Ravage Hyperbole

[Carbonated]

Do people realise that your first hit of ravage and 2nd and 3rd add together as in if they all hit for 2k it shows 6k at the end and the parsers arent picking it up properly?

[Omophorus]

Do people realise that your first hit of ravage and 2nd and 3rd add together as in if they all hit for 2k it shows 6k at the end and the parsers arent picking it up properly?

 

If you look at the raw combat logs, a full Ravage shows up as 6 rows - 3 main hand hits, 3 offhand hits.

 

Just poking through a couple combat logs I have here...

 

On another fully BM-geared Sentinel: 1064+257 (hit 1), 1943+0 (hit 2, main hand crit, offhand parried), 1726+1049 (hit 3, offhand crit). That's 6039 damage over the duration, without critting the closer with main hand.

 

On some other fights, against a variety of targets, 850-1k damage is normal for each of the first two main hand hits, 170-250 for offhand hits, lowered of course if the target has a defensive CD up or heavy armor. 1750-2k fairly normal for 3rd main hand it, 480-600ish offhand.

 

I had one particular one on a fresh-50 Sage that was exactly what people are complaining about: 1911+0 (crit main, parry off), 2044+256 (crit main), 1944+1088 (crit off) for a total of 7243 out of what was probably 12k HP.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Omophorus

[Zepidel]

Because they can both kill you WAY faster than a Marauder can once they're in range, and they also have unbreakable CC that can be used while attacking. They also have perma stealth capabilities and can move unseen until they're ready to strike, while Maras only have a 4 second stealth that can easily be broken.

 

Maras have survivability because they have to be in broad daylight at all times, and at best, their burst damage is still nowhere near that of a good Scoundrel, who WILL kill you unless your CC breaker is ready.

 

Your doing it wrong then, marauder damage is easily on par with scoundrel and their sustained surpasses them. Scoundrels don't have any unbreakable CC, they have the standard 4s stun and a 1.5s stun on the opener, both of which are very much breakable.

[Carbonated]

If you look at the raw combat logs, a full Ravage shows up as 6 rows - 3 main hand hits, 3 offhand hits.

 

 

I run act. I cant seem to get act to actually open tonight to look and confirm etc but what I recall seeing was odd and probably needs to be sorted. Most of my damage values were around 2k with one being 5.3k I'll have alook when I can get it running.

[Blloodbane]

Your doing it wrong then, marauder damage is easily on par with scoundrel and their sustained surpasses them. Scoundrels don't have any unbreakable CC, they have the standard 4s stun and a 1.5s stun on the opener, both of which are very much breakable.

 

But the can invis, and heal and do everything from range and create their on cover...

 

Mara's dont have an unbreakable CC as well you know. In fact, beyond lions roar and force choke, thats about how extensive our stun is, and personally I use them more as a interupt than a stun, unless its to prevent something at the door in void star or stop a group from activating a turrett.

[Zepidel]

But the can invis,

So can marauders

 

and heal .

So can annihilation marauders, and for about the same amount assuming both classes focus on dps.

 

and do everything from range

not true

 

and create their on cover...

also not true

 

You seem to be combining the heal scoundrel, dps scoundrel, and sniper into one class and spec.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zepidel

[Dacer]

[17:43:30.237] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [Event {836045448945472}: AbilityActivate {836045448945479}] ()
[17:43:30.237] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Unshakable {1261367470326274}] ()
[17:43:30.238] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Immobilized {1261367470326270}] ()
[17:43:30.641] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1599 energy {836045448940874} (403 absorbed {836045448945511})) <1599>
[17:43:30.641] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (604* energy {836045448940874}) <604>
[17:43:31.037] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (1669 energy {836045448940874}) <1669>
[17:43:31.038] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (0 -parry {836045448945503}) <1>
[17:43:31.313] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Gore {1261122657189888}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (450* energy {836045448940874} (450 absorbed {836045448945511})) <450>
[17:43:32.442] [@Etang] [@Etang] [] [Restore {836045448945476}: rage point {836045448938497}] (1)
[17:43:32.443] [@Etang] [@Etang] [blood Frenzy {1261114067255296}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Blood Frenzy {1261114067255296}] ()
[17:43:33.171] [@Etang] [@Etang] [Massacre {1259670958243840}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Massacre {1259670958243840}] ()
[17:43:33.355] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [ApplyEffect {836045448945477}: Damage {836045448945501}] (5645* energy {836045448940874}) <5645>
[17:43:33.360] [@Etang] [@Istian] [Ravage {1261367470325760}] [RemoveEffect {836045448945478}: Immobilized {1261367470326270}] ()

 

Thats a 9k ravage right there, pretty damn OP imo. Last hit for 5.6k is crazy.

