a doctor, they should cure your plague for free.

 

Vaccines are for cases where you need to be away from the fleet, doing dailies and stuff.

 

Because even in a galaxy far far away, you don't get free healthcare.

 

Only two thing in existence ever get free healthcare.

 

Canadians and Pokemon.

[Skolops]

You said you contrasted it with PvP. You did not contrast them. You were comparing to show likeness, not comparing to show dislikeness. Equating something means to regard treat or represent as equivalent. That's what you were trying to do. You were explaining how spreading the plague is so like PvP that it might violate Terms of Service on a PvE server. You tried to equate them. Then you claimed you didn't and said you were contrasting them, which you weren't. Then you insinuated the person who rightly called you out didn't understand 5th grade grammar.

 

Once again, I did not equate them, nor did I say I was contrasting them only. Rather, I said that I compared them and contrasted them, which, if you go back and read my posts carefully, you will see that I did.

[SoonerJBD]

Erm, no. It's comparing it to PvP and it's contrasting it with PvP.

 

This is very basic, 5th grade English class stuff here...

 

It wasn't contrasting. Contrasting is comparing to show difference. That is not what you did. And then you accused someone of not understanding English.

[SoonerJBD]

That's true, but it's quite different from the way that other players effect you in PvP.

 

Another player can buy an item from you, or sell one to you on a PvE server, but really the very worst he can possibly do is steal your spawns. He can't ever cause you to debuff, or to die, or to participate in a quest you don't want to. That's what people can do with the plague, and it's entirely inconsistent with the PvE server concept.

 

You aren't comapring and contrasting here. Contrasting means comparing for difference. You are showing likeness. You are equating the consequences of spreading the plague to the consequences of PvP.

[Korrigan]

For the plague to violate the terms of a PVE server it would have to equate to being pvp. What you technically did was say that they might be equitable. You then claimed you said no such thing. Frankly, I just think you are being totally dishonest with the way you are arguing here.

They are on a crusade now, and people on a crusade aren't honest in argumentation - they won't stop until the end of the event, in hope to make Bioware cancel it in some way - which I hope won't happen. Bioware must show they stand strong against a tiny minority whose only objective is to ruin the fun of the very vast majority for no good reason at all.

 

FACT:

This event is a tremendous success. The change of pace is welcome, there are no complains about being infected in game neither on Tatooine, nor on the fleet, nor anywhere else. The only ones who complain are the same few bored forum posters, who repeat their whiny leit motiv for the 4th day now. I for sure hope the "mini-riot" of what must be 10 forum posters won't make Bioware change an event enjoyed by everyone else.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Korrigan

[ConradLionhart]

I repeat, the event will end on the 24th. To the people in this thread, be sure do do your dailies every single day in order to get the full containment armor set.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

They are on a crusade now, and people on a crusade aren't honest in argumentation - they won't stop until the end of the event, in hope to make Bioware cancel it in some way - which I hope won't happen. Bioware must show they stand strong against a tiny minority whose only objective is to ruin the fun of the very vast majority for no good reason at all.

 

FACT:

This event is a tremendous success. The change of pace is welcome, there are no complains about being infected in game neither on Tatooine, nor on the fleet, nor anywhere else. The only ones who complain are the same few bored forum posters, who repeat their whiny leit motiv for the 4th day now. I for sure hope the "mini-riot" of what must be 10 forum posters won't make Bioware change an event enjoyed by everyone else.

 

Plus it ends the 24th. It's the 18th today. So these people only have like a week then it's over. So can you guys just zip your lips for like five days?

[Skolops]

It wasn't contrasting. Contrasting is comparing to show difference. That is not what you did. And then you accused someone of not understanding English.

 

To bring it back to Swtor, I am simply trying to say that there are many similarities between a PvE and a PvP server, but what makes them distinct is a number of very particular differences. Both have many elements of player interaction which are the same, but there are certain kinds which are explicitly excluded from a PvE server. When some mechanic - in this case, the plague - begins to erode the differences in those particular areas where the two server types are different, it is problematic.

