DFA, an AOE without "Area of Effect"

[mamosh]

i think the 5 meter is silly to specialy since snipers orbital is 8 meter and on same cd cab be cast around a pillar and they can cast it and run loss giggle at the dmg it does

even pveing its useless now because it knocks the mobs out or you can just reach one mob with it GG single target aoe attack

Edited April 29, 2012 by mamosh

[Lavastar]

Re: PVP PT using DFA

 

While the effective radius has gone down from 8m to 5m (37.5%), players don't stand in a single line emerging from the center of a circle. What really matters here is the area of effect....that being the area of the circle.

 

Reduction has gone from 100% (8m radius) 200.96m2 to 39% (5m radius) 78.5m2

 

The area of effect has been reduced by 61%. This is what should be looked at...as people even trying to escape frantically will run into walls or sometimes have to run through the area of effect to get to safety.

 

61% reduction.

 

I'm not happy about it.

[kitsinni]

I have been in matches where there is a group of enemies all with around 5% health, I will do DFA on them and watch their health not even move. It is pretty much only good for stopping bomb planting from ranged when you can't actually get to the people before they would plant it, it is not even really a damage attack anymore.

[Githanis]

Re: PVP PT using DFA

 

While the effective radius has gone down from 8m to 5m (37.5%), players don't stand in a single line emerging from the center of a circle. What really matters here is the area of effect....that being the area of the circle.

 

Reduction has gone from 100% (8m radius) 200.96m2 to 39% (5m radius) 78.5m2

 

The area of effect has been reduced by 61%. This is what should be looked at...as people even trying to escape frantically will run into walls or sometimes have to run through the area of effect to get to safety.

 

61% reduction.

 

I'm not happy about it.

 

Lavastar nailed it.

 

DFA is a complete joke post 1.2! Especially when compared to other class's AOE.

[funkiestj]

Avoiding hyperbole I can safely say as a powertech I just do not see any kind of good use for it anymore. If I am lucky it will hit two enemies, if I am bad with placement I can entirely miss all of them with it. The nerf in the radius essentially eliminates what I used it for: to secure solid initial threat on all enemies in a fight. The damage was never its selling point for me, and as a tank I'm not expecting massive damage, I just wish I could use it as a tool for starting certain group fights and as it stands now I really can't.

 

How about BW adding a skill in the tanking trees to increase the AoE?

 

Or how about a tank specific insta-cast, no GCD, ability that increases radius, decreases damage and also puts a taunt on all inside the radius? The taunt may be a bit much but you get the idea ... add a death from above modifier skill/ability that give back some of the tanking effect at the expense of damage.

[TheOpf]

yeah its all good if your a force user, but if you want even equal treatmetn for talents as a bh you screwed, degauss doesnt work waste of talent points. hydraulic ovverides , doesnt work still get cc'ed while its up. my favortie is chain stunning with a full resolve bar. for a .5 sec break and then stunned again.... pretty funny when i see maruaders free to run around at 25% resolve... *********** joke bio-ware

 

If you don't know how to use Hydraulic Overrides please stop posting. HO is designed as a root knockback preventer not a total immunity button. Go play a Marauder if you want an overpowered ability. You can't chain stunn with a full resolve bar. It's like listening to someone who never made it to 50 talk about expertise.

 

None of the AoE's are gamebreaking. I use DFA all the time in pvp, and it's just as useful now as it was then. It's worse in pve because of the way it's setup, but in pvp there is no change. If you used it as a crutch in pvp than you were bad pre-1.2 and you are bad post 1.2. It's usefulness is significantly less only in solo questing. In FPs, and Ops, where a tank gathers everything for an aoe blast it does the same as before.

 

Quite over-exaggerating.

[Guruban]

While i am only about to leave Nar Shaddaa today, i can say that i dont really notice a difference in Pre 1.2 DFA and post 1.2 DFA. Well, aside from reading about what they changed in the patch notes, it doesnt really feel any different.

 

I still one shot a pack of 5 mobs with it, and i have no issues with its AoE and range.

But thats just my opinion.

[NoTomorrow]

As much as i hate and disconsider mercs (especially the arsenal ones), i can only pity you with this nerf. I never had trouble interrupting you from it when i needed to, it was quite balanced. It looks like heavy AoE is IA Engineering Snipers domain now. Edited May 2, 2012 by NoTomorrow

[Amien]

A 10m Diameter is bigger than you think, you're just crying because it's not the 20m overpowered diameter that it used to be (and never was intended to be, either).

