The end of the arguement. Is SWTOR in decline? Can it be saved?

[evildestroyer]

BF3 severely hurt EA. Honestly I am glad it did with the awful integration of Battlelog which absolutely sucked.

 

This game is only in just starting out, WoW and every other half decent MMO went through this...

 

Ah i remember a time when people said that about Warhammer or Aion or DC Universe and what happened to them?

 

Oh this isnt 2004, this is 2012. If WoW went through the same stuff then Why did SWTOR have too then? Why couldnt they learn from WoW's mistakes rather than repeat them?

[Saviorr]

Ah i remember a time when people said that about Warhammer or Aion or DC Universe and what happened to them?

 

Oh this isnt 2004, this is 2012. If WoW went through the same stuff then Why did SWTOR have too then? Why couldnt they learn from WoW's mistakes rather than repeat them?

 

WoW went from 200k subs to 400k in the first year. Since then WoW has grown substantially due to superior marketing and reliability.

 

SWTOR is in it's infant stages, you can't learn from that, it's just a level of awareness that needs time to grow.

[itekazzawrrlic]

Ah i remember a time when people said that about Warhammer or Aion or DC Universe and what happened to them?

 

Oh this isnt 2004, this is 2012. If WoW went through the same stuff then Why did SWTOR have too then? Why couldnt they learn from WoW's mistakes rather than repeat them?

 

And Blizzard was just aching to share everything they learned with Bioware, right?

 

Get a clue.

[DarthVindictus]

WIki is so out of date. You should go look at the developers forums. Much better info.

 

sure I'm just saying that's where that 30% statement came from.

[Farstrider]

I have been playing MMO(RPG)s for quite some time.. Take a look at some of the exceptionally weaker games out there at the moment, that do not have a recognisable and high profile IP, that have an F2P model with paid content (funding continued content and growth) there are games that are further behind the curve and still running. It is early days - I believe EA and Bioware can deliver, I was impressed with the overall content in 1.2 even if the features and fixes I wanted for myself where not present (fix the Jedi robe arse model!)

 

All that said, there are features very commonplace in contemporary games that SWTOR lacks, but then its cinematics and VA are ground-breaking - it is clear that VA development really did take priority over inclusion of tried and tested MMO systems at launch, which did not surprise me as story > mmo features was always initially going to be more important for BW.

 

The end really is not nigh... That's Imperial propaganda!

 

Just wait for the expansion pack.. One can only imagine what BW can do with a purchased content update!

[bmanthekid]

WoW went from 200k subs to 400k in the first year. Since then WoW has grown substantially due to superior marketing and reliability.

 

SWTOR is in it's infant stages, you can't learn from that, it's just a level of awareness that needs time to grow.

 

Get a clue kid, Blizzard had a development team of 4000 when WoW came out.

[shireadventurer]

I don't know if the game is in decline, but I do know that it is very difficult to find people to play with in the game. I've bounced from guild to guild, constantly advertise on the chat channels, and flag myself using the in game system, and yet ... nada. Unless you're level 50, no body wants to group with you, and even then at level 50 it seems to be few and far in between. they need to make it easier to form groups, that at least will eliminate the frustration that gamers like me feel at not being able to complete flashpoints or heroics until we have out leveled them.

[Darnu]

I'll say this as nicely as I can, but this is a cold, hard truth. SWTOR won't be saved until EA starts paying attention, taking the game seriously and starts treating players with respect. It truly seems Bioware is being seriously undermined at each and every turn. Instead of getting helpful advise if they needed it, they seem to have been shovelled a load of tripe, which they then explain to players and end up insulting us - well, me anyway.

 

They've laid the groundwork for what could be a great game, now they just need to add the actual gaming elements to it, rather than detracting from what's already there.

 

I think it's a tragedy when a new game consistently only has around 20,000 players on at a time. Especially when it's this new and has so many subscribers (I think...).

Edited April 19, 2012 by Darnu

[Mashy]

And Blizzard was just aching to share everything they learned with Bioware, right?

 

Get a clue.

