Commando Nerfs

[FrogSkin]

Obviously there are a lot of people complaining that Commandos are now broken.

 

The most common excuse is that we lost our utility.

 

Thats the problem I have in that, ***. We didn't loose any skills that we didn't have prior to 1.2 coming out.

 

All that happened was we lost some DPS and the CM's got screwed.

 

Those that were Gunnery or Assault prior to 1.2 have had their damage moved around. I dont understand the argument that we are now useless when we are basically the same as pre 1.2. Just pre 1.2 grav round was easy to spam.

 

I keep reading this argument that if you come up against someone with half a brain we are now useless. I dont get how changing our damage around equates to now being useless.

 

The other argument I keep reading is if we get focused we are stuffed, well I do believe if your were properly focused prior to 1.2 you would have been stuffed.

 

This isn't a troll, I am trying to understand how our utility has been severely hampered from what it was prior to 1.2.

[Lexb]

Devs lied in their numbers about damage reduction. that's why i''m . I don't care about the 10% damage reduction. But at overall, i can assure you empirically that we got nerfed in an amount of 40% of commandos efficiency (to me, imo, it's empirically near 50%)

 

At my fist login, BW just took away almost 1k hp of my commando. That 1k more hp i worked my *** off during days hunting datacroms (including the 10+) and i felt like BW saying "let's make another dumb customer feel like an idiot for spending days trying to improve his toon stats and let's give these stats free to a noob/newbie jedi/sith because jedis/sith are more iconic..."

 

This is for me learn once for all to use my time to get peoples money and not to use my time and my money into young devs/producers game when they are more worried about having a good playtime at cost of screwing customers making them feel like idiots.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Panthian]

Devs lied in their numbers about damage reduction. that's why i''m . I don't care about the 10% damage reduction. But at overall, i can assure you empirically that we got nerfed in an amount of 40% of commandos efficiency (to me, imo, it's empirically near 50%)

 

At my fist login, BW just took away almost 1k hp of my commando. That 1k more hp i worked my *** off during days hunting datacroms (including the 10+) and i felt like BW saying "let's make another dumb customer feel like an idiot for spending days trying to improve his toon stats and let's give these stats free to a noob/newbie jedi/sith because jedis/sith are more iconic..."

 

This is for me learn once for all to use my time to get peoples money and not to use my time and my money into young devs/producers game when they are more worried about having a good playtime at cost of screwing customers making them feel like idiots.

 

You know.. if you adjust your rotation accordingly you actually gotten a dps boost with this patch.

 

Some of the nerves where definately overdue, we DID need them, cant say Im happy with them but but Im realistic.

 

Your complaint about jedi/sith.. sorry but melee definately needed some help here and there especially pve wise, but dont worry I can garantee you, all classes will get their fair share of buffs and nerves in the near future.

[Lexb]

You know.. if you adjust your rotation accordingly you actually gotten a dps boost with this patch.

 

Some of the nerves where definately overdue, we DID need them, cant say Im happy with them but but Im realistic.

 

Your complaint about jedi/sith.. sorry but melee definately needed some help here and there especially pve wise, but dont worry I can garantee you, all classes will get their fair share of buffs and nerves in the near future.

 

Ty Panthian for the encoraging words, but i dont think it's just a simple question of rotation. BW wanted us nerfed and wanted us nerfed hard. BW wanted a recall of one it's products (commandos), and BW sure did a recall to make it WORST, more defective and less finished then before. And it was done without further testing and not asking the customers about it.

 

i'm already conformed to a "roleplay" commando in a "balanced game" for few more days till my gamecard expires.

[Glorionn]

Lexb, can you go to a boss dummy, DPS it for 3-4 minutes, then post your numbers? My numbers were more than acceptable.

[Lexb]

Lexb, can you go to a boss dummy, DPS it for 3-4 minutes, then post your numbers? My numbers were more than acceptable.

 

good idea but...

 

The dummy don't melt you in 5 seconds with or without doing anything to prevent it in a sound bugged WZ.

