I am a MAJOR supporter...

[Lunazen]

Never could get into WoW. LOVED eq2 and swg.

 

I think what swtor is missing is "downtime" within the game. What I love in an MMO:

 

--to just explore. In EQ2, the world was large and open. You never knew what you would find.. something clickable, an npc to talk to, etc. In SWG .. well, without a speeder it would take at least an hour to cross some worlds , and even toward the end I was finding cool little oddities I never seen before. (in swtor, I know there's no point. If I'm "supposed" to be somewhere, a quest will send me. If not, there's nothing to discover)

 

--go out and harvest nodes for hours. SWG's harvest system was very unique, with resources changing every few days and the use of large mining equipment, etc. EQ2.. ahhhh, fields upon fields of nodes, of all different kinds, every type being harvestable by anyone. It was nice to be able to harvest not just for myself, but my alts, friends, guildmates. (every node here is in the exact same spot every time, often covered by a mob. You can only harvest the type you are trained in, and they are few and far between.)

 

--chatting. Just chatting. I can log in and do nothing but chat with friends. (in swtor, if you chat too long without moving, it sets you as afk and tries to log out out! lol Crazy)

 

 

--crafting. Love it. In EQ2 I had a crafter of every flavor. If I didn't feel like grouping or adventuring, I would craft. And chat, of course. (swtor has crafting but.. meh? It's so easy. Boring. Not relevant to the game at all).

 

 

--housing. LOVE it. Both EQ2 and SWG had housing. So much fun, and a great place to store items from your travels and victories. (in swtor--a ship. Can't put anything in it... unless you spend a million credits through Legacy, but even then it's very limited.)

 

So, downtime. A reason to be in the game if I'm not questing/grinding. Without the in-game downtime, there's a hole in the experience. I don't feel like I have a place in the world, if that makes sense. It's got elements of mmo (obviously) and rpg (but only because of the story that is someone else's, not mine). But an "MMORPG" it is not, at least not the way I see and like to experience the genre.

 

Then again (and this concludes my novel), it's similar to other, newer games in that regard. Rift and Warhammer. Fun games, but very much on a path. Very much log in, kill some stuff, work on whatever grind they've laid before you that day/week/month, then log out because there's nothing left to do and no reason for you to be there--and not at max level, but on day 1.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lunazen

[Rogobono]

 

Then again (and this concludes my novel), it's similar to other, newer games in that regard. Rift and Warhammer. Fun games, but very much on a path. Very much log in, kill some stuff, work on whatever grind they've laid before you that day/week/month, then log out because there's nothing left to do and no reason for you to be there--and not at max level, but on day 1.

 

Well said

[Lt_Latency]

Yeah, so they just made questing soloable. How in the world is that more innovative?

 

Might as well say that SW:TOR is innovative because they changed group size from 5 to 4.

 

They did tons.

 

The made it a action game.

They improved combat machaincs.

They made combat more mobile (You don't stand still to cast everything)

They rewarded you for going to new spots in the world.

They made raiding more then tank and spank

They made theme park style populat

This goes for instance and PvP

They made BoP and BoE popular.

They made out of combat regen fast

 

 

They did tons if you think other wise you never played EQ pre WoW.

 

 

WoW took the MMO game play engine and made it very very slick. They improved tons here.

 

Sw:Tor took the enging and add more fluff around it. Story, More voice acting stuff like that.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Samborino]

You guys all know I am a major supporter of this game.

 

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has. That "thing" that DAoC or EQ had. What do you think it could be? I have been trying to think about it for months upon months.

 

For alot...that special little "thing" isn't there. I can't put my finger on it, I really can't! I love this game A LOT. But there is just that....oomph and "HELL YEAH" feeling that is missing. Really..this is driving me insane. What do you think it is? I'm trying to figure it out for some..

 

If your talking about end game, then the feeling your missing is the sense of acheivment. Getting full columi from 2 days of running HM FP's certainly didnt give me any sense of achievment, or getting full rakata shortly thereafter it was all to easy.

Also its the way they handled end game itemization that really doesnt give it that oomph, having only 1 set per tier (like they do for pvp in this game and others) for PVE content is lazy and boring. Sure the new orange items are cool, but with this new system it basically only puts an emphasis on modifications so your really not raiding or doing FP"s for actual gear in the end game, your not doing it for gear that will change your appearance and make you look cooler, your not doing it for gear with better/ different stats, your not having to decide whether replacing a BIS non set piece with your tier gear is worth it.