 

It seems to me that BW didn't send out any of the staff they had to actually go and play any other mmo for at least six months to get some kind of clue as how how to make one of these games. If they had done that then they may have had a game that I would still be playing. I am pissed as hell at BW for making this game what it is and not what it should have been. What a complete waste of an IP. I wanted this game to be so much and held my breath at launch, went through the initial stages thinking it would get better...... all I found was shallow, and lots of it. I really could cry for what this game has turned out to be....

[Longarms-IV]

This is very true. I see SWTOR settling into a 300k +/- game that is constantly churning new players. It will likely plateau there.

 

As I recall, EA said in their shareholder documents that they needed 500k to break even and double that to turn a profit. I don't think EA is in business to "break even"

[Drakkip]

There are some things that are just fundamental that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. Several of my characters don't have enough quick slots. While this is not all game ruining, I just have some abilities I accept I will never use, it is a FUNDAMENTAL game issue.

 

It's like buying a 6 seater car that only comes with 4 seatbelts....

 

There are also way too many places where I get stuck in the world. I find myself having to use /stuck at least once a night. There are places where the terrain is just silly. The collocoid base on Alderan at the top of the steps has a little divot on the one side that you "fall" into and get stuck and /stuck won't remove you. There are several places in and around the armaments on Ilum where you can easily become stuck, heck jumping over operation chests gets you stuck. The issue with being stuck is the game mechanic that you are "falling" when you are stuck and prohibited from jumping. The fact is that /stuck shouldn't be needed to be used early as often as it is.

 

Then there are things like the companion summon bug in that if you are in a group of 3 and downsize to a group of 2 your companion has to be resummoned every time you zone or mount/dismount your speeder.

 

I could go on and on, but you get the picture

[VanRedPool]

The answer is yes. Google knows all. It predicted the rise and fall of other MMo's. It predicted the death of Steve Jobs.

 

In about 6 months, it should fall to 7% of it's initial offering. Right now it's at 36%. Most MMOs shut down at about 5%. The only thing that can save this game is some killer patches or an expansion. Enjoy the year while you can.

 

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=swtor&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q

 

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=%22swtor+guide%22&date=today+12-m&cmpt=q

 

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=%22datacron+swtor%22&date=today+12-m&cmpt=q

Edited April 19, 2012 by VanRedPool

[thegreebler]

There are some things that are just fundamental that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out. Several of my characters don't have enough quick slots. While this is not all game ruining, I just have some abilities I accept I will never use, it is a FUNDAMENTAL game issue.

 

It's like buying a 6 seater car that only comes with 4 seatbelts....

 

There are also way too many places where I get stuck in the world. I find myself having to use /stuck at least once a night. There are places where the terrain is just silly. The collocoid base on Alderan at the top of the steps has a little divot on the one side that you "fall" into and get stuck and /stuck won't remove you. There are several places in and around the armaments on Ilum where you can easily become stuck, heck jumping over operation chests gets you stuck. The issue with being stuck is the game mechanic that you are "falling" when you are stuck and prohibited from jumping. The fact is that /stuck shouldn't be needed to be used early as often as it is.

 

Then there are things like the companion summon bug in that if you are in a group of 3 and downsize to a group of 2 your companion has to be resummoned every time you zone or mount/dismount your speeder.

 

I could go on and on, but you get the picture

 

/cackles with glee!

 

IF you are dense enough to try to run around getting yourself 'stuck' then you deserve to!

 

If you still shuttle about on Ilum where there is no reason to than for vanity purposes... lol that is all i can say

[VanRedPool]

The answer is yes. Google knows all. It predicted the rise and fall of other MMo's. It predicted the death of Steve Jobs.

 

In about 6 months, it should fall to 7% of it's initial offering. Right now it's at 36%. Most MMOs shut down at about 5%. The only thing that can save this game is some killer patches or an expansion. Enjoy the year while you can.

 

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=swtor&date=today%2012-m&cmpt=q

 

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=%22swtor+guide%22&date=today+12-m&cmpt=q

 

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=%22datacron+swtor%22&date=today+12-m&cmpt=q

 

As evidence, google's numbers on the term "housing bubble" spiked just before the bubble burst.

http://www.google.com/insights/search/#q=housing%20bubble&geo=US-CA&date=1%2F2004%2097m&cmpt=date

 

Google can even predict copyright submissions, future patents, stocks, etc. All hail the holy Prophet Google!