 

 

You discredited yourself right there so I stopped reading. Before it was 8m, but the reticule was only 5m, just like every other class' AoE indicator. Sorcerer and Agent AoE's both have 8m as well. Now it is 5 meters, while melee is 4 meters! Someone posted a great comment on here about how that gives melee an 8m Diameter for their attacks/AoE (Note I do not play a melee class, this is just what someone else said). We should have our 8m DFA back.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Amien

[Noollig]

The reason everyone is noticing is because of the AREA reduction that Lavastar mentioned a few posts earlier.

 

DFA now hits less than 40% of the area it used to. When you are only hitting 2 out of the 5 people you dropped the reticule on, it's a huge nerf to damage.

 

If the area covered by DFA was too much, nerf appropriately. Losing 60%+ of the area of an AoE attack is terrible.

 

The area could be 6.5m and it would be a ~30% nerf, that seems like plenty since it's easy enough to run out of anyway. A 6m radius would at least DFA keep half of it's original area and damage capability. A 60% nerf right off the bat is just too much at once.

 

I don't know how this nerf made it to live.

[TheOpf]

The reason everyone is noticing is because of the AREA reduction that Lavastar mentioned a few posts earlier.

 

DFA now hits less than 40% of the area it used to. When you are only hitting 2 out of the 5 people you dropped the reticule on, it's a huge nerf to damage.

 

If the area covered by DFA was too much, nerf appropriately. Losing 60%+ of the area of an AoE attack is terrible.

 

The area could be 6.5m and it would be a ~30% nerf, that seems like plenty since it's easy enough to run out of anyway. A 6m radius would at least DFA keep half of it's original area and damage capability. A 60% nerf right off the bat is just too much at once.

 

I don't know how this nerf made it to live.

 

Because it's not a nerf, it was a fix on an ability that was hitting a wider range than what was listed on the tooltip. The better question would be how did DFA go live with a reticule 40 percent larger than intended.

[Noollig]

Because it's not a nerf, it was a fix on an ability that was hitting a wider range than what was listed on the tooltip. The better question would be how did DFA go live with a reticule 40 percent larger than intended.

 

Not 40%, it's over 250%.

 

A circle with an 8m radius has ~255% more area than a circle with a 5m radius. That's right, an 8m radius circle covers more area than 2.5 circles with a 5m radius.

 

So if the original ability was supposed to be 5m, it leaves BH with a 60% smaller coverage area.

 

I wish it had been this way from the start so I could already be used to not using it. The level 1 missile attack is more useful for guarding doors and turrets.

 

From what I read in the patch notes, it didn't say anything about it hitting a wider area than it was supposed to. It simply stated that it was reduced to bring it more in line with other AoE abilities. I guess they meant smash... with less damage.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Noollig

[RoenHawk]

Comparing my lv50 Sorcerer to my Lv50 Merc which both has full Battle Master Gear is no contest after the 1.2 patch nerf. Before the nerf my Merc would do more damage than my sorcerer when speced for DPS but now he does a lot less. Before my Merc could out heal my Sorcerer when in healing spec but that is no longer the case. It is absolutely ridicules that Death From above is a 5 meter spell. You might as well call it a melee spell that only hits its target once. My sorcerer can light a group up with Call lighting which is 10m. Why did the developers forget to nerf that one as well? The Death from Above spell is pretty much useless considering the ease with which it can be avoided you have to be an idot to not move the two steps in any direction when someone is casting it on you. It is a good thing that the developers don’t have a clue about making changes to the important things in PvP like the resolve bar system but have to nerf things that work rather well. I have come to the conclusion that the reason that the developers keep screwing with classes like this is that it is their way of trying to keep end gamers playing the game by having them create a new class that is not as screwed up as the one they just made. At this rate I am pretty much done with this game. No point in working on any character development when each patch that comes out they decided to screw up the current character that you enjoy playing. your time would be better spent leveling one of each class that way you will always have 1 or 2 that dominate and you can put the others on the shelf until they get renerfed back to playability..

[ShawnFish]

Man from what I've been reading here, I'm glad that I only created my BH a couple days ago. I personally love DFA, it works great, but i don't have anything to compare it too as far as how it was before.

 

I'm destroying mobs with it - - - -

 

It sucks it was nerfed, but the post above said it very well. The devs will keep changing things to make the game change, be more interesting, and yes to keep people playing = = = = = or so they think.

 

But ill keep playing, i absolutely love this game

[Lavastar]

This was a nerf by all definitions of the word that do not relate to the trademark toys.

 

Denying that it is a nerf only makes the poster look emotional.

 

Definitions of NERF for for the emotional responder promoting his virtual manual;

1. In video gaming a nerf is a change to a game that reduces the desirability or effectiveness of a particular game element.

