Why Nerf Crafting?

[Kellour]

The fact that my highest lvl char is only 35 should not have anything to do with not being able to make a profit off crafting.

 

I have no problem making lvl 50 gear as my crafters are maxed out at 400, yes they can’t make everything purple yet, but I can make a fear bit of purple items...

 

I have crafted purple lvl 50 gear and what it costs me in crafting materials is more than what they sell for on the market. because there is no crafting mats to find in the market and people selling the same gear in the market are selling the same items for less than what you buy the materials for once you find them.

 

But there is also the fact that you have the Option of making things easier on yourself. If you don't like how much people charge for Crafting Materials - get them yourself and save yourself that expense! Need a Biometric Alloy and don't wanna shell out the Money for it? Then finish leveling up to 50 and go get a few for yourself.

 

The point is, you can change the situation you're in for the better, you just don't want to. You want to be able to do everything a Level 50 can do, without being a Level 50. That's unfortunately not how MMO's work.

[JMCH]

The point is, you can change the situation you're in for the better, you just don't want to. You want to be able to do everything a Level 50 can do, without being a Level 50. That's unfortunately not how MMO's work.

The only way to be able to produce high-end gear is to be a guild's crafter, but who would take all raid loots to give them to you for RE, seriously? (assuming you can now claim for the guild)

Edited April 18, 2012 by JMCH

[Endymionsama]

You mean crafting that creates purple augments that everybody needs now and orange gear with augment slots that everybody needs now too, that crafting? What's so undesirable about it?

 

I been hearing this alot. So far I only found a recipe for an orange robe but I never found anything for augments. Just where do I get these for crafting?

[jamescloutier]

Augment schem comes from the slicing mission (tech parts). You need to be either synth, armstech or armormech to learn and craft the augments.

[NikitaCH]

But there is also the fact that you have the Option of making things easier on yourself. If you don't like how much people charge for Crafting Materials - get them yourself and save yourself that expense! Need a Biometric Alloy and don't wanna shell out the Money for it? Then finish leveling up to 50 and go get a few for yourself.

 

The point is, you can change the situation you're in for the better, you just don't want to. You want to be able to do everything a Level 50 can do, without being a Level 50. That's unfortunately not how MMO's work.

 

I have no problem with gathering my own materials its almost the only way I am able to craft. But its a very slow process and it does not change the fact that there is no profit in it. I look at the prices of an object by what the GTN users have put them up for when there is actually any materials on the GTN, but there is almost no materials there anymore.

 

And I never said I wanted to do what a lvl 50 can do, all I want is to be able to make crafting pay off somehow so I can hand out freebees to my guild mates without having to worry about not having enough credits left to be able to send my companions out on a gathering mission...

[NikitaCH]

I think Crated gear should be equal to end-game gear. This way, crafters can't hold gear hostage for obscene prices nor will they feel obsolete. Instead I think crafters should have equal gear ratings but different skins. So you can be a min-maxer and either rock a crafted red body armor or a blue one you grinded for.

 

This is actually a pretty good idea

 

And they could use the same prinsipple for bikes, guns, etc...

[Serbegorn]

Its actually a tough call.

 

You see if Crafting made the best gear then pretty much everyone would have crafting alts. Eventually anyway, the game is a little new for that right now. Crafted items have to be good enough that they are in demand (and worth the time/credit sink to level) but not so good that it is the best gear in game. Otherwise people could just do dailies/grind mobs for the credits and have the best gear in game. Once a recipe is learned its a sure thing, this is also a factor.

 

Doing Ops & FPs has to be rewarding as well, see previous. PVE Drop gear has to be a bit better than crafted gear since it is RNG if it drops and may or may not require many runs to obtain.

 

PVP gear, that is the real kicker. It has to be good so that people will PVP to get it, but also has to be reasonably attainable so that not just the top 1% of PVPers can eventually get it. With Expertise PVP gear really should have lower stats than PVE gear. However that gets you into multiple sets of gear, and yada yada yada.

 

The thing is its a balancing act and its not always easy to balance.

 

Incredibly easy to solve issues.