[malangus]

If people were buying this game thinking it was going to kill the gaming world with it's pvp, then I just don't know what to say about that.

 

real pvp'ers don't play WoW, SWTOR, Lotro, etc etc. They either play Warhammer, DF or MO or they're waiting for SBEMU.

 

Yes, WOW and SWTOR are very poor in the pvp department.

 

For people that really like PvP, I recommend the Chinese free 2 play games which provide things like realm vs realm, territory wars, guild vs guild, fortress wars (you can have ally guilds helping take on a bigger one), among other things.

Edited April 19, 2012 by malangus

[Drakkip]

Yes, because I run around all night trying to get stuck in quest areas and normal places where one would typically path in completing quest objectives <rolls eyes>

 

I "fall" into stuck places in so many areas it's ridiculous, not because I am trying, but because the topography is that bad. More to my point the reason you actually get stuck is a game mechanic (you can't jump while stuck). It's like saying you crossed in a cross walk that was showing you were supposed to walk but got run over by a car because the red light was burnt out for him so it's your fault for being in the crosswalk... really... cmon now...

 

Edit- Clearly you don't know Ilum because the places I am talking about are RIGHT ON CENTRAL where you are collecting armaments. There must be like 15 places to get stuck there if you are attempting to move to the edges when a Queue pops so when you come out of a WZ you don't get insta ganked... but I guess bad game design is ok in your books because you deserve it for trying to move 40 feet off the path.... clearly you would be a great person to have in charge of game mechanics....

Edited April 19, 2012 by Drakkip

[KBSIP]

As I recall, EA said in their shareholder documents that they needed 500k to break even and double that to turn a profit. I don't think EA is in business to "break even"

 

What is the timeframe for that 500k to give a ROI?

 

What is the timeframe for the 1m to give a ROI?

 

Peak subscription numbers I heard were 1.7m.

 

Did those figures factor in the initial purchase boost of 60$ for the game along with 15$ for initial gametime?

 

That means that initial cash influx from 1.7m subscribers buying at US retail price and purchasing the cheapest but most inefficient month package of 15$ for one month raked in 127.5 million US $ from the first month of subscription of those individuals alone. Also note that even if subscriber numbers hold steady, if its from a balance of influx of completely new players against the outflow of old players, each new player brings in once again an initial 75$ investment.

[Brorim]

The game is great and I love it .

 

You are all pouring numbers out of your, you know what .

 

If you hate it that much why don't you simply leave the forums and the game in stead of lingering around

here spewing your poison ?? Unless you WANT it to fail.

 

I WANT it to succeed, TOR is FOUR months old . Get real people .

 

Talking trash about TOR seems to feed your need for attention. Perhaps you do not believe that

people acknowledge you for your Genius enough on a daily basis, so you come here and try to look like

you are clever and full of insight based on the fact that you can predict why the game is failing ..

 

Rather pathetic if you ask me. ( which you probably won't, and I do not really care if you do, )

 

1.2 fixed everything I found annoying with the game. After such a huge game fix/upgrade things can only IMPROVE.

I'm looking forward to more flashpoints, capitol guild ships ( omg what is that anyways ? ) , more operations, more levels, more planets. The franchise contains limitless possibilities.

 

SWTOR only needs saving from you forum epeens. You are the only danger the game faces . So, if you do not like it.. Go away and leave the game to people that appreciate it .

[malangus]

I think this game is not that bad shape. Yes some servers have been hitted badly by the decrease in population. For example in one I had a 45 ops, was one of those unofficial Brazilian/overseas server. I got tired of too many people speaking Portuguese on chat that decided to re-roll on another server. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one. A couple of days went to see how the server was doing and that one in particular its population have decreased.

 

But have seen PvE servers with over 250 on fleet + over 100 in Coruscant. And that's not counting other planets or the Empire side.

Edited April 19, 2012 by malangus

[Kalfear]

Of course it is declining, if you don't see it, you are straight up ignorant. If anyone was here at release, the servers were all at FULL capacity, now they have trouble breaking LIGHT capacity. Just remember, you'll always have the Star Wars movies, it'll help ease the pain of losing this from your life.