2. Term that means to be rendered ineffective or less effective by a change in the rules or game system.

 

The area of effect on an area of effect skill has been reduced by 61%

 

If it were to return back to scale to other class area of effects, the area would now have to be put back to AREA 200.95m(2) from it's current AREA 78.5m(2). As Noolig stated, this means that they would have to now multiply the resulting erroneous area by 256% to return it to where it was! It's simple math. SIMPLE

 

The tooltip comment is just spin. These are the real numbers.

 

As an earlier poster stated, you now have to pin point shot our supposed AoE DFA just to rattle someone planting a door bomb.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Lavastar

[Tyrias]

Personally, I think the new DFA is better balanced than it was before. When I compare it to Force Storm, I think it's a perfectly fair compromise to be doing more damage per target, more quickly, with the drawback that it has a smaller area.

 

Seems fine to me.

[Lavastar]

Personally, I think the new DFA is better balanced than it was before. When I compare it to Force Storm, I think it's a perfectly fair compromise to be doing more damage per target, more quickly, with the drawback that it has a smaller area.

 

Seems fine to me.

 

Hey Tyrias.

 

It would seem okay...the damage reduction is only about 20% DPS (Again I can post math here if it's needed), considering the AoE reduction size and the time for the skill to launch completely. However, if we're protecting a door or turret or gun(new WZ), it is way more effective to have the damage spread out over a longer period of time to give teammates that extra second or two to get to the objective while they're being called for help.

 

DFA, unlike forcestorm, also has a minimal range of use...so we pretty much have to back out of the area or run and turn around if we're right next to a group to begin using it.

 

With forcestorm...there's no minimal range and on top of that as a sorcerer I can be standing right in the middle of it while the AoE is happening.

 

So, I can understand where you're coming from but looking beyond DPS, it's a skill that had it's most valuable asset nerfed and that asset is the area of effect.

[Jaxarale]

I still one shot a pack of 5 mobs with it, and i have no issues with its AoE and range.

 

No I do not think you did... 5 mobs are way way way too spread out to even come close to hitting 3 of them much less all 5... You could of ran through them and around a building or other wall to get them grouped up... but when you do that the minimum range of it does not allow you to use it...

 

Stop posting falsehoods... we all know that the mob bunches of 3's are too loose for DFA in its new state trying to go up to pretend you did 5 is hilarious at best and demeaning at worst... nice try tho.

 

Because it's not a nerf

 

I will let others debate if its a nerf or just a fix on the area... what I do KNOW for a fact.. is this:

They changed the type damage it does from elemental (ignores armor) to kinetic (armor mitigates) so for no other reason but this... its a nerf...

 

Some would call it a stealth nerf seeing as BW did not announce it was doing this nor did have they acknowledged that they did this even though it has been asked several times... of course if we do get an answer they will say it was doing kinetic all along.. and since we had no combat logs... we can not prove they are lying.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Jaxarale

[Noollig]

It's a nerf, plain and simple, and a large one at that. It wasn't a skill used for DPS for the most part. It was a skill used to cover doors and turrets, force people to move away from a certain area/player, and put out large amounts of aggro.

 

The decreased cast time and the increased number of damage ticks is nicer in my opinion, but the massive reduction in area covered makes the skill exponentially less viable. If two players are capping a turret/door on opposite sides at about the max distance you can stand to cap, well.... DFA won't hit both of them. I can flame sweep on a door and crit for 1500 on 3 players, while DFA is lucky to do that much since it's such a short run to exit the area.

 

To make the change to area acceptable increase the amount of damage DFA does by a good amount. A 60% reduction in area would allow a 50% increase to damage, and it would still be a nerf.

 

Another option is to add a snare/root to anyone in the targeted area. The knockback throws mobs out of it's area, bad mechanic, a root (knockdown in place) or a hefty snare would keep them in the reticule so they would continue to take damage. It would cause players to run out of the area to avoid getting snared.

 

As it stands Flame Thrower is a more attractive alternative to DFA, especially if you are deep enough into AP to get PFA.

[Ricktur]

im still getting top dmg for both teams in wz's pre 50 - added two screenshots tonight with me being number 1 dmg in pre 50 wz.

 

so DFA must not be that much of a nerf because im still achieving top numbers.

 

i think you guys are upset that the bh requires some skill now.

 

yeah i guess if i were a free loader fotm player id be upset about that too

[Jaxarale]

im still getting top dmg for both teams in wz's pre 50 - added two screenshots tonight with me being number 1 dmg in pre 50 wz.

 

Grats on being left alone by the other team to dps the whole time... I've noticed I am practically ignored in WZ's now as I have no burst, I am not perceived as a threat by many and am last on the priority list... they actually sit there and heal through the damage...