 

1) Maxing a crafting skill should be uber hard. As it is I can max ANY skill in a day maybe two, it only takes money and not much time at all, especially if you can deploy 5 companions. It's stupid easy.

 

2) MOBs should drop the crafting materials instead of the finished product (except in RARE cases). This makes raiding etc. plenty rewarding. Same with PvP.

 

3) Recipes/Schematics should be very very rare.

 

The way it is now actually destroys immersion. SW lore has it that Jedi create their own lightsabers. In fantasy lore you wen to a blacksmith to get armor and weapons.

 

The fact is today's MMOs players are a bunch of lazy asses and would cry like little b'ches.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Serbegorn

[NikitaCH]

Incredibly easy to solve issues.

 

1) Maxing a crafting skill should be uber hard. As it is I can max ANY skill in a day maybe two, it only takes money and not much time at all, especially if you can deploy 5 companions. It's stupid easy.

 

2) MOBs should drop the crafting materials instead of the finished product (except in RARE cases). This makes raiding etc. plenty rewarding. Same with PvP.

 

3) Recipes/Schematics should be very very rare.

 

The way it is now actually destroys immersion. SW lore has it that Jedi create their own lightsabers. In fantasy lore you wen to a blacksmith to get armor and weapons.

 

The fact is today's MMOs players are a bunch of lazy asses and would cry like little b'ches.

 

 

Very good points you have, this would really help the crafters, and we could maybe go back to making a few credits again instead of wasting our time on stuff everyone already know how to do.

 

I love crafting more then grinding a char, and if it was really hard and took a long time i'd much rather do that then know how to make everything and not make a profit like it is now.

[GwainNaer]

No use for trading Biochems? Lulz my Armstech and his incessant need for Exotech Stims would like a word...

[LemmingLeader]

Crafters always want to hold everyone hostage to their whims in MMOs, and think that they should make the best gear around. I really like it when MMOs minimize crafting down to optional. Even though it's a PvE server, you can still PvP a lot.

 

Lol! You're part of the crowd that have driven mmorpgs into the ground in gameplay. The mentality that combat is the only viable form of play in an mmorpg. The reason why mmo devs have no idea how to implement anything else that isn't combat, and activities outside it are literally nonexistent. SWTOR is a shining example.

 

Lousy economy.

Lousy crafting.

Nobody needs anyone; nonexistent community.

Only combat, and the devs are having one helluva time getting it right, even for a game that's been out for almost 4 months... PVP? A disaster!

 

Your crowd wanted shallow gaming, and that is what mmorpgs have become. Little to no depth single player rpgs.

[Shlamorel]

A crafter can be in heaven in this game if they find a guild who they work tirelessly for as their slave.

 

I have a synthweaving alt who has crafted literally 150 or more Orange "War Hero" shells since patch 1.2.

 

My guildies want the augment slotted gear for both PvP and PvE - they fill them with mods they get elsewhere.

 

They give me the mats and I craft craft craft away. They are all very grateful for my work, and I enjoy doing it - so it's the best possible solution. I keep them up to date on what's BiS and how what I can make can get them what they want.

 

I do not play this game with crafting as my main goal, but I feel like a very valued member of my guild because I contribute to the gear they wear in both warzones and PvP. I enjoy the feeling. I really think crafting has a good niche in this game as long as you have a group of people you're working for.

[AbsolutGrndZero]

I HALF agree. Let me explain.

 

I think crafting should be EQUAL.

 

So, say I want a new level 50 jedi robe. Well, I have two choices. I can go to a crafter and get a crap one, or I can go do PvP and get an amazig one. This is how it is now. Those who are lazy go to crafters. Those willing to work for their gear, PvP (NOT PvE from what I've seen)

 

Now, I think they should all be equal. Not only does it allw us to support the community and economy, but it gives MORE oportunities to the player.

 

Get my robe from pvp, get my leggings from a synthweaver, buy my mods from the cybertech guy... get my boots and gloves from a flashpoint....

 

Not forcing me to PvP if I want the top gear. While I like PvP, the fact that it's the ONLY way to get the top gear annoys me, as i love crafting and I also love PvE (though I find myslf PvPing in this game a lot more than I ever did in other games.. by the way when do the servers come back up? I want to play Huttball!))

