Consumption/Noble Sacrifice

[JaysonF]

So I am not even going to waste time reiterating what has already been said about the terrible nerfs, so let me skip to my real question:

 

Why would you give a healing class a skill like Consumption/Noble Sacrifice in the first place? The amount of force it restores is negligible and immediately undone after a single heal, it decreases our force regen if unbuffed (only 8 force/sec? useless anyways), and takes 12/16% of TOTAL health meaning we can actually KILL ourselves. When I am low on force and health because massive AoE dmg is going out, what am I supposed to do?

 

Also, why only give Sorcs/Sages this ability? Mercs and Ops don't have a similar ability! It was not so bad when the Force Surge/Resplendence proc made that irrelevant, but how does forcing the healer to take their health to regen force (since there is basically no battle force regen) make any sense at all?

 

While I understand endless force is an unfair advantage and should have been changed, I personally believe this was the wrong direction to take it in.

 

I would love to hear others' thoughts on this subject as well. As for the devs, it would be much appreciate if someone responded as well.

 

Thank you.

[Yazule]

So I am not even going to waste time reiterating what has already been said about the terrible nerfs, so let me skip to my real question:

 

Why would you give a healing class a skill like Consumption/Noble Sacrifice in the first place? The amount of force it restores is negligible and immediately undone after a single heal, it decreases our force regen if unbuffed (only 8 force/sec? useless anyways), and takes 12/16% of TOTAL health meaning we can actually KILL ourselves. When I am low on force and health because massive AoE dmg is going out, what am I supposed to do?

 

Also, why only give Sorcs/Sages this ability? Mercs and Ops don't have a similar ability! It was not so bad when the Force Surge/Resplendence proc made that irrelevant, but how does forcing the healer to take their health to regen force (since there is basically no battle force regen) make any sense at all?

 

While I understand endless force is an unfair advantage and should have been changed, I personally believe this was the wrong direction to take it in.

 

I would love to hear others' thoughts on this subject as well. As for the devs, it would be much appreciate if someone responded as well.

 

Thank you.

 

to answer your first question they put it in so if you run out of heals you can generate more... spam it three times and stand in your own aoe, life is good

 

to answer your also question you should really research before saying they dont have it, Bodyguards have vent heat, which is the same effect only backwards, but heat is backwards to force power so net effect is the same.

 

i personally have not noticed a issues with the change, and quite frankly the concept that if my health is low i cannot get more power makes you actually work at your class a bit more... but that is just me and my sorc healer is just an alt (but one that is healing in raids from time to time)

[Daellia]

to answer your also question you should really research before saying they dont have it, Bodyguards have vent heat, which is the same effect only backwards, but heat is backwards to force power so net effect is the same.

 

This would be accurate if Sorcs has an effect similar to Innervate. A moderate cooldown (2-3 minutes) ability that restored a large portion of our force, and otherwise had a force-neutral rotation available with appropriate use of a filler. We have no filler, we have no for-neutral rotation. Consumption is part of our standard force maintenance. Vent Heat (and Adrenaline Probe for Operatives) are emergency resource restoration mechanics for recovering from heavy burst healing. Sorcs have no such button.

 

Ideally, what they should have done was shift the regen mechanic to simply passively proc off Innervate crits, and leave Consumption as it is base, an emergency stop-gap measure that trades health for additional resources if we overtax ourselves. It would have no cooldown, unlike the BH or Operative version, but would cost HP, balancing it out.

 

Consumption as an active part of our standard regen is just clunky.

[minervasunrider]

For PvE I think the consumption change makes a lot of sense; we used to have totally faceroll force regen (you could essentially go down to 0 force and continue to heal without a loss in effectiveness) and now we have slightly more interesting force regen (in that we have to pace ourselves with the rhythm of the fight and consume whenever the rhythm of the fight allows it). Running with multiple healers, especially op/smug HoTs, almost erases any negative impact of the nerf.