[Panthian]

Ty Panthian for the encoraging words, but i dont think it's just a simple question of rotation. BW wanted us nerfed and wanted us nerfed hard. BW wanted a recall of one it's products (commandos), and BW sure did a recall to make it WORST, more defective and less finished then before. And it was done without further testing and not asking the customers about it.

 

i'm already conformed to a "roleplay" commando in a "balanced game" for few more days till my gamecard expires.

 

Im guessing you are talking about pvp. because in pve we still are pretty much the king of the hill, but you cant just spam grav round anymore. You now have to utilize the hail of fire procs and use demo round when ready, if you do it properly your dps DID go up, our dps was slighly lower before the patch, just takes more attention and exocution to pull it off.

 

The charred barrier nerf for instance is definately accalled for, it was a bit over the top, still I wish they didnt, but they did right to do so.

 

There have been plenty of testing on the class even before it went to the PTR, while I agree its far from perfect, they did a decent job, we arent gimped, we just arent as easy to play anymore.

[Glorionn]

My understanding is that survivability has hardly been touched. Re-itemisation of BM gear. But thats about it. But that happened to everyone. I'm not sure what your problem is then?

[Lexb]

My understanding is that survivability has hardly been touched. Re-itemisation of BM gear. But thats about it. But that happened to everyone. I'm not sure what your problem is then?

 

Are you supposed to be serious using this argument?

 

Instead to have a product melted in 10 seconds (before 1.2) now its melted in 5 and instead to have a "heal" to prevent something(?), it only delay the melt time in more one or two seconds.

 

And yes i`m Biochem with all rakata stims, buffs and medipac possible to be made. And my commando is Valor 79. And yeah i have all the old BM gear stuff, got before the patch.

 

And hell yeah, survivability was nerfed and while this was not enough, survivability was nerfed a 2nd time when others got buffed.

 

Survivability... Take a quick look at forums posts about that. I'm assuming that you have a commando at level 50 right? If not NVM...

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Glorionn]

I have a gunnery specced commando, a guardian and a sage at 50. All 3 are BM titled, one is nearly a WH. I have cleared all NiM content prior to 1.2, and have nearly cleared SM EC (ran out of time).

 

Apart from your horrible language skills, I'm honestly struggling to understand what you are writing.

 

So far you have just told me survivability has been nerfed, you havnt said how. Then you tell me to read other posts. News to you champ, 90% of the posts on this forum are whining responses to changes backed up by ZERO FACT.

[Lexb]

I have a gunnery specced commando, a guardian and a sage at 50. All 3 are BM titled, one is nearly a WH. I have cleared all NiM content prior to 1.2, and have nearly cleared SM EC (ran out of time).

 

Apart from your horrible language skills, I'm honestly struggling to understand what you are writing.

 

So far you have just told me survivability has been nerfed, you havnt said how. Then you tell me to read other posts. News to you champ, 90% of the posts on this forum are whining responses to changes backed up by ZERO FACT.

 

Let's be direct, and sry english is not my 1st language.

 

Before patch 1.2, 1x1 your commando vs a mara, same gear, what's the chances you left alive and he dead?

 

And now?

 

That can be called survivability.

 

About whining, i can whine the *** off the game if i want, it's my right, i paid for it and you are nobody to say i can't whine or complain for something i'm paying for and i really hope you not work to Bioware because in my country it's against law to tell a customer to not complain about a company if you work on it.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Panthian]

Let's be direct, and sry english is not my 1st language.

 

Before patch 1.2, 1x1 your commando vs a mara, same gear, what's the chances you left alive and he dead?

 

And now?

 

That can be called survivability.

 

About whining, i can whine the *** off the game if i want, it's my right, i paid for it and you are nobody to say i can't whine or complain for something i'm paying for and i really hope you not work to Bioware because in my country it's against law to tell a customer to not complain about a company if you work on it.

 

You are right, you are as entitled to whine as the next, but instead you could listen to others and learn.