 

Just my bit more than two cents.

[Gawain_the_Green]

My 2 cents...

PvP...PvP gear stronger than Crafted. Crafted stronger than PvE.

PvE...PvE gear stronger than Crafted. Crafted stronger than PvP.

The Expertise stat should be able to make this possible.

Crafters should be able to customize the looks of gear/vehicles. For example , a guild wants all members armor to be white with blue markings.

[parmie]

On the original post, you are limiting yourself by not levelling. If you level to 50 and start to go on Operations, you may get high level schematics to drop.

 

I've learnt a Columi ear piece this way which I'm told is best in slot if crit crafted. One of the ingredients also only drops from Ops, unless I want to buy from the market on the chance for a crit craft.

 

So, not including the crit crafted orange gear, crafting can produce the best gear but only via full PvE activity. Personally, for those who put in the time and pay the repair bills I think thats fairer than letting a level 35 craft to the same level.

[NikitaCH]

On the original post, you are limiting yourself by not levelling. If you level to 50 and start to go on Operations, you may get high level schematics to drop.

 

I've learnt a Columi ear piece this way which I'm told is best in slot if crit crafted. One of the ingredients also only drops from Ops, unless I want to buy from the market on the chance for a crit craft.

 

So, not including the crit crafted orange gear, crafting can produce the best gear but only via full PvE activity. Personally, for those who put in the time and pay the repair bills I think thats fairer than letting a level 35 craft to the same level.

 

Well I'm sure that you might get a few items at lvl 50 that I can't get at lvl 35, but thats not really the point.

 

There is no one selling crafting materials on the server I am on, and there is no one buying the items I am selling, yes I am crafting lvl 50 purple gear with augment slots but they just expire and expire day after day even thogh I try to sell them for just 10-20k more then what it costs to craft the item...

 

Crafting in one way or another should be worth while, and I have several guild mates with lvl 50 chars that is struggeling with the same problem I am. There is just no one buying the items we craft and there is no profit in it to support us continuging to do it.

[Endymionsama]

Here is my 2 cents as a newbie to this game. I started about 2 weeks ago. My highest character right now is 21. I play casually with a few friends at night. Here is my view of crafting in STWOR. The crafting is way too simple. The devs have set this game up in such a way that it really does not take away time from leveling the character if you want to craft. That in itself means it needs something to slow it down some what. Leveling the craft up so fast should not be happening with this. I see this as a huge problem. In the end you have way too many crafters.

 

Now I have done crafting in various games, such as Rift (stupidly easy crafting), Aion (gamble-holic based crafting highly addictive), and City of Heroes (dumbed down crafting). I do feel that crafted gear should be vastly superior than non-crafted and pvp gear for non-pvp encounters. PvP gear needs to be vastly superior to non-pvp gear for pvp encounters. Once crafting is made harder, when I say harder I mean harder to skill up to the max, then you can justify charging crazy prices because you need to make back the money spent as well as time. The problem in this game is there is little to no real time spent. My only gripe in this game is that the costs of crafting need to scale better with the person's income as they level up. Also there needs to be a real death penalty instead of just gear going down in stats when you can just swap it for non-broken gear.

[Lonestrum]

Well I'm sure that you might get a few items at lvl 50 that I can't get at lvl 35, but thats not really the point.

 

There is no one selling crafting materials on the server I am on, and there is no one buying the items I am selling, yes I am crafting lvl 50 purple gear with augment slots but they just expire and expire day after day even thogh I try to sell them for just 10-20k more then what it costs to craft the item...

 

Crafting in one way or another should be worth while, and I have several guild mates with lvl 50 chars that is struggeling with the same problem I am. There is just no one buying the items we craft and there is no profit in it to support us continuging to do it.

 

your point was that a crafter should make equal gear to raiding . They can its callled exotech if you raid patterns drop. You learn those patterns and you craft gear that is equal to raid gear. Also Implant Ear patternrs all drop. And the new 1.2 raid content you can RE the gear that drops and learn that pattern to craft for other people its BOE when you learn it. SO again YOU CAN MAKE THE BEST GEAR AS A CRAFTER IF YOU WANT TO NOT BE DUMB AND LEVEL TO 50 AND PLAY THE GAME. l2 play stop the QQ and get awesome loots and patterns and WIN!