 

I healed hard mode Explosive Conflict with an operative healer and could continue a normal consumption rotation except in phases of heavy damage pressure (certain transitions during the final boss, for example). Standing in my own purple circles, resurgence, and the agents' HoTs basically allowed me to consume on demand (with the proc from innervate), and in certain phases to build up all 4 stacks of force regen penalty (during phases when nobody is taking damage).

[dipstik]

Wow. So sorcerers are good if you are being healed by an agent. Good to know.

 

/sarcasm

 

The nerf of med pacs (used to eat like 6 per operation) innervate, surge, and dark infusion (we no longer have a big heal) makes the healing sorcerer no where near as good as the op. Anyone who has operation healed with both knows that scoundrels/operatives have a very sustainable energy mechanic. Sage/sorc had a remedial energy restoration system, with a larger pool. From 1.0 to now, I have preferred agent/scoundrel healing due to a more interesting rotation and more manageable proc.

 

Frankly, I do not recommend using sorcerers to heal if the boss has an aoe that hits the entire group for more than 35%.

[JaysonF]

 

to answer your also question you should really research before saying they dont have it, Bodyguards have vent heat, which is the same effect only backwards, but heat is backwards to force power so net effect is the same.

 

 

Does Vent Heat take away your health? Does it increase the rate at which you generate heat (since Consumption decreases our force regen rate)? No. Thanks and bye.

[TheLordMaster]

Thank you for making this thread, I thought long and hard about making this thread but thought I would be ridiculed or something. The changes now as it stands are *********** dumb. Against pre-mades where I have a guard and the fights are long and super close I become worthless as the fight goes on because I essentially have to decide if I want to kill myself or let me team die.

 

Its seriously like they skill capped our class if we chose healing. Essentially Bioware is saying if a fight lasts long because we rolled sorc heals we are going to be taken out of the equation because we will either kill ourselves or our team when we run out of force.

 

Bioware get a clue. It isnt fun to run out of force in PVP or PVE. What was so wrong about the way it was before? The other changes are fine, but us running out of force is stupid.

 

WE SHOULD if our skill allows be able to Hugely impact a fight, right now the changes prevent us from doing that. Its not fun at all.

Edited April 17, 2012 by TheLordMaster

[NissiK]

Its true. Against premades our options is run out of force and kill ourselves or not heal and allow our team to die. Running out of force isn't fun Bioware. Edited April 18, 2012 by NissiK

[Daayz]

In pve it is annoying but ok. In pvp it is stupid because when you go out of force it is basically better to suicide and respawn with full force rather than trying to regen - which is not how it should be. Merc and Ops can heal forvever in pvp as long as they manage their force, sorc cannot however and is forced to leave combat or suicide to regain force.

[TheLordMaster]

In pve it is annoying but ok. In pvp it is stupid because when you go out of force it is basically better to suicide and respawn with full force rather than trying to regen - which is not how it should be. Merc and Ops can heal forvever in pvp as long as they manage their force, sorc cannot however and is forced to leave combat or suicide to regain force.

 

Yea i had to ask twice today in Voidstars to stop healing me, and ungaurd me so I could die and get force back. Couldn't regen fast enough to matter and I was bottoming out despite standing in AOE's and using consumption every time innervate proc'ed.

[Sasheria]

In PvP, I got nothing.

 

In PvE, It forces players to play a little smarter. I use to remember that members of my guild use to go "willy nilly" cause they know I (a sorc healer) can save them at the end of the day (most of the time) but now, they have to be a little more careful cause I don't have fast big heals and AoE are being use to heal myself while using consumption to heal others.

 

The changes do make players more careful when in PvE. Tank are more careful when they know AoE heals might not go their way (healing a bunch of melee) when Bosses are doing their AoE. Melee attackers will move away when big AoE is coming. Range attacker will not pull aggro as much etc etc.

 

There are some good, but the nerf does hurt still. But we can compensate by smart playing.