 

I contend that the main difference between the two servers can be summed up in that, on a PvE server, other players cannot generally directly impact you negatively without violating the terms of service - stealing spawns intentionally, etc. They may indirectly effect you negatively - as when they happen to spawn a boss before you get there, for example. On the other hand, on a PvP server, they can directly negatively effect you while keeping in line with the policies. They can't take it too far, but they can do it to some extent.

 

Now the rakghoul plague infection mechanic allows other players to directly negatively effect you - even unintentionally. It brings something which is otherwise intended to be excluded from a PvE server - this direct negative impact.

 

Thus, if a player on PvE doesn't want to be infected and he is at risk of it by other players, then this certainly is inconsistent with the idea of the PvE server. PvE servers are about interacting with other players, but not suffering on their behalf. Indeed, BW even has policies against negatively impacting other players. If someone consistently steals your spawns, for example, you can report that player and it is a violation of the BW policies. Someone doing it once by accident is obviously not against any kinds of rules.

 

It's important to understand that I'm not trying to say that players unintentionally infecting someone is the same as a person intentionally stealing someone's spawns, chests, or doing something similar. Rather, I bring this up only to demonstrate the fact that negatively impacting other players in very direct ways is not something that PvE is supposed to have, and this plague does just that, intentionally or not.

 

Now, if you are trying to say that I didn't explicitly contrast the rakghoul plague mechanic with PvP, that is true. Why would I? My intention was to demonstrate how it is similar. Moreover, my intention was to demonstrate how only certain aspects of the plague are similar in its impact on you, as opposed to the entire interaction. Those areas where it is different were really not my point. In PvP, the entire interaction generally effects you negatively, whereas with the plague, its only certain aspects that effect you negatively. Another difference is the fact that receiving an infection from someone should not prevent you from accomplishing a quest goal the way that a PvP interaction can.

 

Ultimately, the point I suppose is that I was not equating the two and saying how they were the same in every way, which is what equating really is. Rather, I was saying that they are similar in their end result.

[Elhanan]

At the end of the day, the determinant factor in the discussion is this: the plague would be an issue if it offered any true mechanical disadvantage to players. It doesn't. It outright rewards those who catch it, recouping any "losses" for the player. The only true loss, potentially, is lost time. And this would be problematic if the player was further penalized in terms of mechanics (ie. a debuff that actually affect stats in an egregious manner, death from disease actually incurring repair costs). But they are not. Thus, complaints are fairly misguided.

 

This is to say nothing about the bizarre notions as to what rights and security a player's experience has in an ever changing setting full of other players. The most we've been offered is vague responses about morals and individual anecdotes which there's little reason to put an overwhelming stock in considering how many people have experiences nothing like these supposed scenarios.

 

Except it is not only a day; tis ten of them. And it matters little if the loss is great or small; any loss due to the selfish actions of other Players is too great to let stand. And time is valued by the person that loses it; not by the ones that cause said loss.

[Elhanan]

Except they are smoking in a smoking area. Bioware clearly expected the plague to spread to the fleet, which is why they put in the NPC containment soldiers. People are playing by the rules and as intended. You are the guy who sat in the smoking section and then complained when someone next to you lit up.

 

Oh and in this analogy, smoking doesn't cause cancer. It makes you crap money.

 

Clearly?

 

When were those containment soldiers placed on the Fleet? Personally, I have seen scans well before this event, but have never seen any kind of action personally, so I do not know when the actual soldiers were activated.

 

That said, when the Player chooses to go to the Safe Zones to attack others and spread the disease, they become problematic. And Griefing other's play is something Bioware has attempted to halt before launch.

[SNCommand]

Like people have said, this is why we can't have nice things

 

Bioware gives us something to break the monotone dailies and give some life to the universe, and sure enough, someone complains about it

[Newsinz]

*sigh* Stop QQing. Most MMO Communities in other games would kill for fun little events like this. I think this was a huge success and yes. It's annoying there I times I DREAD going to the fleet but meh people are having fun running around and exploding..