All you really need is an adjustment in your tactics.

[Glorionn]

So what has changed in our survivability specifically?

 

That sounds like a problem to do with maras being overly strong (that's my oppinion, theyve been made easier to play and they didnt need to get touched at all).

 

PvP is not about 1v1 either. Balancing a game about 1v1 is just going to lead to total homogenisastion.

[Lexb]

So what has changed in our survivability specifically?

 

That sounds like a problem to do with maras being overly strong (that's my oppinion, theyve been made easier to play and they didnt need to get touched at all).

 

PvP is not about 1v1 either. Balancing a game about 1v1 is just going to lead to total homogenisastion.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

 

"Player versus player, or PvP, is a type of multiplayer interactive conflict within a game between two or more live participants"

 

And btw, what was the criteria to decide wich class won and wich class loose in 1x1? The lore?

 

In a balanced game pvp enviroment or you win a 1x1 or you have tools tool to flee or lure or whatever you can call a stronger class. As commando our tool in most of 1x1 fights are simply die to make you share part to help others have fun, because BW did not spent the already paid time to think more about this class. Plain and simple.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Glorionn]

Oh wow, so you cant bring in any sort of math. Any mechanics changes. You argue about the semantics of Pvp. NEWSFLASH - this game utilises the concept of organised PvP and that is outlined by the 4 warzones that have 2 teams of 8.

 

THIS GAME WILL NEVER, EVER, BE BALANCED AROUND 1V1. EVER. I can't give you a quote from a dev. BEcause the devs would never need to say something to damn obvious.

 

If you want to argue a point, bring up some facts. I have some great numbers of me on practice dummies, in WZs (where there were 4 premades in the WZ). All you have said is Commandos suck, we get ***** in a 1v1 with maras, and that you're only gonna log onto it in order to RP. GIVE US SOME HARD FACT.

 

People need to understand also that we do not need to top damage in a WZ to be the best - our Burst is quite good, and that will be more than enough reason to have at least one of us in a rated WZ team.

[fongers]

I don't think our class was nerfed that hard. It just seems that way because JK/SWs got buffed significantly and shadow/assassins didn't get nerfed at all.

 

In PvP we're really not meant to be a 1v1 class. We're meant to sit back, let someone else draw the enemy's attention, then nuke them from the back row. 1v1 situations are sometimes unavoidable but if you go looking for mano-a-mano duels with melee classes you're trying to push the class into a role it wasn't designed for.

[Glorionn]

Fongers understand the concept of PvP in this game! Each class provides a role, more in depth than simply DPS, Tank, Healer.

[Lexb]

Oh wow, so you cant bring in any sort of math. Any mechanics changes. You argue about the semantics of Pvp. NEWSFLASH - this game utilises the concept of organised PvP and that is outlined by the 4 warzones that have 2 teams of 8.

 

THIS GAME WILL NEVER, EVER, BE BALANCED AROUND 1V1. EVER. I can't give you a quote from a dev. BEcause the devs would never need to say something to damn obvious.

 

If you want to argue a point, bring up some facts. I have some great numbers of me on practice dummies, in WZs (where there were 4 premades in the WZ). All you have said is Commandos suck, we get ***** in a 1v1 with maras, and that you're only gonna log onto it in order to RP. GIVE US SOME HARD FACT.

 

People need to understand also that we do not need to top damage in a WZ to be the best - our Burst is quite good, and that will be more than enough reason to have at least one of us in a rated WZ team.

 

Well so if the game is not balanced around a single 1x1 fight it's doomed to never be balanced at all and it only proofs that's devs don`t have a clue about what is this single word called " balance" and they still are dumb enough to make their lack of knowledge of that vital part in a mmo pvp in a public statement.

 

While is acceptable and inevitable in a 1x1, one of the parts will loose they made the programing code, not the skills decide who will be. Without making any effort to give any tool like a miracle force run, an effective heavy armor, a stun effective enough to prevent this. That's why, besides all the efforts you guys do, besides all the fun you guys having The programming code, not your skills, is deciding that commandos, as the class is now sucks.