 

I think it was a big mistake to have this game focus on solely modifications for end game gear. I like the idea of the orange gear system, but in reality it just gives BW an excuse to be lazy and rehash loot in different parts of their game, such as : HM FP's drop the same loot as Normal mode ops and some of the same gear as hard moode ops, then you have commendation vendors which also give you that same loot. I mean hell they couldnt even add new loot for the 1 new flashpoint they put into the game , it just gives you columi and rakata, its the same with story mode of the new operation, it drops rakata as well (i havent done it yet but thats what ive been told). If they insist on duplicating loot throughout so many different aspects of the game, and placing all the importance on mods, at least either A. Have operations / flashpoints drop Rare mods that you cant get anywhere else (maybe they could change your appearance slightly?) or B. Have the gear that drops have a chance to have a rare mod that you cant get anywhere else in it or maybe a rare armoring with a different set bonus then the current ones and you would have to collect these armorings for different pieces of your gear to get the full set bonus.

 

Honestly considering end game progression is solely based on gear in this game, they need something to make it unique, having orange crit crafted gear is great but its something that goes alongside progression not something that improves progression. The progression in this game is just kind of dull, and that is the oomph that is missing IMO

[TheLightningLord]

To be honest... I've tried to care about this game. I've tried to care about my character, and the world, and the story. But I just... don't.

 

Stories feel like movies that are broken up here and there by game play. What I mean is this: the story is SET. You literally have NO impact on the story whatsoever. You're not playing YOUR story, you are playing BIOWARE'S story. The dialogue options are absolutely meaningless and change nothing. Dark / Light Side is meaningless except for appearance.

 

The worlds are lifeless and static. Hell, they can hardly even be called "worlds". They're more like corridors painted to look like scenery and filled with enemies that are standing around, waiting to be killed. At least in other MMO's the mobs roamed around.

 

Combat is boring. It's the same as WoW's except WoW is much more fluid. Most abilities lack "flare". All of a Sorc's attacks are purple lightning. All attacks with lightsabers look generally the same, etc.

 

I could go on and on and on.. but these points have been stated before. I really, really wanted to like this game. In the end, I can't even force myself to log on anymore and I have a month of play time left.

[Rogobono]

To be honest... I've tried to care about this game. I've tried to care about my character, and the world, and the story. But I just... don't.

 

Stories feel like movies that are broken up here and there by game play. What I mean is this: the story is SET. You literally have NO impact on the story whatsoever. You're not playing YOUR story, you are playing BIOWARE'S story. The dialogue options are absolutely meaningless and change nothing. Dark / Light Side is meaningless except for appearance.

 

The worlds are lifeless and static. Hell, they can hardly even be called "worlds". They're more like corridors painted to look like scenery and filled with enemies that are standing around, waiting to be killed. At least in other MMO's the mobs roamed around.

 

Combat is boring. It's the same as WoW's except WoW is much more fluid. Most abilities lack "flare". All of a Sorc's attacks are purple lightning. All attacks with lightsabers look generally the same, etc.

 

I could go on and on and on.. but these points have been stated before. I really, really wanted to like this game. In the end, I can't even force myself to log on anymore and I have a month of play time left.

 

Here here! My thoughts through your words. Thank you

[Samborino]

To be honest... I've tried to care about this game. I've tried to care about my character, and the world, and the story. But I just... don't.

 

Stories feel like movies that are broken up here and there by game play. What I mean is this: the story is SET. You literally have NO impact on the story whatsoever. You're not playing YOUR story, you are playing BIOWARE'S story. The dialogue options are absolutely meaningless and change nothing. Dark / Light Side is meaningless except for appearance.

 

The worlds are lifeless and static. Hell, they can hardly even be called "worlds". They're more like corridors painted to look like scenery and filled with enemies that are standing around, waiting to be killed. At least in other MMO's the mobs roamed around.

 

Combat is boring. It's the same as WoW's except WoW is much more fluid. Most abilities lack "flare". All of a Sorc's attacks are purple lightning. All attacks with lightsabers look generally the same, etc.

 

I could go on and on and on.. but these points have been stated before. I really, really wanted to like this game. In the end, I can't even force myself to log on anymore and I have a month of play time left.