 

<--Honesty

 

its true

 

I really dont understand the fanbois that defend the undefendable

 

Admitting the population is in huge decline is not insulting the game, its just being truthfull

 

To be honest though my personal server has grown abit since 1.2 released, but honestly with how it was protrayed (wrongly imo) as a GOD PATCH, we should expect some increase. The real test will come when the 30 free days up (so 2 months for the returning people as its actually buy 1 get 1 free promotion).

 

I got 90+30 days left myself and my account is set not to renew at this moment

 

As for saving TOR,

 

/shrugs

 

They have been told a billion times over how to save this game and they refuse to comment on the items. Repeating it yet again is just mummble jumble.

 

EA has been told whats missing in this game in beta, billion times over

 

Now its up to them to act on that information.

 

This game will never be the 5-6 million sub game it should have been

and thats a real shame

 

but 800k-1 million dedicated subscribers is not out of the long term question if the right direction is taken.

 

Its really in EAs court and always has been.

[Evilvision]

I think Bioware is very generous in allowing threads such as these. I know if it was my company this thread would just get deleted. Who cares who is fired or hired? If you like the game play it and if you dont just stop and move on.

 

The financial workings of EA doesnt matter to any of us unless you happen to be a shareholder then I think you would be taking your gripes to the shareholder meeting instead of the forums. If the game dies we all move on and if not there will be people who stay and enjoy it. It says a lot about people when even the hint of a game/company dying(even if its true or not) brings them enjoyment.

 

I miss when Forums was used for sharing game information, tips, tricks and most importantly the majority of posters were helpfull people. Now they are all just filled with hate, bashing, trolling.

[VanRedPool]

1.2 fixed everything I found annoying with the game. After such a huge game fix/upgrade things can only IMPROVE.

I'm looking forward to more flashpoints, capitol guild ships ( omg what is that anyways ? ) , more operations, more levels, more planets. The franchise contains limitless possibilities.

 

Did 1.2 fix:

1. Memory hack...

a. ... full health every sec

b. ...teleporting

c. ...instant space mission wins

2. Annoying server downtimes

3. Terrible auction UI, (it's worse than any tinyMudd from 1994)

4. The PVE, and PVP grouping systems

 

My point?

I like the game too, but the game has a LONG way to go. I don't see people paying hard earned money on a game that isn't fully finished.

[Serbegorn]

To me it's not so much the state of the game (which isn't great by any standard imo) as it is the state of the team developing it. I've lost any faith I had in them with this latest patch and their complete silence on the matter. I'm taking my money elsewhere before it gets worse.

[Mashy]

The game is great and I love it .

 

You are all pouring numbers out of your, you know what .

 

If you hate it that much why don't you simply leave the forums and the game in stead of lingering around

here spewing your poison ?? Unless you WANT it to fail.

 

I WANT it to succeed, TOR is FOUR months old . Get real people .

 

Talking trash about TOR seems to feed your need for attention. Perhaps you do not believe that

people acknowledge you for your Genius enough on a daily basis, so you come here and try to look like

you are clever and full of insight based on the fact that you can predict why the game is failing ..

 

Rather pathetic if you ask me. ( which you probably won't, and I do not really care if you do, )

 

1.2 fixed everything I found annoying with the game. After such a huge game fix/upgrade things can only IMPROVE.

I'm looking forward to more flashpoints, capitol guild ships ( omg what is that anyways ? ) , more operations, more levels, more planets. The franchise contains limitless possibilities.

 

SWTOR only needs saving from you forum epeens. You are the only danger the game faces . So, if you do not like it.. Go away and leave the game to people that appreciate it .

 

I like your post, it made me giggle some. I too was like you and Bioware could do no wrong for the longest time... what amazed me was how quick that changed. Like the old saying, It takes five years to gain a customers loyalty and five seconds to lose it.....

[Serbegorn]

I think Bioware is very generous in allowing threads such as these.

 

LOL Yeah, if you start any other threads on this topic it's locked immediately and you're directed to post in this 500+ page quagmire. If they didn't do that every single thread on the first page of the gen forums would be a negative one and that sure doesn't look good.