[hulkweazel]

Also, why only give Sorcs/Sages this ability? Mercs and Ops don't have a similar ability! It was not so bad when the Force Surge/Resplendence proc made that irrelevant, but how does forcing the healer to take their health to regen force (since there is basically no battle force regen) make any sense at all?

In case you didn't notice, Mercs =/= Sorcs, and Ops =/= Sorcs. They have different abilities and different strengths/weaknesses. What a revelation.

 

Operatives probably have the easiest energy management of the three healing classes post-1.2. But they also lack effective AoE healing capability, effective burst healing/emergency heals, and utility spells like friendly pull.

 

In my opinion, it encourages raid groups to use two different healers in order to cover each other's weaknesses. I run with a Sorc healer, and when he runs OOF I cover for him during a relative downtime while he regens. On the other hand, he is much, much better at keeping the group up with AoE heals and keeping people up through damage spikes.

 

Now I admit I don't play a sorc healer so I don't know the extent of the nerfs, but what I do know is that Sorcs are still much more effective in certain areas. I can't really speak for PvP, I'm mainly talking about PvE.

Edited April 18, 2012 by hulkweazel

[TheLordMaster]

In case you didn't notice, Mercs =/= Sorcs, and Ops =/= Sorcs. They have different abilities and different strengths/weaknesses. What a revelation.

 

Operatives probably have the easiest energy management of the three healing classes post-1.2. But they also lack effective AoE healing capability, effective burst healing/emergency heals, and utility spells like friendly pull.

 

In my opinion, it encourages raid groups to use two different healers in order to cover each other's weaknesses. I run with a Sorc healer, and when he runs OOF I cover for him during a relative downtime while he regens. On the other hand, he is much, much better at keeping the group up with AoE heals and keeping people up through damage spikes.

 

Now I admit I don't play a sorc healer so I don't know the extent of the nerfs, but what I do know is that Sorcs are still much more effective in certain areas. I can't really speak for PvP, I'm mainly talking about PvE.

 

That is not true. Operative healers have a very very good AOE heal that heals for JUST as much as the sorc AOE circle. They can cast it on themselves and become an AOE heal beacon, OR cast it on another player turning them into the beacon. Operatives in my guild have done tests with me and the AOE healing is just as strong per tick.

 

Their utility comes in a different form. Stealth. OP healers stealthing into the ez or past fire pits and allowing jugs to jump to them is huge. Same with getting away when they are low on health or low on force.

Edited April 19, 2012 by TheLordMaster

[Metalmac]

That is not true. Operative healers have a very very good AOE heal that heals for JUST as much as the sorc AOE circle. They can cast it on themselves and become an AOE heal beacon, OR cast it on another player turning them into the beacon. Operatives in my guild have done tests with me and the AOE healing is just as strong per tick.

 

Their utility comes in a different form. Stealth. OP healers stealthing into the ez or past fire pits and allowing jugs to jump to them is huge. Same with getting away when they are low on health or low on force.

 

LOL any damage breaks stealth. You do not have a clue about Operatives or Scoundrel and Stealth.

[Hairyzac]

LOL any damage breaks stealth. You do not have a clue about Operatives or Scoundrel and Stealth.

 

Damage breaks stealth you say? This is the first any of us have heard of this. Thank you for clearing up the confusion.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Hairyzac

[Wynn]

That is not true. Operative healers have a very very good AOE heal that heals for JUST as much as the sorc AOE circle. They can cast it on themselves and become an AOE heal beacon, OR cast it on another player turning them into the beacon. Operatives in my guild have done tests with me and the AOE healing is just as strong per tick.

 

Their utility comes in a different form. Stealth. OP healers stealthing into the ez or past fire pits and allowing jugs to jump to them is huge. Same with getting away when they are low on health or low on force.

 

Yeah not so much I have all 3 healers now Sorc aoe is the best pre and post patch. Its madness to think that Op/Smuggler heal is like Beacon, it is an aoe that hits 4 people and was trash prepatch, post patch it feel like your helping a raid when you cast it now which is nice. Force users heal also hits 8 people vs the other 2 specs only hitting 4.