 

 

According to that log some got hit by a ravage then Hit gore and ravaged again?

 

Not possible. The log should show gore being hit before the ravage damage. In which case it was a 5k ravage not a 9 k.

 

Sorry, but it just doesn't look right to me.

 

He is a better look.

 

 

 

 

17:43:30.237 Etang activates Ravage.

17:43:30.237 Etang gains Unshakable.

17:43:30.238 Etang's Ravage adds effect Immobilized to Istian.

17:43:30.641 Etang's Ravage hits Istian for 1599 energy damage, causing 1599 threat. (403 absorbed)

17:43:30.641 Etang's Ravage critcally hits Istian for 604* energy damage, causing 604 threat!

17:43:31.037 Etang's Ravage hits Istian for 1669 energy damage, causing 1669 threat.

17:43:31.038 Istian parries Etang's Ravage, causing 1 threat.

17:43:31.313 Etang's Gore critcally hits Istian for 450* energy damage, causing 450 threat! (450 absorbed) - this is totally out of place

17:43:32.442 Etang gains 1 .

17:43:32.443 Etang loses Blood Frenzy.

17:43:33.171 Etang loses Massacre.

17:43:33.355 Etang's Ravage critcally hits Istian for 5645* energy damage, causing 5645 threat!

17:43:33.360 Etang's Ravage effect of Immobilized fades from Istian.

 

Edited April 16, 2012 by Dacer

[Xaearth]

I'm hoping for once game metrics are actually used in class balance instead of the "people are ragequitting" metrics.

 

Devs will be like "Marauders/Sentinels are fine according to our metrics. It isn't our fault that our metrics assume a decent defense rating and you people keep removing it from your gear."

[Blloodbane]

So can marauders

 

 

So can annihilation marauders, and for about the same amount assuming both classes focus on dps.

 

 

not true

 

 

also not true

 

You seem to be combining the heal scoundrel, dps scoundrel, and sniper into one class and spec.

 

Oh I get it you are comparing the 31/31/31 Spec Mara... BTW our invis is a whopping for secs...

 

Oh excuse me, you get to do a nut kick stun if a melee comes up on you, silly me for forgetting that is not ranged...

 

You do know there is a difference between ravage for anhilation as opposed to a Carnage Mara? Which is the complaint people have... ravage... Let me clarify Carnage Mara's do NOT have healing unless they spec a skill for unleash, you can get 10% of your health back ever 2 minutes, but thats under the rage tree....

 

Im not confusing anything... both get "cover" which is 20% before you even spec in to your AC... so YES you do...

Edited April 16, 2012 by Blloodbane

[Zepidel]

Oh I get it you are comparing the 31/31/31 Spec Mara... BTW our invis is a whopping for secs...

 

You do know there is a difference between ravage for anhilation as opposed to a Carnage Mara? Which is the complaint people have... ravage... Let me clarify Carnage Mara's do NOT have healing unless they spec a skill for unleash, you can get 10% of your health back ever 2 minutes, but thats under the rage tree....

 

No actually I'm comparing annihilation marauders, regardless even without carnage ravage can still hit for 7-9k. Scrappers don't have viable heals either, they have pugnacity which heals for as much as a annih marauders dots.

And its not so much their damage being top tier I have a problem with, its their damage being as high as it is along with the survivability, mobility, and utility they have. All three of which far exceeds all other dps classes.

 

Oh excuse me, you get to do a nut kick stun if a melee comes up on you, silly me for forgetting that is not ranged...

???... Yes our stun is melee, so are all our scoundrel abilities. The only thing that's not in melee range is sab charge, vital shot, and our default free attack. Are you sure your not thinking of snipers? or do you really have no idea what your talking about.

 

Im not confusing anything... both get "cover" which is 20% before you even spec in to your AC... so YES you do...

 

You get cover before you spec into your AC however it doesn't do anything other then let you use charged burst and sab charge. In order to get the 20% ranged defense and interrupt immunity you have to go sniper/GS to get the passive ability Hold Position.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Zepidel

[Blloodbane]

No actually I'm comparing annihilation marauders, regardless even without carnage ravage can still hit for 7-9k. Scrappers don't have viable heals either, they have pugnacity which heals for as much as a annih marauders dots.

And its not so much their damage being top tier I have a problem with, its their damage being as high as it is along with the survivability, mobility, and utility they have. All three of which far exceeds all other dps classes.

 

 

???... Yes our stun is melee, so are all our scoundrel abilities. The only thing that's not in melee range is sab charge, vital shot, and our default free attack. Are you sure your not thinking of snipers? or do you really have no idea what your talking about.

