Laleilou Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 It seems that after patch, despite small changes, Annihilation is still the most viable spec in most situations for pvp, and there is one simple reason for that . . . we are seeing way more maras/sents than we used to. Like many, I tried Carnage and thought it was amazing, had a bit of fun with the larger Rage crits, and thought I would never go back to Annihilation any time soon. That is until I fought an annihilation Mara as any of these two specs. I feel that Saber Ward + Cloak of Pain + Self Heals buys so much outlasting power over simple Saber Ward + Cloak of Pain, especially given the daring fast pace of combat now. Annihilation is too rhythmic of a spec, just Deadly Saber over the Rupture and then Annihilate, rinse and repeat while spamming Berserk when available. I would like to say that the problem with this spec lies in the self heals, but these are part of its signature. I don't want to try and sound like I'm crying, but if you put two equally skilled maras against each other, one being Annihilation, and the other Carnage, then I feel the Annihilation mara will always win in most cases. All this isn't helped by the huge influx of rerollers we have been seeing. I'd say every wz team has a consistent 3 maras/sents and often times even more than that. What are your thoughts? I personally wish they would nerf Annihilation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobaStyx Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The two best running Sents that I've seen lately on my server are Deathride and Katarac, both of them using Watchman spec. I've beaten both of them post 1.2 with Rage and Carnage, and they've beaten me as well. It's honestly just up to who gets the jump on who and who has all their CD's up. Gore + snared ravage is devastating for carnage and Rage, even with the 30% reduction in aoe damage, barely puts my crit smashes below 4k, even if they do fall to that level. As far as marauders go on my server, the better ones are currently MIA, which is kinda sad because if I see one, I go pick on them because I know they aren't going to beat me unless they have help. If played correctly, each tree seems to be able to hold their own against the other, even against the previously untouchable Anni/Watchman spec. Hint: best friend against them is obfuscate, which completely shuts them down for 6 secs. You can blind a Rage marauder all day, but it's worthless since we rely on force attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barokjedi Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 love the bleed tree and yup. im scared to death for my mara since they (and sent's) seem to be the FOTM . from my experience in MMO's that bring's on the nerf bat to class "X" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Carnage mara will destroy a anni mara post patch. Not seeing your point. Fights last maybe 4 or 5 GCDs now. Thats not even enough time to get your dots up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yescek Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Carnage mara will destroy a anni mara post patch. Not seeing your point. Fights last maybe 4 or 5 GCDs now. Thats not even enough time to get your dots up. Only true if they didn't already get them rolling fighting someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aRtFuL Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Carnage is a playstyle. Anni is a playstyle. Some people just doesn't like the whole warlock/death knight DoT DoT more DoTs crap and rather prefer upfront damage warrior style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorLototskyy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Carnage mara will destroy a anni mara post patch. Not seeing your point. Fights last maybe 4 or 5 GCDs now. Thats not even enough time to get your dots up. Destroy with what, Gore burst under Obfuscate? Annihilation is still best 1v1 spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laleilou Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Carnage mara will destroy a anni mara post patch. Not seeing your point. Fights last maybe 4 or 5 GCDs now. Thats not even enough time to get your dots up. You could probably roll over one if they didnt have cloak of pain and saber ward, but if they do have it then they have a better chance of surviving the encounter regardless of whether you also have them. Edited April 16, 2012 by Laleilou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Destroy with what, Gore burst under Obfuscate? Annihilation is still best 1v1 spec. Obfuscate a anni marauder and he's even worse off. He has to wait another 12 seconds to get the bulk of his dmg back. A missed rupter and a blown deadly saber complete neutralizes the spec. Edited April 16, 2012 by Nmaharg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Only true if they didn't already get them rolling fighting someone else. Even in a duel. Because both play styles have so many defensive cooldowns carnage comes out on top because missing isn't nearly as big an issue for carnage as it is with anni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Obfuscate a anni marauder and he's even worse off. He has to wait another 12 seconds to get the bulk of his dmg back. A missed rupter and a blown deadly saber complete neutralizes the spec. obfuscate is just as bad for carnage as it is for annihilation carnage mara vs annihilation mara is going to come down to who is the better player (or who has the better gear) neither spec can gain a big advantage that the other cant mitigate or replicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorLototskyy Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Obfuscate a anni marauder and he's even worse off. He has to wait another 12 seconds to get the bulk of his dmg back. A missed rupter and a blown deadly saber complete neutralizes the spec. Assuming that anni marauder is blind and don't see obfuscate - sure. But I would just go into my cool 6 seconds invis and open from Rupture still having my deadly saber on At the same time carnage marauder need to use gore which can be countered completely. I had hours of duels with best marauders on our server, it's always entertaining and very intelligent fights, because all duels based on right decisions (among many options) which you have to take every GCD. Sure, more intelligent carnage player can beat just a little bit less skilled anni marauders most of the times, but still... Annihilation marauder just have more options to choose from. Edited April 16, 2012 by VictorLototskyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 obfuscate is just as bad for carnage as it is for annihilation carnage mara vs annihilation mara is going to come down to who is the better player (or who has the better gear) neither spec can gain a big advantage that the other cant mitigate or replicate Not really. Even if gore misses you still get armor pen. Even if massacre misses you still get an extra 30% chance to ataru strike, and an auto force crit. And force scream