[Lonestrum]

Here is my 2 cents as a newbie to this game. I started about 2 weeks ago. My highest character right now is 21. I play casually with a few friends at night. Here is my view of crafting in STWOR. The crafting is way too simple. The devs have set this game up in such a way that it really does not take away time from leveling the character if you want to craft. That in itself means it needs something to slow it down some what. Leveling the craft up so fast should not be happening with this. I see this as a huge problem. In the end you have way too many crafters.

 

Now I have done crafting in various games, such as Rift (stupidly easy crafting), Aion (gamble-holic based crafting highly addictive), and City of Heroes (dumbed down crafting). I do feel that crafted gear should be vastly superior than non-crafted and pvp gear for non-pvp encounters. PvP gear needs to be vastly superior to non-pvp gear for pvp encounters. Once crafting is made harder, when I say harder I mean harder to skill up to the max, then you can justify charging crazy prices because you need to make back the money spent as well as time. The problem in this game is there is little to no real time spent. My only gripe in this game is that the costs of crafting need to scale better with the person's income as they level up. Also there needs to be a real death penalty instead of just gear going down in stats when you can just swap it for non-broken gear.

 

Tell that to a level 50 that has to pay 100k credits to repair their raid gear after a night of wipes. Thats a big dealth penalty.

[netskink]

Then you haven't been paying attention to the 1.2 changes.

 

All your armour slots (head chest, gloves, legs, feet and wrists) can now have augment slots crafted. And possibly belts, I'm not sure on those yet. Additionally weapons can. That's potentially 8 new augment slots, which is about 140-150 primary stat points (taking you from say ~1900 raid buffed to over 2k, it's something like 7%).

 

This works only because you can also move set bonuses and gear into crafted gear.

 

 

And generally, this is a good thing. Crafters should have something to do that non crafters want to buy. Non crafters want to have things to buy or gather that give them something to do. Something akin to a virtuous cycle in economics. One can (legitimately) argue over specifics, and whether one profession is better off than another by being able to make more valuable items relatively or the like. But that's a maths problem, the principle is the direction they should be taking things. Everyone should have a crafting profession, but only the people who really care about it should be focused on producing the rarest, most expensive parts.

 

Yes, but can any orange item be crafted with an augment slot? I got the impression that only lvl 50 orange gear could be created with an augment slot. Blues/greens of any level can be created with an augment slot as well, but BIS is orange. Correct?

[Kellour]

Crafting in one way or another should be worth while, and I have several guild mates with lvl 50 chars that is struggeling with the same problem I am. There is just no one buying the items we craft and there is no profit in it to support us continuging to do it.

 

I think the point you make here is really what this all boils down to: You're trying to use the word "Worthwhile" interchangeably with "Profitable."

 

I think many of the avid crafters posting in this thread find crafting to be Worthwhile, even if they don't find it to be profitable. That said, I think 1.2 took steps towards giving the various crafting Crew Skills things that are worth selling on the GTN, even if they don't net you 1 Gajillion credits per sale. There are now the Augments that certain crafters can make, the new crystals (both PvE and PvP) that Artificers can make, the Speeders that are no longer bound upon crafting... can Bioware still make more improvements, and give us more things that are profitable? Of course. Does that mean crafting and the Crew Skills as a whole are not Worthwhile? From the sounds of things in this thread, many people would say 'No.'

[Eaglemouse]

I think the point you make here is really what this all boils down to: You're trying to use the word "Worthwhile" interchangeably with "Profitable."

 

I think many of the avid crafters posting in this thread find crafting to be Worthwhile, even if they don't find it to be profitable. That said, I think 1.2 took steps towards giving the various crafting Crew Skills things that are worth selling on the GTN, even if they don't net you 1 Gajillion credits per sale. There are now the Augments that certain crafters can make, the new crystals (both PvE and PvP) that Artificers can make, the Speeders that are no longer bound upon crafting... can Bioware still make more improvements, and give us more things that are profitable? Of course. Does that mean crafting and the Crew Skills as a whole are not Worthwhile? From the sounds of things in this thread, many people would say 'No.'