 

 

 

You get cover before you spec into your AC however it doesn't do anything other then let you use charged burst and sab charge. In order to get the 20% ranged defense and interrupt immunity you have to go sniper/GS to get the passive ability Hold Position.

 

Look all I am saying you cant cherry pick a class without knoing them fully... AFAIK most Anhilation Mara's dont spec up or use ravage because their tree does behave differently. Ravage by Carnage Mara's are the biggest grip. People feel this because most Carnage Mara's have gore, which gives 100% Armor Penetration for 6 seconds couple that with Ravage, it hurts but they dad gum sure cant spam that combo either.

 

I might be confusing Gunslingers with Scoundrels, I freely admit that, but Scoundrels are the exception and not the rule on my server. A Fast Majority play Ops or Gunslingers in the WZ. Snipers rock some amazing damage especially in hutball, I met few scoundrels.

 

Carnage does more burst DPS than Anhilation but Anhilation has more survivability, other than the big AOE smash I havent heard much about how Rage Mara's play.

[Zepidel]

Look all I am saying you cant cherry pick a class without knoing them fully... AFAIK most Anhilation Mara's dont spec up or use ravage because their tree does behave differently. Ravage by Carnage Mara's are the biggest grip. People feel this because most Carnage Mara's have gore, which gives 100% Armor Penetration for 6 seconds couple that with Ravage, it hurts but they dad gum sure cant spam that combo either.

 

They most certainly do use ravage, even without gore its more then worth it. But ravage isn't the point, its the overall dmg both sustained and burst combined with their survivability, mobility, and utility.

 

I might be confusing Gunslingers with Scoundrels, I freely admit that, but Scoundrels are the exception and not the rule on my server. A Fast Majority play Ops or Gunslingers in the WZ. Snipers rock some amazing damage especially in hutball, I met few scoundrels.

 

Gunslingers=Sniper Scoundrel=Operative

Scoundrels are the exception because the majority play ops? their the same class, ones republic ones imperial.

 

GS/sniper and Scoundrel/op are two very different classes.

[Omophorus]

Look all I am saying you cant cherry pick a class without knoing them fully... AFAIK most Anhilation Mara's dont spec up or use ravage because their tree does behave differently. Ravage by Carnage Mara's are the biggest grip. People feel this because most Carnage Mara's have gore, which gives 100% Armor Penetration for 6 seconds couple that with Ravage, it hurts but they dad gum sure cant spam that combo either.

 

So I posted earlier in this thread with examples of Ravage damage in PVP.

 

Worth noting... I'm Annihilation spec.

 

Ravage is crazy burst regardless of spec, and I can't imagine why any Marauder, regardless of spec, wouldn't have 2 points in Short Fuse and 2 points in Ravager.

[Vid-szhite]

Ravage's last hit having additional range is pretty silly.

 

That wasn't changed since release. All the hits of ravage have always been able to land as long as your target remains within 10m of you, but you have to be within 4m to start casting it. If it wasn't this way, it would be impossible to land all 3 attacks because immediate melee range is so short that if you take 3 steps back, you're out of it.

 

So why did people complain about Ravage being useless in PvP? They hate having to stand still when casting a melee ability, and besides that, it wasn't as powerful as most of our other attacks. Now that it IS as powerful as our other attacks, if not stronger, and it can no longer be interrupted by hard interrupts, people are actually using Ravage, and are discovering several things about it that they never knew before.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Vid-szhite]

Your doing it wrong then, marauder damage is easily on par with scoundrel and their sustained surpasses them. Scoundrels don't have any unbreakable CC, they have the standard 4s stun and a 1.5s stun on the opener, both of which are very much breakable.

 

I mean CC that breaks on damage. Marauders don't have any stuns that last through damage except Choke, which requires them to stop attacking and channel it, so the Marauder can't use it for himself except as an interrupt.

 

You're the one doing it wrong if you are still buying into the kool aid theorycrafting that says Operatives have bad sustained DPS (it was proven false - Concealment Operatives have been shown to pull even numbers with Marauders in sustained DPS, and because they are so bursty, momentary lapses where you aren't able to DPS don't hurt nearly as much). I have never seen a Marauder capable of killing me before their relic and adrenal wears off, but even after all the nerfs, good Scoundrels and Operatives still can. A marauder or sentinel is nothing but annoying to me, but a Scoundrel is dangerous.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Carbonated]

I run act. I cant seem to get act to actually open tonight to look and confirm etc but what I recall seeing was odd and probably needs to be sorted. Most of my damage values were around 2k with one being 5.3k I'll have alook when I can get it running.

 

basically looked up the values and 7.5k is roughly correct when something in it crits. One random damaged on the 3rd attack for 5.3k which seems really random and possibly overdosing on 15% increase from bloodthirst.