 

Your pull can do the same thing as the Op stealthing over a gap and having a Jugg jump to you.

 

Consumption/Noble Sacrifice is fine because we heal in raid teams in pve and the damage you take is share between the healers. As for pvp fights last so short that you can get your out of combat regen going or you die. I look at it this way if all 3 specs can heal raid bosses that last 7+ mins, pvp healing fights are so short that most times regen doesn't matter I think I just finish a voidstar were I use Consumption maybe 3 times.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Wynn

[TheLordMaster]

LOL any damage breaks stealth. You do not have a clue about Operatives or Scoundrel and Stealth.

 

I realize that damage breaks stealth however running around a corner popping Tox Scan to remove dots and vanishing works like a charm I do I have a BM Operative so I do know how to play one quite well.

 

 

Yeah not so much I have all 3 healers now Sorc aoe is the best pre and post patch. Its madness to think that Op/Smuggler heal is like Beacon, it is an aoe that hits 4 people and was trash prepatch, post patch it feel like your helping a raid when you cast it now which is nice. Force users heal also hits 8 people vs the other 2 specs only hitting 4.

 

Your pull can do the same thing as the Op stealthing over a gap and having a Jugg jump to you.

 

Consumption/Noble Sacrifice is fine because we heal in raid teams in pve and the damage you take is share between the healers. As for pvp fights last so short that you can get your out of combat regen going or you die. I look at it this way if all 3 specs can heal raid bosses that last 7+ mins, pvp healing fights are so short that most times regen doesn't matter I think I just finish a voidstar were I use Consumption maybe 3 times.

 

Yes OP heal only heals 4 people, however it does move around unlike the sorc AOE and its ability to re-adjust mid fight makes it just as different but quite strong.

 

Consumption/Noble sacrifice IS fine in raids I do not disagree with you there. If your running out of force in PvE its because your raid members are taking to much damage or they are not killing the boss fast enough.

In PVP however I CAN AND DO routinely run out of force. Not so much in Hutball because of the layout of the map making fights last short. However Civil War, Void Star, and the new battleground DO have long as hell fights where you will be run out of force.

Edited April 19, 2012 by TheLordMaster

[viictoor]

LOL any damage breaks stealth. You do not have a clue about Operatives or Scoundrel and Stealth.

 

LOL Metalmac you baddie, if you play an operative you really should probably learn how to Flashbang, LOS, Toxin Scan and then Vanish.

[minervasunrider]

As far as PvE goes, I have noticed nothing in combat logs to indicate that the consumption change has put the class at a serious disadvantage. Yes, we have to work with other healers to maintain our resource. No, this isn't actually a problem.

 

As for PvP, it's clear that force issues *will* arise under pressure, but I still see sorcs and sages performing consistently as the top healers (perhaps with less of an edge than they used to have). The drop in performance probably has more to do with the force bending changes than with consumption itself (if you live long enough in a PvP match to run into force management as an issue before, say, dying, then you are probably in a pretty good place anyways).

 

In my own experience, both are of course more challenging now, but the change has only emphasized how easy it was previously.

[hulkweazel]

That is not true. Operative healers have a very very good AOE heal that heals for JUST as much as the sorc AOE circle. They can cast it on themselves and become an AOE heal beacon, OR cast it on another player turning them into the beacon. Operatives in my guild have done tests with me and the AOE healing is just as strong per tick.

 

Their utility comes in a different form. Stealth. OP healers stealthing into the ez or past fire pits and allowing jugs to jump to them is huge. Same with getting away when they are low on health or low on force.

LOL. Please get your facts straight. Recuperative Nanotech heals 4 targets, not 8, and heals for roughly half as much, as it lasts 6 seconds as opposed to 10. In terms of healing output, that's a total of 1/4 the amount a Sorc can put out. I'm not complaining about that, just stating the facts.