 

so DFA must not be that much of a nerf because im still achieving top numbers.

 

Any class that never gets pressure and can sit and turret will achieve top numbers...

 

i think you guys are upset that the bh requires some skill now.

 

It takes skill to spam TM till Unload procs? wow... yes BH is so hard now... not sure what the "now" is about... its the same priority it was but with a few more unload procs... actually since HSM is so suck and the debuff so buggy... its really not worth it to even use it so actually the "new and improved" arsenal priority is even easier... 3 shots instead of 4...

 

yeah i guess if i were a free loader fotm player id be upset about that too

 

lulz...

 

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal....

[Ricktur]

Grats on being left alone by the other team to dps the whole time... I've noticed I am practically ignored in WZ's now as I have no burst, I am not perceived as a threat by many and am last on the priority list... they actually sit there and heal through the damage...

 

 

 

Any class that never gets pressure and can sit and turret will achieve top numbers...

 

 

 

It takes skill to spam TM till Unload procs? wow... yes BH is so hard now... not sure what the "now" is about... its the same priority it was but with a few more unload procs... actually since HSM is so suck and the debuff so buggy... its really not worth it to even use it so actually the "new and improved" arsenal priority is even easier... 3 shots instead of 4...

 

 

 

lulz...

 

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal....

 

look at this hater.

 

its w/e man, im not making these numbers up that im getting on a consistent basis. and if im being left alone in a warzone and doing my job as a ranged class then whats the problem again?

 

i mean are you telling me you take your arsenal merc and charge into the thick?

 

seriously people, more complaining will just murder this class, its still manageable, viable and awesome to play so lets just get with the program for once ok?

[Aelflaed]

I've been going over this since the change, telling myself it wasn't that big a problem, but I have to say - it really is. I think the worst part of it, for me, is that *this* is the iconic ability that drew me first to my bounty hunter, & inspired me to make a second. (my first is a healer, this one is dps) Flamethrower is - eh. Sweeping blasters is dull. DFA is amazing - it's fun.

 

Then I look over at my daughter on her sorcerer & think... ARGH!

 

I'm fine with the altered pattern. It's the aoe size that is just failing badly. If they had to nerf it - and looking at other class aoe, I don't understand why - then the cooldown should be removed. (I think the sorcerer's *has* no cd) I'm even ok with having them make it do less damage, & be usable more often, but the tiny size makes it pretty much worthless, and even annoying. (I'm 'missing' targets within the red area, & that should be considered a glitchy spell)

 

I generally just deal with changes, warranted or not, but this one is really bothering me. This is a change that desperately needs further investigation by the developers.

[Hambunctious]

Wow, this makes me glad I haven't played my bh since january. I see no reason to start back now.

[Epiphany-Rising]

You all are so shortsighted it's unbelievable.

 

First off, making changes to an ability that allowed us to unfairly take out mobs in a huge radius for more damage than any other class AOE spell, is called BALANCING.

 

Secondly, if you actually practiced and had some skill, you would realize that DFA is still very viable in many applications, especially with the faster ticks. A 10m Diameter is bigger than you think, you're just crying because it's not the 20m overpowered diameter that it used to be (and never was intended to be, either).

 

Your last comment is really disappointing. The point of "nerfs" is to balance the class according to its respective utility within every aspect of play in the game. If you knew anything about MMO's you would know that this is a continual process that is rarely ever perfected - but adjustments are made to always get better. BW is not going to "nerf" the class into the ground just because they BALANCED an OVERPOWERED ability that you EXPLOITED like the rest of us. Stop crying the sky is falling when you just need to accept that the vendor is out of cookies and you need to move on.

 

DFA is still very viable. Learn how to use it. If you're BH isn't "fun" anymore because they don't have an overpowered ability, then maybe you should roll the Flavor of the Month class every few weeks until they get rebalanced and you complain again. I think that would be Marauders/Sentinels right now.

 

Honestly I don't see how that is a fun way to play games but whatever it's your $15/month.

 

Well, likely your parents, but whatever.

 

I believe that AOE equality should be in place. Right now Sorcs can spam Force Storm for their damage (8 m radius or is it 10) and IA's can use their Orb strike (8 m radius). Make everyone's 5m (and listen to the screams and wails from everyone else then) or put ours to 8m. If it's a damage thing make ours the same as orbital strike (and force storm the same as well) and give Force Storm, Orbital Strike and Death from Above the EXACT same cooldown. Make it knock down not knock back (just as force storm can stun etc.).

 

Let's be fair in our nurfs if you want equality.