 

I don't have problems with the patch notes, and the intended changes, my problem is the overall state they left us AFTER the patch. If you not agree, good to you. Have fun.

 

It was already said. The players made a wrong choice when they picked commandos as their mains. I Really envy you guys. Have 3 alts, WHs, full geared.

 

I need to start thinking sell my family as slaves and put my house on bank to get money to spent my life only playing

 

But... lets see i prefer to see a game as a product, myself as customer and realize if BW someday starts to sell food or cars as BW marketing dept sell games they will be in real trouble. From my pov, I don't buy, lets say a Photoshop, and after 4 months adobe creates a patch removing some of its features and says if i cant do the same as before, it's lack of my skills. Because they off course knows that is a dumb argument to use.

 

And omg, both are softwares

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[Daiyukie]

Fongers understand the concept of PvP in this game! Each class provides a role, more in depth than simply DPS, Tank, Healer.

 

Yep, fongers gets his class. How I wish others were as perceptive..

[Lexb]

I love the word "concept".

 

It's so vague. It can be used to sell an expensive but usual cake, can be used to sell a pricy, but usual car, a haircut, a candy, a magazine... It's so vague that it fits in everything.

 

Including making ppl feel they are more special than others.

 

The correct use of the word "concept" here, is to make you pay the same as everyone for the exact same game and receive a unfinished product on purpose, do a recall on it, to make it worst than before and let the customer think he got a better product. And the most important part, if he is not happy, make the customer thinks he lacks the skill to use it properly. And if he keep insisting to complain, other customers will do the company job for them.

 

It's an interesting concept. Used with success to sell unfinished products.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Lexb

[TomerRosenthal]

As per war zone, I heal at about the same rate as before. Even though the healing was "nerfed" as it is put. However, my main concern from the beginning is that the classes are not balanced for pvp. Which makes pvp frustrating. Every player should be able to defeat another player in the same level carrying same level gear. It is important because you can never tell what players enter a war zone. When you enter, for example with 4 healers, the war zone is lost...

 

From what I've seen. Healers and tanks are underpowered in pvp, except for consulars/inquisitors. But that's a story for another time.

[Glorionn]

I have nfi what you're going on about with the word "concept." I asked you, the whinging individual to give empirical proof as to why Commandos are dead. You have not done so, and instead start linking meanings of PvP from wikipedia and talking about "concept".

 

When will the bads learn, that no one will take them seriously if they do not give actual evidence. Evidence is not "omg a mara beat me 1v1."

[TomerRosenthal]

For empirical data please go to biowares offices. If it is facts you want, these there is no problem to give. According to what you say pvp is ba lanced towards team play, right? Team play indicates that several characters of several roles of several classes go into every single pvp. Can you control that? Can bioware control that?

Not at the moment. It is completely possible for severely unbalanced teams to go into war zones. Not to mention teams with inequal number of players.

 

So what are the options for balanced play? Either you enforce each warzone with specific roles or you make the game balanced 1v1.

 

That's my opinion. Please counter this logic. Logically, if you can.

[Glorionn]

There will of course be the perfect 8 man set-up. That set-up, in my oppinion will use a commando due to our burst ability. However, the larger the group, the more room for error, and the less impact an individual class will actually make.

 

Empirically, our DPS is fine compared to other classes. Using vacuum testing (dummies).

 

We will see how the best rated team goes and what they have.

[TomerRosenthal]

I don't think the dps has been tempered with so much. Healing wasn't also (in the end i can do the same amount I did before). But the margin of error is not that big in warzones. Especially if they a low unbalanced situations player number wise... Also, I happened to enter quite a few warzones with 4 commando medics. Naturally we lost. Medics can't kill a thing...

 

I'm pretty certain things will change again. The current tree system cannot be kept at the next level expansion... We'll just have to see what happens.