 

To say it takes time out of your day? Really? what 20 minutes to explode and what you die and have to res yourself? Give me a break.

[Elhanan]

Few more days than its over, cant believe people complain about something so small. U wanted more stuff to do, U wanted events, BW gives event.. than lots of people get butthurt. U get no repair costs for dieing if u have the infection.

 

Next up is people complaining they didnt have enough time to get the mini-pets and color crystal.

 

If u dont want events, dont ask for it. BW has done a great job with this event, i say keep them comming. Next time let people that get infected lose control of there character, than they do have something to complain about...

 

On point; have never asked for such Events. I am pleased with playing the content solo; thus would have passed on any Social funtions as I have with OP's, WZ, Guilds, FP's etc.

 

Do you hear me now?

[Arhaine]

Ok, I perfectly understand that this forum is a place for whining for the sake of whining. But some people just dont understand the simple fact that if YOU dont like the event, that doesnt mean EVERYONE dont like it. If you dont enjoy it, dont participate, its that easy. The serum costs some 2k credits, or obtainable for free from almost every daily.

This event is really fun, and reminds me of <insert the unspeakable game name here> Zombie Infestation event, wich was really fun too, although you didnt have the option to NOT participate.

The whole concept of denying people the fun, if you dont understand why they have fun is really egoistic in nature.

[Korrigan]

On point; have never asked for such Events. I am pleased with playing the content solo; thus would have passed on any Social funtions as I have with OP's, WZ, Guilds, FP's etc.

 

Do you hear me now?

A friendly advice: Skyrim is an excellent game, and you will never have to interact with anyone else playing it. Try it, you'll love it. But if you play a MMORPG (MM=Massively Multiplayer), you have to expect that the actions of other players will occasionally be able to affect you.

 

I'm sick of antisocial people with single player mindsets trying to ruin the multiplayer aspects of... multiplayer games.

 

Are you guys also going to the local bar and cry because there are other people there who talk loud and therefore interfere with you? Well I don't, I stay at home if I ever have such a mood. Same goes for games. When I'm not in the mood of being "affected" by other players, I play single player games.

 

So no, we don't "hear" you. You just admitted you bought a multiplayer game expecting to play it as a single player and avoiding any interaction with others. How can anyone take you even remotely seriously after that?

 

And another thing... if you play the game "solo" like you pretend (no Ops, no WZ, no guild, etc...), that also means you don't use the Galactic Market, right, since that's also interacting with other players? So what the hell are you doing on the fleet standing near infected people? If you are really out there leveling your chars, doing quests and playing "solo", you will never be affected by the plague, unless, as I said, you are doing the silly thing of staying still near the occasional green smoking character until he explodes, which never happens when you are questing.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Korrigan

[Elhanan]

Not being funny, and I am all for people voicing their opinion, but whatever is said here isn't going to change anything. It's bioware's game, and they can do whatever they like. Whether or not some people are upset about it, they see how many people have enjoyed it, and will, no doubt, do something similar in the future. And that will possibly involve your character being directly affected.

You had better get used to events like this, because they're not going away. And if you can't get used to them, you need to consider if staying subbed is worth it.

 

I will. If Griefing is to be made an active part of the Social functions, then I will consider departure.

 

However, well before that occurs, I will take advantage of the implemented functions of the game to let others know of my discontent. As stated before launch, I plan on reporting Griefing, and will encourage others to do so also via reporting it, screenshots, vids, Forum posts, Wiki reports, etc.

 

My time here is as valuable as any other, and more so personally as it is gifted to me by others. So I have no intention of simply leaving quietly. Thank you.

[corbanite]

I will. If Griefing is to be made an active part of the Social functions, then I will consider departure.