 

Your playing biowares story I agree, but you do have an impact based on the decisions bioware has laid out for you. Their are certain moments this is very prevalent. Such as on my sith inquisitor near the end of alderaan when i decided not to do one of my class quests and reject the lady, I was hearing about that for 2-3 quests down the road and it certainly had an impact on my story, i would have seen a completely different chain of events had a chosent to help her.

 

Same with my smuggler, i chose to save someone instead of send him away or kill him and he ended up playing a very important role in my story, all the way to the end. There are lots of decisions that are far less obvious then the ones i mentioned that have an impact and different variations produce different results. Many guildies have leveled 2 of the same class but different AC's to 50 going light on one and dark on the other or choosing different lightside/ darkside decisions or going neutral and said that the story was quite a bit different, so you do have an impact its just based on the decisions that bioware has laid out for you (i dont know how else it would work tbh though, you cant have everything voice acted and have a million different varieties of a story, it just wouldnt work)

[StrykerOne]

Well, what this game lacks that DAoC had (and still does to an extent) is simple: large scale open world PvP. We don't have armies of literally hundreds of players fighting massive battles over world objectives, and that's a real shame since those all day epic battles are far more fun than group vs group PvP.

 

That said, TOR is a very fun game. It's just also a very new game, with the lack of polish and content that all new MMOs tend to have. WoW has had years to add multiple leveling paths and huge numbers of optional quests, where TOR has only had two content updates so far. TOR already has me at least as excited as WoW ever did though... give them time to sort out the balance kinks and add some more content and it'll be a lot more fun than most other MMOs I've tried. (Except City of Heroes, but hey... you can fly around fighting ten guys at a time there while dressed as a neon green cyberpunk clown. NOTHING compares to CoH... )

[ConradLionhart]

They did tons.

 

The made it a action game.

They improved combat machaincs.

They made combat more mobile (You don't stand still to cast everything)

They rewarded you for going to new spots in the world.

They made raiding more then tank and spank

They made theme park style populat

This goes for instance and PvP

They made BoP and BoE popular.

They made out of combat regen fast

 

 

They did tons if you think other wise you never played EQ pre WoW.

 

 

WoW took the MMO game play engine and made it very very slick. They improved tons here.

 

Sw:Tor took the enging and add more fluff around it. Story, More voice acting stuff like that.

 

So they didn't innovate anything. WoW was just an Everquest clone that enhanced existing stuff. They didn't add anything new to the genre.

[Lt_Latency]

So they didn't innovate anything. WoW was just an Everquest clone that enhanced existing stuff. They didn't add anything new to the genre.

 

You right WoW did nothing!!!

 

It's just took the genre for 500k tops to 12 million. It out lasted all it's completion for 7 years and will out last this game as well.

 

They did nothing though, They just made solo questing and any game should be able to take it down NP. I mean they didn't actual do anything.

 

You people are funny.

 

 

I just gave you a list of changes of the top of my head.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Pubsam]

Honestly, I think the only thing WoW in its current iteration has over ToR is the engine. Combat feels so clean in WoW, and that lack of fluidity has always bothered me as I've tried other MMOs.

 

People saying exploration... where is the exploring in WoW these days? With flying mounts the world barely exists anymore. You just point yourself in a direction and hit autorun... that is if you're not taking a portal directly where you need to go. I mean the world is literally more open, but the ToR worlds have more nooks and crannies that are way harder to get to and hide more interesting things than anything in WoW.

 

Being forced to level on a certain planet (not that WoW ever offered more than 2 choices in that regard) can be lame, but it's necessary to facilitate the class stories so I accept it. HOWEVER, I am thankful that the non-class stories on these planets are completely different between Empire and Republic. WoW might've had some slightly different quest text that no one ever read, but most all the quests in a zone took you to the same places to do the same things regardless of faction. Sadly ToR encourages you to level alts of alternating factions to keep it interesting.

 

But the OP's point is funny because I feel that the way the story makes me invested in my character is that 'it' thing for me... MMOs like Rift and WAR felt like pale WoW clones. ToR is a WoW clone mostly but the radically new approach to story is my 'it' thing I guess.

[SuberBaird]

One thing I would like to see in this game is separate little factions. Something like WoW had with the different cities, Argent Crusade, Booty Bay, the defilers, ect.