 

Stealth is not utility. It does nothing in PvE other than make trash mobs slightly easier to deal with and save on repair bills. In PvP, healing Operatives rarely use stealth at all, since a stealthed Operative isn't healing anyone and they get no benefit from it. In any case, I'm talking primarily from PvE perspective, and you really don't know what you're talking about.

Edited April 19, 2012 by hulkweazel

[Metalmac]

LOL Metalmac you baddie, if you play an operative you really should probably learn how to Flashbang, LOS, Toxin Scan and then Vanish.

 

Sorry I play a Scoundrel not a Operative. I have 83 Valor and do know what I am doing in PVP or PVE.

 

I was pointing out that he said we could run in stealth through a fire pit and healing.

 

This is untrue and you all know this. You can not heal in stealth and you can not take fire damage and stay in stealth.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Metalmac

[TheLordMaster]

Sorry I play a Scoundrel not a Operative. I have 83 Valor and do know what I am doing in PVP or PVE.

 

I was pointing out that he said we could run in stealth through a fire pit and healing.

 

This is untrue and you all know this. You can not heal in stealth and you can not take fire damage and stay in stealth.

 

Yea that not what I meant at all of course you can't just RUN through an active fire pit. I meant you can stealth and work your way across the catwalks past fire pits that AREN'T active and give your team a target either for Juggs/Guards to jump to, or to receive a pass. While this isn't exactly a sorc pull it can be similar and in some ways safer because the entire enemy team doesn't see you doing it, where as I can't tell you how many times I have been pulled back before I get my pull off or chased and knocked off a catwalk because the other team sees me doing it.

 

Now on the other hand sure an operative can get pulled back once they receive a pass but so can a sorc. Are the mechanics the same. NO but Stealth is a VERY powerful utility spell that operative players just LOVE to magically forget they have when comparing themselves to other classes.

[hulkweazel]

Yea that not what I meant at all of course you can't just RUN through an active fire pit. I meant you can stealth and work your way across the catwalks past fire pits that AREN'T active and give your team a target either for Juggs/Guards to jump to, or to receive a pass. While this isn't exactly a sorc pull it can be similar and in some ways safer because the entire enemy team doesn't see you doing it, where as I can't tell you how many times I have been pulled back before I get my pull off or chased and knocked off a catwalk because the other team sees me doing it.

 

Now on the other hand sure an operative can get pulled back once they receive a pass but so can a sorc. Are the mechanics the same. NO but Stealth is a VERY powerful utility spell that operative players just LOVE to magically forget they have when comparing themselves to other classes.

Sigh... why must people act like they're an expert on a class they don't play? You really are clueless about Operatives. Stop pretending like you know the class.

 

What you describe is a terrible strategy. Stealthing to the goal line forces the rest of your team to play a man down. If your team loses the ball, you're now stuck somewhere where you can't help your team. Stealth has minimal effectiveness in Huttball and an Operative's lack of a gap closer makes them a greater liability in Huttball than anything else.

[Devenia]

Responding to OP: Why is endless force an unfair advantage? Why should we be the only class to have a hard-limit on how long we can perform our role? Saying that Sorcerer healers should "not have infinite force" is ridiculous. Maybe if you want to say that we should have a limit on the amount of burst healing we can do it would be fine, but all other classes in this game have infinite resources. Sorcerers should not be different.

[hulkweazel]

Responding to OP: Why is endless force an unfair advantage? Why should we be the only class to have a hard-limit on how long we can perform our role? Saying that Sorcerer healers should "not have infinite force" is ridiculous. Maybe if you want to say that we should have a limit on the amount of burst healing we can do it would be fine, but all other classes in this game have infinite resources. Sorcerers should not be different.

You can have infinite resources if other healing classes had an AoE heal as strong as yours, Bubble, and friendly pull.

 

Yes, different healing classes have different healing abilities. What a shocker.