 

However, well before that occurs, I will take advantage of the implemented functions of the game to let others know of my discontent. As stated before launch, I plan on reporting Griefing, and will encourage others to do so also via reporting it, screenshots, vids, Forum posts, Wiki reports, etc.

 

My time here is as valuable as any other, and more so personally as it is gifted to me by others. So I have no intention of simply leaving quietly. Thank you.

 

It's a pity tbh you are too enraged to be able to enjoy yourself.

[Nemonia]

people standing around, at spawn in, to fleet for hours, on end,is just lame.

 

I think its quite amusing. Buy the cure if you don't like it

[JollyRogers]

So no, we don't "hear" you. You just admitted you bought a multiplayer game expecting to play it as a single player and avoiding any interaction with others. How can anyone take you even remotely seriously after that?

 

There is a difference between interacting with another player, and negatively impacting the play experience of another player. Attempting to classify one player being able to forcibly, negatively impact another player as "interacting" with them is just silly.

[Elhanan]

Ok, I perfectly understand that this forum is a place for whining for the sake of whining. But some people just dont understand the simple fact that if YOU dont like the event, that doesnt mean EVERYONE dont like it. If you dont enjoy it, dont participate, its that easy. The serum costs some 2k credits, or obtainable for free from almost every daily.

This event is really fun, and reminds me of <insert the unspeakable game name here> Zombie Infestation event, wich was really fun too, although you didnt have the option to NOT participate.

The whole concept of denying people the fun, if you dont understand why they have fun is really egoistic in nature.

 

Same goes for the reverse: if someone likes the Event, that do not mean that everyone will, and leave them the freedom to not participate. Personally, I would be chilling today if not for the actions of a Griefer on the Fleet.

[thomasgallant]

I will. If Griefing is to be made an active part of the Social functions, then I will consider departure.

 

However, well before that occurs, I will take advantage of the implemented functions of the game to let others know of my discontent. As stated before launch, I plan on reporting Griefing, and will encourage others to do so also via reporting it, screenshots, vids, Forum posts, Wiki reports, etc.

 

My time here is as valuable as any other, and more so personally as it is gifted to me by others. So I have no intention of simply leaving quietly. Thank you.

 

considering how easy money is to get and how cheap the vaccines are to buy and the fact they last 6 hours, and you really only need to use them when travelling to the fleet or tat, ( rarely do i see anyone anywhere else atm) I really dont see the need for all the hubbub about griefing and what not. its a social event that wont last forever.. just stock up on the vaccines or do the quests on tat and you will have a ton and a bunch of dna you can sell for a decent profit... hell sell 1 dna currently and you will pay for 2-3 vaccines and not have to worry for hours....

 

this really bugs you that much?

[Korrigan]

However, well before that occurs, I will take advantage of the implemented functions of the game to let others know of my discontent. As stated before launch, I plan on reporting Griefing, and will encourage others to do so also via reporting it, screenshots, vids, Forum posts, Wiki reports, etc.

And if your holy crusade to turn a multiplayer game into a single player game fails? Because that won't happen, you have already lost...

Your problem is that you "waste" more time whining about this (reports, screenshots, vidoes, posts, wiki, etc... ) than playing the game. If you would play "solo" as usual (or as you "pretend" to play, which remains to be proven), you would realize that the plague doesn't affect you at all... the only way it can affect you is if you lied about your "solo" playstyle. A solo player doesn't stand for hours in the fleet waiting to be infected, is out on the planets doing quests, crafting, etc...

[Tekkoclarky]

It's er, quite easy to not get infected.

 

I've not done a WZ for a while, so no idea what it's like there.

 

But if you get infected on the fleet, it sounds like you are just afk'ing in fleet in the popular places to stand around.

 

MMOs are not for you, if you complain about this. I would ask you to leave and play a single player game as MMOs are meant to be like this. I hope future world events much more immersive.

 

I don't want a static world which is always the same, I play MMOs to get an ever changing world and random events which happen around me.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Tekkoclarky