 

I think it would be cool to gain reputation with the Blacksun or the Hut cartel. This would open up a lot of end game. You could do achievements, mounts, titles, or other special perks. This would also liven up the game. It would give purpose to go back to these planets and it would feel like these planets had purpose.

[Droozy]

Dual spec

[ConradLionhart]

You right WoW did nothing!!!

 

It's just took the genre for 500k tops to 12 million. It out lasted all it's completion for 7 years and will out last this game as well.

 

They did nothing though, They just made solo questing and any game should be able to take it down NP. I mean they didn't actual do anything.

 

You people are funny.

 

 

I just gave you a list of changes of the top of my head.

 

The list you gave me were not new innovations. They were just enhancements and nothing new. You consider "rewarding people for exploring a spot" an innovation?

 

WoW was not innovative, it just made things simpler, a few tweaks and enhancements here and there. SW:TOR is more innovative in comparison.

[Dalig]

You guys all know I am a major supporter of this game.

 

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has. That "thing" that DAoC or EQ had. What do you think it could be? I have been trying to think about it for months upon months.

 

For alot...that special little "thing" isn't there. I can't put my finger on it, I really can't! I love this game A LOT. But there is just that....oomph and "HELL YEAH" feeling that is missing. Really..this is driving me insane. What do you think it is? I'm trying to figure it out for some..

 

I completely understand this. I truly do enjoy the game when I play but, there is just something missing. My personal belief is that it is the lack of a since of accomplishment. I played very casually while leveling, hitting all areas of the maps, doing the bonus series, ect. I some how ended up at 50. I felt I had to do absolutely nothing to get there. This seems to be the case in many aspects of the game. Hell, you don't even have to craft or gather materials. Have all your little pets do it, when I hit 400 in the skills I can't say that it was more than a passing grin.

 

Unlike other games that you had to actually invest in you seem to be handed everything here. I understand the whole catering to a casual player, I am nothing beyond that myself, but that doesn't mean that something needs to be made so easy that people are able to level 5+ alts to 50 in this time and in the mean time conquer all end game content(I realize I used an extreme but you get the point).

[Lt_Latency]

The list you gave me were not new innovations. They were just enhancements and nothing new. You consider "rewarding people for exploring a spot" an innovation?

 

WoW was not innovative, it just made things simpler, a few tweaks and enhancements here and there. SW:TOR is more innovative in comparison.

 

That is like saying BF3 hasn't change compared to DOOM.

 

You are delusional. If you think adding cut sense and VO did more for the change the genre more then WoW did.

 

 

Why isn't Starwars Sky rocketing??? WoW should be crushed with all this awsome new inovation we got from SW:ToR.

 

Even Biowae Devs has stated they were not doing anything new just adding they story system to a prove MMO fomual.

 

 

Why made ALL THE RIGHT Changes. To vastly improve over EQ and draw in a massive new audenince to the game.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Lheim]

The oomph factor?

 

Maybe it's the fact that the music is so minimal and non-intrusive.

 

Other than that, they could stand to have more npcs just wandering about doing scripted environmental stuff.

 

That's about it, though. The game, for me, has the 'grab' factor .

[Lunazen]

Oh and just thought I'd add, regarding my post on page 3 of this thread, that I do like the game. I am having fun with it. Since this was a what's missing question, I didn't and don't feel the need to add what I do like.

 

But in spite of all that's good about it, the same can be said for other games, some of them with standard MMO features that swtor oddly lacks (or adds them in but with a hefty price, like guild banks). Given that, and the missing elements I personally find essential in an MMO, I have to be honest: if it wasn't Star Wars, I probably would not be as committed to sticking with it as I am.

[ConradLionhart]

That is like saying BF3 hasn't change compared to DOOM.

 

You are delusional. If you think adding cut sense and VO did more for the change the genre more then WoW did.

 

But those are innovations. Legacy system is also a huge innovation. Innovation is something new to the genre. There has never been anything like it done before.

 

Why isn't Starwars Sky rocketing??? WoW should be crushed with all this awsome new inovation we got from SW:ToR.

 

The same reason WoW didn't "crush" Everquest in 4 months. Took them what, a year to finally pick up?

 

Even Biowae Devs has stated they were not doing anything new just adding they story system to a prove MMO fomual.

 

Really? Could you link the part where they said that? My PCGamer magazine showed a quote from one of them saying that they are more innovative in the MMO genre than other MMOs.