 

Yes any orange gear...so much so that the price for a orange augmented gear price has already fallen to under 100k per item on my server. SO I don't see where everyone is making all this money...maybe some did the first week but that's about it. I think they messed up, but maybe not if we can RE stuff like rakata gear, but seems like the set bonus are not moving with this stuff also devaluing crafting of raid/pvp gear. Not including the armor being slotted to the item type and the high price to remove mods....all these things lead to losing money. At first the added augment slot seems like it was so good until I noticed they nerfed all augments down a lot. The bonus you get is still good but when you look at the price......I am not sure.

[Akella]

Yes, but can any orange item be crafted with an augment slot? I got the impression that only lvl 50 orange gear could be created with an augment slot. Blues/greens of any level can be created with an augment slot as well, but BIS is orange. Correct?

 

Any orange REGARDLESS OF LEVEL can be crafted with an augment slot.

 

As it stands now crit crafted orange gear with an augment slot is better than the loot drops in the new tier of gear. The new tier of gear has transferrable set bonuses. Slap that in an critted orange piece and suddenly the crafted piece is better than the end game drop.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Akella
inappropriate tone

[NikitaCH]

your point was that a crafter should make equal gear to raiding . They can its callled exotech if you raid patterns drop. You learn those patterns and you craft gear that is equal to raid gear. Also Implant Ear patternrs all drop. And the new 1.2 raid content you can RE the gear that drops and learn that pattern to craft for other people its BOE when you learn it. SO again YOU CAN MAKE THE BEST GEAR AS A CRAFTER IF YOU WANT TO NOT BE DUMB AND LEVEL TO 50 AND PLAY THE GAME. l2 play stop the QQ and get awesome loots and patterns and WIN!

 

All i took from that post was you calling me dumb for playing the game my way.

 

[NikitaCH]

I think the point you make here is really what this all boils down to: You're trying to use the word "Worthwhile" interchangeably with "Profitable."

 

I think many of the avid crafters posting in this thread find crafting to be Worthwhile, even if they don't find it to be profitable. That said, I think 1.2 took steps towards giving the various crafting Crew Skills things that are worth selling on the GTN, even if they don't net you 1 Gajillion credits per sale. There are now the Augments that certain crafters can make, the new crystals (both PvE and PvP) that Artificers can make, the Speeders that are no longer bound upon crafting... can Bioware still make more improvements, and give us more things that are profitable? Of course. Does that mean crafting and the Crew Skills as a whole are not Worthwhile? From the sounds of things in this thread, many people would say 'No.'

 

You mention the speeders no longer being bind on pickup. Yes this is true but as I pointed out a bit earlier the lvl 25 bike costs about 20k to craft if you buy the materials, at the vendor the same bike costs 8k. The purple lvl 50 bike costs 145k to craft if you buy the materials, and actually sells for 225 if im not mistaken from the vendor so here you have a chance to make a bit of profit if you could sell it for 150-200k, but others on the server sells them for 140k thus they loose 5k per sale. Yes it would be cheaper to go gather the materials yourself but if you want to make any profit as a crafter you need to be able to buy the materials for less then what you can sell the item for.

 

There is to little materials to buy and to many selling cheap stuff.

[Shlamorel]

Well I'm sure that you might get a few items at lvl 50 that I can't get at lvl 35, but thats not really the point.

 

There is no one selling crafting materials on the server I am on, and there is no one buying the items I am selling, yes I am crafting lvl 50 purple gear with augment slots but they just expire and expire day after day even thogh I try to sell them for just 10-20k more then what it costs to craft the item...

 

Crafting in one way or another should be worth while, and I have several guild mates with lvl 50 chars that is struggeling with the same problem I am. There is just no one buying the items we craft and there is no profit in it to support us continuging to do it.

 

This may be more of a server population issue than a crafting issue itself.

 

I actually agree with you - my server has few low level mats on the GTN and no purchasing of lower level gear. I think it has more to do with the amount of people playing rather than the crafting system.