can't be shielded or dodged/parried. All things equal carnage holds the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Assuming that anni marauder is blind and don't see obfuscate - sure. But I would just go into my cool 6 seconds invis and open from Rupture still having my deadly saber on At the same time carnage marauder need to use gore which can be countered completely. I had hours of duels with best marauders on our server, it's always entertaining and very intelligent fights, because all duels based on right decisions (among many options) which you have to take every GCD. Sure, more intelligent carnage player can beat just a little bit less skilled anni marauders most of the times, but still... Annihilation marauder just have more options to choose from. Maybe you're different than most but every single anni mara I know pops deadly right after force charge almost without fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorLototskyy Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) Maybe you're different than most but every single anni mara I know pops deadly right after force charge almost without fail. Sure I do and get it for 12 seconds. If enemy obfuscate me - I just don't hit and don't spend those stacks. So my dmg not wasted. On the other hand, if I see gore buff I would use obfuscate which will make it a complete waste. Edited April 17, 2012 by VictorLototskyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Not really. Even if gore misses you still get armor pen. Even if massacre misses you still get an extra 30% chance to ataru strike, and an auto force crit. And force scream can't be shielded or dodged/parried. All things equal carnage holds the advantage. yes, you still get armor pen ... which doesnt matter because you are going to miss with anything but scream and yes, you still get a chance to proc ataru, which is now weapon damage and will miss p.s. if all things are "equal" nobody holds the advantage ... thats what equal means but im not saying all things are equal, im saying that its the same class, pretty much anything you can do to them they can do right back to you, and in the case of carnage and annihilation where both of your specs rely heavily on the ability to land melee attacks obfuscate doesnt grant 1 spec a significant advantage over the other carnage v annihilation is going to come down to the player and the gear, neither spec is significantly better than the other in a 1v1 situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Sure I do and get it for 12 seconds. If enemy obfuscate me - I just don't hit and don't spend those stacks. So my dmg not wasted. On the other hand, if I see gore buff I would use obfuscate which will make it a complete waste. So you would lose 12 seconds of dps and still expect to win? What you have camo, force choke and roar, you would have to burn them all in order to survive those 12 dpsless seconds. Not exactly putting yourself in the best position, cause you're wide open for an extremely hard ravage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 So you would lose 12 seconds of dps and still expect to win? What you have camo, force choke and roar, you would have to burn them all in order to survive those 12 dpsless seconds. Not exactly putting yourself in the best position, cause you're wide open for an extremely hard ravage. you are misunderstanding what hes saying he is saying DS buff lasts 12 seconds, obfuscate lasts 6, camo lasts 6 if he DSs then you obfuscate, he can camo through the duration of your obfuscate and then get back on target without losing DS sure he may "lose dps" for those 6 seconds, but hes camod so you do also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) you are misunderstanding what hes saying he is saying DS buff lasts 12 seconds, obfuscate lasts 6, camo lasts 6 if he DSs then you obfuscate, he can camo through the duration of your obfuscate and then get back on target without losing DS sure he may "lose dps" for those 6 seconds, but hes camod so you do also And then I just camo when he decloacks and he gets maybe one stack of deadly off which is nothing. Edited April 17, 2012 by Nmaharg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorLototskyy Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) So you would lose 12 seconds of dps and still expect to win? What you have camo, force choke and roar, you would have to burn them all in order to survive those 12 dpsless seconds. Not exactly putting yourself in the best position, cause you're wide open for an extremely hard ravage. Obfuscate - 6 seconds, why 12? And those 6 are not lost dps because you' won't do any dps either, it's just a wasting of your obfuscate:) And then I just camo when he decloacks and he gets maybe one stack of deadly off which is nothing. Nope, then deadly saber (which is 12sec cd) ready again and it goes as usually. Not mentioning slow from rupture and so on. Sure, it all get's different at wz's when some of cd's are usually off. Edited April 17, 2012 by VictorLototskyy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 And then I just camo when he decloacks and he gets maybe one stack of deadly off which is nothing. which is exactly my point in the first place we talking 1 spec vs another spec from the same class they are way too similar, neither spec has anything in it that gives it a distinct advantage over the other, everything one person can do can be countered or replicated so, it comes down to the individual and the gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 (edited) which is exactly my point in the first place we talking 1 spec vs another spec from the same class they are way too similar, neither spec has anything in it that gives it a distinct advantage over the other, everything one person can do can be countered or replicated so, it comes down to the individual and the gear At this pooint I'm just in this debate to pass the time. But my que just poped. Freaking 500 people on the fatman fleet instance number 2 has 210 people on it lol. Edited April 17, 2012 by Nmaharg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 At this pooint I'm just in this debate to pass the time. But my que just poped. Freaking 500 people on the fatman fleet instance number 2 has 210 people on it lol. everyone is moving to fatman from the low pop servers it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) Obfuscate a anni marauder and he's even worse off. He has to wait another 12 seconds to get the bulk of his dmg back. A missed rupter and a blown deadly saber complete neutralizes the spec. you do realize that deadly saber is on successful melee hits right? So the only thing we're blowing deadly saber against is assassins with shroud. Even in a duel. Because both play styles have so many defensive cooldowns carnage comes out on top because missing isn't nearly as big an issue for carnage as it is with anni. Um yes it is, not sure what you're talking about. Edited April 18, 2012 by Xerain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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