 

Point is, you do not need to be innovative to be the best. That's how WoW became the best. They didn't innovate anything. They just enhanced the genre.

 

Them being the biggest MMO doesn't mean they are the most innovative. There's nothing innovative about them. After 5-6 years it's still the same old grind for reputation, grind for gear, grind heroics, grind raids. Same trinity system, tank, healer, dps.

 

They just created a better MMO than Everquest. They're not innovative.

 

So to accuse SW:TOR for not being innovative (they are), when WoW was never that innovative to begin with, is just strange.

[Dyvid]

You guys all know I am a major supporter of this game.

 

But what do you guys think it is that doesn't give swtor that "thing" that wow has. That "thing" that DAoC or EQ had. What do you think it could be? I have been trying to think about it for months upon months.

 

For alot...that special little "thing" isn't there. I can't put my finger on it, I really can't! I love this game A LOT. But there is just that....oomph and "HELL YEAH" feeling that is missing. Really..this is driving me insane. What do you think it is? I'm trying to figure it out for some..

 

You've played too many MMO's and they've lost thier "shiny"?

[ConradLionhart]

The oomph factor?

 

Maybe it's the fact that the music is so minimal and non-intrusive.

 

Other than that, they could stand to have more npcs just wandering about doing scripted environmental stuff.

 

That's about it, though. The game, for me, has the 'grab' factor .

 

I think that is one major thing. The music is not on loop, and it is too soft relative to other sounds.

[Lt_Latency]

But those are innovations. Legacy system is also a huge innovation. Innovation is something new to the genre. There has never been anything like it done before.

 

 

 

The same reason WoW didn't "crush" Everquest in 4 months. Took them what, a year to finally pick up?

 

 

 

Really? Could you link the part where they said that? My PCGamer magazine showed a quote from one of them saying that they are more innovative in the MMO genre than other MMOs.

 

Point is, you do not need to be innovative to be the best. That's how WoW became the best. They didn't innovate anything. They just enhanced the genre.

 

Them being the biggest MMO doesn't mean they are the most innovative. There's nothing innovative about them. After 5-6 years it's still the same old grind for reputation, grind for gear, grind heroics, grind raids. Same trinity system, tank, healer, dps.

 

They just created a better MMO than Everquest. They're not innovative.

 

So to accuse SW:TOR for not being innovative (they are), when WoW was never that innovative to begin with, is just strange.

 

What did SW:ToR do??

 

They add VO instead of Quest text. That the biggest feature of this game. Someone reads you the quest text which wow added to the genere. They reason they can do that is because the market there were after was 12 milion people created by WoW. So they came at it with a bigger bugget.

 

 

this is the reality.

 

WoW made changes and the genre went from 500k to 12 million.

SW:ToR made changes the will never break 3 million,

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lt_Latency

[Ukonius]

It's the utter lack of an open world feel for me.

[Tahana]

What did SW:ToR do??

 

They add VO instead of Quest text. That the biggest feature of this game. Someone reads you the quest text which wow added to the genere. They reason they can do that is because the market there were after was 12 milion people created by WoW. So they came at it with a bigger bugget.

 

 

this is the reality.

 

WoW made changes and the genre went from 500k to 12 million.

SW:ToR made changes the will never break 3 million,

 

You want to know something funny.. In all the years that I played wow.. With the 8 toons that I took to level 80 and the 3 I took to 85... I have very rarely.. can count on both hands the number of times I read the quest text for more than trying to figure out where to kill stuff. WoW I played for the hack and slash nothing more.

[Lt_Latency]

You want to know something funny.. In all the years that I played wow.. With the 8 toons that I took to level 80 and the 3 I took to 85... I have very rarely.. can count on both hands the number of times I read the quest text for more than trying to figure out where to kill stuff. WoW I played for the hack and slash nothing more.

 

Do you REALLY think the story here is that good ??? For all the hype it's pretty bland. I'm mean the voice acting does make it better then reading it. I agree it hard to read them after the voice acting.

 

 

But when WoW was made 12 million players was not the goal. You didn't get a buget of 150 million dollars.

 

I have only done 1 story. But my class story a guy lost and need me to go back a super weapon 5 TIMES in a row. By the fith time i was just shacking me head. Then the next majot plot thing happen 3 times in a row. Maybe some are better. But the one I am doing now. Has had maybe 4 or 5 moments that were above OK.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lt_Latency